Scaling and a few other things

[dragnipur]

When i 1st tried scaling in 2012 it was something new i never tried before.It was a strange thing to not overgear and one shot things.But with time i started to enjoy it.It makes grouping better and more enjoyable.Makes you to want meet people and group with them.Combine it with mob and node shared tagging and personal loot you no more fear of people stealing your items,mobs or nodes.So actually i'm a huge fan of a few things:

1. Scaling
2.Mob and node shared tag
3.Personal loot

Three other MMOs have it a long time before Blizzard even thought about stealing the idea and deciding to try it.I'm glad they did.I hope they keep improving it.I also hope they let all levels be salable and not just from 110 to 120.

GW2 has those things since 2012(from day one) and everyone likes it.

SWTOR has scaling since 2015 and people DO NOT dislike it.
https://massivelyop.com/2015/10/01/s...fallen-empire/

ESO also has it since 2017 i think.
https://www.usgamer.net/articles/eld...more-mmos-need

In GW2 the scaling works better because the game is build around horizontal progression so you never get stronger instead you become more prettier which is NOT a bad thing.To each his own.
In SWTOR you have horizontal progression but even with it the scaling is still in place and it does not bother people.
ESO has horizontal progression (leveling and gearing) exactly like SWTOR but still the scaling is also present and people are fine with it.

Since the begging of Legion Blizzard added it to WoW and now with BFA they are trying to improve it.I'm glad with their decision.What people must understand is that you have barely leveled to 120.You don't have any good and meaningful gear.Start doing mythics.Wait for raids and M+ to open.Once you have gear from there you will be again able to aoe pull trash mobs in Open world like you did in Legion.Or is your memory so short?

More MMOs will have scaling in the future not less.People should get this into their heads.

[Accendor]

Why give me 320 gear when you scale mobs so that it actually only works like 310 gear? Why not give me 310 in the first place and dont scale?

Scaling is the worst thing that has ever happened to this game, right after sharding and phasing.

[Ærion]

When i 1st tried scaling in 2012 it was something new i never tried before.It was a strange thing to not overgear and one shot things.But with time i started to enjoy it.It makes grouping better and more enjoyable.Makes you to want meet people and group with them.Combine it with mob and node shared tagging and personal loot you no more fear of people stealing your items,mobs or nodes.So actually i'm a huge fan of a few things:

1. Scaling
2.Mob and node shared tag
3.Personal loot

Three other MMOs have it a long time before Blizzard even thought about stealing the idea and deciding to try it.I'm glad they did.I hope they keep improving it.I also hope they let all levels be salable and not just from 110 to 120.

GW2 has those things since 2012(from day one) and everyone likes it.

SWTOR has scaling since 2015 and people DO NOT dislike it.
https://massivelyop.com/2015/10/01/s...fallen-empire/

ESO also has it since 2017 i think.
https://www.usgamer.net/articles/eld...more-mmos-need

In GW2 the scaling works better because the game is build around horizontal progression so you never get stronger instead you become more prettier which is NOT a bad thing.To each his own.
In SWTOR you have horizontal progression but even with it the scaling is still in place and it does not bother people.
ESO is also has horizontal progression (leveling and gearing) exactly like SWTOR but still the scaling is also present and people are fine with it.

Since the begging of Legion Blizzard added it to WoW and now with BFA they are trying to improve it.I'm glad with their decision.What people must understand is that you have barely leveled to 120.You don't have any good and meaningful gear.Start doing mythics.Wait for raids and M+ to open.Once you have gear from there you will be again able to aoe pull trash mobs in Open world like you did in Legion.Or is your memory so short?

More MMOs will have scaling in the future not less.People should get this into their heads.

TL;DR: I like scaling.

Good for you guy, good for you. See, I don't like 0 progression whatsoever; what's my recourse? to go screw myself? I liked the leveling - up until the leggies stopped working and suddenly I was being brought to within 5% of death on every enemy; screw me for not picking a tank or something huh. I can't even begin to imagine how enemies will work once the Argus equivalent starts rolling out; one-shot city doesn't sound like much fun to me.

Let you in on a little secret? I play games to have fun. Power fantasies are quite fun. What happens when you take all the fantasy of getting stronger and make all the gearing and leveling and stuff meaningless? no more fun. Good thing there are other games to play till they (the dear devs at blizz) get the memo. And if they don't? that's fine, there's always next expansion.

[Kazlofski]

Why give me 320 gear when you scale mobs so that it actually only works like 310 gear? Why not give me 310 in the first place and dont scale?

Scaling is the worst thing that has ever happened to this game, right after sharding and phasing.

Agreed, I hate this scaling. I am by no means a fan of 1 shotting mobs, but it feels like artificially extending the game play time just for the sake of it.
Things take ages to kill, the rotation feels slow and sluggish because of GCDs and low amounts of haste causing those GCDs to end slowly + hitting like paper.

I remember Legion release quite well, WQs took various amounts of time to do but I am 100% sure they take x3 more time now.
There is being weak when you just ding 120, and then there's fighting mobs now while it feels like you constantly play on 200-300ms. It can still play fluidly being weak and not like in the current situation.

[Themanintobuildafire]

Why give me 320 gear when you scale mobs so that it actually only works like 310 gear? Why not give me 310 in the first place and dont scale?

Scaling is the worst thing that has ever happened to this game, right after sharding and phasing.

Agree with this.

Pretty funny that 110-115 I was killing mobs 1/2 as fast as from 118-120. Scaling is just stupid. I would rather see WQ go byebye....and I actually enjoy them, but I dislike scaling more, so I'd rather have a zone with blue ! like in MoP...

[dragnipur]

Things take ages to kill, the rotation feels slow and sluggish because of GCDs and low amounts of haste causing those GCDs to end slowly + hitting like paper.

I remember Legion release quite well, WQs took various amounts of time to do but I am 100% sure they take x3 more time now.
There is being weak when you just ding 120, and then there's fighting mobs now while it feels like you constantly play on 200-300ms. It can still play fluidly being weak and not like in the current situation.

This was also a 'problem' in TBC and Wrath (I didn't play other expansions except Legion and now BFA) where there was no scaling at all.

My holy priest in high end vanilla geared just ran around Hellfire Penunsila spamming holy nova to kill large pulls while healing himself. Green geared players were struggling with one boar at a time.

My arena geared warrior just went as a level 70 to the high level zones at the start of Wrath to gank Alliance. He was god mode with his high end pvp gear versus a level 80 with weak gear (even if they still wore their level 70 stuff).

It all depends on the gear you're wearing. If you level a new character and don't have the Legion epics and legendaries you will have a very hard time in BFA until you get enough quest rewards.

I've seen the rewards are 200/210 itemlevel which is raid finder level from Antorus. When you level to 110 in Legion you will only be itemlevel 780-790 (no idea how this translates to post patch 8.0 numbers) when you enter BFA and you will feel very, very weak.

I had this problem in Legion. I came to the new expansion with green quest gear from WoD and Pandaria. I barely survived fighting one demon at a time and cheated my first handful of quests by tagging mobs other people were killing. It was a struggle until I finally replaced all my Pandaria gear. I was already 103 before I had enough itemlevel to join a Legion normal.

Be happy that the first weeks will be a bit more challenging, scaling stops after a certain item level. When M+ and raids open you will out gear the content pretty fast

- - - Updated - - -

Why give me 320 gear when you scale mobs so that it actually only works like 310 gear? Why not give me 310 in the first place and dont scale?

Scaling is the worst thing that has ever happened to this game, right after sharding and phasing.

Because you over gear them as times go by and you start one shotting them.With scaling your gear will not make the content irrelevant until the expansion is over.The mage tower is a perfect example of having better gear vs not scaling content.The encounter became much more easier than it was meant to be.
Yes it is good to have a gear progression but it leads to priests solo healing Argus Mythic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOwslt0ZrRk&t=2s
Yes it is great team work but such things must not be possible with current content.

[deragot7]

Why give me 320 gear when you scale mobs so that it actually only works like 310 gear? Why not give me 310 in the first place and dont scale?

Scaling is the worst thing that has ever happened to this game, right after sharding and phasing.

Bax if you don't like sharding then MMOs are not for you.What is the point to not play with people and to play on an empty realm?I still remember the times before the creation of the megaservers.There were so many low realms which were empty ghost towns and people complained non stop.This is not the case anymore with the shards and phasing.Connecting the realms is the best thing Blizzard did.
Can it be improved? Yes it can.
Are there other MMOs doing it better than WoW? Yes there are.(Such example is GW2)
What Blizzard must do is improve the scaling and sharding more.

[Deleted]

https://clips.twitch.tv/TameWiseJaguarUWot

Great scaling in PvP aswell

[Accendor]

Bax if you don't like sharding then MMOs are not for you.What is the point to not play with people and to play on an empty realm?I still remember the times before the creation of the megaservers.There were so many low realms which were empty ghost towns and people complained non stop.This is not the case anymore with the shards and phasing.Connecting the realms is the best thing Blizzard did.
Can it be improved? Yes it can.
Are there other MMOs doing it better than WoW? Yes there are.(Such example is GW2)
What Blizzard must do is improve the scaling and sharding more.

What? I actually is the other way around. Sharding PREVENTS me from playing with other people. WTF are you talking about?

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Because you over gear them as times go by and you start one shotting them.With scaling your gear will not make the content irrelevant until the expansion is over.The mage tower is a perfect example of having better gear vs not scaling content.The encounter became much more easier than it was meant to be.
Yes it is good to have a gear progression but it leads to priests solo healing Argus Mythic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOwslt0ZrRk&t=2s
Yes it is great team work but such things must not be possible with current content.

Sorry, you did not answer the question. If you would like to answer it, please try again.
The question was "Why give me 320 gear when you scale mobs so that it actually only works like 310 gear? Why not give me 310 in the first place and dont scale?"

[dragnipur]

No Accendor@
Your problem is how the sharding and the Group finder are connecting.Before the WQGF and grouping addons in general receiving the nerf hammer this problem never existed to begin with.It started with BFA and only then.In Legion WQGF had an option to search PvP servers.It had a switch for turning it on and off.Such option does not exist today in the Group finder.Also once you are in War mode you meet players only with that mode turned on Role playing realms and PvE realm are the same.The sharding problem can be fixed by blizzard.Make the different groups(PvE,RP,WarM) either not see each other or have indicators in the group finder showing in which mode is the person or just make everyone enter Leader's server by clicking on the leader UI like in GW2.

Your gear question is already answered once.Do you even bother reading what is posted?What are you using these eyes of yours for?But i will link you the most important part again.

My holy priest in high end vanilla geared just ran around Hellfire Penunsila spamming holy nova to kill large pulls while healing himself. Green geared players were struggling with one boar at a time.

My arena geared warrior just went as a level 70 to the high level zones at the start of Wrath to gank Alliance. He was god mode with his high end pvp gear versus a level 80 with weak gear (even if they still wore their level 70 stuff).

Be happy that the first weeks will be a bit more challenging, scaling stops after a certain item level. When M+ and raids open you will out gear the content pretty fast

Because you over gear them as times go by and you start one shotting them.With scaling your gear will not make the content irrelevant until the expansion is over.The mage tower is a perfect example of having better gear vs not scaling content.The encounter became much more easier than it was meant to be.
Yes it is good to have a gear progression but it leads to priests solo healing Argus Mythic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOwslt0ZrRk&t=2s
Yes it is great team work but such things must not be possible with current content.

Repeating myself makes me tired.Read more before asking already answered questions.

- - - Updated - - -

https://clips.twitch.tv/TameWiseJaguarUWot

Great scaling in PvP aswell

This is old news and has been fixed already.Stop posting outdated things.Only 110-120 is scaling under it is not working.So?What exactly is the problem the problem there?I agree Blizzard did not have the time to find a way to fix it so they turned it off.Problem is dealt with until they find a better solution for it.

[Toughschmidt]

All I know is that if I get better gear from a dungeon, then I go and continue a quest that I was on before said dungeon, it should not get more difficult. It doesn't feel right. It should AT LEAST feel the same. Not harder. It just feels broken.

***world quest, not regular quest

[cuafpr]

scaling is horrible! Why did i just bother with 10 lvls nothings changed? the mobs i fought at 110 are now 120 and hitting like 120's heck i lvled as prot and when i went from 119 to 120 i had to change my plan of attack pre 120 it was pull everything thing and live, i hit 120 and it was ok pull 4-8 and keep cool downs ready, it wasn't till ilvl 300 that 120 felt like 119. I warned my friends still leveling to expect the 119 to 120 jump to suck

[Wries]

GW2 has those things since 2012(from day one) and everyone likes it.

But that pool of "everyone" was selected due to them liking it and having to accept it as a premise of the game. I bought GW2 and quit soon after I realised that when I got back to a hard zone I'd leveled past, the game just scaled me down to my previous power level. My progress felt diminished if not pointless.

WoW used to not have scaling for so many years, hence why many of us who play did not appreciate that it was implemented in a game that previously was perfectly able to provide engaging content without such measures.

[Deleted]

the return to the life of a adventurer after a decade as ascending demigod/superhero was a major claim to (parts of) the community.
world mobs being threads (at least in packs) - i guess there is a majority at least accepting the idea that prot paladin fantasy isnt Capt. A soloing a Reichswehr regiment.

but vertical progression in Open World is directive (at least personal, if not logical) for immersion, even the life (and skills of) Adventures develop, it just would feel weird to have beaten Aszhara, but a pack of boars still is a thread?

but as lore is incoherent to itemization, how can some hobo trolls pose a thread to the Grand Crusder, the Deathbringer, i slayed Titans?
And then there is ilvl in Kul-Tiras even the greatest force in the multiverse (Legion) wasnt able to construct? kthxbai @Lore authenticity, trivial i know, but u get my point in the context of scaling?

[edw]

the only thing that bothers me is how powerful 110-115 chars can be vs a 120 char, sometimes is funny when you see a 120 guy fighting two mobs and sweating his ass off then the 112 guy comes, kills the 120 guy and the two mobs )

[Dhrizzle]

Why give me 320 gear when you scale mobs so that it actually only works like 310 gear? Why not give me 310 in the first place and dont scale?

Scaling is the worst thing that has ever happened to this game, right after sharding and phasing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the scaling only happen in world content? I'm pretty sure the idea is for players to receive the full power boost in raids/dungeons or content where it can seem significant, but then have it scaled back for easier content where higher end gear can make the game completely trivial. The alternative would be introducing content where the mobs are much harder, but that runs the risk of making it only suitable for people who are already raiding and leaving out players who aren't so highly geared.

[clevin]

The problem with scaling is that it invalidates leveling and levels should mean something. In WoW, levels mean you grow in power. IF the world scales with you, why have levels? You can say "well, because you can't get 350 gear before 120" but that's just a design decision.

I want to be able to go to a zone where the mobs are 110-113 and, if I'm 120, be able to smash them. If they're 120 that won't happen.

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... but then have it scaled back for easier content where higher end gear can make the game completely trivial.

Well... that's one of the fun things about GETTING gear. It makes me that much more powerful. Again, if I'm going to level up and get better and better gear, but much of that is invalidated by scaling that feels... off.

[Triptych]

I liked the leveling - up until the leggies stopped working and suddenly I was being brought to within 5% of death on every enemy; screw me for not picking a tank or something huh.

I was kind of nervous about this - I'd been wearing Roots of Shaladrassil on my elemental shammy, and the constant self-heal made me able to face-tank large packs of enemies while spamming chain lightning and barely dropping below ~85%.

However, I've now moved past that point to level 117, and quite honestly it wasn't as dramatic as I feared. Sure, I now need to throw an occasional Healing Surge and make sure I keep my Earth Shield up, but I'm still crushing my foes and in no danger unless I get totally reckless/careless.

[MisterBigglez]

I ding 120 with 285 ilvl. Mobs take on average 8 seconds to kill. I get my ilvl to 342. Mobs take on average 8 seconds to kill. Wat?

[Klingers]

SWTOR has scaling since 2015 and people DO NOT dislike it.
https://massivelyop.com/2015/10/01/s...fallen-empire/

As a big SWTOR fan I agree with you, Bioware did a great job with its scaling and it made the leveling experience objectively better. I would say in SWTOR's case however the combat is far more visually impressive and trash tends to die quicker, plus they were in many cases addressing the problem of being under-leveled when trying to play through story content.

By contrast Blizzard's version of scaling just means smashing your head against boring meat-sponge enemies that just. won't. fucking. die. You can still autopilot while watching Netflix on the second screen because the enemies aren't any real threat, they just die slower. Increasing time-to-kill and doing nothing else doesn't make your core combat systems more engaging, which is a lesson Blizzard really need to learn.