Please tell me how Nightborne being monks before druids makes sense?

[Nutri]

its easy, they dont need new art assets to make them a monk, they do for druid

I'm pretty sure this is main reason.

[qwerty123456]

Nightborne are too prissy. None of them are ever going to want to smell like wet dog ass.

[Raugnaut]

Blizzard seems to bring only dual druid combinations Tauren/Nightelf, Druid/Worgen, Zandalari/Kul'Tiran so there was no way they would do Voidelf/Lightforged Druids :P

Highmountain Tauren.

There is currently 1 extra Druid class for the Horde compared to the Alliance.

[Niroshi]

Class/race restrictions in general are kind of antiquated.

[Shakana]

talking about how nightborne are bringing the night, moon and stars of pre-sundering... I would like to point out that druidism isn't technically part of that.

Cenarius trained Malfurion and the sundering happened and it was following the sundering that the night elf culture seemed to jump more on the branch of druidism we know the darnassian night elves as holding so close...

Ye ok but let's say, nightbornes are basically the highborne (high elves) that changed due to nightwells and all, still, druids need contact with nature right, and kutlirans didn't train with cenarius either, or zandalari for that case.

Kultiran druidism origins are different from night elves or taurens and even gilneans and if so, i don't see why not using a more sophisticated druidism without living in the trees but still having a connection with nature and balance in a luxury way. A simple thing that made me want druids was a boss in Nighthold "Botanist" and they are pretty related to nature, sun, moon, and nature. So in here you can see suramar culture can take you to the botanist - nightborne druid. And botanist uses arcane to shapes his plants and so does balance druids. Very arguable. I would like for the horde to have elven druids. We have taurens and trolls, but never a elf in history on horde, not even blood elves, they are always so "corrupted" elves that can't never have the approval of being a druid. Nightborne i could see it, on nightbornes ways and not night elves druid ways, more like a botanist druid style.

[ravenmoon]

Personally if I was to design Druid forms I'd make them Void of the normal forms but with Aqir armor(or something resembling the heritage armor) with the required Elf ears(you know for Morphic Resonance, which some fan concepts for druid forms forget) for Bear, Cat, and travel, while Moonkin could be something entirely more interesting though with the bird elements that define moonkin, I just have a few ideas and no idea how to translate them into words

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They did have the botanist from the Nighthold raid though

Sometimes I wish I was an artist, I get these cool ideas in my head but just absolutely no way of showing htem cos I can't draw /visually design, so i have to spend essays trying to explain something that is far more easily shown than described. I know what you mean.


And yes, they had botanists and a high botanist Tel'arn, again showin gthe night elven nature love that is not absent in an arcane cetnric society., and never was. The high evles don't have nature absent, they live in a gorgeous lush forest, their homeland is verdant, green, vibrant, they amek it eternal spring, they have a farstrider element that is very nature lthriving, and every rednition of high elves has some nature love in it, but fans have this impression somehow that arcane loving highborne elves and their descednants hate nature or want ntohing to do with it.. which is not the case. . they confuse high elf anger with the druids for exiling them as some sort of hate for nature, and equally confuse the night elven ban on the arcane for hate for the arcane, meanwhile ignoring how the night elves continued to passively use the Well of eternity throughout the long vigil, and how clear the lore made it that the ban on the arcane was only for preventing the Legion's world ending return (which was an entirely justified reason for a ban) and not because of some arcane hate.. which would not make sense for a race that is made from the arcane and we are told has a high affinity for it, whetehr they practice it or not.

I jus tthink that people see forest and wood themes, then rather than imagine the night elves with their own identity, they imagine them with the clasic wood elf identity, from other fictions, having a hard time separating warcraft's vision with other fantasy. But blizzard themsevles are partly to blame, night elf development after classic, is very sluggish, wish only a little coming in Cataclysm, 6 years after laucn, then waitin ganother 6 years for legion (12 years ) after launch.. meanwhile all palyers have to go by is repeat levellin g experiences re-enforccing what is only mean tto be a period of trasnition, and when the stroy eventually carries on, they have their impressiosns so set in their mind, they find it hard to see them otherwise, even though the lore if you read it at a stretch quite clearly shows these other facets.

The nightborne are no exception, they are introduced as pre-sundering kaldorei, but with nature love amidst an arcane dominant society, this is the image of pre-sundering kaldorei soeciety. It's arcane empire and great cities were not nature holes. They sculpptured forests and cities alike the lore says, and Ancient trees wielded nature magic (as night elven duridsm was under developed) to combine with arcane magic to build their cities. Images of Zin'Azsahara in Warbringers shows a city with lush rooftop gardens, green and very nature friendly.

one is rather to thin k of them as an urban civilziation with nautre love, rather than not watning to do anything with nature.

This is further emphasized when the nightborne solution to arcane addiction comes through balance with nature. NAture and arcane in harmony whic is epos of the druid state of balance, also shown in the Valewalkers who were a team of highborne mages and proto night elf druids (because drudism didn't come a fully feldged thing till Malfurion after the sundering, but those that followed the art we now retroactively refer to as "proto" or pre druids).

Why is nature used and not the light for curing their arcane addiction unlike the blood elves? Because these aren't blood evles, this is the night elf solution, just becuase they join the horde doesn't make them all of a sudden more blood elven than they are night elven, they are literally a night elf group joining the horde, it is no surprsie they have this capacity or facet about them which I feel is the major distinguishing point, and is silly not to develop. Leave drudism and Elunism out of the nightborne and you make them purple night elf modelled blood elves with little unique about their identity. you can't or shouldn't divorce the kaldorei from the nightborne, in fact being on the horde is a reason to re-enforce it and show a kaldorei arcane society where the arcane is the major emphasis and Elunism and Druidsm are minor, but not absent, in contrast to the Darnassians where it is the other way round. You can get awider sense of the druidic and Elune culture by looking at the Darnassians, meanwhile for the highborne lovers amongst them they can get a wider sense of the night elven arcane culture by looking at the Nightborne on the horde.


It makes sense.


Ofc in this fantasy world anything can be made up to give anything, it is notable that Nightborne already have the foundations for that, carrying over to void elves is not a difficult thing to do lore wise either, you can base it on history and the high elf connection, but I would base it on the void which can directly connect the void elves to Druidsm based on the main thing of their identity, the void. Being able to understand nature through the void and vice versa can be a plot that is key to completely restoring and protecting the Emerald dream and afford void elves druids as well as some interesting new lore about both, just to give us the cool forms., but with the Nightborne coming into it as well, you can see a common ground too. The Nightborne can explore the arcane relation to Druidsm that balance druids and the Well of Eternity have been yelling at us in ways that druidsm so far has not expanded on. However with the void elves it can take new branches to develop the lore and racial interactions. Void elves having more reasons to associate with night elves especially with the Highborne group and now the Blackmoon, Druidsm also playing a role would be nice to actually create a strong elven friendship on the alliance, the complements and mirrors the Blood Elf/Nightborne, and at the moment would be more interesting because of how varied the night elves and void elves are. Something that the horde counterparts will gain when the nightborne Druidsm and Elunism become more apparent. Night elf - Void elf relationships is unique when the void through the Black moon and search to protect the Emerald Dream brings them close together, Blood elf - Nightborne relationship becomes unique when Elunism and Druidsm is part of the identity of the arcane Nightborne and causes changes in blood elf society.


These are two unique avenues both the main race societies don't have much of but can find something interesting to toy with.

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For Nightborne, embracing tranquility might be easier than shapeshifting?

It is the case with everyone. But then shapeshifting shouldn't be hard to master for a magically gifted race, iremember the reason night elves are great at druidsm is because they're magically gifted, this is not somehow weaker in the nightborne who are of that very stock with no weakening exile or transformation into another species with different characteristics and features.

i think they can handle it quite well. Look at the High botanist we fight.

[Shakana]

It is the case with everyone. But then shapeshifting shouldn't be hard to master for a magically gifted race, iremember the reason night elves are great at druidsm is because they're magically gifted, this is not somehow weaker in the nightborne who are of that very stock with no weakening exile or transformation into another species with different characteristics and features.

i think they can handle it quite well. Look at the High botanist we fight.

Hell ye and nightbornes are super magical gifted actually. Everything around them is magical. I mean one of their racials is even summoning a personal mailbox.

[ravenmoon]

Hell ye and nightbornes are super magical gifted actually. Everything around them is magical. I mean one of their racials is even summoning a personal mailbox.

Exactly, the nightborne show the magical side of the kaldorei (technically it's just visibly showing the arcane expertise of the kaldorei not shown in the darnassians) , the same talent is in the Darnassians, the Darnassians have just not been using the arcane side of their talent for 10k years, whiles the nightborne are basicall the Kaldorei that do use their arcane talent for 10k years. If the kaldorei Darnassians could do druidsm very well, ofc the nightborne can - in the pre-usndering era before arcane dominance overotok the other dicsciplines they had nature aptitude.

What surprises me is when people can't see the connection and struggle to imagine or visualise either nightborne as druids or night elves as mages, when it's so thick in their lore and their story. The druidic role in the nightborne story is a major part of the arc and the reason the nightborne survive, yet you get some players compeltely oblivious to a core part of their story that points directly to this class..

Truth is, if blizzard had given Nightborne druids, NO ONE would be surprised, especially if they saw Valewalker Farodin as the class leader. Not a single person, because its well wrapped in the lore. It is Highmountain Tauren I was puzzled to see druidsm, there is not a trace of it at all in their npcs or quest chain.. that the developers could somehow think that Highmountain Tauren can e druids but not nightborne makes me think they don't always do a good job communicating between their various teams. The creative team shoudl have stopped the systems team and shown them frankly outright that nightborne have a stornger casse.

but we know that class team are like the players, they probably just rushed through the story , didn't look at the details, once nightborne were going horde, they only thought of blood elf related classes, and completley missed this. But I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees, it'sright in front of anyones eyes, clear for all to see.

[Shakana]

Exactly, the nightborne show the magical side of the kaldorei, the same talent is in the Darnassians, the Darnassians have just not been using the arcane side of their talent for 10k years, whiles the nightborne are basicall the Kaldorei that do use their arcane talent for 10k years. If the kaldorei Darnassians could do druidsm very well, ofc the nightborne can - in the pre-usndering era before arcane dominance overotok the other dicsciplines they had nature aptitude.

What surprises me is when people can't see the connection and struggle to imagine or visualise either nightborne as druids or night elves as mages, when it's so thick in their lore and their story. The druidic role in the nightborne story is a major part of the arc and the reason the nightborne survive, yet you get some players compeltely oblivious to a core part of their story that points directly to this class..

Truth is, if blizzard had given Nightborne druids, NO ONE would be surprised, especially if they saw Valewalker Farodin as the class leader. Not a single person, because its well wrapped in the lore. It is Highmountain Tauren I was puzzled to see druidsm, there is not a trace of it at all in their npcs or quest chain.. that the developers could somehow think that Highmountain Tauren can e druids but not nightborne makes me think they don't always do a good job communicating between their various teams. The creative team shoudl have stopped the systems team and shown them frankly outright that nightborne have a stornger casse.

but we know that class team are like the players, they probably just rushed through the story , didn't look at the details, once nightborne were going horde, they only thought of blood elf related classes, and completley missed this. But I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees, it'sright in front of anyones eyes, clear for all to see.

To be even more simple: When a druid is in suramar under the illusion and turn into catform, they turn into "nightborne catform". Taurens were able to learn paladins, slowly nightborne could become druids too. In their own ways of balancing and connecting with the nature, lets not forget they were blocked from complete sun for 10k years but as for taurens took time to learn paladin, now that nightbornes are basically free, they can re-connect with nature overtime. Sometimes some stuff doesn't make sense, and they still did it. Like, let's say, a tauren all about nature learning shadow and holy magic. Which shadow and light already is a controversy and taurens racials ain't good for priest for obvious reasons. There are things worse than imagining a druid nightborne, that for me would make much more sense.

https://pikdo.biz/p/cupid_wow/205967...89_10571245451

Didn't know when you questing in suramar as druid you turn into a manasaber as cat form??? When we already have a manasaber cat form can we get nightborne druids?? - Follow my art blog @xyzcupid

[ravenmoon]

To be even more simple: When a druid is in suramar under the illusion and turn into catform, they turn into "nightborne catform". Taurens were able to learn paladins, slowly nightborne could become druids too. In their own ways of balancing and connecting with the nature, lets not forget they were blocked from complete sun for 10k years but as for taurens took time to learn paladin, now that nightbornes are basically free, they can re-connect with nature overtime. Sometimes some stuff doesn't make sense, and they still did it. Like, let's say, a tauren all about nature learning shadow and holy magic. Which shadow and light already is a controversy and taurens racials ain't good for priest for obvious reasons. There are things worse than imagining a druid nightborne, that for me would make much more sense.

https://pikdo.biz/p/cupid_wow/205967...89_10571245451

Yeah, it makes sense all round. Even when they were in their bubble, blocked off from light, they still had nature and gardens , that's why we meet Botanists wiielding nature magic like druids do and having developed a version of the art to a high standard - weren't the High Botanists 3 states solar, arcane and nature? 3 states all present in the balance druids? I can't imagine a race like that would be quickeer at learning the ways of the monk than Botanists becoming druids or nightborne becoming druids.

[Kithelle]

Druidism is mainly troll and tauren thing. Just as it should be. The fact that night elves have druids is an effect of them being trolls first.

But yes, nightborne druids make sense.

Wow....I can't believe I just read that? You do know who the first Druid is? Hint: It wasn't a Tauren or a Troll

[Shakana]

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Tell me, who was the first druid?

You know, he is actually right, Cenarius was first druid, whos first lived among yaungol that are the ancestors of the taurens near the well of eternity just like dark trolls that are the ancestors and the mutation to night elves. Then Cenarius teached Malfurion.

[ravenmoon]

Because they want more people playing monks and druids are the most work intensive class to give to a new race

Yeh probably, but they had no trouble spending time working on the Highmountain Tauren druids in a race that had no druidsm or connection or involvement to druids in their entire quest line, history telling, not a trace.. whereas druidsm plays a major role in the nightborne, and nature tender botansits are seen. They could have spent the time developing the nightborne forms rather than the Tauren ones and given usmore insight to the balance druid spec. Meanwhile the highmountain become druids brings nothing to the class, and one feels based on the highmountain zone story that they were just thrown in because Tauren are druids, and the class devs don't really communicate with the creative team.

Basically it's a mistake on their part, and it just continue to show us they are not as thorough with presenting their lore as we'd like.

[HoodKazekage]

The only difference between the nightborne and the nightelves is that the former is has mana literally coursing through their veins, they are beings of mana. Wouldn't make sense for them to be druids...

[ravenmoon]

You know, he is actually right, Cenarius was first druid, whos first lived among yaungol that are the ancestors of the taurens near the well of eternity just like dark trolls that are the ancestors and the mutation to night elves.

Actually he is wrong. Malfurion is the first druid.

The craft of nature magic becomes advanced enough to be a fully independent discipline in its own right after MAlfurion is taught by Cenarius and develops the use of the art for mortal races. Merely wielding a magic does not make you a master of it, nor does it make that magic usage a craft of its own.

For example, Trolls were using arcane, nature, death magic etc long before the elves and others, yet they did not the first mages, druids, DKs make. It took the elves to develop the arcane to the extenet it is a class , advanced enough as a unique discipline in the form it is today (note the careful wording). Similarly there were other night elves, tauren and other groups who had used nature magic, even studied with Cenarius before Malfurion, yet what they learnt wasn't sufficient enough to be called druidsm. This happens with Malfurion, this is why he is the first druid, not the first nature magic user, just the first druid.

Cenarius is considered as the Father of druidsm, it is from his teachings Malfurion creates the class. and notice how the class combines the night elven heritage arcane star and moon baed magic with the solar and nature one, extending to the EMerald dream and shapeshifting.

[Sesto]

if nightborne became druids it would be horde bias

[Shakana]

Actually he is wrong. Malfurion is the first druid.

The craft of nature magic because advanced enough to be a fully independent discipline in its own right after MAlfurion is taught by Cenarius and develops the use of the art for mortal races. Merely wielding a magic does not make you a master of it, nor does it make that magic usage a craft of its own.

trollsw ere using arcane, nature, death magic etc long before the elves and others, yet they did not the first mages, druids, DKs make. It took the elves to develop the arcane to the extenet it is a class , advanced enough. Similarly there were other night elves, tauren and other groups who had used nature magic, even studied with Cenarius before Malfurion, yet what they learnt wasn't sufficient enough to be called druidsm. This happens with Malfurion, this is why he is the first druid, not the first nature magic user, just the first druid.

Cenarius is considered as the Father of druidsm, it is from his teachings Malfurion creates the class. and notice how the class combines the night elven heritage arcane star and moon baed magic with the solar and nature one, extending to the EMerald dream and shapeshifting.

Well he is still right, cause on tauren mythology they are the "first druids".

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Forestlord...e_first_Druids

But in the "canonicity" part says "According to Micky Neilson and Blizzard historians, the first druid was, in fact, Malfurion Stormrage, not the tauren"
so to me i think it was canon for Malfurion to be the first druid, but i think taurens were supposed to be the first ones.

Ain't totally unrealistically to say that it's a tauren thing and a trolls thing, cause even the night elves came from trolls.

[ro9ue]

I generally agree with your sentiment it feels weird when elves aren't 'druidy'. But in the context of the World of Warcraft elves are slightly different. They aren't keepers of the forest (except Night Elves) as much as just wielders of all types of magic. So they're more sophisticated and noble.

I also think there's another component of finding balance across faction. Early on the Paladin counterpart was Shaman and those two classes were balanced between factions, but because the Paladin had 3 potential roles while Shaman only had 2, it wasn't a completely fair formula (WTB Earthwarden Shaman Tanks). At some point Druids became more Horde leaning, more primal and nature based. Crude. And my guess is Druid eventually became the Paladin equivalent.

[Syegfryed]

because they, like blood elves, do arcane magic shit, not nature magic shit, just because they are shit elves don't mean everyone need to be druids like night elves

monks are the easiest class to learn like warriors, you just need a trainer.

[Shakana]

because they, like blood elves, do arcane magic shit, not nature magic shit, just because they are shit elves don't mean everyone need to be druids like night elves

monks are the easiest class to learn like warriors, you just need a trainer.

Druidism is a lifestyle too, i agree, but when a race was forbidden to be in contact with nature for so long - 10000years, and somehow managed to have a botanist inside suramar for 10k years, just proves a point that no matter how nature and balance is taken from them, they still have it in them. Introducing druid on nightborne straight after freeing them, would be wrong, but with time, i can see them adding druid class to nightbornes.