frost, warrior, holy priest and combat need to be nerfed

[Xath]

Why would Blizzard put random resistances on tier gear of every class if they had no intention of those resistances being useful?

Because itemization was all over the place back then.

Because gear was purposefully made non optimally so they could vastly increase player power without crazy ilvl increases. T3 is basically perfectly statted if you want to know what they intended each class to be.

[clevin]

We wanted Vanilla with proper progression.

We got Classic with spellpower greens, 1.12 talents and nerfs to content plus items in their final form.

It was never reasonable to expect Blizzard to make and re-release all of the actual patches as they were in Vanilla. Jesus, quit bitching.

[Dhrizzle]

Why would Blizzard put strength on Druid Tier 1 and Tier 2 gear if they had no intention on that strength being useful?

Because they didn't? They put strength on Druid Tier-0/Dungeon-1 but those sets also gave strength to the Rogue and Hunter and spirit to the Warrior so I don't think they're all that great for showing what a class should be doing.

Druid tier 1 was spirit, intellect and healing with a little bit of spell-power. Tier 2 didn't have the spell-power, just the healing.

[Xath]

No! Tier 3 was the only tier on release itemized for one role. What you say does not add up!

Correct because other gear was purposefully made non optimally. T3 was nearly perfectly stated so that it actually made sense to wear the full tier.

Also druid T1 didn't have strength the dungeon sets aka non class specific ones did.

[Daffan]

People fell for a troll post

what's funny is all the classic lovers like you getting triggered at how ease mode the game is and feeling like you need to cool the flames

[Xath]

Let me see if this link works.

https://imgur.com/a/TNWt4Xf

I just don't see how anyone could see these gloves, or i could link other gear to prove my point, and say that the stats were randomly put on, or they only benefited healing.

It wasn't purposefully made non-optimally. It was made to benefit all specs of a class. You wanted to play feral? Tier 1 and 2 would benefit you. The issue was the lack of testing. They tested level 60 for about one or two weeks, with nothing but inside testing (admittedly little of that) of Molten Core and Onyxia. Players didn't see tier 1 and 2 until they got it after release of vanilla.

Saying that Blizzard intentionally wanted all hybrids to heal is just wrong. The devs said that they were happy with Hurricane, even a little worried that it would make Balance druids compete too well with Mages. Initial player feedback about Hurricane was, apparently, actually really positive (although, it was initially bugged as an instant cast). Even after the bug was fixed, players were still rather OK with it (although, bummed out that it was fixed lol).

What happened in early MC were the tactics forcing hybrids to heal. The general strategy at the time, used by the best guilds, was to have a rotation of healers. Five healers would cast healing spells, while ten would just stay put. When those five went oom, a new five would cast healing spells. And then, rinse and repeat. Those who were waiting were hoarding up their mana until it was their turn again. And let me stress that they were waiting. You didn't pre-cast healing spells, because, in those days, it took you off the ooc-regen timer. Of course, you also had people just standing by the wayside rezzing players in combat.

It was this that forced hybrids to heal. Not because Blizzard intended their other specs to be for leveling, or just plain garbage. Blizzard tried hard to keep to their original philosophy, but caved in later. That is why you see tier 3 optimized for healing and, for the first time at release, no other specs. There was no going back at that point with the xpac just around the corner.

Warrior tier gear had spirit early on blizz set specific amounts that they wanted of good stats and then they filled in the rest with awful stats like spirit on warrior gear and strength on healer tier gear. It's why if you look at the bis lists most do not contain much tier. Also no blizzard intentionally designed dps specs for healers to aid in leveling not to be viable in raid. I'm very aware of the rotation as well as ooc rezzing.

[Majestic12]

It was never reasonable to expect Blizzard to make and re-release all of the actual patches as they were in Vanilla. Jesus, quit bitching.

Ever heard of progressive itemization at least? Do you even private server dawg?

Yes, I admit I wanted more. But Blizzard didn't even reach the same level as Private servers did.

Private servers did Classic better than Blizzard. That's just a fact.

[Xath]

It seems i can't convince you otherwise. No amount of evidence, even Blizzard devs at the time of early vanilla wouldn't be able to convince you. I show you druid tier gear with strength and +arcane damage, and you can continue to believe it was only meant for healers. I don't know what to do, lol.

And I can show you warrior tier gear with spirit that isn't a compelling argument.

[Coldfire989]

No changes means no changes. I know it is hard for the average forum goer to get but they are not going to do anything like this at all.

[Shuji V2]

Balance is boring, it's imo what ruined retail WoW (or one of the factors) and turned it into an esport oriented game where everyone can do anything and classes barely bring anything unique to the table any more. All classes are made according to the same principles having filler abilities, a resource dump, an oh-shit button, some sort of heal, etc. Everything feels so methodical and scripted and the RPG aspects of the game are completely lost.

For me, I am totally fine with pure specs outperforming hybrids by a large margin. Hybrids get to raid because of the utility they bring and how they buff others, not for their own damage. In this way, classes have more freedom of how they can be designed and don't need to adhere to balance that makes everything feel the same. As an example, in Classic, I have a hard time deciding on what I want to be because literally every class brings something else to the game and it lets you experience the game in a totally different way.

As a closing remark, if you feel that you want to be good at dealing damage, roll a pure DPS class instead of calling for nerfs. I personally love having the choice and feel it makes having alts more compelling as well.

[Specialka]

Balance is boring, it's imo what ruined retail WoW (or one of the factors) and turned it into an esport oriented game where everyone can do anything and classes barely bring anything unique to the table any more. All classes are made according to the same principles having filler abilities, a resource dump, an oh-shit button, some sort of heal, etc. Everything feels so methodical and scripted and the RPG aspects of the game are completely lost.

For me, I am totally fine with pure specs outperforming hybrids by a large margin. Hybrids get to raid because of the utility they bring and how they buff others, not for their own damage. In this way, classes have more freedom of how they can be designed and don't need to adhere to balance that makes everything feel the same. As an example, in Classic, I have a hard time deciding on what I want to be because literally every class brings something else to the game and it lets you experience the game in a totally different way.

As a closing remark, if you feel that you want to be good at dealing damage, roll a pure DPS class instead of calling for nerfs. I personally love having the choice and feel it makes having alts more compelling as well.

The issue with Vanilla is that hybrids are not worth it, even with their buffs taken into account.

[Shuji V2]

The issue with Vanilla is that hybrids are not worth it, even with their buffs taken into account.

Because?
Do you think that a class is only good if it deals competitive damage?

[Specialka]

In the context of Classic, yes because the boss have next to zero meaningful mecanics compared to today standards.

[Monoxide]

People wanted classic, they're getting classic. And all the "balance" that comes with it.

I don't want balance, I want fun. If I was looking for balance I'd go play an esport, not an mmorpg.

[Frozenbro]

Because?
Do you think that a class is only good if it deals competitive damage?

I think what he meant is that the tax for having utility is way too high, druid for example can heal and buff, but it literally does half dmg or less than a mage, that tax is way too much for some people so it makes sense if they end up hating the balance for feeling underwhelming.

[Reyuna]

No changes.

[Monoxide]

I think what he meant is that the tax for having utility is way too high, druid for example can heal and buff, but it literally does half dmg or less than a mage, that tax is way too much for some people so it makes sense if they end up hating the balance for feeling underwhelming.

Not all classes are equal in all roles. It's ok.

Mages should do way more damage than Druids. Damage is all they can do. It's ok.

[Hctaz]

Why the hell would a shaman make as much dps as a warrior? I don't get where people got the idea that balancing is right. The problem is that people have dps meter and these kind of websites. The shaman brings windfury to the group man, it's much better than anything. Paladin gives salvation to the whole group and more buffs that significantly increase the raid's overall dps.

This. If DPS meters could accurately reflect the amount of damage gained from having a shaman in your group of warriors then you'd see how busted they are. A shaman can probably out dps a warrior just by slapping down Windfury totem and going AFK in a group of warriors. And that's from procs alone. This isn't even taking all of the extra rage generated into consideration.

[Reyuna]

Please Blizzard! Homogenize everything!

[Specialka]

This. If DPS meters could accurately reflect the amount of damage gained from having a shaman in your group of warriors then you'd see how busted they are. A shaman can probably out dps a warrior just by slapping down Windfury totem and going AFK in a group of warriors. And that's from procs alone. This isn't even taking all of the extra rage generated into consideration.

I wonder why wowlogs does not do it while fflogs does it (you can see how many dps a class contribute raidwise). They both run on the same things but for 2 differents games, maybe that is how they are both code so we can not do that.