Iranian General Sulemain and others reported killed in Baghdad airstrike

[Draco-Onis]

It's funny watching the posters here clutch their pearls about whether to give Trump or his top advisors credit for the strike. TDS is a real. Just call it a good decision and move on with your day. It's like they are paralyzed by the thought of having to give him credit for something.

Because Trump is known for his well thought out decisions? mind you two previous presidents had plenty of chances to kill him but didn't because the costs outweigh the benefits. This isn't Bin Laden he was advertising his location on social media this is a head of state we could have gotten him a number of times in the past including the last 3 years under Trump.

Most of their population is young, poor and desperate for Western policies. I don't think it would be nearly as bad as you claim.

Is this the part where you say we will be welcomed as liberators?

[Shadowferal]

Trump is crediting the intel community after shitting all over them...that should invoke skepticism and questions that demands answers.

[ati87]

Most of their population is young, poor and desperate for Western policies. I don't think it would be nearly as bad as you claim.

Oh the ''liberator'' argument, at this point this is a century plus old justification that only worked during WW2.

[I Push Buttons]

Have you heard of John Bolton and Mike Pompeo? regime change, nation building is what they are pushing the only reason they didn't get along was their giant egos.

Regime change doesn't imply occupation or nation building.

The US achieved regime change in Iraq and Afghanistan almost instantly... They tried the nation building experiment in the wake of that, it didn't work, one would assume they've learned from that.

If war becomes inevitable and they have to choose between:
- Intervene, topple the government, spend years and trillions of dollars occupying/rebuilding to no avail, then leave the country as quasi failed state.
Or...
- Intervene, topple the government, then fuck off and leave it as a quasi failed state immediately.

One would assume they would choose the latter going forward (at least with regard to the Middle East in particular) since either way, it will turn out the same.

[Skroe]

It depends solely on how the rest of the world -- most notably Russia -- views the first real move. Apparently killing off a general isn't quite there yet, who knew?

Iran has pretty good relations with Russia and China, but probably not enough that if, say, Iran sent planes and soldiers to attack the US mainland without asking first, for them to get in on that action. Which is part of the reason Iran won't do that.

Far end of the spectrum, if we wake up tomorrow to the news of "Trump bombs every Iran oil field in the country and kills thousands of civilians doing so" not only would Russia and China respond in earnest, likely so would a few other countries, but most importantly every ally we have would stay out of it. We still have...um...tepid relations with the UK, France and Germany, but not enough for them to sign up on that.

The best way for this to end is if the violence just flat-out ended, but I'm not sure that's realistic either.

Failing that, the escalation we've seen here could easily continue, with each step of the way being effectively handwaved as not much worse than the last one, nobody jumps in, and Iran uses proxies to harass US interests in the area and the US slapping any Iran military that dares leave its borders. Headline-grabbing deaths of innocents that go on for months, but never leading to rank-and-file boots on the ground style invasion. I believe this is the most likely result of the current setup, but doesn't really answer your question.

My real concern are the US soldiers duct-taped to Saudi oil fields. If the Iranians hit them, Trump will yell "Bigly!" and declare war National Security Lol and send everything he can afford to the region, leading to yet another US incursion that lasts for 3 years or so.

Unless US forces push into Iran, in which case, @Nelinrah is probably right.

I mean frankly folks just do not understand why modern nation states go to war and how difficult it is truly push one into it unless they have already adopted that policy (which clearly neither the US and Iran have).

Multiple times in this thread people have referenced Arch Duke Ferdinand. There is precisely nothing relevant about that comparison. Before World War II the primary rationale for governing by a regime was security and territorial expansion through conquest. The post-WWII rationale - economic expansion and trade - was not really a thing given that global merchantilist barriers persisted until after the war.

Ferdinand was an excuse to go to war. There countries involved were ready for one. The US and Iran are simply not and Neither will this be an excuse.

[Rhlor]

Iran ambassador to UN on Soleimani killing: 'the response for a military action is military action'
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...mp/2804237001/

[ati87]

Regime change doesn't imply occupation or nation building.

The US achieved regime change in Iraq and Afghanistan almost instantly... They tried the nation building experiment in the wake of that, it didn't work, one would assume they've learned from that.

If war becomes inevitable and they have to choose between:
- Intervene, topple the government, spend years and trillions of dollars occupying/rebuilding to no avail, then leave the country as quasi failed state.
Or...
- Intervene, topple the government, then fuck off and leave it as a quasi failed state immediately.

One would assume they would choose the latter going forward (at least with regard to the Middle East in particular) since either way, it will turn out the same.

Yea I do hope that you understand what the follow up results will be once you left everything in ruins.

[StillMcfuu]

This guy was an asshole and Iran definitely had it coming for an increasing string military actions it was taking against US political and economic pressure.

The reality is, this move was more in line with continually applying pressure to Iran, basically telling them that their military actions aren't going to work.

Soleimani was more a target of immediate convenience than a chess move in a pressure plan. The attack on US embassy is a major problem, imagine that happening in any western country, the host nation would have hell to pay, let alone the country that backed it.

I just hope that now that the cat is out the bag, Iran realizes any unjust "revenge" for this attack will only be met. It seems we've passed our point of letting years of Iran's fuckery to slide.

[Skroe]

Ehm, did you forget that you bombed the Chinese embassy?



Does anybody wipe their butt on international law more than the US?..

Whining about an embassy when you have walked over iraqi territory for how long now?..

"America is like Irish relatives, we never leave!" -Bill Maher

As for who is the biggest supporter of terrorism in the middle east...eh..Iran doesn't come close to the amount of groups supported by countries like Saudi-Arabia, USA (moderate head-choppers), Turkey.

Remember this guy u supported against Assad? Then he declared for isis. Now he fights for Turkey in wiping out Kurds..


Gtfo of iraq, its Shia like Syria, u have no right to be there. Iran is shia, ur the invader in the region, not iran. You only make things worse.

That was an entirely different situation and it’s a false equivalency to compare the two.

[I Push Buttons]

Yea I do hope that you understand what the follow up results will be once you left everything in ruins.

They are already a boon for terrorists and anti-American interests throughout the region as a nation state... Not to mention a looming nuclear threat.

So, at the very least, probably no worse than the status quo; potentially a lot better from the nuclear angle.

[Ihavewaffles]

That was an entirely different situation and it’s a false equivalency to compare the two.

No different at all, you targeted their embassy (Chinese territory) n bombed their citizens...n don't start that shit about old maps, only a complete moron would fall for that.


No...wait, it's a bit different...US embassy in iraq, just the country u keep invading n killed god knows how many people..

US embassy in iran, was that after u torpedoed their democracy n u were shifting around puppet dictators?

You are like that guy who gets into bar fights every weekend and on monday "it was in self-defense, honest!"

You have lost all credibility long ago, u are supposed to be out of iraq years ago...

[Graden]

https://twitter.com/SiffatZahra/stat...107888128?s=20

First Time In The History, Red Flag Unfurled Over The Holy Dome Of Jamkarān Mosque, Qom Iran.

Red Flag: A Symbol Of Severe Battle To Come.

Damn. That's scary tbh.

[PACOX]

https://twitter.com/SiffatZahra/stat...107888128?s=20

First Time In The History, Red Flag Unfurled Over The Holy Dome Of Jamkarān Mosque, Qom Iran.

Red Flag: A Symbol Of Severe Battle To Come.

Damn. That's scary tbh.

One of the comments in that section is right. If Iran does anything, cyber warfare will be part of it. They have very capable state and independent groups.

[Collegeguy]

No different at all, you targeted their embassy (Chinese territory) n bombed their citizens...n don't start that shit about old maps, only a complete moron would fall for that.

I don't think targeted means what you think it means. Obviously, Bill Clinton didn't target the Chinese embassy, it was an accident that was settled with China. Why are you bringing up ancient history anyway? Wanna talk about the barbary pirates next?

[Kreuger]

https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status...15765061693442

#BREAKING: Iraqi Hezbollah: Iraqi security forces must move away from American bases by a distance of no less than a thousand meters, starting from Sunday evening


Maybe a move to force the government to choose in tomorrows meeting ?

[Somewhatconcerned]

https://twitter.com/SiffatZahra/stat...107888128?s=20

First Time In The History, Red Flag Unfurled Over The Holy Dome Of Jamkarān Mosque, Qom Iran.

Red Flag: A Symbol Of Severe Battle To Come.

Damn. That's scary tbh.

More saber rattling.

Their entire navy and oil refineries would be gone in less than 24 hrs if they try anything.

[Ihavewaffles]

I don't think targeted means what you think it means. Obviously, Bill Clinton didn't target the Chinese embassy, it was an accident that was settled with China. Why are you bringing up ancient history anyway? Wanna talk about the barbary pirates next?

It was no accident, no more than US invading iraq for its "WMDs" was

[beanman12345]

Worst one since Vietnam.

Iran is a country roughly four times as big as Iraq, about double the population, and has a lot of mountainous terrain running straight through it. They're also a much more nationally united people, unlike e.g afghanistan.

The US could topple their government, but the insurgency afterwards would sting them hard.

Let's not forget their cyber capabilities, of which we are weak to defend. also their ability to completely shut down the Persian gulf, which would completely fuck us for at least a year while we take out their anti air capabilities.

[Ihavewaffles]

What a bluff lol. Iran isn't going to do shit to any American lol.

Some here may be too young to remember bombing of US troops in Lebanon in 1983


"Rather than using this horrible event to push their agenda, Pence and McMaster should have praised President Reagan for having the foresight not to expand the war after the attack, as many of his hawkish advisors wanted. Instead, Reagan listened to my then-boss, Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger, and strategically redeployed the Marines to their ships; that is, withdrew them from Lebanon in early 1983. Moreover, as a result of this tragedy, the Pentagon developed what became known as the Powell Doctrine, which established stringent criteria Washington should use before becoming involved in wars of choice."

[ParanoiD84]

https://twitter.com/SiffatZahra/stat...107888128?s=20

First Time In The History, Red Flag Unfurled Over The Holy Dome Of Jamkarān Mosque, Qom Iran.

Red Flag: A Symbol Of Severe Battle To Come.

Damn. That's scary tbh.

Iran could not beat iraq in the 8 years war between 1980 and 88 meanwhile it took the us a week and that was when the iraqi army was one of the largest in the world, beating the army that is not the little insurgency after.

Im sure they do something to not loose face in the region but nothing major.

Nice flag though.