Flying Update in Shadowlands

[RoKPaNda]

The only issue I have with pathfinder is the rep grinding part of it. Sure, make us see the story in every zone before we unlock flying. I mean we don't read the quests and we don't give a shit, but it makes them feel like their content is important for longer so sure. The rep grind part of it though? That's just some petulant child shit that Blizzard pulled because we overwhelmingly told them back in WoD that we wanted flying. That's beyond doing the content in a lot cases, that's doing content that doesn't have any usefulness to the point that it makes our eyes bleed.

[CaptainV]

Honestly they should just remove pathfinder entirley and make it possible to fly at the launch of an expansion even if some angsty haters will complain bout "Muh immersion/pvp" because honestly world pvp didnt get remotley improoved by the warmode change so flying wont matter for hell.

If I was to make a compramise that I think would work for the fly haters vs flyers it would go like this:

In warmode, you disable all flying on the map period so that you cant fly, this means you can only go via anywhere on the ground, and makes it impossible to fly away from a fight.

In non Warmode, the flying is enabled for ease of access even if maybe there are specific incentives to do warmode, e.g. 30% more XP for both factions (none of this balance specific bullshit) and possibly unique pvp world map objectives that give your faction specific bonuses for doing content there.

E.g., go back to that TBC or WOTLK era, add a wintergrasp style zone, or add mini objectives in the 4 main leveling zones, so you can potentially get more XP by winning for your team, or gain a world pvp specific currency such as Faction Anima that can be spent on world pvp rewards like a faction anima specific mog/weapons and gear.

E.g.

In Bastion it could be that theres 3 areas in the entire world map, that require territorial control every hour, the first time to win them locks the area for an hour under their control, these 3 areas are KoTH style points scattered on the map 3 ways to force pvp to spread out. As an incentive to do them, you get a "world pvp" weekly that is assosiated with the weekly rotation quests replacing timewalker (since lets be honest, timewalker will be irrelevent come 8.0 anyway).

So to conclude:

- Pathfinder gets removed, warmode enables/disables flying for pvpers.
- For those that hate pathfinder that just wanna pve, well, tough luck, you can choose not to buy flying in the area?
- World pvp gets incentives via 30% more xp while leveling, a pvp specific currency for winning world pvp objectives in each map, and a specific week on the weekly rotation replacing time walker that serves to incentivise pvp in the world scene, possibly including old areas too: e.g. World PvP Week: Wintergrasp (Wintergrasp returns during this week, complete world pvp there to earn faction anima!) or World PvP Week: Burning Crusade (Areas throughout Outland have been reporting Anima yielding to the faction strongest to claim them, complete objectives across outland this week!)
- Reward for all this is a few faction specific gimmicks, an anima set and elite version for long term farmers, with weapons and elite weapons and other things like mounts/weapon enchant mogs and titles.

[sheppo]

It does matter. It is beyond ridicuolous that you think players should be rewarded for refusing to do the content. By your dumb logic, we should be handed every single mount in old raids. After all it is irrelevant content.

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But you did waste time. Why do the content if they are just going to hand it to you for free. Players should never be rewarded for refusing to do the required content. Lower the requirements speed up the xp gains, but don't outright remove.

They have lowered the requirements. It now requires an unlockable riding level.

You're arguing about changes like the level availability and cost of riding in vanilla compared to now. It's a change you absolutely wont care about when shadowlands and future expansions go live, because when they're there and you're able to level with friends that wouldn't otherwise being able to fly with you in those expansions it will make sense. And that's what and who this change is for.

> It is beyond ridicuolous that you think players should be rewarded for refusing to do the content

It is not a punishment for those who did or didn't choose to do the content when it was relevant. Rather to make a consistent leveling experience for those that weren't even playing the game. If some that chose not to do it benefit it's a small price to pay for having a better leveling experience for everyone. Besides, we've had 5-6 years of reward from those achievements, it's really time to move on and make the game not have needless hoops for old content.

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The only issue I have with pathfinder is the rep grinding part of it. Sure, make us see the story in every zone before we unlock flying. I mean we don't read the quests and we don't give a shit, but it makes them feel like their content is important for longer so sure. The rep grind part of it though? That's just some petulant child shit that Blizzard pulled because we overwhelmingly told them back in WoD that we wanted flying. That's beyond doing the content in a lot cases, that's doing content that doesn't have any usefulness to the point that it makes our eyes bleed.

you are massively over-stating the amount of effort required to get the rep requirements on a main character. I'm an all-but social player these days, but even for me getting the rep ahead of the achievements in the last few expansions has not been an issue, especially consider the other unlocks that the reputations had, e.g. the essences and mounts for BFA which have made the reputations a whole lot relevant and literally rewarding.

[pinkz]

BFA will be a 10-50 leveling zone also in Shadowlands, of course blizzard is saving the announcement that BFA pathfinder will receive the same change as WOD and Legion

[chorx]

They should turn flying off for WM, turn up some of the rewards — maybe give pvp currency/gear and let the non wm players fly.

[rrayy]

They have lowered the requirements. It now requires an unlockable riding level.

Wrong that is outright removal.

You're arguing about changes like the level availability and cost of riding in vanilla compared to now. It's a change you absolutely wont care about when shadowlands and future expansions go live, because when they're there and you're able to level with friends that wouldn't otherwise being able to fly with you in those expansions it will make sense. And that's what and who this change is for.

You do not need flying to play with friends. That is a completely ridiculous argument.

> It is beyond ridicuolous that you think players should be rewarded for refusing to do the content

It is not a punishment for those who did or didn't choose to do the content when it was relevant. Rather to make a consistent leveling experience for those that weren't even playing the game. If some that chose not to do it benefit it's a small price to pay for having a better leveling experience for everyone. Besides, we've had 5-6 years of reward from those achievements, it's really time to move on and make the game not have needless hoops for old content.

There is a far better way to do things than removal of pathfinder. I would remove the ability to purchase flying for gold, but allow those who already did before the Pre-patch hits to keep the flying they purchased unlocked. After Pre-Patch, all toons and new players will unlock flying at level 50 after completing a Combined Pathfinder achievement. That Combined Pathfinder achievement would be

Level 50,
6 zones explored,
6 reps to Honored(reps gains buffed 50%)
6 zone storylines completed.

310% flying will be purchasable after Pre-patch for 5K gold at level 50 afer said achievement is completed. You can pick any zone or rep from any expansion or faction reps from classic. That way when a new player hits 50, you should already have Pathfinder completed while all those that have don't have pathfinder now should receive it for time already served while also not having what they already paid for taken away. There is no needless hoops. You keep the intent of Pathfinder and you aren't rewarding laziness. The irony is that this shows Blizzard's own laziness that they can't even be assed to take the time to come up with something so simple to maintain the Pathfinder they hold so dear.

[pinkz]

Not removing BfA makes sense.

New players are forced to level through BfA, so they want them to experience the game properly, at the right speed and flow it was designed around, which it was not done with flying. We've all just done it and personally, while I love having flying, I didn't really miss it that much while levelling through BfA. Not to mention a new player can't miss something they never had.

As for other expansions, new players can only access that once they've maxed level and go back or level an alt. By which time they will presumably have flying anyway on their main. So giving them flying for the other expansions they're now going back to makes sense.

From a new players perspective, this is how it'll go:

Level BfA > Go to SL

Get max level > Fly in SL

Create alt > Go to another expansion

level to 30 > Get flying

That's the only order they can do in, so at no point would they gain flying and then lose it again, outside of maybe getting BfA pathfinder before going to SL. So honestly, this is a change that makes sense. Old expansions are exactly that, old content. Players skipping the world and just flying from point to point isn't that big a deal, BfA though will still be relevant as the lead up to SL so they likely want players to experience it properly.

BFA pathfinder will be changed on SL prepatch or start, BFA still is current content. SL shows a release as on or before the end of Dec 2020 barring no delay.

could you imagine the uproar if blizzard added BFA in the blue post now

[Witchblade77]

its funny. main reason I bothered with pathfinder achievements was so that any of my alts didn't even have to deal with idiocy of the terrain design that they have been making progressively worse starting with cata. I was looking forward to having flight available for whatever new alts I may create, right from the start, since achievement is done. but... since its level based now, in EVERY zone... I guess I'm back to square one. on a plus side, I can skip redesigned original zones and just head into BC (minus blade edge mountains) or Wrath. the only 2 expansions that do not make me want tear my hair out in frustration over terrain being made as annoying on foot as possible.

[kamuimac]

It is astounding to me that people complain about this.

I never got WoD Pathfinder because I barely played that pathetic excuse for an expansion (which was undoubtedly worse than BFA for those arguing about it, even though BFA still sucks in it's own ways) I did get Legion pathfinder though, and I couldn't careless that someone like my brother who didn't bother with it can now fly around legion zones.

This is old legacy content that people do to farm mounts, pets, and transmog, letting people get around more easily makes sense.

Shadowlands is doing so much stuff for Wow that screams the devs are listening and I am very very happy about it.

and it was a good thing

lazy people shouldnt get rewards like people who worked for it

sadly nowadays everyone is special - which means nobody is

blizzard should jsut turn wow into moba instance symulator because thats their endgoal .

[Boddhi]

and it was a good thing

lazy people shouldnt get rewards like people who worked for it

sadly nowadays everyone is special - which means nobody is

blizzard should jsut turn wow into moba instance symulator because thats their endgoal .

No Blizzard should do what seems to be their new plan. Keep players busy / subbed by other means than tedious rep grinds.

[ImpalerEU]

Have we heard anything about the plans for flight in shadowlands? Or is it more pathfinder idiocy again?

Idiots like you are the reason retail is a complete joke.

[Softbottom]

Unfortunately, the cat's out of the bag, and it's too powerful to remove it now. It's why pathfinder is a thing though. The idea is you get flying after you've "completed" the game. If it wasn't for gathering being so much faster with flying, I probably wouldn't care, but flying does make the busywork faster.

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Considering pathfinder is things that people playing the game will have done anyway, that's patently false. Stop jumping at boogeymen.

You should speak for yourself. "Playing the game" Doesn't get you pathfinder. What if someone only does pet battles? There is no way for that person to achieve flying other than doing the main story for ALL zones and doing weeks of WQ's. Same goes for PVP players. Myself; If I get max level and still have a zone to do the last thing I want to do is do an entire story in a zone I don't give two shits about. Once I'm done as you would like to say "playing the game" I still wouldn't have pathfinder. Some people don't like WQ's. Guess what you can't fly without doing them.

The "just play the game argument" has always been hella weak. People play the game differently. Flying used to only be gated by gold which was universal currency that players could get by doing ANY part of the game thus alloying EVERYONE to fly without doing content they don't want to do.

[Adamas102]

This is nice and all, but I think there should be something a little better associated with those who ground them all out.

%T the Pathfinder...?

Why? We reaped the rewards by being able to fly in those expansions when others couldn't. Who really cares at this point?

[korijenkins]

about time, wasting time while leveling in WoD serves none other than idiots that belive that trivial stuff have to be 'earned' by wasted time, WoD has been irrelevant for years, personally when leveling i always skip draenor entirely via dungeons/archaeology and the likes, might even give the continent another chance now

With flying it's the easiest expansion to level through, you can simply collect treasures and do the bonus objectives on the map and get to 100 without doing an actual quest past the entry.

[VoidSeeker199X]

Pathfinder was there for a reason. Removing the flying rewards makes all of it obsolete. Might aswell remove flying completely at this point.

[stariv]

I really hate that flying is locked behind such a boring rep grind. I don't mind it being time gated, or the other pathfinder requirements. Revered with every faction is a lame grind is just too annoying and not fun at all.

[nnelson54]

This whole concept that permeates certain sections of society that its not fair if anyone else ever has it easier than me is so weird and foreign. That is how it is SUPPOSED to work. People coming behind you having it easier is how the entirety of human history has functioned. I've had all my Pathfinders since the patch each was released and I love this change, because as someone who has done them you should know the entire grind is bullshit.

[crakerjack]

While this is good news overall, I wish those that obtained WoD/Legion flying received something meaningful. Sure I get to keep my extra movement speed in Legion content, but how valuable is that when I'm doing relevant content in Shadowlands. I don't collect mounts and have plenty of mounts that I prefer over the skyterror. Hell, even if it was something simple like "Hey you got flying before we made it free, so here's 5k gold" would work with me. Being able to have faster % speed in legion content and a mount I've never used is kind of "meh". I'm not upset, just wish there was something more being done for those that already have it.

[BetrayedOf52]

My friend just farmed BFA flying, spent weeks on it, then 100% rep buff comes... kind of a slap in the face but not biggie... BUT if they removed bfa path finder right after everyone just farmed it woooow.

Honestly stop putting it in the game all together or dont remove it until 2 exps later like WoD and Legion. it's the only fair way.

[Magnagarde]

As someone who has unlocked WoD, Legion and BfA flying a long time ago, I don't mind this change, but what I do mind is how it is branded as something that is supposed to give a "consistent experience". If they want to equalize the leveling experience, then why are they keeping no flying in for BfA? Why allow players to get flying in WoD and Legion, but not in BfA? What's the excuse to now barr players from flying in Shadowlands a lot earlier when the criteria for having to earn an achievement to fly is now null and void? There really is no point in having players jump through hoops and then look backward to see others achieve the same things they did with no time spent playing. The justification for achievement-gated flying in expansions since WoD was that a player has only earned to fly once they've done enough content within said expansion and that is measured through Pathfinder progress. Why is it then that players don't need to earn that for WoD and Legion, but have to do so for BfA? And how does Shadowlands being a new expansion justify no flying from the get-go, other than "We want to make you spend more time doing stuff because this is now and what we required you to do in the past is now trashed time". If anything, this is about their inconsistency, not leveling experience consistency.

This change, which I support, should now also void the entire Pathfinder scheme which is nothing but the timegating of flying for those that actively play in order to juice playtime out of them. There's absolutely nothing valuable to these achievements anymore and it makes getting them in new expansions all the more pointless and tedious when you know that they'll be voided a year or two later.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on top of this all those who have unlocked flying for these three expansions will now need to buy flying on newly created characters, despite having the adequate Pathfinder achievements, in order to fly on them? I didn't quite understand whether we who have all the Pathfinder achievements will still have to pay for flying on alts that we'll level once Shadowlands goes live. If that is the case, then the only thing that we get out of this is additional gold expenses because as things stand we just mount up and fly, provided the achievement is there.