Sanctioning russia has cost EU countries €30bn

[Aggrophobic]

Worth it. No doubts there.

[Warning]

Sanctions punish the wrong people. Why should the Russian poor suffer because of the ruling classes crimes? Sanctions do fuck all to the people in charge because they can move the burden elsewhere.

First off that's not entirely true, sanctions have been targeting Putins inner circle specifically for quite some time. Secondly, shrinking the Russian economy shrinks Putins power, thus sanctions that cause this are hitting the right target. Thirdly while ordinary Russian people are certainly adversely affected and not all of them might be behind the Kremlins actions, the Russian government does represent the Russian people as a whole and they are not exempt from responsibility for their government. That said I wish the regular people of Russia no harm at all, in fact I wish them the very best: the end of the corrupt regime that has their country in its grip.

[Skandulous]

And how much has it costed Russia?

not much just a minor setback. Russia is doing just fine and their budget for 2017 was set at the price of a barrel of oil to be at 40$ but it has been steady at 50$ all yr long so they are above expectations. Hell even the Saudi king him self came to visit Russia and sign investment and cooperation deals worth 100's of billions. The King usually has ppl come to him like Trump and the US asking for stuff but not Putin. With the USA's influence in the ME declining and Russia's influence just about everywhere its no wonder all these Countries are coming calling to Putin and Russia,

[Aeula]

And yet they can still afford their WoW subscriptions and make PvPing on an EU server a bit annoying.

[Puri]

not much just a minor setback. Russia is doing just fine and their budget for 2017 was set at the price of a barrel of oil to be at 40$ but it has been steady at 50$ all yr long so they are above expectations. Hell even the Saudi king him self came to visit Russia and sign investment and cooperation deals worth 100's of billions. The King usually has ppl come to him like Trump and the US asking for stuff but not Putin. With the USA's influence in the ME declining and Russia's influence just about everywhere its no wonder all these Countries are coming calling to Putin and Russia,

No idea why you would think that, the russian economy took a heavy hit from the sanctions (https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp) as well as dropping oil prices. Before visiting Moscow the Saudi King was visiting Indonesia and the Ivory Coast, yet I don't expect Yamoussoukro as the next financial center.

[Skandulous]

No idea why you would think that, the russian economy took a heavy hit from the sanctions (https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp) as well as dropping oil prices. Before visiting Moscow the Saudi King was visiting Indonesia and the Ivory Coast, yet I don't expect Yamoussoukro as the next financial center.

The custodians of Islam visit the largest muslim country thats a shocker. I never said Russia didnt take a hit. The Russian economy did take a hit but it hit bottom and is on the way up with not to much damage that cant be fixed.

[Pengekaer]

No way. No peace with Russia. Not now. Not ever.

Depends on the leadership. If the Russians manage to replace their shit-leaders who are you to say there can never be a productive relationship? I never said that it is not looking bleak now...quite the contrary, as a matter of fact.

I am genuinly curious, if you even oppose my statement that it would be preferable to have a Russia we could talk with, then what is your desired fate of Russia and its citizens? Would you see them gone? Impoverished? Divided? As a chinese puppet state? In perpetual decline (seems like current route)?

I might be strange, but I dont consider Russians inherently evil, inferior or doomed to fail. Certainly, there are other, uhm clans, upon this Earth whose ideas of society fit aforementioned adjectives better.

[Skandulous]

No idea why you would think that, the russian economy took a heavy hit from the sanctions (https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp) as well as dropping oil prices. Before visiting Moscow the Saudi King was visiting Indonesia and the Ivory Coast, yet I don't expect Yamoussoukro as the next financial center.

A picture is worth a thousand words

[Warning]

A picture is worth a thousand words

You've gotta be kidding right? Ask Saudi Arabia to choose between the US and Russia and they'll say US before you can finish your sentence.

[Deleted]

30bn euro is nothing really. It's chum change compared to EU total GDP.

Question is who has it cost the most ?

[Puri]

The custodians of Islam visit the largest muslim country thats a shocker. I never said Russia didnt take a hit. The Russian economy did take a hit but it hit bottom and is on the way up with not to much damage that cant be fixed.

Yeah that's the point. They took a greater hit than the countries issueing the sanctions, and if you would have read the OP's paper you would see that also the EU is recovering from it.

[Deleted]

Thoughts? I'd call it a worthwhile loss, we don't need to play nice with foreign powers that try and subvert our power. We can lose out on trade, if it means that we aren't propping up a future powerhouse.

[Deleted]

How exactly is Russia hostile towards EU?

Did you forget about the plane that was shot down? Roughly 300 people were killed. Thanks Russia! This is totally not hostile behaviour.

[Deleted]

Thing about those 30bn is its Eastern European countries that are losing money, not western. Nobody cares about eastern countries, they exist only as market for western products. This whole thing about sanctions, Ukrainian coup is all about expanding markets for western countries.

So its not a big deal because countries that make those policies aren't the ones losing all that money. For western countries its the opposite - products that used to be delivered from Russia are now replaced by similar more expensive products from western countries. Western Europe makes money money, Eastern Europe loses money.

Before USSR collapse Eastern Europe was getting fucked by Russia, now its getting fucked by Germany. Same shit, different "saviour".

[Verdugo]

Thing about those 30bn is its Eastern European countries that are losing money, not western. Nobody cares about eastern countries, they exist only as market for western products. This whole thing about sanctions, Ukrainian coup is all about expanding markets for western countries.

So its not a big deal because countries that make those policies aren't the ones losing all that money. For western countries its the opposite - products that used to be delivered from Russia are now replaced by similar more expensive products from western countries. Western Europe makes money money, Eastern Europe loses money.

Before USSR collapse Eastern Europe was getting fucked by Russia, now its getting fucked by Germany. Same shit, different "saviour".

I still prefer to be fucked by Germany, at least they dont wrap their dick in barbed wire.

Anyway, not much room for Germany back there, I am still getting fucked by my own government that closely follows the USSR manual of stealing from your citizens.

[hellhamster]

Wow, fear-mongering about the Russian boogeyman really paid off I see.

You people really are sheep.

[Deleted]

I still prefer to be fucked by Germany, at least they dont wrap their dick in barbed wire.

Anyway, not much room for Germany back there, I am still getting fucked by my own government that closely follows the USSR manual of stealing from your citizens.

That's true. But its not USSR manual they are using and its not Russian fault, its normal for any developing country. Those people had nothing before. Now they want money, so they go to politics to steal money. Choice between politicians in any developing country is choice between thieves.

Wow, fear-mongering about the Russian boogeyman really paid off I see.

You people really are sheep.

Also true. Many genuinely believe that Russia started mess in Ukraine that resulted in all of that, forgetting military coup that actually started all that shit, that was sponsored by NATO countries.

NATO is the aggressor here, not Russia.

[Strawberry]

Did you forget about the plane that was shot down? Roughly 300 people were killed. Thanks Russia! This is totally not hostile behaviour.

Speculation. Russia didn't shoot it down. The closest to russian involvement it would be by giving weapons to pro-russian UKRAININANS. But even them shooting down the plane is speculation. It could've been the Ukrainian soldiers as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...to-kaliningrad

Friends don't talk like this to each other. And I will say this straight

No European nations have made such a threatening move towards Russia as to justify an escalation like that. The US might have put a pinch on Russia that Russia is now responding to, who am I to say, but no European nations have made any moves that justifies such escalation of the threat level. The Kreml wants this, legitimizing their power by creating a feeling of war being ever a possibility, but the rest of Europe have moved on and do not actually want to spend money on offensive capabilities let alone proper defenses (France and UK excluded).

Russia also has been harrashing Finland and Sweden, two historically neutral powers, to the point they might actually want to go ahead and join NATO. Finland and Sweden never posed a credible threat to Russia, but like I said, from Russia's POV it was never about this. If Russia did, for real, feel threatened by NATO, Europe or the US, the last thing they would do would be to antagonize two historically neutral neighbours. The narrative that Russia escalates in defense due to threats is incoherent. Russia wants to be a rival power to the US and the greater European nations, which is sad, because I do believe that western Europeans and Russians have more unifying us than separating us (unlike Western Europe / Arabia, which are like day and night).
https://www.vice.com/sv/article/dpwk...dish-territory

Meanwhile, EU countries are allowing USA to build missile bases next to Russia. If I was Putin, I would do the same thing. USA and NATO has always been the aggressors. They are far from peace makers and this is personal experience as I have lived in a warzone. I don't need to read news.
And Russia is not harassing Sweden lol. I live in Sweden. Sometimes a russian plane a submarine come close, but how is that harassing? Media here goes bat shit crazy about a russian plane coming close to Gotland, or they detect something weird under water near Stockholm, and the first breaking news is "RUSSIAN SUBMARINE!".

[Rogalicus]

The closest to russian involvement it would be by giving weapons to pro-russian UKRAININANS.

Most of DPR and LPR combatants came from Russia, some are nationalistic volunteers, some are mercenaries (including soldiers of actual army, which are officially 'dismissed' the day they cross the border).

[Realitytrembles]

No way. No peace with Russia. Not now. Not ever.

Ever? What about if younger Russians get tired of being a pariah nation and throw off Putin and co., then institute a true democracy in Russia? Still no peace?