Paladin Raid Tanking

[Heathy]

I thought palas weren't that bad at tanking undeads and demons because exorcism works sorta like a taunt in terms of threat gen.

i'm on horde this time so i don't have to worry about palas. suffice to say if you wanna actually tank as a pala, you're best off waiting for tbc as there were places where paladin tanks shined. like morogrim, hyjal waves etc holy wrath works in karazhan because everything is undead. just places where palas were actually good or even the best at aoe snap aggro from consecrate.

[arkanon]

You've done nothing but try to derail the thread. I don't have to sit and prove anything to you. I know that when I did it, I hadn't heard of it. It was decided upon as I stated. We looked at my mana, how much healing I was doing compared to the other healer, and decided as a group it was the best course of action and that's good enough for me.

I didn't say I created the meta, but it's funny how you only call me out and not Machismo for claiming something similar. Apparently, I've struck some sort of nerve with you. Maybe you should just put me on ignore or stop replying to the thread if you don't have any plans on actually discussing anything other than attacking me.

As with every single other person, I have told you why this would never be the case - why gear a tank who can't only tank some fights, when you can gear a tank who can tank them all without any issues. Risk / reward. There is no reward here, only risk - it's a bad idea and won't be used.

[Coldfrostzero]

id rather bring a warrior who can taunt and do dmg vs a paladin spamming a buff, contributing nothing but threat. waste of a roster spot.

A Paladin would also be able to do some damage, obviously not like a Warrior would. Seems silly to think of the tank as needing to do damage if the DPS theoretically never had to slow down. If your DPS can open up earlier and longer, wouldn't that be a moot point? You really hate the idea of Paladin tanking that much, that even if it ended up being the best thing, you'd never accept it?

Again, this taunt argument. It is completely irrelevant on fights that cannot be taunted or don't require a taunt. If your Paladin tank has threat on Nef and can hold threat simply spamming 1 button as opposed to a Warrior gets put into Berserker Stance and the raid has to slow their DPS down, isn't the Warrior now the worse tank? You can't taunt Nef so if someone pulls threat they are probably dead, now you're down a whole person, and probably one of your highest DPS.

As with every single other person, I have told you why this would never be the case - why gear a tank who can't only tank some fights, when you can gear a tank who can tank them all without any issues. Risk / reward. There is no reward here, only risk - it's a bad idea and won't be used.

See Nef example.

[Machismo]

A Paladin would also be able to do some damage, obviously not like a Warrior would. Seems silly to think of the tank as needing to do damage if the DPS theoretically never had to slow down. If your DPS can open up earlier and longer, wouldn't that be a moot point? You really hate the idea of Paladin tanking that much, that even if it ended up being the best thing, you'd never accept it?

Again, this taunt argument. It is completely irrelevant on fights that cannot be taunted or don't require a taunt. If your Paladin tank has threat on Nef and can hold threat simply spamming 1 button as opposed to a Warrior gets put into Berserker Stance and the raid has to slow their DPS down, isn't the Warrior now the worse tank? You can't taunt Nef so if someone pulls threat they are probably dead, now you're down a whole person, and probably one of your highest DPS.



See Nef example.

And you are ignoring that a warrior simply has more tools at his disposal for tanking, and can be utilized for EVERY FIGHT. It's simply inefficient to give loot to a class that will only be using it some of the time, compared to someone who will be utilizing it just as well, if not better... all the time.

I could give Thunderfury to a rogue, but it is better spent on a warrior.

[Mukind]

It's BiS for AOE tanking

Not for single target

Although if you stacked enough of one class it would become best single target by such a wide margin it would be crazy....But unless it's warriors or rogues not worth.

Not to mention GL to your off tanks lul

[Not Againnn]

A Paladin would also be able to do some damage, obviously not like a Warrior would. Seems silly to think of the tank as needing to do damage if the DPS theoretically never had to slow down. If your DPS can open up earlier and longer, wouldn't that be a moot point? You really hate the idea of Paladin tanking that much, that even if it ended up being the best thing, you'd never accept it?

Again, this taunt argument. It is completely irrelevant on fights that cannot be taunted or don't require a taunt. If your Paladin tank has threat on Nef and can hold threat simply spamming 1 button as opposed to a Warrior gets put into Berserker Stance and the raid has to slow their DPS down, isn't the Warrior now the worse tank? You can't taunt Nef so if someone pulls threat they are probably dead, now you're down a whole person, and probably one of your highest DPS.



See Nef example.

it doesnt matter. paladin tanks are good for 5 mans and thats it. they werent designed to be raid tanks.

[Mukind]

it doesnt matter. paladin tanks are good for 5 mans and thats it. they werent designed to be raid tanks.

with the way kings works they can get exponentially more threat than anyone else int eh game

If you had a 40 man of paladins, and pressed greater kings just once. It would take many many global for anyone to get agro off u lol

The main limiter is the class stacking. You could be clever with OT taunt and use it to devastating affect

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I love it when someone comes to this forum asking people's opinion, and then literally says everyone is wrong. Every. Single. Person.

for the record 99% of u have no idea waht you're talking about so that's a fair thing to do here lul

I would bet teh vast majority of this thread is responses from poeople who have no idea how blessing/threat works and OP just didn't explain context to them.

[Mukind]

In my opinion, Arcanist is okay, lol. All the pieces have +spelldmg on them at least. And some pieces are even BiS. The head and wrist are BiS full-stop till phase 3 begins, and the leggings and boots are also BiS alternatives (not the best, but close enough). I mean, at least it is not as bad as Magisters in which no piece even has +spelldmg on it. I wouldn't feel as ripped off having full Arcanist than having full Magisters, lol.

The head is not bis lol

There is the AV head and just a simple frost green helm is better than t2 helm on single target fights.

It's only BiS for AOE

Pretty sure the engi lense might even be better than t2 i don't remember the value.....39/40 frost > t2 helm tho

[Coldfrostzero]

And you are ignoring that a warrior simply has more tools at his disposal for tanking, and can be utilized for EVERY FIGHT. It's simply inefficient to give loot to a class that will only be using it some of the time, compared to someone who will be utilizing it just as well, if not better... all the time.

I could give Thunderfury to a rogue, but it is better spent on a warrior.

If you read the thread, I've said many times that Paladins lack the big button survival things and a taunt. I am not ignoring anything, stop being dishonest here. The point is, that most important thing while tanking is maintaining threat, which is what the whole thing with GBoK is all about. In theory, it's unmatched threat with the caveat of class stacking. Which a lot of guilds already class stack. My first guild had like 14 Mages and my current guild I think has 11 warriors. Granted, I am playing Horde right now as I've stated.

If I were a Paladin, one GBoK on the Mages would be 1,596 threat a cast. By comparison, a Warrior Revenge causes 355 threat.

It's BiS for AOE tanking

Not for single target

Although if you stacked enough of one class it would become best single target by such a wide margin it would be crazy....But unless it's warriors or rogues not worth.

Not to mention GL to your off tanks lul

The risk here is the OTs losing threat to stuff they have to tank (if required). Good thing Warriors have taunt

it doesnt matter. paladin tanks are good for 5 mans and thats it. they werent designed to be raid tanks.

Based on the fact that they can't taunt alone or just because you think something without reviewing the evidence?

[Machismo]

In my opinion, Arcanist is okay, lol. All the pieces have +spelldmg on them at least. And some pieces are even BiS. The head and wrist are BiS full-stop till phase 3 begins, and the leggings and boots are also BiS alternatives (not the best, but close enough). I mean, at least it is not as bad as Magisters in which no piece even has +spelldmg on it. I wouldn't feel as ripped off having full Arcanist than having full Magisters, lol.

Some pieces are OK, but I was rocking greens and blues, and still had 100 spell damage more than almost every other mage.

I'll never forget seeing four mages with the staff of Hale magefire in the same raid.

[Mukind]

The issue is just class stacking, if everyone had 15 wars in raid paladin tanks would exist

Because just accidentally pressing kings on them at the start of the fight would teach u how OP it is lol

Nothing is ever gonna come close to pala tank if you stack enough of one class.....

[arkanon]

with the way kings works they can get exponentially more threat than anyone else int eh game

If you had a 40 man of paladins, and pressed greater kings just once. It would take many many global for anyone to get agro off u lol

The main limiter is the class stacking. You could be clever with OT taunt and use it to devastating affect

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for the record 99% of u have no idea waht you're talking about so that's a fair thing to do here lul

I would bet teh vast majority of this thread is responses from poeople who have no idea how blessing/threat works and OP just didn't explain context to them.

Dunning Kruger at it's absolute finest. "99% of ppl don't know what they are talking about, but luckily I am totally in the 1%".

[Machismo]

If you read the thread, I've said many times that Paladins lack the big button survival things and a taunt. I am not ignoring anything, stop being dishonest here. The point is, that most important thing while tanking is maintaining threat, which is what the whole thing with GBoK is all about. In theory, it's unmatched threat with the caveat of class stacking. Which a lot of guilds already class stack. My first guild had like 14 Mages and my current guild I think has 11 warriors. Granted, I am playing Horde right now as I've stated.

If I were a Paladin, one GBoK on the Mages would be 1,596 threat a cast. By comparison, a Warrior Revenge causes 355 threat.



The risk here is the OTs losing threat to stuff they have to tank (if required). Good thing Warriors have taunt



Based on the fact that they can't taunt alone or just because you think something without reviewing the evidence?

No, the most important thing as a tank, is to hold aggro, and not fucking die. a warrior can do that in every single fight. any gear that goes to a warrior can be used in more fights, and will simply be more beneficial to a raid and guild, overall.

A warlock can spam searing pain all damn day, that doesn't make them better than a warrior. They can also spam hellfire, but that doesn't make them a better aoe tank.

[Mukind]

AV even gives a head gear piece as a reward? But don't the rep rewards become available till phase 3? I was talking about pre-phase 3 BiS, not after that.

It's a unique thing from the ice lord. Most guilds woudln't consider it pre bis because it's very difficult to get

Game has to go on for like 40 minutes then u have to win the roll lol

It's a very good helm tho

No rep required

edit - or maybe it's not the ice lord I don't remember. One of the late game NPCs drops it tho

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Dunning Kruger at it's absolute finest. "99% of ppl don't know what they are talking about, but luckily I am totally in the 1%".

Yea it's almost like i play the game and know where i stand

kek

I'm better than <apes> healers. Who are worried about bronze and not invis potting trash packs.

THat's not dunning krueger thats just facts jejeje, small community pleb.

I'm juicin/bigwillie. Who are you? lol

Very confident in my ability to back up my claim

[Multitorix Davlen]

I posted the tanking guide from WoWhead. They have videos and theorycrafting breaking down what I've said. If you're refusing to look at the evidence prented I can't help you.

Looking at it, it proves my point of it being costly and not optimal. The onyxia kill video posted the dude casted kings 69 times. That's 3 and a half stacks of resources dumped down the drain a fight. Gold that a warrior wouldn't have to spend. You still have to prove that it is more optimal to bring a paladin over a warrior, cause even with the wowhead article I'm not seeing it.

Edited because I failed to remember you buy stacks of 20 at a time, but the argument hasn't changed.

[Mukind]

Looking at it, it proves my point of it being costly and not optimal. The onyxia kill video posted the dude casted kings 69 times. That's almost 20 gold dumped down the drain a fight. 20 gold that a warrior wouldn't have to spend.

....? Thats like 1.5g worth of kings* brah lol

I just logged in i go check price...stack can't be much more than 2g tho

Relative to a tank buffing himself to do dmg it gonna be cheap.

edit a stack is 1.12g....SO it was ~75 silver....And he needed 0 damage buffs if he didn't want them...I highly doubt the warrior tank comes away as cheaper in the context of Onixia. Not enough global to make up for the cost of buffing the war with things like mongoose.

[ovine]

Only reason to have a pally on your tank team is to keep him sweet for MH and SH attunement runs for when TBC is released.

[Mukind]

Dunning Kruger at it's absolute finest. "99% of ppl don't know what they are talking about, but luckily I am totally in the 1%".

HELLO/ WHO ARE YOU SIR

lul

The irony is palpable

[munkeyinorbit]

with the way kings works they can get exponentially more threat than anyone else int eh game

If you had a 40 man of paladins, and pressed greater kings just once. It would take many many global for anyone to get agro off u lol

The main limiter is the class stacking. You could be clever with OT taunt and use it to devastating affect

- - - Updated - - -



for the record 99% of u have no idea waht you're talking about so that's a fair thing to do here lul

I would bet teh vast majority of this thread is responses from poeople who have no idea how blessing/threat works and OP just didn't explain context to them.

Unlike 99% of the posts here you are not getting the point. This is about main tanking. You cannot be the main tank if you can't tank all of the fights. You would be infact an offtank. Plenty of guilds have paladin offtanks but almost no guilds have a paladin main tank. If you sit there and actually think about it like everyone else then you would come to the same conclusion.

[arkanon]

HELLO/ WHO ARE YOU SIR

lul

The irony is palpable

When you are so triggered you reply to the same post twice without even noticing. Just relax, it will be ok, your ego will recover.