Benthic Preview, Forbes Interview - Rise of Azshara, WoW Classic Hit Table Feedback

[Alcsaar]

Ho.....how is this any different than azerite gear?

You're going to have people that get super lucky and get awesome benefits and then people who get incredibly unlucky with trash useless benefits. Its like legendaries all over again.


On top of that you once again have to upgrade gear with azerite power (aka pearls but we have to implement a new system so that you have to start from scratch again).

AP system was bad in Legion, it was still bad in BFA, and now you're reintroducing the same mechanic again IN THE SAME expansion - but this time its not character bound, its gear bound, so its even worse.

Its looking like I will be remaining unsubbed for probably the rest of BFA. I'm not exactly disappointed. I was more disappointed when I was actually paying and trying to enjoy BFA despite hating the same mechanics I hated in Legion but for some unknown reason got recycled again.

[Sarnaxxx]

You have a really weird remembrance of classic if that's what you think.

You had one shadow priest for Shadoweaving to buff your locks.
Balance wasn't required, but it did provide Spell crit so it was nice to have.
Rogues were the best single target dps in the game and easily 4-5 were taken to every raid.

Only thing you even got right was Warriors were the only full raid tank, but even that isn't entirely true. We used Druids to tank during ZG to negate some mechanics and, while not perfect, Paladins COULD tank dungeons.

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Same thing with FFXI, group or die.

WoW was super casual at the time, could level completely solo, had a HUGE emphasis on questing to level and very little grinding, you didn't lose XP when you died, etc etc.

You are correct. In vanilla, we had a reasonably good raiding guild put together. We had at least one shadow priest most raids, plenty of rogues for DPS, a warrior tank, a druid tank and a prot pally tank.. yes, the paladin was able to tank everything in vanilla that we ever faced... if memory serves me, we cleared everything up to Naxx and 2 or 3 of the wings in Naxx... never made it to Sindragosa or Kel'thazad.

[Alcsaar]

You are correct. In vanilla, we had a reasonably good raiding guild put together. We had at least one shadow priest most raids, plenty of rogues for DPS, a warrior tank, a druid tank and a prot pally tank.. yes, the paladin was able to tank everything in vanilla that we ever faced... if memory serves me, we cleared everything up to Naxx and 2 or 3 of the wings in Naxx... never made it to Sindragosa or Kel'thazad.

The thing is, just because you bring ONE spec doesn't mean its good. We're talking one shadow priest out of 30ish DPS in 40 man raids. ONE moonkin. ONE feral druid.

Just because you CAN clear with a prot paladin or bear doesn't mean its a good tank; it just means its passable if the raid picks up the slack.

Then you compare it to the 10-15 mages/warlocks/etc and 10-15 warriors/rogues/etc.

Hybrid dps is the laughing stock of vanilla once you meet the very low niche requirements.

[Onikaroshi]

The thing is, just because you bring ONE spec doesn't mean its good. We're talking one shadow priest out of 30ish DPS in 40 man raids. ONE moonkin. ONE feral druid.

Then you compare it to the 10-15 mages/warlocks/etc and 10-15 warriors/rogues/etc.

Hybrid dps is the laughing stock of vanilla once you meet the very low niche requirements.

No, but those ONE shadow priest or ONE moonkin or feral were very beneficial, almost required in some instances.

Only real outlier though was warriors.... 9-10 warriors minimum per raid, warriors were fucking OP in vanilla.

[Donald Hellscream]

Ho.....how is this any different than azerite gear?

You're going to have people that get super lucky and get awesome benefits and then people who get incredibly unlucky with trash useless benefits. Its like legendaries all over again.


On top of that you once again have to upgrade gear with azerite power (aka pearls but we have to implement a new system so that you have to start from scratch again).

AP system was bad in Legion, it was still bad in BFA, and now you're reintroducing the same mechanic again IN THE SAME expansion - but this time its not character bound, its gear bound, so its even worse.

Its looking like I will be remaining unsubbed for probably the rest of BFA. I'm not exactly disappointed. I was more disappointed when I was actually paying and trying to enjoy BFA despite hating the same mechanics I hated in Legion but for some unknown reason got recycled again.

You are horribly misinformed. This is not at all similar to the legendary system, each equipment slot has a bonus assigned to them, so all you need to do is buy the correct equipment slot for the bonus you want, now they should probably add the bonus to the token tool tip for the sake of clarity but if people are too lazy to look up stuff online then that is kinda their problem and not blizzards.

[Softbottom]

This is my favorite comment regarding unlocking the story - "Using reputation thresholds to advance the story feels better than rigid weekly chapters that you have to just wait until next week to unlock. There's something the player can do to speed it up."

How can we speed it up when you only give us a limited amount of WQ's to gain rep? The story is still gated no matter how you cut it.

[ryanmahaffe]

Bethnic Armor reminds me of enhancement systems found in many korean mmorpgs but without the RNG and p2w aspect, so I am looking forward to having something to grind.

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This is my favorite comment regarding unlocking the story - "Using reputation thresholds to advance the story feels better than rigid weekly chapters that you have to just wait until next week to unlock. There's something the player can do to speed it up."

How can we speed it up when you only give us a limited amount of WQ's to gain rep? The story is still gated no matter how you cut it.

This is how it has always been and what people have been asking for. Rep gated story content instead of time gated story content.
Sheesh I don't like BFA either but some of yall just try to bitch about it nonstop.

[Softbottom]

Bethnic Armor reminds me of enhancement systems found in many korean mmorpgs but without the RNG and p2w aspect, so I am looking forward to having something to grind.

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This is how it has always been and what people have been asking for. Rep gated story content instead of time gated story content.
Sheesh I don't like BFA either but some of yall just try to bitch about it nonstop.

Rep gated story content IS time gated content. There are only so many WQ's you can do to raise your rep.

[glowpipe]

"There are definitely specs on the radar for a rework, but nothing to announce now"

No shit. Every single class and spec needs a rework. They need new abilities and skills.

Now when you level a new toon you go from the last talent at 100 and level 20 levels in a row without getting a single thing. That needs to change sooner rather then later

[Frozenbeef]

Jesus wish they would release the next patch already so we can move onto something more interesting. Don't know how they managed to make azshara and her story so boring and predictable but they managed it...

[glowpipe]

This is my favorite comment regarding unlocking the story - "Using reputation thresholds to advance the story feels better than rigid weekly chapters that you have to just wait until next week to unlock. There's something the player can do to speed it up."

How can we speed it up when you only give us a limited amount of WQ's to gain rep? The story is still gated no matter how you cut it.

Might be something repeatable you can do. Farming mobs, tokens of some sort. etc

[TheRevenantHero]

You have a really weird remembrance of classic if that's what you think.

You had one shadow priest for Shadoweaving to buff your locks.
Balance wasn't required, but it did provide Spell crit so it was nice to have.
Rogues were the best single target dps in the game and easily 4-5 were taken to every raid.

Only thing you even got right was Warriors were the only full raid tank, but even that isn't entirely true. We used Druids to tank during ZG to negate some mechanics and, while not perfect, Paladins COULD tank dungeons.

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Same thing with FFXI, group or die.

WoW was super casual at the time, could level completely solo, had a HUGE emphasis on questing to level and very little grinding, you didn't lose XP when you died, etc etc.

I never once saw shadow priests get taken to raids. Because of the debuff limit. Balance's spell crit buff was never enough to convince anyone to take them. rogues were often turned away form raids because they didn't have a reliable aggro dump.

[Soeroah]

This is my favorite comment regarding unlocking the story - "Using reputation thresholds to advance the story feels better than rigid weekly chapters that you have to just wait until next week to unlock. There's something the player can do to speed it up."

How can we speed it up when you only give us a limited amount of WQ's to gain rep? The story is still gated no matter how you cut it.

In BFA:

-Anniversary token
-Some holiday buffs
-Darkmoon Fair buff
-Human racial
-Missions
-Possibly rep tokens

All those can increase the speed of story gain, if the story is gated by rep. If the story is gated by time, though, you're just SOL.

Rep-based story is still gated but it's based on player progression instead of not playing the game.

[Zenfoldor]

Who are these players that hate class changes? Honestly, complexity and adaptation are the things I look for in a video game. Games like Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma, and any MMO pretty much(even WoW with a new class/spec), gives you so many options and it is fun to change them out and experiment with them, and learn new things, and enjoy that depth of gameplay.

Who is quitting games because they are too complex? Is this a mobile game? Who leaves the game for 6 months and comes back and quits because they got a buff? This is a PC-only-game, it should be MORE complex than games on other platforms, considering it is also a MMO. Revamps are meant to fix broken things, I assume. Do these players want to keep playing broken specs?

Also, can these people who are holding up class redesigns by quitting be reasoned with? Can they just add a popup when they haven't logged in for 6 months that says "we buffed your class, it was broken, but it may play differently, here is 2 weeks game time to help you get accustomed to the new abilities" or something. I mean, if this really is the case, aren't these people who are protest quitting over class changes, and forcing the rest of us to wait years for these important changes, effectively hurting the game and the fans who understand the necessity for these changes?

What about people from Legion who come back to play BFA and see their class has drastically changed, and desperately needs a revamp? I could definitely see that scenario play out more than the scenario mentioned above.

[Sevvy]

The whole 3 months thing is such nonsense. Maybe if you only get to play 1 hour each day or something.

I think the record is 5 or 6 days played to 60. Fastest I ever managed was just a hair under 10. That's close to 240 hours to get to level 60. So... 1 hour a day for 3 months probably isn't getting you to 60.


Ahhh, I'm a little wrong, speed player did it in under 5.

https://www.furiouspaul.com/wow/

But that's all this guy does. Speed runs to lvl 60.

[Onikaroshi]

I never once saw shadow priests get taken to raids. Because of the debuff limit. Balance's spell crit buff was never enough to convince anyone to take them. rogues were often turned away form raids because they didn't have a reliable aggro dump.

Later raids (bwl aq naxx) one shadow or a "support priest" with shadow weaving was a huge benefit. Balance was always questionable but there was a reason some took them.

And your rogue comment is just silly, every raid had an average of 4-5 rogues, and since when is vanish not reliable? Sure it was a 5 min cool down but it was more reliable then what mages had

[Laqweeta]

In BFA:

-Anniversary token
-Some holiday buffs
-Darkmoon Fair buff
-Human racial
-Missions
-Possibly rep tokens

All those can increase the speed of story gain, if the story is gated by rep. If the story is gated by time, though, you're just SOL.

Rep-based story is still gated but it's based on player progression instead of not playing the game.

I've bold the only one that doesn't need anything special, nor does it take a 20 hour "mission" to get a measly 250 rep.

[Nathiest]

I haven't played in months.... a year maybe? I got only one max lvl toon.

Rise will bring me back to the game, I might even lvl up some of my alts??

[Walross]

Blizzard think WoW players are literal retards. It's as simple as that

They aren't wrong. This forum is a proof of that.

Don't know how they managed to make azshara and her story so boring and predictable but they managed it...

BfA is still Warcraft, so no surprises here.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

This is my favorite comment regarding unlocking the story - "Using reputation thresholds to advance the story feels better than rigid weekly chapters that you have to just wait until next week to unlock. There's something the player can do to speed it up."

How can we speed it up when you only give us a limited amount of WQ's to gain rep? The story is still gated no matter how you cut it.

They did the same thing back in mop, realistically rather it’s rep based or time based it’s the same people just feel like the rep thresholds are better when in reality they are worse.

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In BFA:

-Anniversary token
-Some holiday buffs
-Darkmoon Fair buff
-Human racial
-Missions
-Possibly rep tokens

All those can increase the speed of story gain, if the story is gated by rep. If the story is gated by time, though, you're just SOL.

Rep-based story is still gated but it's based on player progression instead of not playing the game.

On paper this sounds good but on practice it’s really not a benefit. Being able to boost your rep gains by minor things like the human racial won’t really get you to the next story point any faster until your near the end and all the little bits have added up. Then you have alts, if you want to get something at the end of a rep gated story you have to do the whole rep all over again compared to the soly times based system where you can just go though the storyline when it’s all unlocked.