Is there any chance we could do away with the timer in M+? Alot of us don't like it.

[Penegal]

On that matter though I can imagine a mode where you can opt-in to remove timer, but your reward will be same as failing key and your key will stay at the same level and maybe the dungeon will change. Ultimately, you and your group will start to clear this level faster and faster because it's more fun and thrilling to push your limits and you will eventually opt-in to timed M+ and up your key to increase your challenge.

This would cause so much shit. It's incredibly easy to abuse for competent players. Get a key to 14 and start doing it by opting out of the timer. So. Much. Free. Gear. Simply because competent players can spam the living shit out of it and offset the fact that you get the rewards of a failed key. If you can complete a +14 twice in about the same time as you complete a 15-16 or higher as a failed key, for example you would get all the gear you need. Not to mention that people will perfect it to the point where it'll be so easy some weeks people will be pulling half the dungeons.

[Soikona]

I would love it if the dungeons were more like raids and required a week or two to progress them. I love hard content, not rushed content.

[conceptKitty]

well if you dislike it you should want to do it asap, so you would probably go for timer anyhow... or you want something you dont enjoy doing to take as much time as possible?
your problem is not M+ system, but rather lack of pvp vendors...

I dislike it, so I'd like to do it faster? I mean I get what you're trying to say but it's not that simple.
I still have to complete my key weekly so I'll actually have a key the next week.
Then I have to find a group within the suitable range I want to do or make my own and neither of those parts are exactly fun, especially when you already don't want to do that type of content.
I know this will be different in Shadowlands but that's still miles away.

And yes, I don't see why they have to be so obstinate when it comes to vendors for PvP.

[Donald Hellscream]

What is your definition of a rush rush rush mentality? In most mythic+ dungeons that I've done, can count on one hand how many times people have sperged out and demanded I pull faster and I don't really rush it, unless you count not waiting several seconds (as in 10+ seconds) between each pull as rushing.

[Penegal]

I don't care for the challenge, I just want my loot so I can do content I like, which is Arena.
The sole reason why I do M+ is so I can get the loot as it's more rewarding than the loot Arena gives.

It's such a chore having to keep it up or you'll lose your key, fail and have your key go lower. If you find it fun, awesome. I don't, but if I want a better chance at RNG, this is the way.

I also do PvP only because I want higher Azerite from my weekly chest and a better corruption item but you don't see me going around threads that I shouldn't have to get rating to get that. If you want the reward, you need to do the content properly.

[Smallfruitbat]

The current system works fine if you are running with friends.

The addition of the mighty buff fish (yes, I'm a scrub and we fail the timer) gives a reward at the end that used to be out of reach. The problem comes when you rely on the PUG world. If you are limited to that, then it probably is a stressful run -although I pugged a lot of keys in Legion and generally had a decent time of it.

[Exeris]

I might actually do them if they were like this. I hated challenge modes from the moment they introduced them because I do not enjoy playing against the timer.

Same for me, timers are stressing and frustrating and I mostly avoid anything involving a timer.

I don't mind if people are falling behind on dps or we whipe, I'm usually one of the last to leave LFR for example after many whipes like there was on G'huun, but if there is a timer I need to go to my happy place.

[klaps_05]

It can work as long as you dont get a key upgrade from it. Heroing every single boss and trash pack shouldnt be rewarded with a key upgrade because you didnt accomplish anything. You can play the dungeon a single mob at a time with 90 heros in total and do it, but then you shouldnt get a key upgrade.

[conceptKitty]

I also do PvP only because I want higher Azerite from my weekly chest and a better corruption item but you don't see me going around threads that I shouldn't have to get rating to get that. If you want the reward, you need to do the content properly.

Of course, and to my knowledge nobody is asking for free loot here but rather the flaws in the system.

[Zantos]

There is no reason to remove the timer. The only reason you beat the timer is for a shot at more loot and to increase your key. The timer is the only difficult part about a mythic + aside from its level. At some point, your gear will ensure you simply cannot out last a boss. Up to that point though, its not hard one bit. Pull small, aoe or single target certain adds. Thats it.

If you're not trying to push the key to higher ranks, what would be the point in even rushing then? At that same point, how would they determine if your key should upgrade or not if there is no timer? Going even further, why should a group who takes 3hrs per dungeon to clear a mythic be allowed to keep moving up and keep getting progressively stronger gear if they are not actually trying anything challenging?

It just keeps snowballing from there. In short, there is nothing difficult about completing a mythic+ without worrying about the timer and at that point, why bother even locking gear behind the effort? If you can calmly stroll in there and take however long you want for gear that is a significant upgrade, it would be best just to hand it out then.

It may sound elitist, but that is really what it boils down to. The timer is the only meaning to the entire system.

[Trazerion]

TLDR: Im lazy/bad give me free loot

[Penegal]

Of course, and to my knowledge nobody is asking for free loot here but rather the flaws in the system.

Having a timer isn't a flaw. It forces people to go beyond the traditional way of playing. It promotes tactics and punishes mistakes.

[Dreen]

Idk i dont enjoy timers either, while i loved them for Challengemodes(It was always a certain time with no variance aka gear getting better throughout the season and affix depending difficulty) while in M+ the affixes vary the dungeon difficulty/length by so much that i wont even bother with certain dungeons in a certain week.
Id be a fan of bringing back challengemode in some sort and just keep timers out of M+ they dont really make sense anyway given the affix rotations

[Aphrel]

It just promotes rush rush rush gameplay, and sets up pugs for toxicity.

Maybe just add an option to run them with one chest at the end, without a timer? That keeps everyone happy.

You still get a chest at the end even if you miss the timer. So we already have this.

[zhorteye]

The timer isnt the scary thing. The real reason people blame the timer for their problems is because they are too ashamed to admit that they dont want to get good enough to clear keys.

How about the few of us Who then are good enough, but have been taking a break and has Therefor ended up on the bad side of the raider.io gods Unable to get into groups and keys that would lead to upgrades, simply because of the raider.io score bullshit that shouldnt exist or be endorsed by blizzard in the first place?

The games state right now is one with a community too focused on overgearing everything, People wanting to get Carried, and external scores mattering more than giving People the chance to prove themselves.

Things like raider.io only breeds elitism which has No place in world of warcraft.

[Nevcairiel]

Because you can never up a key without the timer.

The problem is of course that dungeons do not contain hard-blocker quite like raids do, especially in Fortified weeks. If you wait out every single cooldown, including Lust, on every single pull, you can eventually clear a dungeon much harder then your skill or gear should dictate - and higher then a group that doesn't employ such tactics would.

That is the prime reason for having a timer to advance your key and unlock access to a higher level. M+ dungeons are designed like one long encounter without any individual major blockers, with trash being a real challenge. If you take enough time to slowly kill the trash, with full CC and with all temporary buffs at your disposal, basically splitting this one long encounter into many small ones, you will take forever, but you will succeed (up to a point).

Personally, I understand the appeal of this. I would like a sort of "5man raid" concept which is challenging and requires actual strategy, but not timed. But I also fully understand why we can't just have an M+ without timers. It would need to be carefully designed from the ground up.

[Penegal]

How about the few of us Who then are good enough, but have been taking a break and has Therefor ended up on the bad side of the raider.io gods Unable to get into groups and keys that would lead to upgrades, simply because of the raider.io score bullshit that shouldnt exist or be endorsed by blizzard in the first place?

The games state right now is one with a community too focused on overgearing everything, People wanting to get Carried, and external scores mattering more than giving People the chance to prove themselves.

Things like raider.io only breeds elitism which has No place in world of warcraft.

If raider.io didn't exist you'd have people requesting achievements or other sorts of proof. Before iLvl was prominent in the game we had Gearscore. Before Achievements people wanted you to whisper tactics. Just because raider.io exists doesn't mean something else wouldn't exist if it hadn't come into existence. People want a way to sift through players in an efficient manner. That said, raider.io isn't indicative of the player's skill 100% of the time. Sometimes high scoring players are shit, other times low scoring players are good. Most times it's accurate though.

Edit: you can also push your own key.

[cuafpr]

I'd love to see the timer gone.... Make them harder or something but no timer and if a group wants to take several hours waiting for a full CD reset between each pull so be it, the reward for doing them fast should be more completed and thus more loot that way. I think the highest i've ever done is +5 cause i hate timed content.

[Clozer]

How about the few of us Who then are good enough, but have been taking a break and has Therefor ended up on the bad side of the raider.io gods Unable to get into groups and keys that would lead to upgrades, simply because of the raider.io score bullshit that shouldnt exist or be endorsed by blizzard in the first place?

The games state right now is one with a community too focused on overgearing everything, People wanting to get Carried, and external scores mattering more than giving People the chance to prove themselves.

Things like raider.io only breeds elitism which has No place in world of warcraft.

???

You know what has no place in WoW - people who took a break and wanna jump right back into the most difficult content the game has to offer, without any friends.

[Lolites]

How about the few of us Who then are good enough, but have been taking a break and has Therefor ended up on the bad side of the raider.io gods Unable to get into groups and keys that would lead to upgrades, simply because of the raider.io score bullshit that shouldnt exist or be endorsed by blizzard in the first place?

The games state right now is one with a community too focused on overgearing everything, People wanting to get Carried, and external scores mattering more than giving People the chance to prove themselves.

Things like raider.io only breeds elitism which has No place in world of warcraft.

well how about starting at low keys and build up your m+ score?
i mean sure, having to use raider io is stupid but its not some uncrossable obstacle...