Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Benggaul]

This 100%. Dems have made themselves the "Team America: World Police" party now. Look at how Tulsi has been treated from the very start and called out as a Russian asset just for being anti-war. If Dems are labelling you as a Russian asset, simply because you don't believe in American exceptionalism-based intervention and regime changes, that says a lot about where the DNC really stands now.

Bullshit alert!

Bernie's anti-war and I'm fairly sure Warren is too. Tulsi gets treated the way she does because she's VERY friendly with Assad and Putin and, frankly, flew off the deep end. Add in her little protest vote during the Impeachment and it's really no great mystery why she's not really the favorite of most Democrats (or people who vote for them).

[downnola]

Bullshit alert!

Bernie's anti-war and I'm fairly sure Warren is too. Tulsi gets treated the way she does because she's VERY friendly with Assad and Putin and, frankly, flew off the deep end. Add in her little protest vote during the Impeachment and it's really no great mystery why she's not really the favorite of most Democrats (or people who vote for them).

You're 100% right, but it's easier to play the victim of the pro-war establishment and pro-war corporate media than it is to address her cozy relationship with right-wing leaders like Modi and Assad. It's convenient to ignore that she's one of the few candidates committed to continuing the forever war on terror in the middle east while others advocate for the U.S. to play a lesser role in the middle east. It makes more sense when you remember that the same losers who claimed Trump was the "anti-war" peace candidate are also claiming Tulsi is the same thing. It's more "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" mentality than it is about facts and policy.

[Theodarzna]

You're 100% right, but it's easier to play the victim of the pro-war establishment and pro-war corporate media than it is to address her cozy relationship with right-wing leaders like Modi and Assad. It's convenient to ignore that she's one of the few candidates committed to continuing the forever war on terror in the middle east while others advocate for the U.S. to play a lesser role in the middle east. It makes more sense when you remember that the same losers who claimed Trump was the "anti-war" peace candidate are also claiming Tulsi is the same thing. It's more "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" mentality than it is about facts and policy.

What is a cozy relationship? "I don't want to go to war" isn't necessarily a cozy relationship and if you don't intend to be completely isolationist, and you don't want to go to war, than you know, diplomacy becomes a necessary thing and that does mean going up to people and not spitting on them.

[PACOX]

So who's to blame? The public, who can't stand and don't watch CSPAN/the more news-heavy CNN from past decades, or the 24/7 cable news channels who drive revenue through advertising, which leads to shock valuations on what to put on the air? I think one could argue it's more of a culture problem than anything else, because heavy-news driven channels exist in the rest of the world without the inherent dramatic undertones our news seeks to exploit. Unfortunately, we're exporting that culture around the world, which is why the whole problem with the BBC and Brexit happened as well.

CSPAN is dry but it was the station to watch during the impeachment hearings. No talking heads selling entertainment. Raw interviews, raw call ins, none of the nonsense.

I think if a station could take CSPANs raw takes and make them a little more palatable they could carve out nice little niche.

It shows in the debates. I feel like the smaller outlets hosted the best debates. All CNN debates were trash.

[Shalcker]

You're 100% right, but it's easier to play the victim of the pro-war establishment and pro-war corporate media than it is to address her cozy relationship with right-wing leaders like Modi and Assad.

It has been adressed plenty of times though; at this point if you don't know why she is not afraid to talk to them rather then hide behind blind condemnations you're just refusing to listen.

[NED funded]

So that video where Biden supposedly praised Paul Ryan, fake news.

The reuters news story is here:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1ZH0MM

The Sanders campaign is doubling down. Trump and Sanders same side of the coin when it comes to how they ran their campaign

[Themius]

So that video where Biden supposedly praised Biden, fake news.

The reuters news story is here:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1ZH0MM

The Sanders campaign is doubling down. Trump and Sanders same side of the coin when it comes to how they ran their campaign

Want more?

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-social-secur/

Sen. Bernie Sanders argues that former Vice President Joe Biden sided with a Republican effort to cut Social Security.

"In 2018, Biden lauded Paul Ryan for proposing cuts to Social Security and Medicare," wrote the Sanders campaign in a Jan. 7 newsletter. The night before on CNN, Sanders had attacked Biden’s record on Social Security and Medicare.

Ryan is a former Republican House speaker who proposed sweeping changes to Social Security that were never enacted.

We found that the Sanders campaign newsletter distorts what Biden said about Ryan’s plan.

The Sanders campaign pointed to a speech Biden gave to the Brookings Institution in April 2018. Biden’s overall message was that "folks in the middle class are in trouble" and that the tax code "is widely skewed toward taking care of those at the very top."

Biden argued that tax cuts were creating more debt, putting middle class programs at risk.

The Sanders campaign plucked out what Biden said about Ryan, but ignored the complete passage which showed that Biden wanted Social Security and Medicare protected, and to accomplish that goal would require making changes to the tax code. The thrust of his point about the tax code was that he was saying it does too much to help the uber rich.

This is what Biden said about Ryan:

"Paul Ryan was correct when he did the tax code. What’s the first thing he decided we had to go after?" Biden said, with a slight smirk. Biden then leaned into the microphone and said in a deep menacing voice: "Social Security and Medicare."

Biden continued: "Now, we need to do something about Social Security and Medicare." He then sarcastically whispered: "That’s the only way you can find room to pay for it."

The Biden campaign said that he was mocking Ryan.

To understand Biden’s tone, you have to actually watch and listen to his words. The snippet of written text, which the Sanders’ campaign newsletter used, doesn’t relay Biden’s full point.

The Sanders campaign omits what Biden said next (our emphasis is in bold):

"Now, I don’t know a whole lot of people in the top one-tenth of 1 percent or the top 1 percent who are relying on Social Security when they retire. I don’t know a lot of them. Maybe you guys do. So we need a pro-growth, progressive tax code that treats workers as job creators, as well, not just investors; that gets rid of unprotective loopholes like stepped-up basis; and it raises enough revenue to make sure that the Social Security and Medicare can stay, it still needs adjustments, but can stay; and pay for the things we all acknowledge will grow the country."

[Elegiac]

So that video where Biden supposedly praised Paul Ryan, fake news.

The reuters news story is here:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1ZH0MM

The Sanders campaign is doubling down. Trump and Sanders same side of the coin when it comes to how they ran their campaign

This is kinda mystifying, especially considering there's the actually true black mark of Biden being instrumental in making it impossible to discharge student debt through bankruptcy.

[eschatological]

Oh man, BERNIE'S A LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



....or, he's just politicking, just like Warren was.

The difference will be how Bernie's followers will react to this, dismissing it as another attempt by the MSM to shove Bernie down, and claiming he was "technically right" because it was a real quote......just devoid of any and all context.

[Fugus]

Want more?

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-social-secur/

I have watched the full video, it makes it pretty clear what he intended to do.

He was proposing "Cutting Social Security and Medicare to save it" not actually adjusting taxes or anything to pay for it. This is one where I will have to disagree with politifact on. I even posted the video on this website a few times to prove my point.

[eschatological]

I have watched the full video, it makes it pretty clear what he intended to do.

He was proposing "Cutting Social Security and Medicare to save it" not actually adjusting taxes or anything to pay for it. This is one where I will have to disagree with politifact on. I even posted the video on this website a few times to prove my point.

Wow, only took one post.

[Elegiac]

Oh man, BERNIE'S A LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



....or, he's just politicking, just like Warren was.

The difference will be how Bernie's followers will react to this, dismissing it as another attempt by the MSM to shove Bernie down, and claiming he was "technically right" because it was a real quote......just devoid of any and all context.

Time to spam Sanders with snake emojis I guess. /s

- - - Updated - - -

I have watched the full video, it makes it pretty clear what he intended to do.

He was proposing "Cutting Social Security and Medicare to save it" not actually adjusting taxes or anything to pay for it. This is one where I will have to disagree with politifact on. I even posted the video on this website a few times to prove my point.

Fucking predictable. Called it @eschatological.

[Fugus]

Time to spam Sanders with snake emojis I guess. /s

- - - Updated - - -





Fucking predictable. Called it @eschatological.

No, not in the slightest. I am not saying the whole "It's technically right". It is FLAT OUT RIGHT. Huge difference there. I have looked at and even posted that video on here a LONG time ago. Long before this came up here and told plenty of people that they can expect to see that video plastered wall to wall during the general if he make it there.

That part is fucking predictable. And I have warned about this video for a long time now because it says exactly that.

You can ask @cubby as I showed it to him LONG before this came up.

[Themius]

I have watched the full video, it makes it pretty clear what he intended to do.

He was proposing "Cutting Social Security and Medicare to save it" not actually adjusting taxes or anything to pay for it. This is one where I will have to disagree with politifact on. I even posted the video on this website a few times to prove my point.

"Now, I don’t know a whole lot of people in the top one-tenth of 1 percent or the top 1 percent who are relying on Social Security when they retire. I don’t know a lot of them. Maybe you guys do. So we need a pro-growth, progressive tax code that treats workers as job creators, as well, not just investors; that gets rid of unprotective loopholes like stepped-up basis; and it raises enough revenue to make sure that the Social Security and Medicare can stay, it still needs adjustments, but can stay; and pay for the things we all acknowledge will grow the country."

There is another video from the 90s where Biden says he even suggested a freeze but given how he says it sounds as though this was a last resort. And a freeze, is not a cut.

The current story is about 2018, and he simply wasn't implicated with what Bernie's camp alleged.

[Elegiac]

No, not in the slightest. I am not saying the whole "It's technically right". It is FLAT OUT RIGHT. Huge difference there. I have looked at and even posted that video on here a LONG time ago. Long before this came up here and told plenty of people that they can expect to see that video plastered wall to wall during the general if he make it there.

That part is fucking predictable. And I have warned about this video for a long time now because it says exactly that.

You can ask @cubby as I showed it to him LONG before this came up.

"Now, I don’t know a whole lot of people in the top one-tenth of 1 percent or the top 1 percent who are relying on Social Security when they retire. I don’t know a lot of them. Maybe you guys do. So we need a pro-growth, progressive tax code that treats workers as job creators, as well, not just investors; that gets rid of unprotective loopholes like stepped-up basis; and it raises enough revenue to make sure that the Social Security and Medicare can stay, it still needs adjustments, but can stay; and pay for the things we all acknowledge will grow the country."

It's not progressive policy, but it's hardly Reagonomics either.

Is it seriously that fucking difficult to just acknowledge that Bernie is a politician?

[eschatological]

But the point is the campaign EMail railed against Biden for praising and agreeing with Paul Ryan, which he didn't do.

[Elegiac]

But the point is the campaign EMail railed against Biden for praising and agreeing with Paul Ryan, which he didn't do.

Even now you've got Paul Sirota spamming Twitter trying to explain this away.

[Fugus]

There is another video from the 90s where Biden says he even suggested a freeze but given how he says it sounds as though this was a last resort. And a freeze, is not a cut.

The current story is about 2018, and he simply wasn't implicated with what Bernie's camp alleged.

This video wasn't from the 90s this was one from maybe a year or 2 ago on CSPAN. I was warning that the moment we hit the general that it would show up and be used against him. The only thing I wasn't expecting was it to be brought up before then because the DNC have been treating Biden with kid gloves trying to protect him.

And when I saw the video, he didn't look like he was talking about freezing it, he looked like he was talking about cutting it.

[Elegiac]

This video wasn't from the 90s this was one from maybe a year or 2 ago on CSPAN. I was warning that the moment we hit the general that it would show up and be used against him. The only thing I wasn't expecting was it to be brought up before then because the DNC have been treating Biden with kid gloves trying to protect him.

And when I saw the video, he didn't look like he was talking about freezing it, he looked like he was talking about cutting it.

Cool - nobody seems to agree with you.

Chances are it's not everyone else that is incorrect.

[eschatological]

This video wasn't from the 90s this was one from maybe a year or 2 ago on CSPAN. I was warning that the moment we hit the general that it would show up and be used against him. The only thing I wasn't expecting was it to be brought up before then because the DNC have been treating Biden with kid gloves trying to protect him.

And when I saw the video, he didn't look like he was talking about freezing it, he looked like he was talking about cutting it.

Here's the video the campaign EMail was based on. I don't know if there is a more complete version, it's what I could find quickly by following the links from the PolitiFact article:



He's clearly being sarcastic when he's talking about Paul Ryan. He mentions, multiple times, how the tax code needs to be adjusted to 1) not overwhelmingly favor the rich, and 2) help workers.

About the best you can do from Bernie's standpoint to criticize him is that he says, "wealthy people are just as patriotic as poor people," and suggests wealthy people are not automatically evil. He also says SS and Medicare need "adjustments" but specifically says it in a sentence where he says the tax code needs to be changed so we can keep SS/Medicare.

Your read on the video is just.....wrong.