Are we losing the Moon spells in BfA?

[lappee]

casting wrath. allll the time.
no procs, far less asp spenders, no goldrinn procs, no big ass moon visuals (ok we can get it back if we want)

its small things like visuals and procs that bring a bit of interest tothe gameplay

We don't have procs (that affect the gameplay) in Legion either.

In Alpha with standard Legion ST spec you'll cast 3 Wraths in a row. After that it'll be Surge -> Wrath -> Starfire -> Wrath (2nd wrath every 2 or 3 repeats) and repeat. Not that different from Legion without legendaries.

Picking other talents, such as New Moon, will increase the amount of Wraths but then again if you're picking some other talent setup than pure ST then you're probably going to do something else than just spamming Wrath on ST.

Pooling resources leads to Wrath spam but theres nothing one can really do about it.

So its basically visuals that make the spec boring, I guess thats your cup of tea and BfA certainly cuts visuals like Goldrinn and Echoing Stars. Surely something I didn't consider before.

[wing5wong]

We don't have procs (that affect the gameplay) in Legion either.

In Alpha with standard Legion ST spec you'll cast 3 Wraths in a row. After that it'll be Surge -> Wrath -> Starfire -> Wrath (2nd wrath every 2 or 3 repeats) and repeat. Not that different from Legion without legendaries.

Picking other talents, such as New Moon, will increase the amount of Wraths but then again if you're picking some other talent setup than pure ST then you're probably going to do something else than just spamming Wrath on ST.

Pooling resources leads to Wrath spam but theres nothing one can really do about it.

So its basically visuals that make the spec boring, I guess thats your cup of tea and BfA certainly cuts visuals like Goldrinn and Echoing Stars. Surely something I didn't consider before.

Its the 'without legendaries' part that is the clincher. The visuals are not for everyone, but would you be keen on shooting only fireball but the damage changing? a bit of variety keeps it interesting.
Legion brought with it an expectation of gameplay going forward. You cant really go from Legion with full legendaries, to legion with 0 legendaries and artifacts and call it a day going forward.

ST rotation: MF SF (6) 4 wraths (46), [SS(6) wrath(E) LS(E) wrath (41) ss(1) wrath(E) LS(E) wrath wrath (46)]....
beyond the initial build you cast 5 wraths (3 Empowered 2 non), 2 Emp LS and 2 SS. forever. a static rotation repeated adinfinitum with no chance of changing. ever.

The fact that some of the wraths are even empowered is completely irelevant - you have to cast them anyway, and they just do damage.
It works, but its not any form of exciting gameplay.

[Lahis]

Well time to fucking jump ship then.

Atleast Feral still looks decent without the artifact.

[wing5wong]

Well time to fucking jump ship then.

Atleast Feral still looks decent without the artifact.

Not really the right attitude - its a first pass, provide constructive feedback about specifics.
and dont just say make moon baseline.

[lappee]

Its the 'without legendaries' part that is the clincher. The visuals are not for everyone, but would you be keen on shooting only fireball but the damage changing? a bit of variety keeps it interesting.
Legion brought with it an expectation of gameplay going forward. You cant really go from Legion with full legendaries, to legion with 0 legendaries and artifacts and call it a day going forward.

ST rotation: MF SF (6) 4 wraths (46), [SS(6) wrath(E) LS(E) wrath (41) ss(1) wrath(E) LS(E) wrath wrath (46)]....
beyond the initial build you cast 5 wraths (3 Empowered 2 non), 2 Emp LS and 2 SS. forever. a static rotation repeated adinfinitum with no chance of changing. ever.

The fact that some of the wraths are even empowered is completely irelevant - you have to cast them anyway, and they just do damage.
It works, but its not any form of exciting gameplay.

I'm still thinking (hoping?) that Azerite armor would bring back similar effects that Legendaries have which is why I'm talking about the basic rotation. If Azerite armor is a lackluster (aka no change in gameplay) then that is just a failure on the whole system.

Your ST opener doesn't use Incarnation that would decrease Wraths to 3 and reduce the amount of normal Wraths during it. Guess it depends on which talent you describe as the go-to ST talent, for me SotF is the AoE talent in the row.
In any case the ST rotation isn't that static (but is close to it) due to the need to refresh Moonfire (NB just isn't enough).

Empowered Wraths aren't the same as normal Wraths when using Starlord. Its almost like saying casting Wrath and Starfire is the same on ST.

[Speaknoevil]

The moon is gone in BFA, canon is that Full Moon was only cast 1 time by the player character, then the moon was gone.

[wing5wong]

I'm still thinking (hoping?) that Azerite armor would bring back similar effects that Legendaries have which is why I'm talking about the basic rotation. If Azerite armor is a lackluster (aka no change in gameplay) then that is just a failure on the whole system.

Your ST opener doesn't use Incarnation that would decrease Wraths to 3 and reduce the amount of normal Wraths during it. Guess it depends on which talent you describe as the go-to ST talent, for me SotF is the AoE talent in the row.
In any case the ST rotation isn't that static (but is close to it) due to the need to refresh Moonfire (NB just isn't enough).

Empowered Wraths aren't the same as normal Wraths when using Starlord. Its almost like saying casting Wrath and Starfire is the same on ST.

Ahh i was testing stellar flare (its still bad). So yea that would change the opener slightly.
I actually do think wrath and LS are still too similar on ST. you're going tocast them anyway (and only because empowered LS does more than unempowered wrath) - theres no choice.

Id agree with you that theres a chance that azerite armour could improve things and i hope it does.

I dont think the base balance toolkit is BAD per say, its just not exciting or interesting, and we still have a few issues hanging around from legion.

Id still ike for sslightly more differentiation between SW and LS. simply casting it because it does more than an unempored is (and also in legion) pretty lame.
Also wondering if anything will be done to the positions of talents; still stuck chooing the 'aoe' build (woe/sotf/sd) or the 'ST' build (sl/inc/nb), with no real variance within those setups. Maybe swapping sotf or StFl with FoE for a 75 CD row, and the 100 row becomes your gameplay defining row (less dot maintenance, more aoe damage, or more dot maintenance by allowing SotF+StFl combo

[Cazz17]

Moon is back as a talent (see front page).

[wing5wong]

Moon is back as a talent (see front page).

already discussed. provides roughly the same ASP as astral communion /BotA:A did, and doesnt solve current issuess with the spec

[lappee]

Ahh i was testing stellar flare (its still bad). So yea that would change the opener slightly.
I actually do think wrath and LS are still too similar on ST. you're going tocast them anyway (and only because empowered LS does more than unempowered wrath) - theres no choice.

Id agree with you that theres a chance that azerite armour could improve things and i hope it does.

I dont think the base balance toolkit is BAD per say, its just not exciting or interesting, and we still have a few issues hanging around from legion.

Id still ike for sslightly more differentiation between SW and LS. simply casting it because it does more than an unempored is (and also in legion) pretty lame.
Also wondering if anything will be done to the positions of talents; still stuck chooing the 'aoe' build (woe/sotf/sd) or the 'ST' build (sl/inc/nb), with no real variance within those setups. Maybe swapping sotf or StFl with FoE for a 75 CD row, and the 100 row becomes your gameplay defining row (less dot maintenance, more aoe damage, or more dot maintenance by allowing SotF+StFl combo

There is no choice in whether you use them or not. There is a choice when to use those Starfires as its not our main generator, however slight dps gain it is.
I like to think Starfire being a bigger punch that we get to do every now and then but that thinking derives from TBC (I loved "one-shotting" people).

I don't think talents really need re-positioning. Sure if you go full out AoE or strictly ST your choices are quite minimal but any variance in encounters could potentially spice things up. It comes down to scaling and the encounters.
If something I could see Incarnation and Stellar Drift swapping around. This way 75 row is more AoE focused and 100 row more ST focused if FoE gets dmg reduction on additional targets (think of Full Moon) and becomes competitive for ST.

[wing5wong]

There is no choice in whether you use them or not. There is a choice when to use those Starfires as its not our main generator, however slight dps gain it is.
I like to think Starfire being a bigger punch that we get to do every now and then but that thinking derives from TBC (I loved "one-shotting" people).

I don't think talents really need re-positioning. Sure if you go full out AoE or strictly ST your choices are quite minimal but any variance in encounters could potentially spice things up. It comes down to scaling and the encounters.
If something I could see Incarnation and Stellar Drift swapping around. This way 75 row is more AoE focused and 100 row more ST focused if FoE gets dmg reduction on additional targets (think of Full Moon) and becomes competitive for ST.

That mighht work. leaves StFl in an awkward position being tied to the high asp starfall.
Its currently very difficult to empower just 2 stfl targets.

[huth]

Fury of Elune Calls down a beam of pure celestial energy that follows the target enemy for 8 sec, dealing [2 * (30% of Spell power)] Astral damage to all nearby enemies every sec.
Cost changed from 6 Astral Power, plus 12 per sec to 80 Astral Power

http://bfa.wowhead.com/news=283705/b...azerite-powers

FoE was also added to Mastery when talented.

Also, Sunfire is now 8y radius baseline.

Edith: The FoE beam will remain for the full 8 seconds no matter what. If the target dies, it remains stationary at its current position. It moves fast enough to always hit a mob moving at normal speed. No manual control exists anymore.

[Deleted]

Fury of Elune Calls down a beam of pure celestial energy that follows the target enemy for 8 sec, dealing [2 * (30% of Spell power)] Astral damage to all nearby enemies every sec.
Cost changed from 6 Astral Power, plus 12 per sec to 80 Astral Power

http://bfa.wowhead.com/news=283705/b...azerite-powers


Edith: The FoE beam will remain for the full 8 seconds no matter what. If the target dies, it remains stationary at its current position. It moves fast enough to always hit a mob moving at normal speed. No manual control exists anymore.

I tested it and like it actually. It is a big damage burst spell and with 80 power costs it has to be built up.

Concerning moon moon, I like it being a talent, but as others have pointed out, the ressource generation is just bad in general and needs to be addressed.
However! These are the first changes balance gets so far, so maybe they have just started working on druids by now. So while it is totally fine and important to give feedback now, we should not panic

[Chappyzilla]

I fell like I'm in the minority but I hated the moon spells, I mean full moon is cool and all but the other 2 were just so boring and anti-climatic. I'm happy to see them go

[huth]

I fell like I'm in the minority but I hated the moon spells, I mean full moon is cool and all but the other 2 were just so boring and anti-climatic. I'm happy to see them go

You're a tad late for that. Though now that they are talents, they might do a little more work on the first two.

[Chappyzilla]

You're a tad late for that. Though now that they are talents, they might do a little more work on the first two.

Hopefully, but I'll live in a fantasy world where I don't have to use them. I would rather they speed us up just a lil bit then make the moon spells talents

[huth]

Hopefully, but I'll live in a fantasy world where I don't have to use them. I would rather they speed us up just a lil bit then make the moon spells talents

At least you'll be more able to get away with that with Shooting Stars and BotA than in Legion.

Most important thing for me right now is that we're finally getting worked on at all.

[ttylol]

What if Starsurge gave only one empowerment, 50/50 Solar or Lunar? Would add a bit of spice to rotation and create room to buff empowerments so they feel more impactful.

(tbh they could just reskin ff14 red mage rotation for balance lol)

[huth]

Reducing the number of empowerments is only going to make it worse. Particularly since Solar Empowerment doesn't really require any reaction at all(you'd use it up rotationally anyway), so it would be like SS only had a 50% chance of proccing an empowerment.

The changes this build already help spice things up a bit, though. Particularly if FoE is tuned to competitive numbers on the live builds

It certainly made FoE a lot more user friendly.

[dreamdaddy]

I'm happy about the FoE rework because it will finally give us an option to put Ele Sham in their place (which is on the bench) with our burst AoE.