Does anyone else think Shadowlands looks like time gated rep grinds: the expansion?

[Nerovar]

I thought everyone wanted MORE timegating stuff to prevent farming like AP. Or do you want some infinite farm back?

Wasn't that the whole point of 8.3?

I think infinite farming is okay until you reach a certain plateau. From there on, progression should be more slow and linear (e.g. PvP gear in WoD - grind Ashran to get a full set of honor gear in a day but getting your conquest gear is timegated by conquest caps (unless you got the catch up bonus)). This creates an environment where you can spend a lot of time on relatively low level activities and get rewarded for it without getting an insane advantage in the long term and once you reach said plateau the game doesn't require you to spend huge amounts of time/effort in order to stay competetive.
The fact of the matter is that you can't have both meaningful endless grind progression and a reasonable limit to what players will feel forced to do in order to not fall behind.

So, what they could do is loosen the restrictions on rep factions, flying, low ilvl (on par with lfr) gear and all the other stuff that only gives you a very limited advantage and at the same time tighten the restrictions on the actual high level gear/power progression so that you don't feel forced to non-stop grind m+, WQs etc.
I'm convinced this would make the game much better and soothe a lot of the complains we've heard over the last years. Of course, in-game activities would shift more towards playing alts and there would probably be less time played on your actual main but overall I think it's far healthier and way more satisfying than what we have now.

[Egomaniac]

The main feature of the expansion, Covenants, just looks it will be nothing but time gated rep grinds by doing world quests, and it's going to be extremely important to do, because it will unlock new abilities that are probably very much required to do content like raiding, Mythic+, etc.

Then on top of that, it's more time gated rep grinds to unlock flying through Pathfinder. Probably even more time gated rep grinds to unlock gear and cosmetic rewards.

And then to top it all off, I hope you like being slowed down in your content consumption even more, because Titanforging is here to stay.

It seems like every design decision lately that Blizzard makes has only one goal in mind: slow down our content consumption to increase the MAU numbers by keeping people playing for longer, and make sure they're logging in every day by stopping their progress for the day and telling them to come back tomorrow. When do we get content that is just designed to be rewarding and fun to play through? Will this game ever go back to being just a well designed video game, and not a cash cow for Blizzard to design to milk the most profits from to funnel to other projects?

I don't think it ever will honestly, I know people will still buy and play Shadowlands, they'll say "time gating everything is fine, people shouldn't be able to rush through the content and then complain about having nothing to do", and Blizzard will never stop tacking a time gate on everything or making every design decision based around slowing down our content consumption as much as possible.

I can't stand it anymore, it has completely ruined my enjoyment of this game, and I don't think I can stand to play through another time gated rep grinds: the expansion. If Shadowlands isn't that, I'd be glad to give it a shot, but everything I've seen about it so far pretty much points to exactly that.

Sounds like you've already decided you aren't going to like Shadowlands. Maybe do yourself a favour and just not play it?

[Mirishka]

The main feature of the expansion, Covenants, just looks it will be nothing but time gated rep grinds by doing world quests, and it's going to be extremely important to do, because it will unlock new abilities that are probably very much required to do content like raiding, Mythic+, etc.
snip

I don't think they've shown enough of the expansion for you or anyone else (outside Blizz) to have any idea what it 'looks' like.

[Nerovar]

Sounds like you've already decided you aren't going to like Shadowlands. Maybe do yourself a favour and just not play it?

What you said is perfectly valid and logical but that's missing the point because this ultimately comes down to emotions. Most people don't really want to quit WoW. They want to enjoy the game and are genuinely passionate about it. They just don't want to play this WoW and they feel "left behind" because the game stopped catering to their way of playing after being "loyal customers" for over a decade.

[cparle87]

You do not posses a modicum of intelligence do you?

People are not angry about world quests and daily's being time gated they are angry that they are now a necessity for power progression and are now a critical part of the game play loop.

In the past time gated daily quests could get you a new mount or the option to get a new piece of gear not give you 8k dps. Not to mention we had tabards that we could use to accomplish our goals essentially keeping us in parts of the game we enjoyed most.

Reps have had quality gear behind them ever since day one, often vital things you couldn't progress through raids without. Do you have any argument besides personal insults followed by incorrect arguments?

[Egomaniac]

What you said is perfectly valid and logical but that's missing the point because this ultimately comes down to emotions. Most people don't really want to quit WoW. They want to enjoy the game and are genuinely passionate about it. They just don't want to play this WoW and they feel "left behind" because the game stopped catering to their way of playing after being "loyal customers" for over a decade.

It's no different than continuing to watch a show after you believe it has gone to shit and then every season complaining that they are still continuing to drive the show in a direction you don't like. At some point, you just need to move on with your life. Find a new show, new game, etc.

[DemonDays]

"In the past" people also complained about "being forced to grind" for their power progression. Since just handing you the full power on day one would render the system pointless, this was pretty much their only option.

People are neither willing to wait, nor work for their power progression, it would appear.

The only power progression we had in the past was getting gear. That's it. Stop trying to re-write history.

When the only progression was gear the game was also at 12million subscribers. Weird that hey?

Now you have AP, Multiple Essence grinds, Corruption, Cloak, Gear, Azerite and reps.

To top it all off all of these are time-gated.^


You really need to try harder dude.

[Dystemper]

More store mounts and cash shop items then ever before tho

[huth]

[QUOTE=DemonDays;52057190]The only power progression we had in the past was getting gear. That's it. Stop trying to re-write history.

Weird, i remember Artifacts and the Heart of Azeroth quite well. You seem to have forgotten that "the past" at this point also includes Legion and BfA up to 8.2.5.

When the only progression was gear the game was also at 12million subscribers. Weird that hey?

Not really, no. WoW has always fit the product lifecycle quite well.

[Erlking]

I am sure grinding and time gating will be present in SL and I will definitely buy the game when it comes out. But I will play for a month or two enjoy all the new stuff and story then stop. Won't waste my time doing the same thing over and over again.

[DemonDays]

You use the word probably a lot to instantly condem an expansion that hasn't shown much and is still in development.

Are we really going to start this song and dance again?

Just wait for Alpha.
It's just Alpha, wait for Beta.
It's just Beta, their internal build is usually weeks ahead.
It's just launch dude they'll fix it.
Just wait for x.1 patch man.

Fuck I guess they aren't fixing it. Can't you just wait for 10.0 pre-patch?

- - - Updated - - -

The main feature of the expansion, Covenants, just looks it will be nothing but time gated rep grinds by doing world quests, and it's going to be extremely important to do, because it will unlock new abilities that are probably very much required to do content like raiding, Mythic+, etc.

Then on top of that, it's more time gated rep grinds to unlock flying through Pathfinder. Probably even more time gated rep grinds to unlock gear and cosmetic rewards.

And then to top it all off, I hope you like being slowed down in your content consumption even more, because Titanforging is here to stay.

It seems like every design decision lately that Blizzard makes has only one goal in mind: slow down our content consumption to increase the MAU numbers by keeping people playing for longer, and make sure they're logging in every day by stopping their progress for the day and telling them to come back tomorrow. When do we get content that is just designed to be rewarding and fun to play through? Will this game ever go back to being just a well designed video game, and not a cash cow for Blizzard to design to milk the most profits from to funnel to other projects?

I don't think it ever will honestly, I know people will still buy and play Shadowlands, they'll say "time gating everything is fine, people shouldn't be able to rush through the content and then complain about having nothing to do", and Blizzard will never stop tacking a time gate on everything or making every design decision based around slowing down our content consumption as much as possible.

I can't stand it anymore, it has completely ruined my enjoyment of this game, and I don't think I can stand to play through another time gated rep grinds: the expansion. If Shadowlands isn't that, I'd be glad to give it a shot, but everything I've seen about it so far pretty much points to exactly that.

Yep.

AP still exists. Anima Power. However they claim it will be capped weekly.

They also say you need Anima to level up Soulbinds. So that seems time-gated.

Then you have Covenant rep grinds on top of that. Which will definitely be time-gated by a limited number of shitty WQs per day.

[Darkeon]

I don't think we have enough data and information to know how the new systems of Shadowlands will work, namely Covenants. It's quite easy to find flaws and downsides if all we have is assumptions.

For now we can only wait till enough people have experienced the game at the expansion's testing phase and, if it does come out as a negative experience, make enough noise to hopefully have something changed.
Worst case scenario, once the expansion is shipped and these systems are major letdowns, the people unhappy with them will either not purchase the game or simply unsubscribe. But that's a conversation to be had then.

[Raisei]

Everyone that has decided off of what little information we have that Shadowlands is going to be bad, that is has no endgame content, that it is a more grindy expansion then previous ones should just go away.

You are not going by facts you are going by opinions that are based on negative emotions spread by drama inciting people on the net of which some are actively making a profit of that drama in the form of video clicks.
If you are unable to use your own judgement and wait for more information to be released then just go away. Wave your "The End is Nigh"-sign into other peoples faces and leave us alone.

[huth]

Yep.

AP still exists. Anima Power. However they claim it will be capped weekly.

They also say you need Anima to level up Soulbinds. So that seems time-gated.

Then you have Covenant rep grinds on top of that. Which will definitely be time-gated by a limited number of shitty WQs per day.

Wrong. Anima isn't capped, how much Anima you can provide to improve your standing in your covenant is. Anima isn't AP, it's a currency that supposedly will also be used to obtain cosmetics and other such bonuses.

Leveling your Soulbinds and the rep "grind" are the same thing.

[ArmatisUlv]

Are we really going to start this song and dance again?

Not sure what you're going on about. The only thing they've talked about is how covenants are going to work. Have you been on Alpha or Beta to confirm that reps and covenants are time-gated? I mean, if you have I would like some proof but I am fence sitting until I see something showing me that Shadowlands is going to be the time-gate expansion.

[david0925]

Not sure what you're going on about. The only thing they've talked about is how covenants are going to work. Have you been on Alpha or Beta to confirm that reps and covenants are time-gated? I mean, if you have I would like some proof but I am fence sitting until I see something showing me that Shadowlands is going to be the time-gate expansion.

There's not a lot of information about Shadowlands, but people are pessimistic about it because of they don't listen to feedbacks for alpha/beta for both Legion and BFA, if not even earlier, even about the most glaring issues. So whatever bad things they put in the game or break in development now will most likely not change until later into the expansion, going off past record.

So while it is not fair to judge SL already due to lack of information, the fear that -if- anything is bad with it, the bad thing will stick for a while, is not unfounded.

[Lolites]

There's not a lot of information about Shadowlands, but people are pessimistic about it because of they don't listen to feedbacks for alpha/beta for both Legion and BFA, if not even earlier, even about the most glaring issues. So whatever bad things they put in the game or break in development now will most likely not change until later into the expansion, going off past record.

So while it is not fair to judge SL already due to lack of information, the fear that -if- anything is bad with it, the bad thing will stick for a while, is not unfounded.

sure, but saying its shit without any information doesnt help to improve it...
and since they dont listen to actual feedback WHY ON EARTH would they listen to uninformed pointless whining?

[Biggles Worth]

Reps have been time gated for as long as there have been dailies, which was BC. Why are people acting like it's a new thing that the new evil ActiBlizz has put in deliberately to ruin their fun?

As for your whole conspiracy theory about how they're deliberately slowing us down to milk MAUs, here's a piece of info for you. It is literally impossible to create content at the pace the playerbase consumes it. We had people complaining on day three of the expansion that they'd levelled to max, did all the mythic 0s, and then came to the forums crying "is that everything? where's the content?"

Not all reps were time gated. There have been reputation grinds in the past where if you wanted to put in the work you can get it done. Netherwing, pirates, booty bay, the felwood, the tiger rep, gordok ogre suit to name a few.

[cparle87]

Not all reps were time gated. There have been reputation grinds in the past where if you wanted to put in the work you can get it done. Netherwing, pirates, booty bay, the felwood, the tiger rep, gordok ogre suit to name a few.

Those were the days when Blizzard was ignorant enough to trust their playerbase to have some self control and not damage their health or even kill themselves, creating terrible publicity, for the company. There's a reason realm first achievements were removed.

[Heladys]

Oh for fuck sakes.