The Worgen - Goblin monk (8.2.5)

[AeneasBK]

Sunwalkers? Ok, let's have Goblin Paladins then. They can have an AOE healing spell called "Golden Shower."

Eww. Although the idea of consecrate gfx being a glowing puddle of gold coins instead of the yellow lava stuff it had (has?) makes me giggle

[Destinas]

The Draenei starting zone isn't "locked" in TBC lore. All those wounded there could still be people that suffered much worse injuries than the others had. It's one possible reasoning.

Yeah it pretty much is. All of the quests there have not changed since Burning Crusade, thus why I said it was stuck in BC lore. And, as I mentioned before, Mojo Stormstout was there when the Exodar crashed, because he mentions that himself as if it's a recent thing. That wasn't at all conjecture on my part.

I'm just walking along, cataloging the local wildlife here in Azuremyst, when suddenly... BAM! <Mojo mimicks an explosion with his hands.> I don't think I've ever heard an explosion that loud in my life!

And when player monks would approach him, they were talked about as survivors of the Exodar crash.

Mojo Stormstout says: But, I am a master fighter, with extensive knowledge of this world's flora and fauna. Surely I can help?
Vindicator Aldar says: No - this is our problem, we must deal with it ourselves.
Vindicator Aldar says: But, here comes another survivor. Seems good with their hands... maybe you can teach them your fighting skills?
Mojo Stormstout says: Of course! It would be an honor.

It's expected of players to suspend their disbelief in that regard. He was meant to be there the whole time.

Kalimdor is a huge continent. Kezan, just a small island. Much harder to find by wandering. On top of that, look at the lifestyle of Kezan: that is the exact place that has no interest in the teachings and lifestyle of the monk.

It's actually not entirely odd. Chinley Chang enjoys being around Goblin machinery and finds it relaxing.

Some think it strange, but I find the rhythmic sound of goblin machinery to be quite relaxing.

The smell, however, I could do without.

And, as I said before, we've seen plenty of examples of races that could later be monks without any sort of prior lore connecting them to peace and harmony. Some were connected through the brewmaster spec (like Dwarves/Dark Irons, Vrykul, Nightborne, Kul Tirans, etc), while others were monks simply because they punched and kicked (Lefty, Eramas Brightblaze, Geness Half-Soul, etc).

Only humans (Scarlet Monk, Argent Monk, Crimson Monk, Condemned Monk), undead (Risen Monk), and Draenei (Auchenai Monk) had any sort of religious/spiritual connection with their monk training before Pandaren and the Monk class were introduced. Yet, every race (excluding Worgen, Goblins, and Lightforged) can be Monks if they so choose - and even then, by that logic, Lightforged should automatically be Monks due to their spiritualistic teachings and the ancient art of Jed'hin being a part of Argus' history, before any Draenei fled.

As far as Kezan being a tiny island, it's also a major trade hub open to all due to the Undermine in lore. There are also Pandaren Monk trainers in all sorts of (lore-wise) remote areas, like Sunstrider Isle, Aldrassil, Deathknell, and the aforementioned Azuremyst Isle.

Not the same kind. The monks that existed in WoW before MoP were of the western kind: the pious and religious. Not the "martial arts and meditation" type that is the oriental kind of monk. Gilneas, pre-Cata, were quite the unwelcoming nation, to the point of sealing themselves off with that wall. I doubt they'd allow a pandaren in.

In WoW that doesn't really matter at all. Monks are monks in WoW lore - take a look at any of the abilities of the people I listed above. They all use punches and kicks, being called a Monk, same as players. That's why when Brother Korloff was added in the revamped Scarlet Monastery in MoP, they gave him fiery versions of playable Monk abilities - he also teaches the other Scarlet Monks in Scarlet Monastery. And, as mentioned before, some are simply "brewmasters" that have absolutely nothing to do with harmony and martial arts. It doesn't really matter that playable Monks have abilities based off of the August Celestials and other Pandaria/Pandaren themes, because in the end it's simply a brewmaster/martial arts class that can absolutely fit with any playable race.

[Kyphael]

Eww. Although the idea of consecrate gfx being a glowing puddle of gold coins instead of the yellow lava stuff it had (has?) makes me giggle

If my goblin can jump into it like Scrooge McDuck then I'm all for it.

[Ielenia]

Yeah it pretty much is. All of the quests there have not changed since Burning Crusade, thus why I said it was stuck in BC lore. And, as I mentioned before, Mojo Stormstout was there when the Exodar crashed, because he mentions that himself as if it's a recent thing. That wasn't at all conjecture on my part.

And when player monks would approach him, they were talked about as survivors of the Exodar crash.

It's expected of players to suspend their disbelief in that regard. He was meant to be there the whole time.

I think the sole existence of the pandaren there shows that the draenei starting zone is not "locked in time". The reason it wasn't updated in Cataclysm was because the draenei and blood elf zones are not part of the "base game" servers. Not because it's "locked in time".

It's actually not entirely odd. Chinley Chang enjoys being around Goblin machinery and finds it relaxing.

I never said a pandaren would not enjoy being there, I'm saying the goblins of Kezan would have little to no interest or use for the teachings and lifestyle of the monk.

And, as I said before, we've seen plenty of examples of races that could later be monks without any sort of prior lore connecting them to peace and harmony. Some were connected through the brewmaster spec (like Dwarves/Dark Irons, Vrykul, Nightborne, Kul Tirans, etc), while others were monks simply because they punched and kicked (Lefty, Eramas Brightblaze, Geness Half-Soul, etc).

Only humans (Scarlet Monk, Argent Monk, Crimson Monk, Condemned Monk), undead (Risen Monk), and Draenei (Auchenai Monk) had any sort of religious/spiritual connection with their monk training before Pandaren and the Monk class were introduced. Yet, every race (excluding Worgen, Goblins, and Lightforged) can be Monks if they so choose - and even then, by that logic, Lightforged should automatically be Monks due to their spiritualistic teachings and the ancient art of Jed'hin being a part of Argus' history, before any Draenei fled.

Um.... "monk" isn't about religiosity.

As far as Kezan being a tiny island, it's also a major trade hub open to all due to the Undermine in lore. There are also Pandaren Monk trainers in all sorts of (lore-wise) remote areas, like Sunstrider Isle, Aldrassil, Deathknell, and the aforementioned Azuremyst Isle.

They're still part of the mainland. And Azuremyst is also close enough to the mainland as well, unlike Kezan that was in the middle of nowhere.

[Syegfryed]

Right, tertiary character. Familiarize yourself with the term. Protagonist and support he is not.

dude familiarize with the lore before talking like this, he already had a role similar to Gallywix, and its most than enough.

That's the definition of a druid.

no its not, let me try to make more clear for you

he use arcane magic to emulate nature magic, he don't rly use pure nature magic

Undead and Void Elves, right? Clearly you should be writing the lore and making all the decisions. Tell Ion Hazzikostas he's a chump for not implementing Goblin shamans, they're a no-brainer.

no im telling you since its you the one coming with nonsense logic not him

So by that logic, Gnolls can become Monks.

can't see why not

The proof is Goblin monks don't exist in large numbers, there's one token Goblin monk.

you have no proof, you are spiting headcanon, one goblin monk already debunks your entire argument proving they yes can do that.

you are yet to provide a single valid canon information in this thread despise your own personal and wrong point of view, of how goblins cannot be monks, or how they being "greedy" is a point of exclusion when there is other WORSE traints on other races and they can be monks just fine

or where is said that greedy monks cannot exist at all

Based on goblin portrayal in lore.

no, thats yours headcanon

You're the one contradicting yourself. You went from convincing me all goblins could be good monks because Gazlowe is a good guy,

now you are going for the full lying route? i never said all goblins could be good monks, i said there are good goblins and therefore monk goblins could exist from then

to "there's nothing wrong with monks being greedy." You're getting tangled in your own web.

That is also true

2 truths don't make one or another wrong.

there can be good guys monks or greedy monks, however the route blizzard want to take it can happen

Well it's not yet, and it's not on Blizzard's priority list to make Goblin monks, or Worgen monks.

i talking how others minority became playable just fine, they can do with goblins in the future, the point is there is nothing on lore preventing that possibility.

I was wrong one goblin monk existed, you're still wrong that the majority of goblin population aren't shady, greedy and swindlers.

i never said the marjority aren't shady or greed, how can i be wrong about something i never said? stop

I'm sorry, I didn't know about that one token Goblin monk and Gazlowe slipped my mind.

even i who don't "love goblins" like you claim to be, knew about then

Is that why Gallywix gets all the screen time and lore?

Like Gallywix had all the screen time and lore in Mechagon, sure buddy

You citing Gazlowe and the goblin monk is like saying all Stormwind humans are cowards because of Jitters from Duskwood.

no its not, because i never said all goblins are like then, you are attacking points that i never bring up

Daily reminder. Tauren respect the Druid's ancient ways as much as Night elves do. They're not going to waste their time training a disrespectful and greedy self-serving race like goblins.

turens didn't train trolls and trolls give 2 shits about druid's ancient ways of night elves

Including Goblin paladins, AMIRITE?

if you want to be a lawful good goblin paladin i can't see why you could not, i played dnd with one and he was pretty good, like i said, im all for rpgs giving you the liberty to be anything you want, the exception or not

If you have every customization option was available to the players, ROLE-PLAYING wouldn't be necessary

say that to every tabletop rpg like dungeons and dragons and tormenta.

My imaginary division of class/race combos don't work anymore?

yeah because you have zero base of anything

if it made sense to Blizzard, it would be in game. A lone Goblin Monk is not enough evidence it will happen anymore than Blood Elf druids because of the one blood elf druid in the Botany.

bullshit, they can always add the class later like they did with others, you would be one of the guys who would say "it make no sense for trolls to be druids because <headcnaon>" despise amani trolls being basically druids

It's balanced in the way Blizzard makes classes available as what makes sense lore-wise to them,

its not, rly, stop, you are hurting your brain trying to find a logic when there is not, there is no such thing, they already said they add what make sense and ahve nothing to do with balance with the factions, thats why the horde got 2 druids.

Likewise, you can't alter all of Goblin characterization

again, never said i want that.

They don't balance it to a tee, but they provide near balanced choices for both factions

.

or they don't balance the way you think and there is no shit about "goblins already had shamans so no monks" this si something you made up

Are you insane? The same undead to lift swords two times their size to cleave other creatures in twain are going to fall apart from doing a Kung fu strike?

im talking about rotting corpses in the popular media

if they can be monks in wow so do goblins.

You're the one who has to convince me

is like convincing a wall

, Goblins CAN'T be monks in game save for a token character.

they can't not because OF LORE, not because they are greedy or any other thing you made up, they and worgens can't because of the starting zones being heavy tied with he cataclysm event, prior the pandarens arrival

ignoring the fact 90% of goblins are greedy assholes who put profit before something like discipline and the martial arts to serve a purpose greater than profit.

for Christ sake they can be other classes who need the same discipline training and commitment, but monks are no no becuse greeddyyyyy, stop inventing things.

You say that like goblins and Gallywix in particular haven't been depicted as TWO-dimensional. Gazlowe is not as important as you tout him.

second most important goblin in the horde, he is more important you think goblin lover.

It's a partnership of convenience more than gratitude. Thrall hasn't been with the Horde in years.

its for gratitude for saving then, its in their lore, they could left but they didn't deal with it.

Don't need to, Gazlowe does not represent most goblin, including playable goblins.

he don't have to i never said he do

You implied by explaining Monks don't have to live in their temples 24/7 because priests don't hang out in their own halls 24/7.

monks don't have to

Not anymore than your "goblins can be greedy monks" bullshit.

provide fact that evil undead monstrosities can be monks but somehow goblin who like to make money can't, im still waiting, regardless of your personal feeling of fitting or not.

I don't see how Warlocks being social pariahs supports your argument.

they are minority in their societies

who the heck is talking about that? you jumping at strawmaws

I think you're confused. Also, what's a strawmaw?

????
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Which speaks volumes to how important he is considering he has no unique model,

who care? even the leaders have no unique model and they are important

no prominent role as a protagonist or supporting role to a protagonist, isn't featured in cinematics, and is seldom seen but in quest zones as a quest giver. He's as relevant as Hemet Nesingway.

you are being rly indigenous thinking a character need that much to be important, you think he is the hero of the expansion or he is a nobody

and yeah he was featured ins some ingame cinematics :´)

If greed is a defining personality trait of a 2-dimensional gag race, and you take that away, what are they then? Green gnomes.

who want to take away? im just merely pointing out that this is not everything about then

Then by that logic, Goblins can become Monks simply by harnessing their inner spirit. They can't.

[Citation needed]

Monks aren't just shamans without totem

never said they are

Being monks is out of character for them.

but priests and shamans are not, dude, stop your are embarrassing yourself

if they can gamble the fucking elements they can be monks

it doesn't mean they possess the discipline Monk masters look for in pupils until the Goblin race is shown to be even interested, let alone successfully become Monks in lore in numbers comparable to other races.

blablabla,goblins have the capacity to master the monks arts just fine, monks is literally one of the easiest classes to be, if they can have the intelligence, commitment and patience to learn and master the arcane, the warlock ways, the shaman powers and even the priests, they can be monks

I'm accusing them of lacking depth or substance, which they do as a race

again, you love so much the race and yet know so little about then

Satirizing your retorts would be too easy, it's a cheap way to debate with you

im mean try to bring actual evidences and canon information instead of your own personal and wrong point of view

many things i corrected you about the lore in this thread, about goblins, worgens, monks and shamans, you should have stopped 2 pages ago when me and other already debunked your logic.

[Destinas]

I think the sole existence of the pandaren there shows that the draenei starting zone is not "locked in time". The reason it wasn't updated in Cataclysm was because the draenei and blood elf zones are not part of the "base game" servers. Not because it's "locked in time".

I'm going by what he actually says, what the quests are, etc. There's no indication there, anywhere, that any of those quests are meant to take place post-Cataclysm, at all. I understand the mechanics of the situation. We're talking about lore presented there.

I never said a pandaren would not enjoy being there, I'm saying the goblins of Kezan would have little to no interest or use for the teachings and lifestyle of the monk.

In that case, the Dark Irons wouldn't have a need for the teachings of a monk as well, yet they were able to be Monks immediately. Despite the fact that Goblin Monks already exist, they can find a use for any teaching. There's no reason that a Goblin wouldn't be able to be a Monk with their own spin on Monk spiritualistic teachings, similar to how they are Shamans and Priests. They create physical contracts for their elementals instead of communing with them like other Shamans. They charge money to exorcise things as Airborne Priests. Bruisers are a staple of Goblin culture, who could also use the martial arts aspect of the Monk class.

Um.... "monk" isn't about religiosity.

Well if the argument is that Goblins wouldn't have any sort of use for the teachings of a Monk, then it must be the spiritual/religious aspect of the class. Monks are mostly shown to be religious or spiritualistic in WoW, like the examples I showed before - and they are heavily spiritualistic in Pandaria, being tied heavily to the August Celestials. Yet, nearly anyone can become a Monk, even if they, as a race, have other spiritualistic beliefs in the end. As mentioned before, Goblins use spiritualism for profit, which would work quite well with Monk teachings.

The only other aspect to Monks, as mentioned before, that has no religious connotation is the brewmaster. Anyone can learn martial arts, anyone can become a brewmaster - there is Goblin beer as well, so they could lean in heavily on that, creating an alcoholic version of Kaja'Cola.

They're still part of the mainland. And Azuremyst is also close enough to the mainland as well, unlike Kezan that was in the middle of nowhere.

Why does that matter at all? The Wandering Isle is always in the middle of nowhere, yet Pandaren from there were able to find their way to all corners of the world. Kezan isn't some unknown island.

[Kayb]

Yeah they could both be monks

[Ielenia]

I'm going by what he actually says, what the quests are, etc. There's no indication there, anywhere, that any of those quests are meant to take place post-Cataclysm, at all. I understand the mechanics of the situation. We're talking about lore presented there.

Again, the reason the starting zones were not updated is not because they're "locked in time", but because those starting zones are located in TBC servers, not in the main game servers.

In that case, the Dark Irons wouldn't have a need for the teachings of a monk as well, yet they were able to be Monks immediately.

Why wouldn't Dark Irons want monk training? The reason I claimed the goblins of Kezan would not be interested in a monk lifestyle is because all goblins there live a life of luxury and debauchery.

Despite the fact that Goblin Monks already exist, they can find a use for any teaching.

One example does not a rule make. Just because one goblin has shown interest, doesn't mean goblins as a whole would.

There's no reason that a Goblin wouldn't be able to be a Monk with their own spin on Monk spiritualistic teachings, similar to how they are Shamans and Priests. They create physical contracts for their elementals instead of communing with them like other Shamans. They charge money to exorcise things as Airborne Priests. Bruisers are a staple of Goblin culture, who could also use the martial arts aspect of the Monk class.

And what, pray tell, could goblins profit from a monk's teachings and lifestyle?

Well if the argument is that Goblins wouldn't have any sort of use for the teachings of a Monk, then it must be the spiritual/religious aspect of the class. Monks are mostly shown to be religious or spiritualistic in WoW, like the examples I showed before - and they are heavily spiritualistic in Pandaria, being tied heavily to the August Celestials. Yet, nearly anyone can become a Monk, even if they, as a race, have other spiritualistic beliefs in the end. As mentioned before, Goblins use spiritualism for profit, which would work quite well with Monk teachings.

Actually, pandaren aren't religious. Many follow the teachings of the August Celestials, but they don't worship them like they would a god. The Shado-Pan, for example, are not religious.

The only other aspect to Monks, as mentioned before, that has no religious connotation is the brewmaster. Anyone can learn martial arts, anyone can become a brewmaster - there is Goblin beer as well, so they could lean in heavily on that, creating an alcoholic version of Kaja'Cola.

But you don't have to be a monk to be a brewmasters. I mean, look at Brewfest. So many other races that can also make beer, where the goblins could more easily learn than having to go through monk training just to be brewmasters.

[Destinas]

Again, the reason the starting zones were not updated is not because they're "locked in time", but because those starting zones are located in TBC servers, not in the main game servers.

I think you're confused about what I'm saying here. I used the term "stuck in BC" (not "locked in time" as you continue to say - I never once uttered that in the first post you quoted of me) because all of the quests and lore there are from pre-Cata. My only point was that Mojo Stormstout was added there in MoP with lore to show that he had been there since BC, and that that could easily happen with the Goblin starting zone. Yes, I understand why the Draenei/Blood Elf zones were not updated from a technical standpoint, and I acknowledged that in the last post. That has absolutely nothing to do with my point.

If you think that I implied, ever, that there was lore to say that there was some sort of magic keeping those places in BC-era in lore, then you misunderstood me. Gameplay-wise, it is in BC. For all intent and purposes, the Draenei starting zone takes place right after the crash of the Exodar, with Mojo Stormstout's quotes there to solidify that he is not a new addition lore-wise.

Why wouldn't Dark Irons want monk training? The reason I claimed the goblins of Kezan would not be interested in a monk lifestyle is because all goblins there live a life of luxury and debauchery.

We haven't had examples of Dark Irons preaching balance and harmony. They use machines, just the same as Goblins, while being nearly as chaotic. What use would Monk teachings have to them?

One example does not a rule make. Just because one goblin has shown interest, doesn't mean goblins as a whole would.

I agree. It wasn't meant to be a statement that all Goblins would want to become Monks - it was a statement that it's not impossible for Goblins to become Monks at all. If that was the case, most races don't have any named Monks, so by that logic then none of them should be.

For example, I'm not advocating for Pandaren Death Knights en masse, despite the existence of Gravewalker Gie - but if the statement was "It's impossible for Pandaren to become DKs" I would definitely use her as an example.

And what, pray tell, could goblins profit from a monk's teachings and lifestyle?

They could always use more bodyguards, and I already gave the examples of bruisers before. The example of a brewmaster is also there.

Actually, pandaren aren't religious. Many follow the teachings of the August Celestials, but they don't worship them like they would a god. The Shado-Pan, for example, are not religious.

Noted. I wasn't talking about all Pandaren. When I said "and they are heavily spiritualistic in Pandaria" I was specifically talking about Monks. Admittedly, I felt that was more clear, since the subject was about Monks being spiritualistic in WoW.

Also, the Shado-Pan are an amalgamation of Monks, Rogues, Mages, Shamans, etc.

But you don't have to be a monk to be a brewmasters. I mean, look at Brewfest. So many other races that can also make beer, where the goblins could more easily learn than having to go through monk training just to be brewmasters.

That's exactly my point. Goblins don't have to be labeled as the traditional Monks in order to have a larger brewmaster presence. That has often been the case for most niche class-race combinations (like Tauren Paladins, who aren't like the other Paladins at all). It's the exact same for Nightborne monks, who simply have a large alcohol culture, yet they were able to be Monks right away.

[matrix123mko]

Where in history they got arcane education?

1. They lived in Gorian ruins so they could learn a bit.
2. They traded with Draenei so they could learn a bit.
3. Shadowmoon clan practiced stargazing and experimented on celestial magicks a bit.
4. Trolls, blood elves and undead taught them.

[GenericDragon]

I think it's about time for Blizzard to put the work into the game to open up all race/class combinations and provide some of them with unique spell animations and whatnot. Goblin monks could easily be rebranded as a bruiser (as they have those in Booty Bay), a hand to hand combatant that provides some serious smack-down when paid for mercenary work.

Same thing should happen for Tauren Paladins and Priests, with Sun themed magic. And Undead Priests with all shadow themed magic.

"Druidism" for Goblins and Gnomes could simply be mechanical animals like Zoids or Voltron, and Druidism for Pandaran could be based on the four spirits. Everything has a possible reason, and it would add some more much needed customization the game lacks.

[Seyna Starstrider]

I see no reason why Worgen and Goblins should not have monks. They can throw punches, they can learn a martial art. I see it like the Warrior class; anyone can pick up a weapon and learn how to fight with it. What is stopping Worgen and Goblins from learning how to throw a proper punch or kick? Heck, the monk trainer in their starting zones don't even need to be Pandaren. Perhaps Gilnean monks are trained by a famous boxer? Boxing was a thing that existed in Victorian-era Britain, so that's something that can carry over to Gilneas. Goblin monks can get their training from a bruiser.

Also, the Pandaren developed martial arts as a means to fight back against the Mogu who enslaved them. I think the spiritual aspects of being a monk came some time afterward as martial arts became ingrained into Pandaren culture.

[Kyphael]

dude familiarize with the lore before talking like this, he already had a role similar to Gallywix, and its most than enough.

Gazlowe has never had a role so prominent as Gallywix has had in moving the narrative of a story forward. He's consistently featured in quest zones, big deal, so is Hemet Nesingway. You'd be hard pressed to convince anyone he's no tertiary character. He's important to you because he's your token good guy goblin.

no its not, let me try to make more clear for you

he use arcane magic to emulate nature magic, he don't rly use pure nature magic

He's a Botanist. It's not specified whether he uses arcane or nature magic. He's also classified as a Herbalist which doesn't sound like a far cry from druid and might be closer to using nature magic than arcane.

no im telling you since its you the one coming with nonsense logic not him

Yet he's the one who makes the decision in whether you get Goblink monks, and you don't have them because it's not worth his effort.

can't see why not

Not that your argument has ever had much credibility, but saying gnolls can be monks is icing on the cake.

you have no proof, you are spiting headcanon, one goblin monk already debunks your entire argument proving they yes can do that.

One goblin monk is the exception, not the standard.

you are yet to provide a single valid canon information in this thread despise your own personal and wrong point of view, of how goblins cannot be monks, or how they being "greedy" is a point of exclusion when there is other WORSE traints on other races and they can be monks just fine

You keep bringing up other races' negative traits to prop up your "goblins can be any class they want" argument when I've already pointed out goblins are a gag race. Blizzard has no interest in giving them paladins or monks because Blizzard has gone on record before in saying they didn't want to give every race every class combo.

or where is said that greedy monks cannot exist at all

Name one greedy monk. Bear in mind, he/she has to be of comparable immoral scruples like Gallywix and the majority of the goblin race. Ji Firepaw is not your example, so don't even try, he's an extremist but still cares for others besides himself.

no, thats yours headcanon

Goblins are portrayed as greedy swindlers, that's lore, not my head canon. Gallywix is exhibit A. Every Goblin emoticon of the player characters is exhibit B. If you log into your goblin character right now, every joke or flirt will involve gold, money, and profit.

now you are going for the full lying route? i never said all goblins could be good monks, i said there are good goblins and therefore monk goblins could exist from then

Every time I catch you contradicting yourself you backtrack and say "no, I didn't mean it like that, dude!" You made a case that goblins could be good and could be monks, then when I told you goblins are universally greedy save for a handful, then you said monks could be greedy.

That is also true

2 truths don't make one or another wrong.

there can be good guys monks or greedy monks, however the route blizzard want to take it can happen

Name one greedy Monk who notably put profit before his people and his teachings. There is no money to be made from being a Monk, so there is no profit, therefore, goblins have no interest in being Monks. Monks are martial arts masters who focus on using their bodies, fists, meditation, serenity, and being selfless. None of that meshes with goblin culture. Goblins are self-serving and greedy by culture.

i talking how others minority became playable just fine, they can do with goblins in the future, the point is there is nothing on lore preventing that possibility.

Well considering Warcraft Lore is now determined by the game, and they don't exist in-game save one token background character with no story presence or dialogue to speak of, they don't really exist the way you think they even possibly can. Blizzard doesn't seem to care to update their starting zone so you're shit out of luck making a point for them existing in lore.

i never said the marjority aren't shady or greed, how can i be wrong about something i never said? stop

So if the majority are shady and greedy as you admit, why would they lend themselves to Monk teachings which provides nothing for them to make profit off of?

even i who don't "love goblins" like you claim to be, knew about then

All you did was google wow wiki and bust out a couple pictures and citations, and it's hardly enough to prop up your point. I looked up Gazlowe myself, and guess what? Your precious selfless goblin and his workers were paid very well by Thrall in Orgrimmar's construction.

Like Gallywix had all the screen time and lore in Mechagon, sure buddy

Mechagon? You mean Timeless Isle #2? Oh wow, what an important zone and role he played there! I'm sure when people look back on BfA lore, they'll think back to what Gazlowe did in Mechagon, not Queen Azshara, Sylvanas burning down Teldrassil, Siege of Lordaeron or the Faction War. No, they'll remember how Gazlowe realized how PROFITABLE working with the Alliance can be after defeating King Mechagon.

no its not, because i never said all goblins are like then, you are attacking points that i never bring up

You alluded Gazlowe is a living example of potentially good goblins. I refuted he's an exception, not the standard, and that most goblins are more like Gallywix. You didn't refute that other than scream about greedy goblin monks and not all are greedy, some can be good, but then you didn't say they could be, you flip flop and back peddle so much it's hard to keep track.

turens didn't train trolls and trolls give 2 shits about druid's ancient ways of night elves

Yes but trolls respect their own druid way, and if they saw any potential in goblins becoming druids, or goblins demonstrated interest, they'd be druids. But they're not, so your argument is moot. The same can be applied for monks. If goblins showed the aptitude or interest, in lore, to be monks, they'd be monks. Not just one background character insert with no lore to speak of, actual playable characters. You can't be a monk goblin, lore is dictated by game play, and therefore, they can't be monks.

if you want to be a lawful good goblin paladin i can't see why you could not, i played dnd with one and he was pretty good, like i said, im all for rpgs giving you the liberty to be anything you want, the exception or not

Who you met in Dungeons & Dragons has absolutely no importance to this discussion. You can role-play a Gnoll being a paladin until the cows come home, at the end of the day, it's a RPG, and not reality. Goblink monks are not a reality, you have to role-play it in your head, so they don't exist. Save the one token background character which is the holy grail to your argument.

say that to every tabletop rpg like dungeons and dragons and tormenta.

You completely missed my point, but I don't really care about DND or Tormenta. It has no bearing on this discussion.

yeah because you have zero base of anything

That was sarcasm. They're not MY class/race divisions, they're Blizzard's. Learn to love it. You don't have goblin monks.

bullshit, they can always add the class later like they did with others, you would be one of the guys who would say "it make no sense for trolls to be druids because <headcnaon>" despise amani trolls being basically druids

Get back to me when they do, but don't hold your breath. You've lost enough oxygen to your brain discussing this.

Not sure where the Amani trolls bit even came from but most of your blurbs are wild swings from left field.

its not, rly, stop, you are hurting your brain trying to find a logic when there is not, there is no such thing, they already said they add what make sense and ahve nothing to do with balance with the factions, thats why the horde got 2 druids.

And Goblin monks don't make sense. The fact we don't have them available should be indicative enough. And they do take balance into account when selecting class/race combos as far as making sure both factions have comparable crack at roles. Of course, you'll ask me to do long division to make sure every race has equal number of classes divided between them because your brain is wired towards excessive orderliness.

again, never said i want that.

You want non-greedy goblins. You want green gnomes.

or they don't balance the way you think and there is no shit about "goblins already had shamans so no monks" this si something you made up

Yeah but goblins can't be monks, so... good luck proving otherwise.

im talking about rotting corpses in the popular media

I don't care about popular media, we're talking Azerothian Forsaken here. Unless you're using an analogy, there's no relevance of Walking Dead zombies to Forsaken Undead, they're nothing alike.

if they can be monks in wow so do goblins.

Undead are not a joke race. I can't drill this into your head enough. Their racial leader is literally the Warchief of the Horde. Goblins have like TWO notable characters in the history of Warcraft, and that's it. They are a gag race, Undead are actually important to the Horde's story.

is like convincing a wall

Because your argument is weak. I have a hard time believing you could convince a camel to drink water. He'd probably get confused and drown himself.

they can't not because OF LORE, not because they are greedy or any other thing you made up, they and worgens can't because of the starting zones being heavy tied with he cataclysm event, prior the pandarens arrival

Yep, I've brought that up. Numerous times. I added the caveat, "if Blizzard gave a shit about goblin and worgen monks, they'd make the effort of updating the starting zones." They haven't, so they don't, so again, you're shit out of luck making a compelling argument.

for Christ sake they can be other classes who need the same discipline training and commitment, but monks are no no becuse greeddyyyyy, stop inventing things.

Most classes but monks there is profit to be made of. Warriors/Warlocks/Mages can act as mercenaries for hire. Rogues can obviously pick pocket and take assassination jobs. Priests can be healers for hire. How we are introduced to Monks, they are portrayed as disciplined, and patient, albeit some are more extremist, but never selfish and still act on behalf of the better interest of others and themselves, if misguided. Prior to Mists of Pandaria, the Kung Fu Monks as we know them wasn't a class/teachings that had already been whored and trivialized across Azeroth like mage studies. Monks haven't even had expanded lore since Mists, which is now three expansions ago, so we are led to believe that the incarnation as introduced in Mists is still the status quo of Monk training prerequisites and behavior. So until an evil Monk trainer who doesn't give two shits about Monk tradition reveals himself to have been twisting morally-corrupt Monks like Goblins for hire, there's zero indication of the Monk teaching having been perverted to make way for a marginalized class of Monks who don't strictly follow traditions just a few years ago restricted to ONE continent.

[quote]second most important goblin in the horde, he is more important you think goblin lover.[/wquote]

Second most important goblin in the Horde... all three of them!

its for gratitude for saving then, its in their lore, they could left but they didn't deal with it.

Any race can leave either faction at any time they wish, but it would be stupid to do so considering the Goblins of Kezan have no home. They rely on the Horde for safety in numbers. They live in fucking slums. Could they go to Booty Bay? Sure, but the Horde has given them no reason to.

he don't have to i never said he do

He's been your beacon for selfless goblins. Don't back peddle again, now.

monks don't have to

We don't know for sure one way or another, I doubt lore has specified, but ordinarily, Monks who live in temples make their home there. I'm sure they're free to leave, they're not slaves, but Warcraft lore is not so detailed in specifying that.

provide fact that evil undead monstrosities can be monks but somehow goblin who like to make money can't, im still waiting, regardless of your personal feeling of fitting or not.

Undead possess a stronger mental aptitude than goblins. Will of the Forsaken isn't just a pretty talent, it's representative of the race's mental fortitude.

they are minority in their societies

Arrive at a point.

who care? even the leaders have no unique model and they are important

Every racial leader has an unique model. Even supporting characters like Jaina, Nathanos, Katherine Proudmoore, Rexxar, Saurfang, and antagonists like Lady Ashvane have gotten unique models. Gazlowe is about as important as Hemet Nesingway.

you are being rly indigenous thinking a character need that much to be important, you think he is the hero of the expansion or he is a nobody

Indigenous or ingenuous? No, I don't. But protagonists and supporting characters are important to the story because they push the plot forward. Tertiary in-game characters do not, and are not.

and yeah he was featured ins some ingame cinematics :´)

And what did he do or say in it that was of any importance to the story?

who want to take away? im just merely pointing out that this is not everything about then

It is their defining trait and you refuse to accept it, now who's arguing with a wall?

The citation is they CAN'T, because you can't play one.

never said they are

Heavily implied by trivializing shaman philosophy because they share an energy source that is not utilized in the same manner.

but priests and shamans are not, dude, stop your are embarrassing yourself

if they can gamble the fucking elements they can be monks

Gamble the elements? You mean commune, but yeah, they can commune with elements because Thrall likely trained them to, because he either wanted to, or they were interested in it. The same cannot be said for a relationship between the goblins and Pandaren monk trainers, because it does not exist.

blablabla,goblins have the capacity to master the monks arts just fine, monks is literally one of the easiest classes to be, if they can have the intelligence, commitment and patience to learn and master the arcane, the warlock ways, the shaman powers and even the priests, they can be monks

Way to generalize and trivialize the class. You really have no basis for this because I know it doesn't exist in lore. We have no idea what the "easiest" class to master is, but my guess sure as hell wouldn't be Monk, but rather Warrior.

again, you love so much the race and yet know so little about then

Not much to know, you act like such a goblin expert when they're 2-dimensional, have like less than a handful of important characters, and are defined by one personality trait: greed.

many things i corrected you about the lore in this thread, about goblins, worgens, monks and shamans, you should have stopped 2 pages ago when me and other already debunked your logic.

If you had debunked my logic, I would have stopped. You're not doing as good a job as you think you are.

[Ielenia]

We haven't had examples of Dark Irons preaching balance and harmony. They use machines, just the same as Goblins, while being nearly as chaotic. What use would Monk teachings have to them?

They're nowhere near comparable. Dark Irons aren't 'chaotic', but even if they were, that's not what I was talking about. Goblins in Kezan live a life of luxury and debauchery. It has nothing to do with 'using machines' or 'being chaotic'.

I agree. It wasn't meant to be a statement that all Goblins would want to become Monks - it was a statement that it's not impossible for Goblins to become Monks at all. If that was the case, most races don't have any named Monks, so by that logic then none of them should be.

For example, I'm not advocating for Pandaren Death Knights en masse, despite the existence of Gravewalker Gie - but if the statement was "It's impossible for Pandaren to become DKs" I would definitely use her as an example.

I never said it's "impossible" for a goblin to be a monk. I'm saying it's highly unlikely, especially the ones that were currently living in Kezan prior to the world breaking.

They could always use more bodyguards, and I already gave the examples of bruisers before. The example of a brewmaster is also there.

They got the mooks for that:

Hell, even the player goblin has their own private mook.

That's exactly my point. Goblins don't have to be labeled as the traditional Monks in order to have a larger brewmaster presence. That has often been the case for most niche class-race combinations (like Tauren Paladins, who aren't like the other Paladins at all). It's the exact same for Nightborne monks, who simply have a large alcohol culture, yet they were able to be Monks right away.

Then they'd not be "brewmasters" in the sense of a monk brewmaster. They'd be a "brewmaster" in the literal sense: someone that makes beer.

[Syegfryed]

Gazlowe has never had a role so prominent as Gallywix has had

check how i said similar, not the same or equal, similar

He's a Botanist.It's not specified whether he uses arcane or nature magic. He's also classified as a Herbalist which doesn't sound like a far cry from druid and might be closer to using nature magic than arcane.

arcane magic to emulate nature magic, blood elves did all the time

Yet he's the one who makes the decision in whether you get Goblink monks, and you don't have them because it's not worth his effort.

but not because lore like you are saying

Not that your argument has ever had much credibility, but saying gnolls can be monks is icing on the cake.

proof of how they can't please

One goblin monk is the exception, not the standard.

its already refute your argument, and open precedents to more if blizzard wants, so ther eis no such thing of your nonsense arguments of they being greedy

You keep bringing up other races' negative traits to prop up your "goblins can be any class they want" argument when I've already pointed out goblins are a gag race

.


obviously, if you are telling me goblins can't be monks because they have a negative trait, when other races can be monks with worse negative traits show that your argument hold no ground and its a nonsese

Name one greedy monk. Bear in mind, he/she has to be of comparable immoral scruples like Gallywix

why? he don't have too, you are creating impossible scenarios trying to valdiate your opinion.

and the majority of the goblin race

a clss to be playable don't have to be majority of the race, stop saying nonsense

Ji Firepaw is not your example, so don't even try, he's an extremist but still cares for others besides himself.

yes and? your idea of monk is not aligned with Ji personality, or you are going to open more and exceptions but just not for goblins because reasons?

Goblins are portrayed as greedy swindlers, that's lore, not my head canon.

they are portrayed as a race who love money technology and explosives, they can be shrewd, greedy, and ruthless, one of then or all of then, there are examples of goblins both sides of the spectrum and its wrong to just look at one of their characters and make it to define the entire race and individuals.

If you log into your goblin character right now, every joke or flirt will involve gold, money, and profit.

thats because they are supposed to be jokes and things for fun jesus chirst

Every time I catch you contradicting yourself you backtrack and say "no, I didn't mean it like that, dude!" You made a case that goblins could be good and could be monks, then when I told you goblins are universally greedy save for a handful, then you said monks could be greedy.

you have catching nothing since you are making things up, i never said all goblins could be good, i said there are good goblins and they can be monks

Name one greedy Monk who notably put profit before his people and his teachings. There is no money to be made from being a Monk, so there is no profit, therefore, goblins have no interest in being Monks

Are you for real? you can make money from monks? UAHAUEHUEAH dude, read yourself, you are tealing me monks cannot make money from healing others, teaching others peoples how to fight(people do this in real world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), bodyguards, gladiators, brewmasters and so on, you have literally nothing nd you are making the most obnoxious statements.

Monks are martial arts masters who focus on using their bodies, fists, meditation, serenity, and being selfless

Like Ji LEL

None of that meshes with goblin culture. Goblins are self-serving and greedy by culture.

none of those meshes with:
1- Orcs
2- Gnomes
3- Void elves
4- Dark iron dwarves
5- Undeads

yet, they can be, but goblins? no no no

Well considering Warcraft Lore is now determined by the game, and they don't exist in-game save one token background character with no story presence or dialogue to speak of, they don't really exist the way you think they even possibly can. Blizzard doesn't seem to care to update their starting zone so you're shit out of luck making a point for them existing in lore.

exactly, the players cannot play with goblins monks because blizzard don't want to update their zone, it have nothing to do with lore and your argumments made nonsense, im gladly you understand that now.

So if the majority are shady and greedy as you admit, why would they lend themselves to Monk teachings which provides nothing for them to make profit off of?

first because you are wrong, because they can make profit of it

second, because like i said, for a race be a class it don't need to be majority of that race.

All you did was google wow wiki and bust out a couple pictures and citations, and it's hardly enough to prop up your point.

you coudl do that too and provide fact information about your giberish

I looked up Gazlowe myself, and guess what? Your precious selfless goblin and his workers were paid very well by Thrall in Orgrimmar's construction.

he was hired, what yo expect? he is doing a fine and honest work and yet, did you read how the selfless goblin helped the horde too?

Mechagon? You mean Timeless Isle #2? Oh wow, what an important zone and role he played there! I'm sure when people look back on BfA lore, they'll think back to what Gazlowe did in Mechagon, not Queen Azshara, Sylvanas burning down Teldrassil, Siege of Lordaeron or the Faction War. No, they'll remember how Gazlowe realized how PROFITABLE working with the Alliance can be after defeating King Mechagon.

your rant is pathetic, both isle of thunder and mechagon are important and cool zones with their own unique lore, it was more than Gallywix in drustivar.

Even lorthemar worked with the alliance in nazjatar don't know where you are

You alluded Gazlowe is a living example of potentially good goblins. I refuted he's an exception, not the standard,

and you are wrong because his crew also share his view Of honest work

and that most goblins are more like Gallywix.

thats also false, since many goblins dislike him and dislike work with him

some can be good, but then you didn't say they could be, you flip flop and back peddle so much it's hard to keep track.

there is no flip flop you are too much disoriented by your own nonsense to see what people are talking about

The same can be applied for monks.

no it can't, there are 2 different classes with different methods of learning and aplications

If goblins showed the aptitude or interest, in lore, to be monks, they'd be monks.

is like saying prior humans had no aptitude or interest, in lore to be hunters, because there was not human hunter playable in that time, is indigenous

there is one monk, so you are already wrong on this subject.

Not just one background character insert with no lore to speak of,

he was a mage and rerrol to monk, and now joined the order of the monks in pandaria, pretty cool lore to speak off

actual playable characters. You can't be a monk goblin, lore is dictated by game play, and therefore, they can't be monks

no again you are wrong,goblins can be monks, there is one already showing that, you cannot play as one, for reasons that are not about their lore or moral compass

Who you met in Dungeons & Dragons has absolutely no importance to this discussion.

Says the one bringing up Lord of the rings and other goblins appearances, dude

Goblink monks are not a reality,

You completely missed my point, but I don't really care about DND or Tormenta. It has no bearing on this discussion.

its because you had a wrong idea about the subject.

That was sarcasm. They're not MY class/race divisions, they're Blizzard's. Learn to love it. You don't have goblin monks

your sarcasm is as good as your arguments

Get back to me when they do, but don't hold your breath. You've lost enough oxygen to your brain discussing this.

they can always add in the future,it don't need to be today or 9.0, the point is they can be :~~)

Not sure where the Amani trolls bit even came from but most of your blurbs are wild swings from left field.

Amani trolls dabbled with nature powers, wild gods and shapeshift into animals like real druids, this was a precedent to open druids to trolls, sorry if you can't understand basic examples like this

And Goblin monks don't make sense.

The fact we don't have them available should be indicative enough.

no tis not, again, its like saying human hunters didn't make sense because they were not avaiable, therefore they should not be

And they do take balance into account when selecting class/race combos as far as making sure both factions have comparable crack at roles

[Citation needed]

You want non-greedy goblins. You want green gnomes.

not rly, they already exist, i don't have t "want" anything, goblins as a race are based entirely on the greed adjective.

Yeah but goblins can't be monks, so... good luck proving otherwise.

I don't care about popular media, we're talking Azerothian Forsaken here.

but you cared about Lord of the rings goblins before, youa re showing yourself as a massive hypocrite

Undead are not a joke race. ]I can't drill this into your head enough.

undead are a dark edgelord cruel race of cannibals twisted by the undead state, they kill they hunger for flesh, infused and only being able to sustain themselves with death and profane magic, SOMEHOW THIS FITS THE MONK WAYS OF < focus on using their bodies, fists, meditation, serenity, and being selfless> but goblins don't, because goblins like to have money

SUUUUUUUUUUURE BUDDY

Their racial leader is literally the Warchief of the Horde.

an evil genodical leader, by you logic,the goblins reflect their leader, so does the forsaken, then genocidal evil forsaken somehow fit the monk ways of < focus on using their bodies, fists, meditation, serenity, and being selfless> but goblins don't

Goblins have like TWO notable characters in the history of Warcraft, and that's it. They are a gag race, Undead are actually important to the Horde's story.

you seems to focus too much on this, regardless what they are it don't matter, you can't say they can't be monks because they are a joke race its nonsense.

Because your argument is weak. I have a hard time believing you could convince a camel to drink water. He'd probably get confused and drown himself.

at least he would reach the water,you seems to putting your head deep in the sand, there is nothing bad to be wrong

Most classes but monks there is profit to be made of.

i will just call this bullshit because ie xplained how you can make proffit from monks, and you saying its not possible is totally out of your ass, so i willignore the rest.

Second most important goblin in the Horde... all three of them!

yes, like 1 more than forsaken who have just Sylvanas and nathanos

He's been your beacon for selfless goblins. Don't back peddle again, now.

he is a example of selfless goblins i never said he need to represent the goblin race

We don't know for sure one way or another,

tons of monks not living in temples in the game, are you serious

Undead possess a stronger mental aptitude than goblins. Will of the Forsaken isn't just a pretty talent, it's representative of the race's mental fortitude.

they having a "stronger mental aptitude" don't make then less evil and a cruel of a race, if other races whodon't have "the will of forsken" can be monks so does goblins

Arrive at a point.

youw ant me put a flag? we already come to the conclusion, a class to be playable don't have to be from majority of the race

Every racial leader has an unique model.

yes, just like Moira, Falstad and Muradin, boom here you are wrong again

and lorthemar and Gallyx only received their models recently, and lortemar was around here fora long time.

Even supporting characters like Jaina, Nathanos, Katherine Proudmoore, Rexxar, Saurfang, and antagonists like Lady Ashvane have gotten unique models.

only now they have dude

Gazlowe is about as important as Hemet Nesingway.

taking notes here for a character be important he have to posses an unique model, no matter what time they get one new, got it

Indigenous or ingenuous?

disingenuous

And what did he do or say in it that was of any importance to the story?

i dunno man, you love goblins you should know

It is their defining trait and you refuse to accept it, now who's arguing with a wall?

no, its one of their traits, you refuse to acknowledge that there are others, and refuse to accept there are goblins who are not like Gallywix in the world

The citation is they CAN'T, because you can't play one.

thats not a citation and its wrong.

Heavily implied

thats what you have being doing since the beginning you are just giving your personal opinion and personal headcanon, your understand that way when there is nothing saying they are the same, similar maybe, they share traits sure, but i never said they are te same

Gamble the elements? You mean commune, but yeah, they can commune with elements because Thrall likely trained them to,

what? now you are telling me Thrall trained the goblins monks? what world do you live?

it is one of the explanations of goblins shamans, they making bargains and deals with the elements

The same cannot be said for a relationship between the goblins and Pandaren monk trainers, because it does not exist.

Way to generalize and trivialize the class.

no, not really, youa re reading to deep

You really have no basis for this because I know it doesn't exist in lore. We have no idea what the "easiest" class to master is, but my guess sure as hell wouldn't be Monk, but rather Warrior.

to be a monk you just need a pandaren in your starting zone, races who literally joined in the faction in the same spanw of time learned how to be monks with the pandarens

Not much to know, you act like such a goblin expert

sure goblin lover

If you had debunked my logic, I would have stopped. You're not doing as good a job as you think you are.

you didn't because you are very stubborn

you even come with the nonsense of "you cannot make profit from monks"

like rly

[Destinas]

They're nowhere near comparable. Dark Irons aren't 'chaotic', but even if they were, that's not what I was talking about. Goblins in Kezan live a life of luxury and debauchery. It has nothing to do with 'using machines' or 'being chaotic'.

Presumably the life of a priest would normally be humbling, but, as mentioned before, Airborne Priests charge money for their services. It really doesn't matter what a Goblin does, they'll find a way to make money at it. Being a Monk doesn't really need to change anything about that.

I never said it's "impossible" for a goblin to be a monk. I'm saying it's highly unlikely, especially the ones that were currently living in Kezan prior to the world breaking.

And as I said, it's quite easy to work around.

They got the mooks for that:

Hell, even the player goblin has their own private mook.

The majority of Goblin society isn't Hobgoblins.

Then they'd not be "brewmasters" in the sense of a monk brewmaster. They'd be a "brewmaster" in the literal sense: someone that makes beer.

That's a fine line. Brewmasters, as a spec, are just martial arts versions of the Brewfest vendors. Not that huge of a difference, in the end.

The same way that Gilnean Harvest Witches aren't technically the exact same as druids. They accelerate the growth of plants, but they aren't druids in anywhere near the same vein as the Cenarion Circle. However, playable Worgen start out as a Gilnean druid with the same abilities as other new druids.

The same way that Gnome gunners aren't technically hunters. They often use guns, but they aren't known en masse to be hunters. Only one Gnome hunter existed in WoD, but they certainly added them in Legion.

The same way that Kul Tiran Tidesages aren't technically Frost Mages, but Frost Mages can certainly have the aesthetic, right down to the clothes, weapon, and elemental. Despite the fact that we've seen Kul Tiran mages (like, of course, Jaina and Rosaline Mildenhall) that doesn't mean that every Kul Tiran would want to be a mage, or have the ability to be a mage. However, they were there as mages day one.

The same way that Shadowmoon Mag'har Orcs aren't technically priests like all the other priests. They really only use shadow/Void spells, no Light-based spells at all, and they're more like Void-corrupted Shamans or Necromancers. However, they're the only playable Orc Priests.


There are a million reasons for every single race-class combo to not exist - especially the more unique ones. Goblin Monks make just as much sense as any other non-Pandaren Monk. There are ways to easily make lore for them, and that's just where my opinion about this will stay.

[Ielenia]

Presumably the life of a priest would normally be humbling, but, as mentioned before, Airborne Priests charge money for their services. It really doesn't matter what a Goblin does, they'll find a way to make money at it. Being a Monk doesn't really need to change anything about that.

Not really. It's kind like an "apples and oranges", here. Most of the base classes of the game were generically-designed, with no specific culture in mind, the priest included. Meanwhile, the monk has been designed heavily around the pandaren culture, and the only monk trainers are pandaren.

And as I said, it's quite easy to work around.

Not really. Again, the goblins of Kezan lived a life of luxury and debauchery. They had no need nor interest in the more humble lifestyle of the monk and their teachings.

The majority of Goblin society isn't Hobgoblins.

Go play the goblin starter zone. Many hobgoblins around, being used as bouncers, guards and servants. Again: your own goblin playable character has their own personal hobgoblin.

That's a fine line. Brewmasters, as a spec, are just martial arts versions of the Brewfest vendors. Not that huge of a difference, in the end.

No, it's not a "fine line". There's huge loads of differences between the two. The normal brewmasters are just that: makers of brews. While the monk brewmaster, while also making brews, have a whole different set of training, mentality, discipline and skills that the normal brewmasters not only don't have, but have no need for.

That's like saying fencing is the "martial arts version" of 'pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey' game.

The same way that Gnome gunners aren't technically hunters. They often use guns, but they aren't known en masse to be hunters. Only one Gnome hunter existed in WoD, but they certainly added them in Legion.

Warriors can use guns.

The same way that Kul Tiran Tidesages aren't technically Frost Mages, but Frost Mages can certainly have the aesthetic, right down to the clothes, weapon, and elemental. Despite the fact that we've seen Kul Tiran mages (like, of course, Jaina and Rosaline Mildenhall) that doesn't mean that every Kul Tiran would want to be a mage, or have the ability to be a mage. However, they were there as mages day one.

The Kul'Tirans' lifestyle was not like the goblins, and mage teachings does not clash with their lifestyle.

The same way that Shadowmoon Mag'har Orcs aren't technically priests like all the other priests. They really only use shadow/Void spells, no Light-based spells at all, and they're more like Void-corrupted Shamans or Necromancers. However, they're the only playable Orc Priests.

Priests have a shadow spec, remember? Based on the void.

[Seyna Starstrider]

There really is no reason lore-wise to keep Worgen and Goblins from being monks. There are more reasons to justify them existing than not. The arguments against such are nitpicks and pretty much come down to, "They shouldn't have monks because I say they shouldn't."

[Kyphael]

check how i said similar, not the same or equal, similar

Hardly even similar, nothing Gazlowe has done has ever driven the narrative forward. He's a gearhead and an architect. Gallywix has had a hand as supporting character to Sylvanas both in lore cut scenes and quest zones. That Gazlowe has between being a tertiary character in quest zones makes him as relevant as most quest zone NPC's. Priscilla Ashvane, a complete new character, has already seen more relevance.

arcane magic to emulate nature magic, blood elves did all the time

Find a source because he's described in lore as a Botanist/Herbalist, "apparent druid." Nowhere is it said he's a mage masquerading as Botanist.

proof of how they can't please

That gnolls can't be druids? Considering they're sworn enemies of everyone that teaches the way of the druid, and are probably too dumb to learn to be druids from evidence presented in-game regarding gnoll behavior, it's a foregone conclusion. But you live in a fantasy world of endless possibilities where role-playing means free reign to ignore established lore and do as you will so debating this point with you is an exercise in futility, like this entire discussion.

its already refute your argument, and open precedents to more if blizzard wants, so ther eis no such thing of your nonsense arguments of they being greedy

It doesn't fit their character and Goblin monks are not shown to be common in-game. One single goblin monk with no lore, backstory, or importance does not a precedent set, that is some mental gymnastics to justify their existence in present time.

yes and? your idea of monk is not aligned with Ji personality, or you are going to open more and exceptions but just not for goblins because reasons?

Ji is not an indication of what goblin monks would be. Your entire argument has boiled down to a nameless, lore-lacking background goblin monk being precedent for an entire race of greedy swindlers becoming monks. When it happens, you can say it exists with proper representation, but until that does, a monk goblin order or even more than ONE, does not exist in game and in lore. Out of sight means out of mind, you need representation. And yes, human hunters until implemented were not considered a thing in Warcraft lore, Cataclysm was the time period they came into existence so that argument is null and void. I'm not going to go through the process of debunking every individual quotation from you because it's just too timing draining and pointless.

[Syegfryed]

Hardly even similar, nothing Gazlowe has done has ever driven the narrative forward.

he did to find and get the horde in mechagon, if you don't think it matters is on you.

Find a source because he's described in lore as a Botanist/Herbalist, "apparent druid."

"aparently'

That gnolls can't be druids?

that they can't be monks

Considering they're sworn enemies of everyone that teaches the way of the druid, and are probably too dumb to learn to be druids from evidence presented in-game regarding gnoll behavior, it's a foregone conclusion.

pretty much like quillbordsthey could be druids, since tey are animalsanyway, they prob have a thing and are descendants of a wild god

It doesn't fit their character

but somehow monks fit undeads,void elves, dark ironm orcs and other races with as much or worse negative traits

andsomehow shamans and priests do fit goblins, but monks? no no

its why im saying you have no sense

and Goblin monks are not shown to be common in-game. One single goblin monk with no lore, backstory, or importance does not a precedent set,

you don't have to, you didn't have any human hunter with bnackstory and importance before they being playable, neither an orc mage

for god's sake how many monks of other races had much lore, backstory or importance to allow ten races to be monks in MOP? you have no ground to stand

that is some mental gymnastics to justify their existence in present time.

mental gymnastic is you desperate trying to say they can't for some bullshit reasons when they can be classes with similar traits and other races with worse negative characteristics can be monks jus fine.

Ji is not an indication of what goblin monks would be.

no is a example of how you are wrong about monks, since he don't fit your headcnon of monks

Your entire argument has boiled down to a nameless, lore-lacking background goblin monk being precedent for an entire race of greedy swindlers becoming monks.

dude your entire argument has boiled down to wrong facts, headcnaon and personal point of view and personal "feeling"

there are worse races than goblins being monk, you literally have an undead zombie filled with death magic who preach death to living being able to dabble with the spirit magic the chi in his body, but somehow being greedy automatically disallow you to the capacity of being a monk

And yes, human hunters until implemented were not considered a thing in Warcraft lore

lmao, now you are telling me humans hunters didn't exist lore until cataclysm 4Head


let alone nathanos in his human time being the first ranger lord

Cataclysm was the time period they came into existence so that argument is null and void.

no, that was the period when they become playable, not the period they came to existence, you have to elarn to diferentiate then

I'm not going to go through the process of debunking every individual quotation from you because it's just too timing draining and pointless.

no its because you can't, you already dropped the ball real hard and its looking bad for you, especially the part where yous aid you could not make profit from a monk