(Loot Box's) Number of child gamblers quadruples in just two years....

[Jtbrig7390]

Exactly my point. Though ESRB in the specific doesn't mean nothing since stuff like GTA is consistently bought by parents to their 10yo children.

Ya but at that point the fault is on the parent.

I can't count the many times I have had a parent and a kid come in the store this month alone and try to get GTAV. I explain to the parent what is actually in the game and they outright refuse to buy it.

I also show them the ESRB rating on the back and how it details what is in the game.

But ya lots of parents are idiots but like I said that's no excuse for company's to exploit that fact.

All I want is a 18+ rating added onto games that has Loot Box MTX's.

[Onikaroshi]

Thing with app store is the default is to require a password for EVERY purchase, so really it's the parents fault if the kid ran up charges on something like Google play, except for rare instances where Google fucks up the settings.

[Orange Joe]

Ya but at that point the fault is on the parent.

I can't count the many times I have had a parent and a kid come in the store this month alone and try to get GTAV. I explain to the parent what is actually in the game and they outright refuse to buy it.

I also show them the ESRB rating on the back and how it details what is in the game.

But ya lots of parents are idiots but like I said that's no excuse for company's to exploit that fact.

All I want is a 18+ rating added onto games that has Loot Box MTX's.

So if a kid takes their parents card and buys a couple things on Amazon. Whose fault is it? Should amazon have a warning on their site for all their products?

[nekobaka]

Thing with app store is the default is to require a password for EVERY purchase, so really it's the parents fault if the kid ran up charges on something like Google play, except for rare instances where Google fucks up the settings.

Would me nice if we could add a pin for any online purchase on a card. For all the security being added to physical store fronts the online is still lacking. Would help reduce cases of fraudulent cards used in cases where an account cannot or is not locked down.

[Onikaroshi]

Would me nice if we could add a pin for any online purchase on a card. For all the security being added to physical store fronts the online is still lacking. Would help reduce cases of fraudulent cards used in cases where an account cannot or is not locked down.

I know visa was doing something like that for awhile, but don't know if they still do.

[Castration]

shitty parents, simple.

[Coldkil]

So if a kid takes their parents card and buys a couple things on Amazon. Whose fault is it? Should amazon have a warning on their site for all their products?

Apples and oranges. This example is the kid stealing the card (hence knows what he's doing) or parents not watching him. Also, it's an online shop and it's not some sort of gambling scam like in videogames. There are actually mail and app notification on every single order made so until the kid his using his own account the parents are notified. And there are automatic notifications for payments done with the credit card. So it's not like the kid doesn't know what is doing and the parents have plenty of ways to know it.

No one is taking blame away from the parents. They should pay attention to what their kids do and inform themselves.

However, video game companies are equally at fault since this situation is diffused and well known, and they are actively exploting it targeting vulnerable subjects to rake as much money as possible.

[Krastyn]

Apples and oranges. This example is the kid stealing the card (hence knows what he's doing) or parents not watching him.

So in the case of video games, how did the kid get the credit card? It's either stolen, or the parents are oblivious

Also, it's an online shop and it's not some sort of gambling scam like in videogames.

Not all MTX are gambling. Many of the recent examples in the BBC link reflect that. They are literally an online shop.

There are actually mail and app notification on every single order made so until the kid his using his own account the parents are notified.

App stores also mail you when you order anything. Yet it seems some parents are oblivious to this. Or maybe it is also really easy to set up an account and use your own email address instead of your parents.

And there are automatic notifications for payments done with the credit card. So it's not like the kid doesn't know what is doing and the parents have plenty of ways to know it.

There are automatic notifications for many MTX as well.

You're doing a really bad job at showing how they are different.

[Jtbrig7390]

So in the case of video games, how did the kid get the credit card? It's either stolen, or the parents are oblivious

You do realize you can buy Loot Box's without using a Debt or Credit Card right?

[Coldkil]

-snip-

Nice job in nitpicking my post and taking out the actual part where i say that i agree that parents are to blame.

It's still not the same. Videogames are targeted to a specific demographic, an online shop that sells everything it's not the same thing. Companies exploit the situation everyone is pointing out (parents being bad). Again, parents being bad doesn't mean companies aren't responsible for what they are willingly doing well knowing the situation.

[Popastique]

You do realize you can buy Loot Box's without using a Debt or Credit Card right?

Does it really matter? In the end it is parents' fault for not watching over their kids and giving them a way to dump some money right into the trash bin.

[Orange Joe]

Apples and oranges. This example is the kid stealing the card (hence knows what he's doing) or parents not watching him. Also, it's an online shop and it's not some sort of gambling scam like in videogames. There are actually mail and app notification on every single order made so until the kid his using his own account the parents are notified. And there are automatic notifications for payments done with the credit card. So it's not like the kid doesn't know what is doing and the parents have plenty of ways to know it.

No one is taking blame away from the parents. They should pay attention to what their kids do and inform themselves.

However, video game companies are equally at fault since this situation is diffused and well known, and they are actively exploting it targeting vulnerable subjects to rake as much money as possible.

? Thats what most people have been talking about.

[Coldkil]

? Thats what most people have been talking about.

Again, focusing on the wrong part of the post. I'm not dismissing parents' faults, i just say that companies are equally responsible of exploting a well known situation of vulnerable targets.

[Krastyn]

You do realize you can buy Loot Box's without using a Debt or Credit Card right?

And how is the kid getting the thousands to buy game cards or other means? Amazon also has different payment methods other than debit or credit. Shocking, I know.

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Nice job in nitpicking my post and taking out the actual part where i say that i agree that parents are to blame.

I'm nitpicking your post because you're generally saying that video game companies are equally to blame. If you want to talk about flashy loot box mechanics, maybe. If you're talking about buying extra lives in Candy Crush? Then hell fucking no. Either you ignored or didn't read the BBC article that restarted the dormant thread, as over half the "complaints" from parents did not involve

It's still not the same. Videogames are targeted to a specific demographic, an online shop that sells everything it's not the same thing. Companies exploit the situation everyone is pointing out (parents being bad). Again, parents being bad doesn't mean companies aren't responsible for what they are willingly doing well knowing the situation.

You do realize that from sources like this, this,, or this, the vast majority (70%+) of gamers are over 18. The number goes higher if you go to 16. If you want to point out that video games are exploiting children, that's their target focus, and the source of a significant portion of their revenue, then please back that up.

More importantly, aside from trying to assign blame, what is your solution?

[Coldkil]

I'm nitpicking your post because you're generally saying that video game companies are equally to blame. If you want to talk about flashy loot box mechanics, maybe. If you're talking about buying extra lives in Candy Crush? Then hell fucking no. Either you ignored or didn't read the BBC article that restarted the dormant thread, as over half the "complaints" from parents did not involve.

You do realize that from sources like this, this,, or this, the vast majority (70%+) of gamers are over 18. The number goes higher if you go to 16. If you want to point out that video games are exploiting children, that's their target focus, and the source of a significant portion of their revenue, then please back that up.

More importantly, aside from trying to assign blame, what is your solution?

There's where we disagree. Extra lives in Candy Crush are provided because the levels are specifically designed to make you waste them and try and pry onto you until you cave in - it's something me and you won't ever do, but uninformed/vulnerable people will do and will end in a downward spiral.

My point (which you are free to disagree with) is that the nature of the microtransaction is not something that makes an actual difference in who is to blame. The issue lays in the fact that games are being designed with this in mind, and they are actively trying to exploit the situation knowing well that they are targeting vulnerable people to make money ignoring all negative consequences they are willingly ignoring.

Also, i never mentioned minor age, as targets are just vulnerable people of any age. The usual case is a kid/minor doing stuff with parents not knowing, but i'd like to see ho many adults are actually hooked to games and spend thousands of dollars on MTX; having the money doesn't mean you're able to manage it and that who designed the MTX scheme isn't predating on it and your poor judgement.

My solution is to make all microtransactions disappear. Games worked well without them, expansions are not an issue; DLCs are a kind of grey territory since it's way too easy to merge up a bunch of cosmetics and call it DLC and price it way too much - look at DoA 5 and 6, it's literally a game built for people to buy more than 1k (nearly 2k $ IIRC) in skins and characters. I'm not really against cosmetics shops like in PoE but i'm ready to see them disappear if this means all MTX go away.

To me, someone playing Candy Crush and telling me he needs to buy lives to proceed is simply not smart enough to realize they're milking more money out of him the more time he plays.

(PS, i'm really liking this discussion. There's no point in talking with someone who just agrees as i wouldn't be able to see flaws in my ideas or look at the issue rom another point of view).

[Jtbrig7390]

Does it really matter? In the end it is parents' fault for not watching over their kids and giving them a way to dump some money right into the trash bin.

Yes it does matter and just because a Parent is being "bad" doesn't ok company's exploiting kids. Both are at fault, That's a concept people like you seem to not get.

[Popastique]

Yes it does matter and just because a Parent is being "bad" doesn't ok company's exploiting kids. Both are at fault, That's a concept people like you seem to not get.

Exploiting kids? In what way? If a parent can't teach their kid to be smart and avoid such tiny problem as *lootboxes in video games*, what will happen to that kid later on? Shifting blame due to bad parenting is not a way out.

[Kumorii]

Even though I understand the gambling part with loot boxes and the arguments against it. I can't help but feel like this angle of exploiting kids is correct. I can't help but blame the parents 100% on this. Why would they give credit card access to a kid they obviously haven't taught what money is?

I understood quite early the value of money but even then my mom would never give me full blown access to her credit card. If there was something I wanted I had to ask her and she approved it.

[Jtbrig7390]

Exploiting kids? In what way? If a parent can't teach their kid to be smart and avoid such tiny problem as *lootboxes in video games*, what will happen to that kid later on? Shifting blame due to bad parenting is not a way out.

How is it shifting blame when I say both is at fault?

Its Exploiting because its getting kids hooked on them because they are gambling. Its gambling in games catered towards kids and why would a parent think that a sports game rated E (for everyone) would have actual gambling in it?

Its company's exploiting ignorant and its harmful to kids.

Once again BOTH are at fault and all the company has to do is slap a 18+ rating on the box or you know....remove the fucken gambling.

Want to know how kids are being exploited, Read the OP,Watch the videos that go into detail that's been posted in the thread.

- - - Updated - - -

Even though I understand the gambling part with loot boxes and the arguments against it. I can't help but feel like this angle of exploiting kids is correct. I can't help but blame the parents 100% on this. Why would they give credit card access to a kid they obviously haven't taught what money is?

I understood quite early the value of money but even then my mom would never give me full blown access to her credit card. If there was something I wanted I had to ask her and she approved it.

You can buy loot box's without Credit or Debt cards.......

[Kumorii]

You can buy loot box's without Credit or Debt cards.......

Game cards? Sure... explain how kids can empty parents credit cards and bank accounts with those. Unless they have access to their credit cards.

Kids getting money and learning the value of money is all on the parents... No ifs or buts about it.