Why are people bad at wow/raiding.

[Hunterwep]

Are u serious?
Why should I read guides or tactics for bosses? It’s a game, not a work.
How can I have fun from the game if I need to participate in countless wipefests with toxic nerds?

Especially when I can pay money and buy some mythic raid slaves to boost me.

You would note wipe as much if you read the guides or tactics.
Then the game becomes more fun and less toxic.

[JackWest]

Are u serious?
Why should I read guides or tactics for bosses? It’s a game, not a work.
How can I have fun from the game if I need to participate in countless wipefests with toxic nerds?

Especially when I can pay money and buy some mythic raid slaves to boost me.

You know? Not everyone plays the game just to pass time. Some of us play to achieve things, and players like yourself are only an obstacle in such situations.
Let me give you real example of ‘herp derp i just wanna play’ vs someone who persuits smth. When mage tower just went live me and my best friend both went for it. He insisted he should learn the fight by playing it. His expwrience was 10 hours of raging and screaming how shit the game is and how bad is the mage tower challenge. I on the other hand, watched few videos and read couple of guides on the fight. I went out of the ‘fight’ in 20 minutes happy of my accomplshed goal. Who do you think had more fun from the two of us

And sure, buy a boost from ‘mythic raid slaves’. Wont change the fact you are terrible player and others dont want to play with you

[ID811717]

You know? Not everyone plays the game just to pass time. Some of us play to achieve things, and players like yourself are only an obstacle in such situations.
Let me give you real example of ‘herp derp i just wanna play’ vs someone who persuits smth. When mage tower just went live me and my best friend both went for it. He insisted he should learn the fight by playing it. His expwrience was 10 hours of raging and screaming how shit the game is and how bad is the mage tower challenge. I on the other hand, watched few videos and read couple of guides on the fight. I went out of the ‘fight’ in 20 minutes happy of my accomplshed goal. Who do you think had more fun from the two of us

I don't think this a good example to make your point.

I think your friend gets more credit for "achieving things" here, because they took the time to learn the fight themselves. Hopefully they learned something new about themselves or about the game. In contrast, if you just follow a guide - it's hardly an achievement, it's just knocking out the milestones in front of you, filling out a check box with little to be proud of.

Basically, it's similar to any single-player game (since mage tower is a single-player challenge). I would be ashamed of myself if I had to go online and look up detailed tutorials of how to complete the game. The challenge for me is to figure it out myself and do it efficiently (again, nothing to be proud of if it took me 100 hours of wipes to get it done).

And I'm not trying to belittle you, this is just how I set the standards for myself.
This is completely different from raiding where you cannot afford to go in unprepared even if you wanted to do it this way.

[JackWest]

I don't think this a good example to make your point.

I think your friend gets more credit for "achieving things" here, because they took the time to learn the fight themselves. Hopefully they learned something new about themselves or about the game. In contrast, if you just follow a guide - it's hardly an achievement, it's just knocking out the milestones in front of you, filling out a check box with little to be proud of.

Basically, it's similar to any single-player game (since mage tower is a single-player challenge). I would be ashamed of myself if I had to go online and look up detailed tutorials of how to complete the game. The challenge for me is to figure it out myself and do it efficiently (again, nothing to be proud of if it took me 100 hours of wipes to get it done).

And I'm not trying to belittle you, this is just how I set the standards for myself.

I was more focused on the "having fun in the game" aspect. I have fun by setting a goal and completing it, not by doing whatever. And I do believe(both in-game and irl) a good preparation for something is like half of the work already done. Or do you wanna tell me no racing driver EVER analyzed better driver's driving patterns and tried to see what he can do better himself on the same track(aka logs/pov videos)? or that football teams go to a championship without a coach(aka guides)? I think some people here are confusing the meaning of "work" with "job". For most people, gaming is not a job, but if you wanna accomplish something in a game, there IS always work involved

[Theoris]

Personal experience suggests anxiety of screwing up affecting performance, inattentiveness, and an unfamiliarity with the environment they're in.

[kamuimac]

You would note wipe as much if you read the guides or tactics.
Then the game becomes more fun and less toxic.

its debatable though

for a lot of people clearly reading /watching guides is too much.

if majority doesnt want that then blizzard fails as company for not catering to the crowds only to tiny insignificant from buisness standpoint minority

[Kaver]

Personally I wouldn’t enjoy raid fights if I didn’t read the tacs and paid attention to the mechanics during the encounter. I don’t understand how people can enjoy raiding if they are treating the bosses as target dummies with complete tunnel vision. All raid bosses will be the same if you’re ignoring mechanics and this seems to be very boring in my opinion.

[kamuimac]

I don't think this a good example to make your point.

I think your friend gets more credit for "achieving things" here, because they took the time to learn the fight themselves. Hopefully they learned something new about themselves or about the game. In contrast, if you just follow a guide - it's hardly an achievement, it's just knocking out the milestones in front of you, filling out a check box with little to be proud of.

Basically, it's similar to any single-player game (since mage tower is a single-player challenge). I would be ashamed of myself if I had to go online and look up detailed tutorials of how to complete the game. The challenge for me is to figure it out myself and do it efficiently (again, nothing to be proud of if it took me 100 hours of wipes to get it done).

And I'm not trying to belittle you, this is just how I set the standards for myself.
This is completely different from raiding where you cannot afford to go in unprepared even if you wanted to do it this way.

you reasoning has 1 fatal flaw

normal people dont play game to achieve anything

they do stuff for "achieving stuff" irl

games are for fun not for fake achievements.

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The very fact you have to go to an external website to read how to play your class and you have to download half a dozen addons just to be able to function at the bare minimum should be enough to tell you there is something fundamentally wrong with the game. If everyone must have these as core requirements, why are they not in built into the game? If you need to study a third party website to learn how to play your class, why are people complaining about ability prune and saying it's too dumbed down?

this very much this.

vanilla to wolk next to nobody in game read any guides and people barely used any addons

and game had so much more subscribers.

blizzard fucked up in cata starting with hc dungeons and following with raids when they started to cater content only for hardcore crowd.

[coldfront]

Self awareness and awareness of your surroundings separates a Mythic raiders to average normal raiders.

Self enjoyment, having fun and any other reasons listed are all part of any game online or single player, if you differentiate the difference between someone who is aware of what is happening and can think 3 steps ahead, compared to someone who is unaware of what is happening are the distinct differences in a player.

You can happily teach someone a strategy and tell them what to do over 50 times during wipes but if that person is simply unaware they just don't have the skill sets to progress any further.

[Gaidax]

Cute, people still regard a game as some sort of work.

People need to chill, those who want to do anal balls to the wall raiding have more than enough like-minded individuals, leave people who don't want to do it alone.

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games are for fun not for fake achievements.

All there needs be said.

[exdeath202]

its also something what younger people just cant know - with time even if you had amazing coordination and muscle memory it deteriorates. maybe not to crazy levels but people who started in vanilla as 20 year olds are 35 now and have waaaaay worse cordination then current people in their twenties.

you simply cant beat nature which is what a ton of people forgets

Its not a fps ffs. You dont need great reflexes for wow. And most people arent crippled by 35, im 34, playing since vanilla and im getting better if anything. I top recounts and dont mess mechnics im raid, i even pvp.
I have a theory, people who suck at gaming stick to wow, its one of the easier games and bad players can still be integrated in many roosters.
We tested at https://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/ and some younger people were slower than the old people in my guild. IMHO things like alcohol and drugs abuse are more noticeable than age.

[Daffan]

That's exactly the difference between decent players and drag-alongs. It is truly amazing how many people underestimate the power of watching and reading things - man you can learn so much by just watching streams. But ofc why would people put effort into something "because they don't have time for scheduled raiding hurdur" when they can open a weekly chest in their order hall and get a free mythic equivalent item.

Forget watching streams, people are so awful and inefficient they'd rather spend 10 weeks farming LFR rather then reading ICY Veins once and getting way ahead.

[Deleted]

its also something what younger people just cant know - with time even if you had amazing coordination and muscle memory it deteriorates. maybe not to crazy levels but people who started in vanilla as 20 year olds are 35 now and have waaaaay worse cordination then current people in their twenties.

you simply cant beat nature which is what a ton of people forgets

Still getting my glad title whenever season i want. I'm turning 38 in june. Can you ?

[Frolk]

If you're to MAKE people play the game YOU want them to play... you could also pay their subs.

If you don't PAY their subs, then stfu.

Oh, it's a online game and people MUST know how to play with others? Tough shit, don't like it, don't play it.

If said person is in an dungeon with 4 other people guess whos getting kicked for being a shitter.

Are u one of these ppl?, u seem very angry on this subject.

[JackWest]

you reasoning has 1 fatal flaw

normal people dont play game to achieve anything

they do stuff for "achieving stuff" irl

games are for fun not for fake achievements.

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this very much this.

vanilla to wolk next to nobody in game read any guides and people barely used any addons

and game had so much more subscribers.

blizzard fucked up in cata starting with hc dungeons and following with raids when they started to cater content only for hardcore crowd.

There are few issues with what you said. First, "normal" is a matter of perception. Even you as a gamer are not "normal" to some people. Also, knowing a lot of people who play wow, I can safely say those who "are bad" at it also havent rly achieved anything irl. And how do you define "fake"? I personally feel when I clear the current raid on mythic and get Cutting Edge its way more "real" than someone's college diploma who just paid for it and had probably 10 days in college overall(happens in my home country a lot). Lastly, its also in Cata when they started to make the game more and more casual and reward more "participation" than "efford". The amount of people I see in high gear, who are clearly bad at the game(dont know how their class works even) is insanely high. Wasnt the case in the previous expansions

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Cute, people still regard a game as some sort of work.

People need to chill, those who want to do anal balls to the wall raiding have more than enough like-minded individuals, leave people who don't want to do it alone.

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All there needs be said.

Someone sounds salty as fuck. I think you also wanted to say "job" there, not "work". Almost everything you do goes under the "work" category. Cooking your dinner is work. Taking a shower is work. Hell, even installing wow is "work" by definition.

"work
[wəːk]
noun
1.
activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a result"

You seem "unhappy" about the people who treat their game more seriously than you. Can you show me on the "LFR frame" where the bad group leader touched you? Is it on the "decline"?
One more thing, the people who need to "chill" are the ones who dont want to be bothered putting time and efford into their characters, but somehow expect the players who do, to carry them through the content. Thats NOT how it works

[Pooti]

This is complete gibberish to me. What are wago, DL, WA package and Reloe?

I suck at raiding because:

• I have memory problems (so I don't remember all the shit a boss does until I've done them many times).
• I don't use keybindings (because I can't remember them).
• My reaction speed is too slow to get out of stuff fast enough.
• I get overwhelmed by all the different things happening and can't focus on a rotation ánd move.
• I get incredibly bored of doing the same fight more then a few times and lose focus.

Mind you, I can still raid normal, but I just don't like it. I've never tried heroic, but I would probably manage, if the group is nice (as in, not yelling at me for making a mistake).

This is an amazing amount of self awareness and honesty. Impressive.

[Deleted]

Really? You need addons for raiding? For what? 9/10 mechanics is 1. Kill add. 2. Stack. 3. Spread. 4. Dont stand in shit. That's pretty much every mechanic in the boss game. Unless tank. Then its: CD every 1 min or taunt at X stacks. Why people struggle with this game at all is beyond me.

Edit: 5, run out of group with debuff. Now that's all of them.

[shyguybman]

No mechanics? My Dungeon journal sure shows mechanics.

I think you know what I mean, it is probably one of the easiest fights in the raid but pugs are HORRIBLE at it.

[Gaidax]

Someone sounds salty as fuck. I think you also wanted to say "job" there, not "work". Almost everything you do goes under the "work" category. Cooking your dinner is work. Taking a shower is work. Hell, even installing wow is "work" by definition.

"work
[wəːk]
noun
1.
activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a result"

You seem "unhappy" about the people who treat their game more seriously than you. Can you show me on the "LFR frame" where the bad group leader touched you? Is it on the "decline"?
One more thing, the people who need to "chill" are the ones who dont want to be bothered putting time and efford into their characters, but somehow expect the players who do, to carry them through the content. Thats NOT how it works

Nice - a 5/11M guy telling me to treat my game more seriously. I got my 11/11M clear, it's ok, I know how to press buttons at the right time.

I think you are overreaching way beyond your stature here, buddy, with all your LFR bitching and what not.

See, thing is - people get to play the game the way they like it and guess what it's fine and that includes not reading shit, not downloading addons and even fucking clicking your abilities randomly. Will they have M.Argue on farm? No. Will they still have fun for whatever it takes - probably!

It's like at my work, there is a 47 years old Senior Developer who plays wow super casually and if you'd tell me he has no ability to read shit or put effort into anything I'd fucking laugh you off, because the guy does shit you could not dream of at work. For him WoW is literally login once or twice a week press random buttons in dung for his amusement and log out.

His 16 years old kid is playing it quite a bit more, sure he has time, after all he can leech of his dad nicely and not have a worry in the world.

Game is a game - you are free to approach it any way you like, but does not mean you should start pushing your "hardcore" bullshit on others or profile them because they don't play the way YOU deem to be "right".

[Deleted]

I'm a former raidleader of a group which managed to clear every hc raid in MoP before the next consecutive content released while maintaining a 3 night-schedule with my 10 man roster. I quit after MoP and came back 5 weeks ago.

I had huge trouble coming back into the game while being mechanically decent with keyboard+mouse. My friends helped me out with the gearing in mythic+ 15s where I just got destroyed with my warlock due to lack of knowledge. Here some snippets:

- died to BRH final bosses shadowbolt volley. They told me to use a CD. I answered "I don't have it talented". Later I found out that the Unending Resolve Ability wasn't removed with WoD/Legion and I simply overlooked it in my spellbook...

- Arcway: I took control of an Eredar Chaosbringer and don't see any timer on his debuff. "cool that they removed the duration..." and of course it released during final boss and Chaos Bolt melted my face.


A lot of people have decent enough mechanical skill for WoW. It is actually on the lower end spectrum concerning multitasking and actions per minute. Most of the difficulty actually comes from the required game knowledge and how to find the external sources to acquire it. I coached alot of my players in my raid back in the day because they already had the mechanical skill and they improved through their previous ceillings and ultimately cleared the raids. I only have trouble nowadays due to not knowing/practicing anything dungeon/raid related. The game itself is on the same difficulty as before.