Are Blizzard bad at balancing?

[Kaver]

Are Blizzard bad at balancing? Probably not. The WoW devs are most likely very competent. However what they do suck at is keeping things simple (which is probably not the devs fault). Look at what they needed to balance in most of BFA:

- specs (abilities, stats etc.)
- talents (and pvp talents)
- azerite traits
- essences

This is already an insane task to balance especially considering they have to balance it all for 3 different pieces of content. Raiding, PVP and M+. However, on top of this they decide to add the Corruption gear to the mix which just makes balancing 10 times harder than it already was. At this point I start to think that Blizzard are into some hardcore S&M. They definitely enjoy pain.

In Shadowlands it seems to get even worse. Blizzard will have to balance:

- specs (abilities, stats etc.)
- talents (and pvp talents)
- covenant abilities
- soul binds
- conduits
- legendaries

This seems completely insane to me. And they probably will add some type of gear system along the way. Nobody is going to be able to balance all these systems on top of each other. Especially not considering that much of the new stuff is class locked so they need to make it work for multiple specs simultaneously. Good luck Blizzard. I hope you don’t get stressed out.

Question: Do we, the players, even need all these systems? Considering how much dev time goes into them and how many problems they create in the game.

[Morgaith]

They are bad at balancing but they also make their job difficult with the mentality that nerfs and buffs ruin the effort people put into their characters while also adding systems that fuck balance further like essences, azerite and corruption. What they need to do is finally close the gap on ranged vs melee in raids and make balance changes every 2 weeks or so.

[Th3Scourge]

You touched on it yourself. The issue itself isn't so much they are bad at balancing, but more they add too many convoluted systems that add way too much complexity to the game. Then due to the systems, they encounter unforeseen circumstances, which were totally predictable by the player base

[Dracullus]

Are you asking if their balance is bad compared to (in my opinion) unreachable ideal? Or you compare to competition that runs their MMO games right here, right now? Because I think these are 2 different questions.

[Itori]

Yes, blizzard has been bad at balancing since WoW launched, and its even more obvious now, and the sad part is with the amount of resources, the amount of player testing and input, and the websites dedicated to breaking down fights, you would think by now they would have things figured out, but no. It feels like the class design team is ran by a bunch of children who just try to make their fav class op.

[Hellobolis]

depends on if the reason they take to long to address things is it really taking them that long to figure it out, or if it's their boss telling them they can't spend time on it.

it's probably the latter tbh.

[Mightytasty]

No, players don’t need all those systems. Blizzard’s obsession with borrowed power during the last 3 expansions has diluted class gameplay and made end game progression overly complex.

They had the perfect formula during Wrath-MoP where class gameplay stood on its own, and the only borrowed power systems were tier set bonuses and trinkets.

[Nyel]

I don't know if they're bad at balancing in general or if they just have better and worse class developers. Just look at the Covenant abilities and you clearly can see which class got better or more creative developers and which doesn't.

[Raelbo]

If you want to balance everything then everything basically has to be the same. As long as the game is going to offer unique classes and specs, which IMO is a substantial part of what makes the game interesting, there will never be perfect balance. Personally I am fine with that.

[hulkgor]

I'd say it's very hard, if not impossible, to keep the game at a 'perfect balance state', considering the 36 specs, associated with all the secondary systems like Azerite, Essences, Corruptions, and aiming at balance at every sort of content - raid, dungeons, pvp, arena, etc.

That said, they should do more number tuning, more frequently. 3-6 months shouldn't need to pass to buff a underperforming spec, or take the dominant one down a notch,

Bi-weekly or monthly patches to slightly tweak numbers here and there, would keep the game a lot more balanced, but they probably avoid that due to the whole seasons shenanigans, which is a shame. You're pratically forced to swap to a FOTM class for the duration of said season to be relevant, or you're into a long time of frustration if you're on the low end of the power charts.

[Squigglyo]

A system that is 'fairly' balanced is better for them.

They gain more engagement, level boosts, etc everytime they tune things slightly higher in a certain class.
When new expansions come around, the tuning swings, giving some players a 'reason' to come back nad others to reroll.
It also keeps expectations at a manageable level. We expect things not to be balanced.


If they somehow managed to perfectly balance the game this coming expansion.
- we would expect it all the time, forcing them to continue to be perfect
- there would be much less need to reroll and/or buy level boosts other than cause you feel like it, not cause min/max dictates it
- etc

Everytime an unbalanced piece of gear comes out, countless people flock to get it. Grinding out hundreds of hours/runs/spending gold, thinking blizzard is stupid and they are 'beating the system'.

[Kaver]

A system that is 'fairly' balanced is better for them.

They gain more engagement, level boosts, etc everytime they tune things slightly higher in a certain class.
When new expansions come around, the tuning swings, giving some players a 'reason' to come back nad others to reroll.
It also keeps expectations at a manageable level. We expect things not to be balanced.


If they somehow managed to perfectly balance the game this coming expansion.
- we would expect it all the time, forcing them to continue to be perfect
- there would be much less need to reroll and/or buy level boosts other than cause you feel like it, not cause min/max dictates it
- etc

Everytime an unbalanced piece of gear comes out, countless people flock to get it. Grinding out hundreds of hours/runs/spending gold, thinking blizzard is stupid and they are 'beating the system'.

I guess this is true. But there are also a lot of players who leave the game completely because they get sick and tired of all the secondary systems.

[PenguinChan]

Blizzard knows how to balance they just refuse to do it all the time. If you know that they already purposefully make it so some classes (or specifically specializations) under-perform or don't do as well because they don't want them to - that should tell you volumes about their 'balance'. Can they do it well and make things more even? Of course, there is no doubt about that. But that's not their goal, they like having power abilities and classes that do well.

[Krimzin]

You touched on it yourself. The issue itself isn't so much they are bad at balancing, but more they add too many convoluted systems that add way too much complexity to the game. Then due to the systems, they encounter unforeseen circumstances, which were totally predictable by the player base

So if they didn't try and add spice to the game, you guys would gripe because it was so plain and boring. They are damned if they do, damned if they don't. No matter what Blizzard does to enhance the classes, players are always going to find something to complain about.

[Squigglyo]

I guess this is true. But there are also a lot of players who leave the game completely because they get sick and tired of all the secondary systems.

Thats different. Blizzard went all out with the BS this time. Experimenting to see how far they can push the average player.
I expect they saw that this xpac was 'too far' and reigned it in for shadowlands.

[Kathranis]

Well, they're effectively balancing 36 different classes with varied talent, gear, enchant, and alt advancement options for half a dozen different types of content.

Considering that, I actually think they do pretty well.

They could do even better if they made things easier on themselves and toned down the complexity and systems.

If you compare to FFXIV, for example, that game has no real way to vary playstyle outside of class and maybe the haste stat. In FFXIV, every dragoon is just a dragoon. In WoW, there are like, dozens of different kinds of rogues, depending on the combination of playstyle customization options you choose and what type of content you're playing.

[Kaver]

Well, they're effectively balancing 36 different classes with varied talent, gear, enchant, and alt advancement options for half a dozen different types of content.

Considering that, I actually think they do pretty well.

They could do even better if they made things easier on themselves and toned down the complexity and systems.

If you compare to FFXIV, for example, that game has no real way to vary playstyle outside of class and maybe the haste stat.

I agree. The WoW devs are probably doing a great job considering the conditions they work under. I just hope they will spend more resources on continuously tuning and tone down a bit on the secondary power systems.

[Th3Scourge]

So if they didn't try and add spice to the game, you guys would gripe because it was so plain and boring. They are damned if they do, damned if they don't. No matter what Blizzard does to enhance the classes, players are always going to find something to complain about.

Oof that bootlicker statement.

They are damned if they do and don't admit that what they tried doesn't work

[Kaver]

If you want to balance everything then everything basically has to be the same. As long as the game is going to offer unique classes and specs, which IMO is a substantial part of what makes the game interesting, there will never be perfect balance. Personally I am fine with that.

Nobody said perfect balance

- - - Updated - - -

So if they didn't try and add spice to the game, you guys would gripe because it was so plain and boring. They are damned if they do, damned if they don't. No matter what Blizzard does to enhance the classes, players are always going to find something to complain about.

Not if they made new content like dungeons, raids etc. instead. Personally I don't care very much for all these gear/power systems. It doesn't "add spice to the game" for me. If they make great talents then that's enough. Then I'm happy. The things that make me play the game are systems like M+ and raiding. As long as those systems are good I will not get bored with the game.

[Easyclassictopkeklel]

Ever played a balanced mmorpg with itemization? Probably not, because MMORPGs like this do not exist.
There is too much stuff interacting with each other. The only way to "balance" the game would be to remove
itemization from pvp and use fixed templates for EVERY class and spec. And even then it would be hard if not impossible
to balance it in a way that almost every class combination is equal performance-wise.

WoW never was balanced and never will be. Complaining about it is absolutely pointless...