US signs peace deal with the Taliban.

[Gaidax]

Should have been done a decade ago. Would be the same effect, but a whole lot money and blood wasted for nothing spared.

Afghanistan is yet another tribal ME shithole, they don't need your silly democracy. They want to stone their women and kill the infidels in the neighboring village all day long, so just let them, really.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Since I walk this planet the only positive thing that comes from the Middle East is oil.
The USA freed europe in 1945 and we embraced it and build up our countries.

When you give a country 19 years the time to build up something and embrace western values then at some point you need to see that they dont want to be like us. it is a sad fact because they apply violence toward freedom and free thinking but I guess war was not the way to wake them up that their lives would improve that way. Trump is making a smart move this is not the way but sadly we are also not closer toward making the Middle East a better place, and I guess it will never happen.

Afghanistan was already on the road to western values until groups backed by the us and others lead to the Taliban taking over.

[Unholyground]

Such a waste of money and lives, I mean was anyone dumb enough to think that we could win this?

It was never about ending it, war is to keep military spending up so that they can justify spending so much on the military budget every year to keep up with technology.

[sarahtasher]

When people casually say ''oh we won, but we got fooled by nation building''...you are missing the point. Like in Vietnam, those wars (until you were very naive) were all about nation building. If you go in a country, wreck it completely US style, what do you think will happen when you leave ? That the locals are going to like you and back your puppets ?

(For instance, I would daresay here than Western values are not going to be very popular in Afghanistan in 14 months, and that Taliban will be….rightly...credited as having drove off two superpowers

(That said, the average Taliban Patchun is probably mumbling beneath his beard about those arses from the Gulf who keep bringing trouble in their mountains)

[Edge-]

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...ce-deal-118660

So...apparently we learned little from Vietnam and negotiated with a hostile force without the inclusion of the host country. And Afghanistan, who got fucked on this deal (despite Trump being the DEALMAKER), doesn't seem to be happy about the terms.

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1234474988880777219?s=20

And the ceasefire lasted all of a few days, Taliban is going after Afghan forces (not international though) again.

GREAT VICTORY. BARELY 24 HOURS OF SUCCESS. NO SUPPORT FROM THE COUNTRY WE ARE THERE ALLEGEDLY ON BEHALF OF. 10/10, BRAG ABOUT AGAIN.

Glad they got an invitation to Camp David for this nonsense.

[Kathandira]

Whatever happened to the days of "We don't negotiate with Terrorists"?

[Teleros]

So...apparently we learned little from Vietnam and negotiated with a hostile force without the inclusion of the host country.

If it's not in the USA's interests to include the government in Kabul, why would they? Like I said, it's pretty obvious that the Taliban will be taking over sooner or later, so why ask the puppets what their opinion is? We know what it will be anyway, ie "stick around & spend all your blood & treasure keeping us alive & in power".

despite Trump being the DEALMAKER

Deal-maker for whom though ? The Afghan government doesn't get a vote in November, but all those military families he swore to serve?

And the ceasefire lasted all of a few days, Taliban is going after Afghan forces (not international though) again.

Entirely expected. Time to let the locals squabble whilst we bug out & stop wasting money & lives there.

As I understand it, the Kabul government is basically backed only by the old Northern Alliance, whereas the Taliban have always had the Pashtun tribes on their side. The Pashtun always end up ruling Afghanistan (being the biggest ethnic group helps), so I expect things will settle down to how they were pre-2001 in a few years. There might be some face-saving along the lines of shipping fancy armaments to the soon-to-be-ex puppets for a while, but that won't help them for long.

[Edge-]

If it's not in the USA's interests to include the government in Kabul, why would they?

Uh...because it's Afghanistan we're talking about? And the US was making promises on behalf of the government, apparently without consulting them?

I mean, what authority does the US have to promise the release of Taliban prisoners held in Afghan prisons?

Like I said, it's pretty obvious that the Taliban will be taking over sooner or later, so why ask the puppets what their opinion is?

Then that remains a domestic problem for the Afghan people to handle. What happens after we formalize an agreement with all parties and leave is no longer our problem.

We know what it will be anyway, ie "stick around & spend all your blood & treasure keeping us alive & in power".

I'll double check, but last I recall there isn't a ton of support for US troops in Afghanistan amongst locals.

Deal-maker for whom though ? The Afghan government doesn't get a vote in November, but all those military families he swore to serve?

For nobody, because he couldn't even get the ceasefire to stick and consequently, unless he's just going to allow the Taliban to violate his deal without consequence, it'll be voided.

If he wants to pull US troops out of the country and leave it in shambles to win an election he can do that without a bullshit deal. But the fact remains, this is a terrible deal for anyone but the Taliban, including the US.

Entirely expected. Time to let the locals squabble whilst we bug out & stop wasting money & lives there.

Then why waste time with the deal in the first place? Why almost invite the Taliban to Camp David on 9/11 for a negotiation?

Do you not see that all of your attempts to diminish the consequences of the violations of the deal also diminish the deal itself?

As I understand it, the Kabul government is basically backed only by the old Northern Alliance, whereas the Taliban have always had the Pashtun tribes on their side. The Pashtun always end up ruling Afghanistan (being the biggest ethnic group helps), so I expect things will settle down to how they were pre-2001 in a few years. There might be some face-saving along the lines of shipping fancy armaments to the soon-to-be-ex puppets for a while, but that won't help them for long.

That's all fine and has nothing to do with this deal. Again, what happens after US troops withdraw is no longer our problem.

[Teleros]

Uh...because it's Afghanistan we're talking about? And the US was making promises on behalf of the government, apparently without consulting them?

I mean, what authority does the US have to promise the release of Taliban prisoners held in Afghan prisons?

The authority of being the Afghan government's puppet-master.

I'll double check, but last I recall there isn't a ton of support for US troops in Afghanistan amongst locals.

You're probably right, but the locals =/= the Afghan government, who I suspect have some rather unpleasant ideas about what would happen if they're in Kabul when the Taliban take over again.

If he wants to pull US troops out of the country and leave it in shambles to win an election he can do that without a bullshit deal. But the fact remains, this is a terrible deal for anyone but the Taliban, including the US.

It looks nicer & more orderly etc if there's a deal made though. Optics, low information voters, all that stuff.

Then why waste time with the deal in the first place? Why almost invite the Taliban to Camp David on 9/11 for a negotiation?

Do you not see that all of your attempts to diminish the consequences of the violations of the deal also diminish the deal itself?

Oh I see it, but it's just the usual face-saving stuff that seems to be expected in these circumstances. Yeah, it's usually pretty silly, but... that's just how the world seems to work.

[Easo]

Well, that did not last long, as totally predicted by... many. Trump got his political cookie points, but thats all he probably cared about.

[Beefhammer]

Congratulations to all American vets coming back home, thanks for your service. It ultimately turned out being useless, but thanks anyway

Ha! You think they are coming home. They will be redeployed elsewhere.

[Breccia]

Well, that did not last long, as totally predicted by... many.

For those of you just now joining us:

Taliban announces end of partial truce days after signing deal with US

A motorcycle bomb attack in eastern Afghanistan killed three and injured 11 as the Taliban announced an end to a partial truce Monday after earlier agreeing to a week-long “reduction of violence” before signing a peace agreement with the U.S., although U.S. officials said they had not yet determined who was responsible for the attack.

The truce expired on Saturday, but U.S. officials had hoped for an agreement to prolong it, with Afghan President Ashraf Ghani committing to extend the agreement until at least March 10, the day talks between the militant group and the Afghan government are set to begin

“The reduction in violence ... has ended now and our operations will continue as normal,” Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid told the Agence France Press. “As per the [US-Taliban] agreement, our mujahideen will not attack foreign forces but our operations will continue against the Kabul administration forces.”

Quick break here: there's a name for people who use violence and threats, especially against noncombatants, to achieve political goals. It's a very important name, we should all be familiar with it.

The end of the truce follows Ghani publicly contradicting the U.S. on the release of 5,000 prisoners included in the deal, with a spokesman for Ghani saying the Afghan government “has not made any commitment to release 5,000 Taliban prisoners before the start of any potential negotiations.”

So I admit I may have missed a few details, so please correct me with citations when I am wrong:
1) Trump signed a deal with the Taliban, the prizes for which included the release of prisoners.
2) The Afghani government was not present and did not agree.

If the above is correct, now what? Will Trump cause the release of the prisoners by force? If not, what happens to the deal he just signed?

I suppose the Taliban, regardless of what else you can say about them, at least know that a contract signed with Trump is worth nothing. I mean, let's say these bombings and murders continue. Will Trump admit he was wrong, either directly or by returning troops and sanctions? Or will he just continue giving the Taliban everything they want, in exchange for more violence and death that's a direct result of his words and actions?

The only way we know is by watching the violence escalate.

[draynay]

I suppose the Taliban, regardless of what else you can say about them, at least know that a contract signed with Trump is worth nothing.

Not to split hairs, but the existence and creation of said contract means a great deal, its just the words on it that are worthless.

[Breccia]

Not to split hairs, but the existence and creation of said contract means a great deal, its just the words on it that are worthless.

You're talking about Trump legitimizing the Taliban as rulers of the country. Yeah, we covered that, still true, still horrifying.

[tromage2]

You're talking about Trump legitimizing the Taliban as rulers of the country. Yeah, we covered that, still true, still horrifying.

Its up to the population of that country dude not Trump.
Whats wrong with you… If the ppl dont want the Taliban then they will not be in charge end of story.

[Easo]

Yes, I also would like to know how USA planned to release those 5k talibs, if the Afghanistan goverment was not involved and is against it?

[draynay]

Yes, I also would like to know how USA planned to release those 5k talibs, if the Afghanistan goverment was not involved and is against it?

Planned? Trump doesn't make plans he makes deals.

[Easo]

Planned? Trump doesn't make plans he makes deals.

That explains why his businesses bankrupted.
Oh, this is turning into another Trump shitshow thread, isn't it? In my defense - it is quite clear that the whole plan and it's already quite obvious failure is his doing.

[draynay]

That explains why his businesses bankrupted.
Oh, this is turning into another Trump shitshow thread, isn't it? In my defense - it is quite clear that the whole plan and it's already quite obvious failure is his doing.

No one thread could contain all the shit, but it does a good job with most of it.

[GreenJesus]

Planned? Trump doesn't make plans he makes deals.

lol Trump doesn't make deals. He demands what he wants and then kicks and screams on the floor when it doesn't go the way he wants and blow the whole thing up. Deals usually have some mutual agreement that benefits both parties.