Trump's 25% on Chinese goods will hurt American Consumers.

[Elegiac]

Lest we forget the big flood that cost Midwest farmers billions of dollars was because of Trump and his idiotic trade war. All that produce would have gone to China but since the trade war, they just sat in storage until they were ruined. So unlike the idiot above saying farming isn't viable because we have to bail them out. It's more like Trump trying to not lose all his supports because "Trade Wars are easy".

You know, if I didn't know any better I'd say these repeated calamities are a sign the gods are angry.

[Flower Milk]

You know, if I didn't know any better I'd say these repeated calamities are a sign the gods are angry.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...nts-food-water

This guy who straight up looks just like Jesus (if he was white anyway) is going to be sent to jail by the Trump administration for 20 YEARS because he gave food and water to migrants. Something Jesus literally does in the Bible.

I'm starting to think you're probably right. We need Jesus to come and knock over some tables and whip these grifters like he did in the Bible when he found out they were selling things in his and God's name.

In the temple courts He found men selling cattle, sheep, and doves, and money changers seated at their tables. So He made a whip out of cords and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle. He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those selling doves He said, “Get these out of here! How dare you turn My Father’s house into a marketplace!”

[Elegiac]

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...nts-food-water

This guy who straight up looks just like Jesus (if he was white anyway) is going to be sent to jail by the Trump administration for 20 YEARS because he gave food and water to migrants. Something Jesus literally does in the Bible.

I'm starting to think you're probably right. We need Jesus to come and knock over some tables and whip these grifters like he did in the Bible when he found out they were selling things in his and God's name.

Nah man, Christian punishment is too benign.

Let's ask the Greek gods for ideas how to punish wicked rulers.

[Zan15]

Since those mostly come from CA, TX, AZ and Mexico, their prices should not be affected by the trade war. I can understand the price of soybean, corn and sorghum going down, but rice? Why? I don't want to sound insulting, but to most Asian, American rice is ugh. We'll eat it only if we absolutely have no other option. Even my Midwest blonde wife would not eat American rice. She prefers Jasmine, Basmanti or Koshihikari.

ahahahahh, you think when other veggie prices go up there will not be an opportunity for all produce prices to go up hiding behind tariffs.

A given company might decide that a 25% increase in one product effected by the tariffs is too much and they will instead increase 5 products 5% each to make up the difference and spread out the pain.

a supermarket might buy 10 items from us producers and 10 from foreign supplies. they could either raise prices on 10 a lot of 20 a lot less and give the overall impression prices are not rising too much.

[Flower Milk]

Nah man, Christian punishment is too benign.

Let's ask the Greek gods for ideas how to punish wicked rulers.

I'm not so sure on that one, I'm pretty sure their remedy was usually human sacrifices lol.

[PC2]

Lets be honest here, Iraq under Saddam was far better then what it is today and same goes to Libya under Qaddafi.

"They failed either because they didn't choose good policies or because of violent people."
Yeah...press X for doubt

That doesn't mean democracy caused that. Whatever policy they had before could have been continued, but continued better with the consent of the people.

So... 25% on oil until Saudi Arabia becomes a liberal democracy?

Understood, the difference is that only China represents a rival hegemon. If Saudi Arabia was 15x bigger then we would also have to worry about what they would do with power. Probably spread a lot of religious insanity.

[Pannonian]

That doesn't mean democracy caused that. Whatever policy they had before could have been continued, but continued better with the consent of the people.



Understood, the difference is that only China represents a rival hegemon. If Saudi Arabia was 15x bigger then we would also have to worry about what they would do with power. Probably spread a lot of religious insanity.

So it's not really about becoming a liberal democracy, but rather liberal democracy is a tool to shut down a rival?

[PC2]

So it's not really about becoming a liberal democracy, but rather liberal democracy is a tool to shut down a rival?

No lol, it would allow China to be far more prosperous than they are now with state authoritarianism. They could be the center of human progress, they could export culture. Right now they can't do that because they aren't even allowed to have a culture that isn't exactly what the government approves of.

[Breccia]

Then it isn't a sustainable business model and the government should buy up the farm land and run it themselves.

So, socialism? Because it's okay to say you want socialism.

[Felya]

This trade war is about the dishonest practices of the Chinese.

Yes, Trump seems to think it is also about correcting trade deficit, and he is wrong here and deserves all the criticism he gets for that. But there is a real reason, too.

Like what? Did China default on billions in loans that the US tax payer had to cover? Did China skirt 10 years of paying taxes? How about we fuck globalization and focus on America? We have plenty of crooks to fill our coffers. #MAGA... wait... am I permitted to use it in this context?

[Breccia]

Lest we forget the big flood that cost Midwest farmers billions of dollars was because of Trump and his idiotic trade war. All that produce would have gone to China but since the trade war, they just sat in storage until they were ruined.

But Thestrawman! Aren't crops in storage insured by the federal government?

And also, how do you feel about leading questions?

[Vash The Stampede]

But you can't just snap your fingers like the US wants and establish democracy in a country that has run on another system that takes decades which is why it always ends up a mess. You cannot copy and paste the American model to every country it simply doesn't work.

You can but nobody has ever copied our democracy. Mostly because the corruption runs so deep in that country in that you couldn't organize proper people to vote for. Also America isn't exactly the best example of a democracy. Look at Trump vs Hillary fiasco. The left blames Russia for interfering with our elections, while the left can't understand that Bernie Sanders was their best choice, but thanks to mainstream media Hillary won because she was given delegates by the party. Even Trump was having some difficulty, but he was so popular the Republicans couldn't sabotage enough of his election. Some democracy we have.

Most of these are food we sell to the Chinese that's why we are now spending billions of dollars to keep farmers afloat, Trump just asked for another 15 billion. We are nearing 30+ billions in farm subsidies and it's not enough to keep them afloat China is now getting these products from other countries. Once those trade lines are established the US will not get it back, we are basically weaning off the Chinese off America and it's costing us billions.

It shouldn't cost us billions because we shouldn't be giving them subsidies to begin with. I like how Trump hates socialism but he doesn't mind giving wealthy people tax payer money. If the price of food is going down in America because of Trumps Tariffs then I don't see a problem with this. Over production is good for the people but bad for businesses. It's not what Trump intended I'm sure, but it's a nice byproduct. I hate Trump just as much as anyone here and I'm looking forward to Bernie Sanders 2020, but the Tariff thing isn't going to do much of anything to main-street. Wall-street is a different story and I really don't care for their bottom line. Trump wants to bring manufacturing jobs to America but Trump is living in the 80's where manufacturing was still mostly done by hand. Today manufacturing is nearly 100% automated with a few overseer's to watch over the machinery.



- - - Updated - - -

So, socialism? Because it's okay to say you want socialism.

What do you call giving businesses tax payer money? Because not socialism thanks to the power of denial?

[rda]

Like what? Did China default on billions in loans that the US tax payer had to cover? Did China skirt 10 years of paying taxes? How about we fuck globalization and focus on America? We have plenty of crooks to fill our coffers. #MAGA... wait... am I permitted to use it in this context?

The Chinese steal IP / trade secrets. They force technology transfers from companies that want to operate in China. They manipulate their currency to benefit their exports. They control imports by having different standards for foreigners than for local companies and by manipulating those standards - that's 100x worse than tariffs. Etc.

[Breccia]

What do you call giving businesses tax payer money?

"Handouts". Or subsidies.

It's a fine line, but there is a difference between "government runs the business" and "government pays for things". For example, the ACA was not socialized medicine: it was "everyone buys insurance". Even Trump's current plan to buy $15 billion worth of crops with taxpayer money isn't socialism -- just a massive handout.

any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

You advocated for the bolded. You were advocating socialism. Handouts that let the owner continue to run the business may or may not be your thing, but, it's not technically socialism.

[breslin]

Tariffs always hurt, but thats irrelevant. Tariffs aren't an economic policy, they are economic leverage to negotiate actual trade deals. The money we will lose on these tariffs is peanuts compared to what China steals from us in IP every year.

[szechuan]

tariffs always hurt, but thats irrelevant.

LMAO

[Kiri]

Tariffs always hurt, but thats irrelevant. Tariffs aren't an economic policy, they are economic leverage to negotiate actual trade deals. The money we will lose on these tariffs is peanuts compared to what China steals from us in IP every year.

Tbh, tariffs can be both. You can use tariffs on other countries as an economic policy to promote your own industries, and countries often do that. But they can also be used as a political tool to force another country into compliance, being essentially weaker versions of sanctions. They come with much the same caveats as sanctions, too. Especially in this case. You said it yourself, the damage inflicted by tariffs is peanuts compared to what the US wants China to give up on. The US would have to go even harder to really force compliance, but that would also hurt the US more. This isn't like Iran where you can just sanction everything for minimal cost, due to it being a relatively small trading partner.

[Vash The Stampede]

"Handouts". Or subsidies.

It's a fine line, but there is a difference between "government runs the business" and "government pays for things". For example, the ACA was not socialized medicine: it was "everyone buys insurance". Even Trump's current plan to buy $15 billion worth of crops with taxpayer money isn't socialism -- just a massive handout.

Good, then I'm sure Trump and Republicans don't have a problem with Medicare for All then.

You advocated for the bolded. You were advocating socialism. Handouts that let the owner continue to run the business may or may not be your thing, but, it's not technically socialism.

Then I guess you're for "handouts" for about $1k per month for every American. It'll let people to continue to run their lives.

[Felya]

The Chinese steal IP / trade secrets. They force technology transfers from companies that want to operate in China. They manipulate their currency to benefit their exports. They control imports by having different standards for foreigners than for local companies and by manipulating those standards - that's 100x worse than tariffs. Etc.

Oh... you mean they do the whole ‘China first’? Why don’t we have politicians that are willing to say the same about America? Where is the ‘America first’ president? Is it because if we looked inward at corruption, the man holding the highest office in US would have a major problem? As I said, we have plenty of crooks in US that default on billion dollar loans and don’t pay taxes for a decade. It seems like we can fix a lot of shit by focusing on America, instead of trying to strong arm China to be more welcoming to globalization.

[Breccia]

Then I guess you're for "handouts" for about $1k per month for every American..

You're going to have to explain where you came up with that premise and more specifically that number.