Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Veldoranz]

Someone mind linking me the leaks? I am having trouble telling which one everyone is talking about.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

More like Jake Skywalker gives up on himself.
Luke wouldn't. He didn't for his father which was so far gone not even Yoda thought was redeeamable, it makes no sense he'd throw the towel immediately for Ben Solo.

Just horrible writing.

yes yes super hopeful luke fan fic we get it, now shoo.

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Exactly. Luke would have joined the Empire perhaps if slept in. Han was in the Empire. Many Rebels, notably pilots, were once proud servants of the Empire.

If Rogue One meant to show anything its both sides had dirt on its name (the Alliance was still a bit more excusable) and that many Imperials were detached from what top command was doing or they were sabotaging the Empire any ways they could. It's war. Most of the grunts have no control of much of anything.

ya I never got why people paint the average solider as if they really have any control on what goes on with the empire.

[Malaky]

yes yes super hopeful luke fan fic we get it, now shoo.

No, just Luke as he was established at the end of Return of the Jedi.
Nothing more, nothing less.

Resetting his growth bringing him back to the starting line as a weak-willed guy prone to fits of anger makes no sense.

[PACOX]

More like Jake Skywalker gives up on himself.
Luke wouldn't. He didn't for his father which was so far gone not even Yoda thought was redeeamable, it makes no sense he'd throw the towel immediately for Ben Solo.

Just horrible writing.

Luke did not want to be a fabled hero. He also understood the flaws of the Jedi, his father and his own path being the result of those flaws.

He was right to be pragmatic. He was not equipped to usher in the new Jedi because the Order was inherently flawed. It was poor at keeping the dark side at bay, falling to actual teach people how to confront the seduction of the dark side. He saw the failures in his father, he saw them in Kylo, he saw them in himself. That's why he refused to continue teaching the flawed teachings.

He became a bit jaded, but not without logical steps that got him to that point. He flaw, because people love to talk about character flaws in SW, is appropriate. That flaw being the defeated attitude he adopted. That the Jedi are a catalyst for bad people and should end. Even if it meant watching the FO overtake the Republic, the galaxy would have to find a way to exist without the Jedi Order - the Order that seemed to churn out the villians who brought the most evil to the galaxy.

Luke 'redeemed' himself when he gave the next generation the tools to start something new. Not the Jedi but something that learned from the mistakes of the Jedi. He actually learned how to deal with those flaws in his exile (@Endus is good at explaining it) but didn't have skills/confidence to articulate it.

Also realize 30 years have passed....people change for better or for worse.

[Malaky]

Luke did not want to be a fabled hero. He also understood the flaws of the Jedi, his father and his own path being the result of those flaws.

He was right to be pragmatic. He was not equipped to usher in the new Jedi because the Order was inherently flawed. It was poor at keeping the dark side at bay, falling to actual teach people how to confront the seduction of the dark side. He saw the failures in his father, he saw them in Kylo, he saw them in himself. That's why he refused to continue teaching the flawed teachings.

He became a bit jaded, but not without logical steps that got him to that point. He flaw, because people love to talk about character flaws in SW, is appropriate. That flaw being the defeated attitude he adopted. That the Jedi are a catalyst for bad people and should end. Even if it meant watching the FO overtake the Republic, the galaxy would have to find a way to exist without the Jedi Order - the Order that seemed to churn out the villians who brought the most evil to the galaxy.

Luke 'redeemed' himself when he gave the next generation the tools to start something new. Not the Jedi but something that learned from the mistakes of the Jedi. He actually learned how to deal with those flaws in his exile (@Endus is good at explaining it) but didn't have skills/confidence to articulate it.

Also realize 30 years have passed....people change for better or for worse.

I'm not talking about him abandoning the galaxy to evil to go live like a hermit without ever putting up a fight, though that's a whole other can of worms.

I'm talking of him going to murder his best friend's son in his sleep because he "saw" some dark future ahead of him.
After Darth Vader, you'd think he'd have and try all sort of ways to save him before throwing the towel and ah no let's just murder him in his sleep.

As I said, makes no sense. This is like a whole different character, which is why people call him Jake and not Luke.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

I still can’t believe this movie comes out this week on Friday. Can’t wait to see the critics reactions. /s

[Lorgar Aurelian]

No, just Luke as he was established at the end of Return of the Jedi.
Nothing more, nothing less.

Resetting his growth bringing him back to the starting line as a weak-willed guy prone to fits of anger makes no sense.

as I said your fan fic. return ends with luke having fits of anger to say any thing else is pure fanfic.

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The Empire was most assuredly an evil organization like Hydra..

not really no. hydra is filled with people who know there being evil dick heads. the empire is filled with normal people who joined the legitimate government for one reason or another with people like han or luke joining because it is legitimate.

[PACOX]

I'm not talking about him abandoning the galaxy to evil to go live like a hermit without ever putting up a fight, though that's a whole other can of worms.

I'm talking of him going to murder his best friend's son in his sleep because he "saw" some dark future ahead of him.
After Darth Vader, you'd think he'd have and try all sort of ways to save him before throwing the towel and ah no let's just murder him in his sleep.

As I said, makes no sense. This is like a whole different character, which is why people call him Jake and not Luke.

Saying he tried to murder his nephew is a mischaracterisation. He thought about it and then realized it was an insane thought. It was his darkness that he struggled with. He was right in his premonitions, he was wrong and realized that murdering lil Kylo wasn't the solution. It's literally the 'baby Hitler' question put on a screen.

[Harbour]

Threw up a bit reading spoilers.

Palpatine returned god knows how just to be shitfaced 2 hours later?
Mace Windu is in the movie but Anakin fooking Skywalker isnt?
Creepy psycho maniac managed to kiss the girl he still wanted to kill 30 minutes prior that? She kissed him back?!
Rey ended up on another sand planet to live? What a fooking character journey.
She is Palpatine but took the name of Skywalkers, who were as shitty people as Sheev? This is it? This is the happy end? This is a bitter ending as possible.


Oh god, this might be not as monumental ruination as Luke one, but there they managed to shit on almost every OT/PT and ST character. This is GoT S8 all over again.

[Malaky]

as I said your fan fic. return ends with luke having fits of anger to say any thing else is pure fanfic.

Lel, you really got mad when I called out your little fanfic a few pages back did you?
It's like you can't write a post now without screaming the term around.

Chill, and try some arguments instead next time.

Saying he tried to murder his nephew is a mischaracterisation. He thought about it and then realized it was an insane thought. It was his darkness that he struggled with. He was right in his premonitions, he was wrong and realized that murdering lil Kylo wasn't the solution. It's literally the 'baby Hitler' question put on a screen.

He drew his lightsaber. I'd hardly call that just thinking.
And Luke already conquered that type of darkness in a much more difficult trial against the Emperor+Vader together.
I find it simply unbelievable that he'd struggle more from a vision about Horseface Solo than facing the Emperor about to kill everyone he loved.

As I said they completely resetted Luke's progress and growth by the end of RotJ.

[PACOX]

The Empire was most assuredly an evil organization like Hydra.

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I do. The Empire forced many people into service or slavery. That doesn't mean the Empire wasn't an evil organization, but it certainly doesn't do a lot for it being a "legitimate government".

A lot of evil stuff the Empire did was hidden or white washed with propaganda. It appeared normal and legitimate to most, without getting to real here.

People were told a planet that was being blockaded because it was full of terrorists who wanted to harm the Empire. Certain practices like strict security check points were normalized in the name of fighting terrorists and bad actors. Planets that were exploited for resources were done so 'for the needs of the galaxy'. How can you cry out against cheap Wookie labor while hyperspace fuel is cheap? Senators who spoke out were labeled traitors with selfish desires. Much of the same propaganda was used during the Clone Wars.

The Empire didn't become openly oppressive/authoritian until ANH when it had the Death Star. That's when Sidious dissolved the Galactic Senate. Most people didn't know of Vader, Star Destroyers glassing planets, systems being enslaved.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Lel, you really got mad when I called out your little fanfic a few pages back did you?
It's like you can't write a post now without screaming the term around.

Chill, and try some arguments instead next time.

Why would I be mad? I've refuted every thing you have possibly said with actual in universe sources, you on the other hand have just spouted nonsense. its like talking to my dog, I can explain to him why he cant smash the cat flat but hes just gonna stare at me blankly and go back to trying to get the cat.

If you had any thing oh substance Id care but you well you don't.

[Malaky]

Why would I be mad? I've refuted every thing you have possibly said with actual in universe sources, you on the other hand have just spouted nonsense. its like talking to my dog, I can explain to him why he cant smash the cat flat but hes just gonna stare at me blankly and go back to trying to get the cat.

If you had any thing oh substance Id care but you well you don't.

Love how you premised this rant with "why would I be mad".

Threw up a bit reading spoilers.

Palpatine returned god knows how just to be shitfaced 2 hours later?
Mace Windu is in the movie but Anakin fooking Skywalker isnt?
Creepy psycho maniac managed to kiss the girl he still wanted to kill 30 minutes prior that? She kissed him back?!
Rey ended up on another sand planet to live? What a fooking character journey.
She is Palpatine but took the name of Skywalkers, who were as shitty people as Sheev? This is it? This is the happy end? This is a bitter ending as possible.


Oh god, this might be not as monumental ruination as Luke one, but there they managed to shit on almost every OT/PT and ST character. This is GoT S8 all over again.

Are these actual spoilers or just leaks?

[Fayolynn]

Are these actual spoilers or just leaks?

Leaks, but everything leading up to the movies release is backing up the leaks.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Love how you premised this rant with "why would I be mad".

you said I was mad, I explain why I don't care to indulge your nonsense any further.

If you have any thing of substance I'm happy to discus starwars but not one of your post have been based on either the actual movies or universe.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Are you sure about that? We know for a fact they worked people to death from CA:TFA. As such I doubt everyone was working for them willingly. Likewise with the Empire. They enslaved billions.

theres a difference between being enslaved and being a card carrying member the empire. wookie's are enslaved by the empire sure there working for them but its not really the same as being a storm trooper or a ship men who signed up for the job because you thought it was legit.

[PACOX]

All you’re doing is confirming they were evil as shit. Hiding your genocide, like the Nazis, doesn’t make you legitimate. It makes you fucking evil.

You replied to a comment that said everyone within the Empire wasn't evil.

Yes the Empire is evil. Many of the people who worked for the Empire are apathetic towards the war weren't.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

We constantly see people working for the empire willing to destroy planets and decimate populations. Not sure how you can think those are good people.

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You were saying Pacox?

If you read the extended media there are tons of normal people who are not willing to destroy planets or decimate populations just because we see abunch of faceless gones in the movie's doesn't mean that's every one in the empire.

and if your gonna quote me atlest put in the following context where i said hydra is filled with people who know what hydra's about. the empire might be evil at the high end but the average person wouldn't know that compared to every one in hydra knowing what hydra's about.

[PACOX]

You were saying Pacox?

they were working for the legitimate government not an evil organization like say hydra.

I read that as the 'the normal people believe they are working for a legitimate government and not an evil organization'.

The organization is still evil, but it has duped people to believe otherwise. Kind of the way Luke was ready to join until the whole Death Star thing. Before that he had only seen the 'benevolent' maybe slightly annoying side of the Empire.

We as outside observers can see the Empire is evil. A farm boy who does not know much about the galaxy or politics outside of his planet viewed the Empire a lot differently.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

He's claiming the empire isn't evil and is legitimate. Neither of which are true. Plenty of evil organizations in fiction have unwitting participants, but the vast majority of the Empire's military(all those assholes getting killed) carried out their orders to murder and enslave billions. Those who didn't either escaped to the rebellion or were killed by the empire itself. Hell, the people on the Death Star had to know they were blowing up planets. Killing them before they could murder a few billion more(after they already killed millions on Jedha and then billions on Alderaan), was the appropriate action. They were just as bad as Hydra, except worse because they actually killed a lot more people and enslaved many more.

the empire from the perspective of the normal people in it isn't evil and IT IS the legitimate government of the galaxy. the whole of the empire also wasn't taking part in enslaving murdering and blowing up planets there were people who didn't know that the empire was bad a truly saw the rebels as just a bunch of terrorist, the empire didn't have to kill these people as from an unwitting perspective the empire isn't doing any thing shady.

you are pretty much arguing that every one in the galaxy has our outsiders view and that's no where close to true. I mean they show this stuff in the ANH solo rebels, the comics pretty much every where.