Complete Class Rework

[Kralljin]

So you want to bring back class fantasy by making them generally the same few groups? Your response sounds more like homogenization than unique class identity.

Elaborate how classes having different healthpools as opposed to the same healthpool and armor as a stat being more relevant (since different classes wear different armor) leads to more homogenization.

Like, Armor is right now basically a cosmetic restriction, in PvP it is barely relevant because most Melee specs do a ton of magical damage, in dungeons and raids basically any damage is magical (even rocks dropping onto your heads) or ignores armor.

[Marxman]

Don't fix what isn't broken. There have been plenty of times Blizzard has overhauled a spec that didn't need it, and ruined a lot of people's experiences by doing so. See WoD -> Legion Survival, WotLK -> Cata Paladin.

Unfortunately a lot of specs need an overhaul right now because of how much Legion screwed up. Without multiple layers of rental gear and effects, classes are very barebones.

[Rilas13]

They tend to avoid the massive reworks every xpac because of how many people either like the class/spec as is, and to not scare off returning players.

Major class overhaul to me reads the Shadow Priest changes in Legion. Most classes don't need that very often. However I do like a little housekeeping every xpac, refine talent trees, fix spec hiccups based on the past few years of performance, ect.

If the only motivation to spend months of development time is to make it feel like you're playing a new game every other year then I don't think it's a great idea. In general, I want my shaman casting Lightning Bolt. Big reworks often would just feel weird from a continuity standpoint. "Oh lets see what stuff my guy learned & forgot over the weekend."

[SNES-1990]

Most of the specs don't need more than some cleaning up.

But dammit, give me back ranged survival in some way.

Ranged survival was just a couple DoTs and explosive shot procs basically.

[Onikaroshi]

Ranged survival was just a couple DoTs and explosive shot procs basically.

You can boil down any class to "it's just a couple of this and this" if you really want to, Ranged survival was my favorite spec. I still play it on "illegal" servers.

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

I just want one more rework to fix the classes. Ideally, back to MoP classes, but that'll never happen. After that, leave it.

My warlock cries from what has happened to him

[Niwes]

In my opinion, one of the biggest reasons why older xpacs were loved, is class overhauls. most ppl i know from the good ol times in TBC or WotLK had heavy fun with looking at new talents and spells of their class. Testing, discussing, philosophies, internet searches and theorycrafting, all that was big part of the fun, when the class changes were released and the cant-await-to-play-feeling for the xpac started to grow.

i hear some ppl saying things in the last few years like „ok, next xpac. yeah. its like the next big patch.“ or „no new class. yeah.“ imo the reason why many ppl are bored or pissed about that stuff, is simply the absence of that „adventure-like feeling“, the „feeling of something new“. and especially class changes transported that feeling well, because the class is the players window to wow.

ofc, for a lot of ppl that are just fixed to a single main/class such changes sucks, when they do not like it. i understand, that committing on something and then changing that things, sucks. but overall, including even this ppl, the something-new-feeling was an incredible important part of the feeling of „a new xpac“. imo this is heavily underrated.

but, as i said, thats just my oppinion. even with 15 years of uninterupted play time i can just speak for the small world around myself and what my experience say and how i „feel“ the game and the community.

so, i for myself, voted for class reworks every xpac, because i am convinced that a lot of the „new xpac“ fun, feeling and hype is based on the „feeling of something new“. and imo nothing transports this as good as classes do.

[threads]

Ranged survival was just a couple DoTs and explosive shot procs basically.

here's an idea, you can revamp a spec without changing it's role after 12 years. making it melee was a dumbass move that killed the spec.

[Alkizon]

What does that actually MEAN though? It's such a vague statement, and so easy to make, but essentially unquantifiable. It's not a SMART goal, that's bloody sure. I think Class Order Halls did more for "class fantasy" than any abilities ever have. If anything I'd want to see them taken to the next level, rather than just fiddling with abilities.

Actually no, they only added content “story”, but for the part of class fantasy, they only ruined everything. This is Legion part, it's all about "How to finally kill class fantasy (for dummies)"

As for specifically discussed issue, nothing has changed since this, basics are still the same. Therefore, answer doesn't fit into any of proposed categories and sounds like this: we(hypothetical) need one-time correct changes, and then just need to "vibrate" (if necessary) within existing design.

ps. By the way, here some stuff touching survival part too
<1> <2> <3>
(for more - look for "not bold" links from these)

[dreamdaddy]

Some specs feel great to play, while others feel either clunky or like they're missing something (Guardian druid). Just fix the specs that need it.

[Syegfryed]

im against a complete class rework every patch, but after bfa we definitely need one.

[VinceVega]

I don't think it is needed and takes away to much ressources from other stuff. Most classes play fine and the GCD thing is completly overblown.

That being said: I really like exploring the new classes after a big change. It is just fun^^

[Nyel]

MoP and WoD classes were excellent. After that there was no need to rework them but Blizzard chose to to fit artifacts into the game. It was okay, classes were good during Legion because of three factors: general class design + artifacts + legendaries.

All of that went downhill after they removed all of that and we were stuck with bare bones class design and horrible Azerite gear. We needed a major class overhaul for BfA and didn't got one. That means we still need one for Shadowlands because classes have never been so bland and utterly boring in the last decade.

Yes, Classic, TBC and WotLK were worse but in MoP and WoD we had top-notch class design for most specs. We need to go back to that. After they achieved this status again I am fine with them to only slightly adjust classes between expansions.

[Eurhetemec]

Some specs feel great to play, while others feel either clunky or like they're missing something (Guardian druid). Just fix the specs that need it.

I really like Guardian Druid, what do you feel it's missing, specifically?

Yes, Classic, TBC and WotLK were worse but in MoP and WoD we had top-notch class design for most specs. We need to go back to that. After they achieved this status again I am fine with them to only slightly adjust classes between expansions.

What specifically do you "need to go back to", though? And you say most specs, and maybe the majority of specs were decent (I would question "top notch"), but there were spectacularly unplayable or painful or stupidly designed specs in those expansions (Feral comes to mind). And people say some BfA specs feel clunky? Well I wish there was a MoP Classic server, because fuck me, there was some clunky AF specs in that.

I somewhat agree re: stripping classes too hard in Legion, but BfA has improved things a lot, and I think staying on track and improving from BfA would be better at this point than attempting a massive reversion to WoD or whatever.

[Sencha]

Some specs are too similar and some are clunky, so an overhaul is necessary. But when it's correctly done, an overhaul is not required every expansion.

[Orwell7]

In my opinion, one of the biggest reasons why older xpacs were loved, is class overhauls. most ppl i know from the good ol times in TBC or WotLK had heavy fun with looking at new talents and spells of their class. Testing, discussing, philosophies, internet searches and theorycrafting, all that was big part of the fun, when the class changes were released and the cant-await-to-play-feeling for the xpac started to grow.

i hear some ppl saying things in the last few years like „ok, next xpac. yeah. its like the next big patch.“ or „no new class. yeah.“ imo the reason why many ppl are bored or pissed about that stuff, is simply the absence of that „adventure-like feeling“, the „feeling of something new“. and especially class changes transported that feeling well, because the class is the players window to wow.

ofc, for a lot of ppl that are just fixed to a single main/class such changes sucks, when they do not like it. i understand, that committing on something and then changing that things, sucks. but overall, including even this ppl, the something-new-feeling was an incredible important part of the feeling of „a new xpac“. imo this is heavily underrated.

but, as i said, thats just my oppinion. even with 15 years of uninterupted play time i can just speak for the small world around myself and what my experience say and how i „feel“ the game and the community.

so, i for myself, voted for class reworks every xpac, because i am convinced that a lot of the „new xpac“ fun, feeling and hype is based on the „feeling of something new“. and imo nothing transports this as good as classes do.

Well said well said!
I'd like to add that playing alts that are "within reach" is part of this, too. People love to try the fotm - or try to beat the fotm with unusual strategies. It's the part of the game's evolution. BfA and to some extent, even legion skipped on this.

Blizz maybe tried to capture this fantasy with new azerite traits, but failed (+secondary stats while you have 20+ corruption.. yeah, interesting...), maybe essences were part of this, but people don't like to try the same shit again and again.
People who play MMOs want some spiciness, bc we don't just play the story with "whatever", we are playing WITH our characters.
And if playing our chars suck, well... this happens. Some like it I'm sure, but most find it boring. I find it boring, too.

[Nyel]

I somewhat agree re: stripping classes too hard in Legion, but BfA has improved things a lot, and I think staying on track and improving from BfA would be better at this point than attempting a massive reversion to WoD or whatever.

BfA has improved absolutely nothing when it comes to class design (over Legion). It's abysmal. The problem is the gameplay, it's too repetitive and too similar and too unfun - at least for me. In Legion I had 11 max level classes because I really enjoyed playing them. In BfA I have 5 and gameplay-wise I hate 3 of them. BfA for me is the absolute low of class design and class fun since end of WotLK. I think I even enjoyed Cataclysm classes more (at least my Paladin and Priest).

[FuxieDK]

How do you guys feel about the constant revamp of classes every expansions. How that has stopped in the last 2 expansions and going into the same stale rotations into another expansion?

Class revamp is probably the worst thing Blizzard have ever done to the game.......and they have done it several times.

Each time they change how a class/spec is played, they piss on the players who love that class/spec, in a way, making them "homeless" when they fall out of love in their favorite class/spec.

[shade3891]

Nothing is perfect but if you have a good thing going on... please leave it alone.
At that point you should only add rotation/alternative gameplay choices but always the option to keep the core rotation viable.
And after an expansion, the good/balanced options stay in game, and bad/less picked ones should be replaced.
And talents that feel mandatory should be either removed or absorbed in the base kit.

--

The class fantasy thing could be cool. I hope they all gives us a talent tier to support another PvE roles.

Examples:

Rogues:
[Duelist][Tank] You gain 100% dodge and taunt all targets in melee range for 10 seconds, everytime you dodge you strike that target for 35K. [ 6min CD]
[Alchemist][Healer] You throw and Crimson Vial to all partymembers in 30 yards range and heal them for 500K over 4 seconds. [ 6min CD]
[Shadow Dash][Utility] You dash forward leaving a shadow clone behind if any enemy comes in contact with a clone it explodes and close enemies are stunned for 0.5 sec [ 10 sec CD]

Warlock:
[Greater Voidwalker][Tank] You summon a Greater Voidwalker that taunts all targets in 20y range every 2 seconds for 30 seconds .
The Voidwalker can't die while in combat with more than 2 targets. [ 6min CD]
[Empowered Healthstones][Healer] For the next 35 seconds, if a partymember uses a healthstone they gain full health. [ 10min CD]
[Dark Bargain][Utility] You and target partymember enter into a dark bargain, sharing all health and healing. But your total health is reduced by 10%. [Last until canceled.]

Priest:
[Eternal Aegis][Tank] You gain Eternal Aegis for 8 seconds while it lasts you are immune to all damage and every target you Smite is forced to attack you, this extends the duration by 1 second. When this effects ends your threat resets. [ 4min CD]
[Void Shroud][Heal] You shroud all partymembers in 30 yards range in void, absorbing 325K damage for 10 sec. While the shroud persists on your target Shadow Mend costs no mana and always a critical strike [ 6min CD]
[Blinding Radiance][Utility] All enemies looking at the priest that are within 40 yards are stunned for 4 sec.
Passive effect: For 8 seconds your critical strike chance is increased by 25% for every target stunned by Blinding Radiance. [ 2min CD]

[crakerjack]

We literally just got class reworks heading into BFA. Every spec other than enhancement and shadow got their reworks. Were they complete reworks? No, but they were reworks none the less. Eventually Shadow got their rework in 8.1.5, but unfortunately the floor gave way under enhance and they didn't get jack shit this entire expansion. Sucks because I decided to main a shaman in BFA and my main focus was Enhancement. While I don't mind the rotation, my main became stale because I was doing the same rotation since Legion.