Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Darththeo]

No, it's the fact she just never fucks up - never gets injured and is apparently the most powerful force user ever even though not even knowing what the force was like a few months previous

TFA: Rey is captured by Kylo because she separated herself from the group. Accidentally releases dangerous creatures trying to save Han.
TLJ: Rey nearly falls to the Dark Side trying to find out more about herself. Rey believes she can turn Kylo on nothing and risks herself to turn him and exposes herself to what at the time was the strongest known Dark Side Force User to her.
RoS: Let's herself get so angry that she thinks she had killed one of her friends. Let's herself get so angry that she nearly kills a distracted Kylo. She dies.

"Never fucks up" indeed. I think you and I have different definitions of fuck up. Yes, Luke's had more lasting effects on than Rey's did ... honestly it pissed me off they had Rey find out so fast Chewie was alive, that should have been saved til later in the movie or something or not happened at all.

The trilogy would have been so much better if he had been the protagonist

Much better? No. Much different? Yes.

[PACOX]

Rey has officially fucked up more than Luke when he was going through his journey.

Anakin never fucked up outside choosing to be a Sith, a conscious decision.

Rey is a Mary Sue

[apples]

Rey has officially fucked up more than Luke when he was going through his journey.

Anakin never fucked up outside choosing to be a Sith, a conscious decision.

Rey is a Mary Sue

anakins arc was one of downfall. if he fucked up then he woudlve ended up becoming the savior of everyone

[Relapses]

What I find indescribably hilarious is that I've seen people blame Rian Johnson for this movie as well.

J. J. had some shitty ideas for a Star Wars trilogy. He laid the ground work then figuratively (and literally) passed the baton to a film maker who came in with a controversial approach to bring the movie out of its nostalgia drenched footing. When certain loud portions of the fandom reacted negatively to this approach, Daddy Disney put J. J. back in charge so he could undo the prior film and wrap everything up in another nostalgic snooze fest (like the first film).

Honestly, they should have just let J. J. do the whole fucking thing or at some point during TLJ's production stopped and told Rian this ain't it. The entire trilogy suffered as a result. TLJ isn't a bad movie but Rise of Skywalker is a worse film not because of its predecessor's existence but rather because certain segments of Star Wars' shitty fanbase decided to champion its departure from the established status quo as a declaration of war.

Why Disney decided to handle this trilogy the way they did is anybody's guess but I genuinely hope if they move forward with more films that they at least plan the fucking thing out from the onset.

[Eapoe]

J. J. had some shitty ideas for a Star Wars trilogy. He laid the ground work then figuratively (and literally) passed the baton to a film maker who came in with a controversial approach to bring the movie out of its nostalgia drenched footing. When certain loud portions of the fandom reacted negatively to this approach, Daddy Disney put J. J. back in charge so he could undo the prior film and wrap everything up in another nostalgic snooze fest (like the first film).

Honestly, they should have just let J. J. do the whole fucking thing or at some point during TLJ's production stopped and told Rian this ain't it. The entire trilogy suffered as a result. TLJ isn't a bad movie but Rise of Skywalker is a worse film not because of its predecessor's existence but rather because certain segments of Star Wars' shitty fanbase decided to champion its departure from the established status quo as a declaration of war.

Why Disney decided to handle this trilogy the way they did is anybody's guess but I genuinely hope if they move forward with more films that they at least plan the fucking thing out from the onset.

I won’t say TLJ was a good or okay movie as it definitely fell flat in some spots and had shoddy storytelling at points (Rose saving Finn made no sense and the whole side mission never had to happen), but I will give Johnson props for other ideas. I like where he was wanting to take Kylo/Ben with the dismantling of the old orders: no Jedi, no Sith, but the melding of both. Snoke also could have been handled better. Anyways, I wasn’t a huge fan but I definitely recognize Johnson tried taking it places to make it it’s own trilogy and break away from nostalgia feels.
****Spoiler Talk****As RoS goes, it also has major issues and I found myself throwing my hands up and shaking my head at the dumb moments and the tribute shots to other properties and SW films. The scene on the Star Destroyer with Ben holding out his hand while Rey was on the ledge reeked of Empire, while the battle in the sky felt like a direct rip off of Endgame except for the actors reaction vs Caps.

[Mehrunes]

Honestly, they should have just let J. J. do the whole fucking thing or at some point during TLJ's production stopped and told Rian this ain't it. The entire trilogy suffered as a result. TLJ isn't a bad movie but Rise of Skywalker is a worse film not because of its predecessor's existence but rather because certain segments of Star Wars' shitty fanbase decided to champion its departure from the established status quo as a declaration of war.

TLJ is an atrocious movie and it's not because it "departed from an established status quo". Its story is a giant plot hole ridden with a boatload of other plotholes that consequently makes it devoid of any tension. On top of that Johnson threw all the setup from TFA under the bus (making TFA suffer retroactively as a result) for the sake of "subverting the expectations", subscribing to the same school of storytelling as Dipshit and Dumbfuck from GoT that says subverting the expectations just for the sake of subverting the expectations is somehow a good thing just because. Rise of Skywalker is most certainly a worse film because of its predecessor, because it had to spend way too much time bending over backwards to put Johnson's subverted nonsense back on track. Hell, not just the subverted things, it also had to address bullcrap like the Holdo maneuver that ruined Star Wars' space combat forever.

Rise of Skywalker has issues of its own too of course. Palpatine's return is a terrible plot point and its not even really explained other than him simply repeating his line about unnatural abilities from The Revenge of the Sith. If there was one thing from Extended Universe that Disney threw to the garbage that should have never returned to canon it was this. And just like the Extended Universe material that dabbled in the topic and made it such a mess, RoS repeated the same mistake of going "In my story Palpatine will be 1000 more powerful than in the previous story" (to the point they even got his fleet-wide force lightning from the EU). Abrams also didn't know WTF to do with Knights of Ren. And turning both the Jedi and the Sith into an Avatar from The Last Airbender is almost as bad as midichlorians. But TLJ did not help this movie one iota.

[Eapoe]

TFA: Rey is captured by Kylo because she separated herself from the group. Accidentally releases dangerous creatures trying to save Han.
TLJ: Rey nearly falls to the Dark Side trying to find out more about herself. Rey believes she can turn Kylo on nothing and risks herself to turn him and exposes herself to what at the time was the strongest known Dark Side Force User to her.
RoS: Let's herself get so angry that she thinks she had killed one of her friends. Let's herself get so angry that she nearly kills a distracted Kylo. She dies.

"Never fucks up" indeed. I think you and I have different definitions of fuck up. Yes, Luke's had more lasting effects on than Rey's did ... honestly it pissed me off they had Rey find out so fast Chewie was alive, that should have been saved til later in the movie or something or not happened at all.



Much better? No. Much different? Yes.

Except Rey’s fuck ups don’t matter and have no consequences.
Getting captured played out to be a good thing. Releasing the creatures actually helped them escape the team that showed up for them.
Rey never came close to the Dark Side, she just encountered it. Her trying to turn Ben actually developed their bond and laid ground work for RoS story arc between the two. Exposing herself to Snoke also lead to him being killed and getting an even stronger bond to Ben.
Her friend should have died. It would have been a better story arc for learning about herself and her powers and control, as well as deeper respect for what she does. Instead she learns he’s alive almost instantly and bears no weight to what she did. She almost kills Kylo, but then immediately heals him, completely absolving herself of what she just did. Her dying also isn’t a fuck up, it was sacrificing herself to stop the big bad, which again has no consequence and just gives a way to absolve Kylo of everything evil he ever did. This is a man that killed innocent men, women, and children (whether himself or his soldiers) and imprisoned them to be future soldiers, but we are supposed to forget about that due to his ending.
Luke’s fuck ups had some weight to them, but even then most were groundless like Rey’s. I won’t try and bullshit that.

[Darththeo]

I know I had a post like this, but this is different. This is how I would handle a sequel trilogy.

The Force Awakens:
The story is very similar, but there are changes. Snoke does not appear, nor speaks in this movie similar to the Emperor in ANH. There is no Starkiller Base. (It makes no sense to have Starkiller Base if you are going to have a Fleet of Super Weapon Star Destroyers later on). Instead the First Order doesn't have a base, they are 100% mobile as they aren't supposed to have any significant power, they don't really even control a region of space. (Better explaining to why the New Republic doesn't view them as a threat, yes they have ships, but no place to repair them if they get damaged outside of neutral ports.)

So the starting points are all the same, but things get different starting with Maz's Castle assault. Rather than the Hosnian system getting blown up, the First Order attacks Maz's Castle prior to Finn leaving. The attack happens when Finn is outside. Finn tries to run to the ship, but it is destroyed similar to how the first ship on Jakku was destroyed. Finn runs back inside and asks where Rey is.

Rey is captured by Kylo like in the movie, Leia saves the day. Finn attempts to plea with Leia that they have to save Rey, but Leia states she cannot afford to lose manpower. This is when Kylo's flagship drops out of hyperspace above the planet. The battle is similar to Episode I where there a battle on the ground as well as in space. Finn, Han and Chewie board the flagship to save Rey.

Rey escapes, but it is questionable if she used a mind trick or not. Make us believe if this could be another stormtrooper who may be fighting the conditioning. Finn, Chewie and Rey make it back to the ship they came in on (not the Falcon that is safe in a hanger on the ground). Han hangs back to confront Kylo to attempt to save his son. Rey in the cockpit is watching the scene between Han and Kylo, Finn is trying to get Chewie on board. Han is killed and his body falls to the floor dead. Chewie roars and blast Kylo who drops to a knee stunned. The ship starts blowing up knocking Kylo back and Han's body out the hanger. The heroes recover Han's body who is given a funeral on the planet below as the First Order was once again routed and runs away.

The movie ends with the map to Luke and Obi-wan's journal given to Rey (Leia gives Obi-wan's journal stating Luke had given it to her for safe keeping.)

The Last Jedi:
There is now a year gap between TFA and TLJ. Rey and Chewie along with R2D2 have been searching for Luke along the map, they had originally gone to the end and found that there was nothing there by an impassable Nebula that led into wild space. So they started to back track for clues, eventually ending on Ahch-to where they land and find the inhabitants of the island. Rey feels like this is a dead end until she sees the X-Wing in the bay, she turns and Luke is standing there (she doesn't recognize him as Luke as he is cloak). Luke asks why she is there, and she states she is looking for Luke Skywalker. This causes Luke to turn and leave, only to bump into Chewbacca knocking his hood off. (I personally found it weird that at the end of TFA that Rey just seem to know she found Luke).

Luke explains to Rey he had left to find an answer to the Dark Side after Kylo had destroyed his temple, but had found nothing. Constantly he was met with proof the Jedi were the cause of all the wrong in the universe and that he had repeated mistakes in training Kylo like Obi-wan did with Vader. So, Luke turned his back on the Force and the Jedi figuring if he died, then the universe would naturally fix itself. Luke gives the same lessons to Rey as in the original. She is still somehow connected to Kylo, but Snoke is not the connector, it is left open.

Meanwhile, the Hosnian system is visited by five Star destroyers calling themselves Plagueis Legion (or Maul, Tyrannus, Sideous or Vader, but I like Plagueis). A branch of the First Order and these ships destroy the Hosnian system. They take out the New Republic fleet, and then turn their eyes to the Resistance. This starts the chase through Hyperspace story, however it isn't in real space. The resistance jumps and the First Order follows after a while, the hyperspace tracking merely let's you know where they went, but you can't follow them while in hyperspace. This gives breaks for the Resistance to question what they are doing. Poe rather than be whatever he was has Finn and Connix go to Canto Bight to see if they can find help on this tracker issue.

On Canto Bight, Finn sees the First Order recruitment that almost causes him to blow their cover. Connix stops him and states "Remember why we are here." They are still caught, and the hope speech is given by Connix where she reveals she was recruited into the Resistance by Leia herself when they came to save her home and there are many places like Canto Bight where people are treated like this. (Seriously, we just needed the talk in the cell). DJ gets them out and they go back to the fleet having just again escaped an attack by the first Order. The plan is revealed that they are going to stow away on cloaked transports but they don't think that is going to be enough, they have to destroy the tracker. Finn and Connix with DJ sneak aboard the ship on the cloak vessel they stole, DJ does his thing and the rest of Finn's story continues as normal except Phasma reveals that she always new he would be like the others.

Kylo captures Rey and brings her to Snoke's chamber where he is told Snoke will be, but there is no one there. Rey and Kylo are standing in an empty throne room. There were guards outside implying Snoke is here. everyone on the ship claims Snoke is there. Kylo lashes out at the guards, Rey fights for her life with Anakin's saber. Kylo is enraged, he turns to fight Rey, informing her that they knew of the Resistance's plan and they soon will be all dead. Her only choice is to join him, because he will never leave her like her mother did. The Holdo Maneuver (perhaps someone other than Holdo) happens taking out the fleet like in the movie. Kylo takes the advantage to name himself Supreme Leader, claiming Snoke is dead.

The ground battle happens like in the movie, except Finn doesn't attempt to kill himself. Luke still dies, Rey still saves the day so to speak.

Rise of Skywalker:
Kylo finds out that Snoke never existed, it was a man behind the curtain, the voice he heard was Palpatine's somehow having survived the destruction of the 2nd Death Star. This is over a year after TLJ. Through the Force, Palpatine guides Kylo to him (no wayfinder needed for him). Palpatine makes the same offer "Kill the girl, get ultimate power." The ships that suddenly appeared in my TLJ were from Palpatine, but that was kept hidden people just assumed the First Order built them somehow ... even Kylo, assuming they were Snoke's secret.

The Resistance finds out off camera that a spy in the First Order confirms that Palpatine has returned (seriously, if we didn't need to see how the Rebels got the Death Star plans, we don't need to see how the Resistance obtain this info.) Leia confirmed that it was a worry of Luke's that Palpatine could somehow have survived, after all Luke saw beings exist beyond death in a sense. When the planet is named, Rey states she saw that name somewhere before and goes to Luke's journal that she took along with the Jedi books. That Luke had originally left to search for an answer to the Dark Side and all sides point to the planet the Emperor's on, but he couldn't get there. He had originally started the trip with Lando and a woman whose name had been erased from the book.

The rest of the movie follows a some what similar course with some changes. They aren't ambushed by the first order on the desert world, they leave with the dagger. C-3PO states he can't translate the dagger because of programming block, but rather than having to delete his memory to access it, it requires reprogramming him. Doing so reveals his memories from the prequels realizing he has been in service to the Skywalkers since his creation. He translates the ruins and the next stop is the Death Star wreckage. Similar stories are there and Finn realizes what Phasma was talking about, as well as adding more to the stormtrooper in the first movie where it is unclear.

The fight between Rey and Kylo goes slightly differently as this is their first duel in my story line (see no other fights). It is here that Kylo reveals to Rey she is a Palpatine, which causes Rey to doubt herself allowing the Dark Side aura of the wreckage to influence her, similar to the cave on Ahch-to. Seeing how close she came to the Dark Side when she nearly kills Kylo she runs. On Ahch-to, Luke does what Luke did, but reveals one other secret ... the woman he traveled with was Rey's mother and he had fell in love with her, even though she was Palpatine's daughter and that he is her father.

Note: The love aspect of Ben and Rey is downplayed in my versions. But, if you are going to have Rey be Rey Skywalker she should be a Skywalker. The rest of the movie is pretty similar, except rather than just Rey standing against the Emperor, Ben fights by her side. There isn't a huge fleet that comes out of nowhere, it is just Rey, Ben and a small strike force trying to take out the tower as the ships are powering up.

---

Is this better? I don't know, but at least if you are going to do "twists" have some hints earlier.

[Relapses]

TLJ was a huge box office success, as was the TFA as they were the #1 Box office film for their respective years. RoS is on pace to take the #2 slot, which if you want to say that a failure, but it only lost out to another Disney Studio film.

Solo poor box office had been attributed to Bob Iger as he pushed the release date up 6 whole months for better quarterly earnings, and it didn't get a chance to be properly promoted. Solo also did very well at home sales using the only metric we can on DVD/Bluerays and has a strong following with the fans pushing for a sequel.

There was also a rumor that Kathleen Kennedy was going to be fired and that Disney was disappointed with Ryan Johnson, but then they gave him his own Trilogy. Honestly, if she left I don't think it'd be the end of the world. Kennedy has also been doing a good job in my book, but I also enjoy all the new films. :P

Honestly, they're crowd pleasing films. I've seen it twice now (mostly to confirm my feelings about the first time I watched it) and both times the audience was applauding and cheering at the end. RoS is fine on a visceral level. The average movie goer likely doesn't care too much about lore. (Or their surface level understanding of the lore is limited to what you'd read on the back of Blu-Ray DVD box.) They just like the shooty things going pew pew and the cool light saber battles. And if that's what you go to the movies to enjoy, more power to you. I'm not going to try to change anybody's opinion about the film because I personally feel like it's the worst in the trilogy due to the way they effectively nullified another movie in the trilogy which I personally enjoyed more.

[Darththeo]

Except Rey’s fuck ups don’t matter and have no consequences.
Getting captured played out to be a good thing. Releasing the creatures actually helped them escape the team that showed up for them.
Rey never came close to the Dark Side, she just encountered it. Her trying to turn Ben actually developed their bond and laid ground work for RoS story arc between the two. Exposing herself to Snoke also lead to him being killed and getting an even stronger bond to Ben.
Her friend should have died. It would have been a better story arc for learning about herself and her powers and control, as well as deeper respect for what she does. Instead she learns he’s alive almost instantly and bears no weight to what she did. She almost kills Kylo, but then immediately heals him, completely absolving herself of what she just did. Her dying also isn’t a fuck up, it was sacrificing herself to stop the big bad, which again has no consequence and just gives a way to absolve Kylo of everything evil he ever did. This is a man that killed innocent men, women, and children (whether himself or his soldiers) and imprisoned them to be future soldiers, but we are supposed to forget about that due to his ending.
Luke’s fuck ups had some weight to them, but even then most were groundless like Rey’s. I won’t try and bullshit that.

What Luke fuck up had any weight to them? The biggest one is Empire where he loses a hand that gets replaced by the end of the movie.
The Wampa and cold nearly kill him (but this isn't a fuck up because he did nothing but attempt to survive), but Han saves him and he survived the night with some scars. Tusken Raiders in ANH don't count because he was out looking for his droid and was unaware of them ... and he was only knocked out because the plot needed it.
It appears to been accounted for failing with his first attempt with Jabba as the whole signal bs on the sail barge.
Seriously, what Luke fuck ups had any weight that stuck around with him? The only fuck up that fucked up long term was when he attempted to kill his nephew!

And your counters to Rey's fuck ups are factually wrong in some cases. So because one of her fuck ups help them blunder their way to safety it's not a fuck up? That's not what determines what is and isn't a fuck up.

[Nefarious Tea]

TLJ is an atrocious movie and it's not because it "departed from an established status quo". Its story is a giant plot hole ridden with a boatload of other plotholes that consequently makes it devoid of any tension. On top of that Johnson threw all the setup from TFA under the bus (making TFA suffer retroactively as a result) for the sake of "subverting the expectations", subscribing to the same school of storytelling as Dipshit and Dumbfuck from GoT that says subverting the expectations just for the sake of subverting the expectations is somehow a good thing just because. Rise of Skywalker is most certainly a worse film because of its predecessor, because it had to spend way too much time bending over backwards to put Johnson's subverted nonsense back on track. Hell, not just the subverted things, it also had to address bullcrap like the Holdo maneuver that ruined Star Wars' space combat forever.

Rise of Skywalker has issues of its own too of course. Palpatine's return is a terrible plot point and its not even really explained other than him simply repeating his line about unnatural abilities from The Revenge of the Sith. If there was one thing from Extended Universe that Disney threw to the garbage that should have never returned to canon it was this. And just like the Extended Universe material that dabbled in the topic and made it such a mess, RoS repeated the same mistake of going "In my story Palpatine will be 1000 more powerful than in the previous story" (to the point they even got his fleet-wide force lightning from the EU). Abrams also didn't know WTF to do with Knights of Ren. And turning both the Jedi and the Sith into an Avatar from The Last Airbender is almost as bad as midichlorians. But TLJ did not help this movie one iota.

I'll take Palpatine endlessly transferring his consciousness into myriad short-lived clones over the yuuzhan vong.

And that's a hill I'll fucking die on.

Also, the hyperspace ram thing (though I admit this has been debated to death) doesn't work normally because planets have gravity and fleets have ships whose primary purpose is generating artificial gravity wells, specifically so you can't jump into hyperspace to do damage like that. Or escape, for that matter; interdictor cruises are canon due to Rebels. It only worked because Hux was as incompetent as he was arrogant and never in a million years suspected a nearly out of fuel star cruiser would just turn around and ram his ship instead of coasting into target practice range like the last two did.

[Darththeo]

I'll take Palpatine endlessly transferring his consciousness into myriad short-lived clones over the yuuzhan vong.

And that's a hill I'll fucking die on.

I agree with you on that. The Vong were only introduced because they let Luke's rebuilt Jedi get too powerful so they needed someone to come in and knock them down a few pegs. People praise the EU, but forget how broken a character EU Luke was ... not Superman level broken, but still pretty broken.

[Eapoe]

What Luke fuck up had any weight to them? The biggest one is Empire where he loses a hand that gets replaced by the end of the movie.
The Wampa and cold nearly kill him (but this isn't a fuck up because he did nothing but attempt to survive), but Han saves him and he survived the night with some scars. Tusken Raiders in ANH don't count because he was out looking for his droid and was unaware of them ... and he was only knocked out because the plot needed it.
It appears to been accounted for failing with his first attempt with Jabba as the whole signal bs on the sail barge.
Seriously, what Luke fuck ups had any weight that stuck around with him? The only fuck up that fucked up long term was when he attempted to kill his nephew!

And your counters to Rey's fuck ups are factually wrong in some cases. So because one of her fuck ups help them blunder their way to safety it's not a fuck up? That's not what determines what is and isn't a fuck up.

ESB: he goes off on his own against the advice of Master Yoda, causing him to suffer defeat and the loss of a limb.
ANH: don’t really know if he had any fuck ups here. He is technically a kid who is learning things. No mistakes he had have any lasting ramifications.
RoJ: again, nothing had any lasting issues. You could technically argue his faith in his father’s remaining goodness he sensed which caused him to go marching into custody which lead to his defeat at the hand of the Emperor and the only thing saving him was his father’s sacrifice. Maybe if handled differently his father could have been saved and still lived.
So, as it stands, 1, maybe 2, of Luke’s fuck ups has lasting implications whereas Rey’s has none.
As to your last statement, nothing about what I said of Rey’s fuck ups is factually wrong. Everything I stated actually happens, meaning they are factually correct. I also never said she didn’t fuck up as the literal first line of my post states “her fuck ups don’t matter and have no consequences.” So that shows that I freely stated she has fuck ups, but that nothing ever happens because of them and actually lead to better outcomes than if she probably hadn’t done them. So, I’d appreciate it if you’d stop trying to twist my words around and bending logic to suit your needs, dig your head out of your butt, and actually read and comprehend a post before you respond to it.

[Endus]

Finally got a chance to see it (been avoiding the thread for spoilers). My 2 cents;

1> Rey's a Palpatine. Called it, like, way back;

Plus, we still don't know Rey's parentage. Kylo has no way of knowing, so just ignore that. She may have come from nobody, or Kylo might have been lying. Everyone thought she was a secret Skywalker, or a secret Kenobi. What if she were a secret Palpatine? Dude didn't seize power until later in life and had plenty of time to have kids, and no Jedi order to tell him not to.

2> Disappointed Ben didn't get a chance to live with what he'd done. I understand why they did it this way, but I'd have preferred he be the one to live on, with something to live up to and a past to make up for.

3> Generally, just fine. Some pacing issues, but I'll get into that a bit more after I quote someone. I'd rank it higher than RotJ, honestly; RotJ gets dragged down, a lot, because fucking Ewoks.

TLJ is an atrocious movie and it's not because it "departed from an established status quo". Its story is a giant plot hole ridden with a boatload of other plotholes that consequently makes it devoid of any tension. On top of that Johnson threw all the setup from TFA under the bus (making TFA suffer retroactively as a result) for the sake of "subverting the expectations", subscribing to the same school of storytelling as Dipshit and Dumbfuck from GoT that says subverting the expectations just for the sake of subverting the expectations is somehow a good thing just because.

I don't think it's Rian Johnson's fault. Or JJ Abrams'. I think the problem is that they're not the same director. They had different visions, and did things differently, and it really shows.

We needed Abrams to do this trilogy, and get Rian Johnson to do the next, or vice versa. It's the swapping back and forth that caused the narrative issues, IMO. Nothing "wrong" with either, it's going back and forth between them. My biggest issue with RoS is probably that it felt like two movies crammed into one. Take the "finding the keystone maguffin" plotline, replace the slow pursuit plotline in TLJ with a longer version of this instead, and you can pad it out enough to make it all come together in, IMO, a more fulfilling way.

I still think a lot of the complaints people are making are complete nonsense, or can be equally applied to the OT and thus just really boil down to "doesn't actually like Star Wars". There's issues, but RoS is mostly fine. Give one director the reigns for a cohesive trilogy next time.

[Darththeo]

ESB: he goes off on his own against the advice of Master Yoda, causing him to suffer defeat and the loss of a limb.
ANH: don’t really know if he had any fuck ups here. He is technically a kid who is learning things. No mistakes he had have any lasting ramifications.
RoJ: again, nothing had any lasting issues. You could technically argue his faith in his father’s remaining goodness he sensed which caused him to go marching into custody which lead to his defeat at the hand of the Emperor and the only thing saving him was his father’s sacrifice. Maybe if handled differently his father could have been saved and still lived.
So, as it stands, 1, maybe 2, of Luke’s fuck ups has lasting implications whereas Rey’s has none.
As to your last statement, nothing about what I said of Rey’s fuck ups is factually wrong. Everything I stated actually happens, meaning they are factually correct. I also never said she didn’t fuck up as the literal first line of my post states “her fuck ups don’t matter and have no consequences.” So that shows that I freely stated she has fuck ups, but that nothing ever happens because of them and actually lead to better outcomes than if she probably hadn’t done them. So, I’d appreciate it if you’d stop trying to twist my words around and bending logic to suit your needs, dig your head out of your butt, and actually read and comprehend a post before you respond to it.

She was literally multiple times tempted to the Dark Side not hesitating, per Luke, it's pull ... you are factually wrong. Just because you focus on one set of facts and ignore the rest doesn't make you factually correct. Rey had not one pull of the Dark Side but 2 in TLJ and 3 in RoS ... Luke had 2, one in ESB and one in RotS. If people say Luke was tempted by the Dark Side ... Rey was too.

Also, I address ESB ... it had no real weight because it doesn't appear to stop him from training of being on the path he was. His limb is replaced potentially just days later. Yes, he doubts if he could kill Vader, but he still wasn't certain if Vader was his father until Yoda confirmed it.

Your definition of fuck up is "It isn't a fuck up if things eventually work out in your favor." By your own logic, ESB cannot be a fuck up of Luke's because it lead to him realizing Vader was his father and thus laid the grown work for the defeat of the Emperor.

Also, I ignore your "consequence" bullshit because you tact it on without what you define as a consequence. And given your argument, it appears consequences don't matter if it all works out in the end anyway.

Rey nearly having Finn killed in TFA is a consequence. As is her costing Han his ship and his cargo. Those are consequences. Yes, she does manage to save Finn as well, but Finn should never have been in that position in the first place if not for her actions. Just because you fix a fuck up doesn't make it less of a fuck up.

[Endus]

ESB: he goes off on his own against the advice of Master Yoda, causing him to suffer defeat and the loss of a limb.
ANH: don’t really know if he had any fuck ups here. He is technically a kid who is learning things. No mistakes he had have any lasting ramifications.
RoJ: again, nothing had any lasting issues. You could technically argue his faith in his father’s remaining goodness he sensed which caused him to go marching into custody which lead to his defeat at the hand of the Emperor and the only thing saving him was his father’s sacrifice. Maybe if handled differently his father could have been saved and still lived.
So, as it stands, 1, maybe 2, of Luke’s fuck ups has lasting implications whereas Rey’s has none.
As to your last statement, nothing about what I said of Rey’s fuck ups is factually wrong. Everything I stated actually happens, meaning they are factually correct. I also never said she didn’t fuck up as the literal first line of my post states “her fuck ups don’t matter and have no consequences.” So that shows that I freely stated she has fuck ups, but that nothing ever happens because of them and actually lead to better outcomes than if she probably hadn’t done them. So, I’d appreciate it if you’d stop trying to twist my words around and bending logic to suit your needs, dig your head out of your butt, and actually read and comprehend a post before you respond to it.

Losing a limb doesn't "hurt" Luke in any appreciable sense at any point, ever, in any film. By the metric we're using, it doesn't really count as much of a loss. Especially since Luke uses the opportunity to escape Vader.

Luke turning himself in in RotJ is literally the plan, and the only way it comes close to failing is when he reaches out to the Dark Side, twice. Rey touches into the Dark Side a hell of a lot more. Including the time she blew up a transport vessel she thought Chewie was on. That's absolutely a "fuck up", and the film treats it like one.

I'm not saying these aren't possible "mistakes". I'm saying if you apply the same metric people are applying to Rey's mistakes, you couldn't count these against Luke. I'm saying it's a bad metric. The idea that the heroes win in the end so their mistakes don't matter is a bad idea. And it applies to Luke, 100%, who by that metric never fails, ever. Even him "fucking up" with Ben and running away to Ach-To works out, in the end.

Rey fucks up regularly in the films. That she wins in the end just says that this is not a tragedy, and she's a protagonist.

[tromage2]

Kathleen Kennedy said something like "We don't have any existing material to base these movies on". And IIRC Abrams also didn't do his homework. Johnson just wanted to do whatever they fuck he wanted.

They didn't want to make a Star Wars movie. They wanted to cash in on the franchise.

Rian even said he wanted his next trilogy of StarWars taking place in another universe without any connection with StarWars.... I was like lol serious just make a random movie then, but Disney is like yeah let’s do it just shows that morons run StarWars.

The moment they took over years ago and closed Lucasart a good runing gaming company, made all the EU material non canon was the moment you could see that ppl that dont care about the franchise took over.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Rian even said he wanted his next trilogy of StarWars taking place in another universe without any connection with StarWars.... I was like lol serious just make a random movie then, but Disney is like yeah let’s do it just shows that morons run StarWars.

The moment they took over years ago and closed Lucasart a good runing gaming company, made all the EU material non canon was the moment you could see that ppl that dont care about the franchise took over.

making the EU non canon was the best thing they could have done for the franchise the EU was a massive amount of baggage most of which was awful. any thing of value they can bring back into canon which they have been doing.

[Endus]

making the EU non canon was the best thing they could have done for the franchise the EU was a massive amount of baggage most of which was awful. any thing of value they can bring back into canon which they have been doing.

Seriously, I guarantee that what people think is iffy about the latest trilogy, there was stuff in the EU that was metric orders of fucking magnitude more asinine/ridiculous/etc. You can't seriously be complaining about the EU being made non-canon while also attacking the modern trilogy for things like lightspeed ramming or OP characters.

[Dangg]

Painfully average movie. Not as many awful moments like TLJ, just average. Trilogy wasn't well planned at all.