Why keep arenas and high end PvP out of the equation? That takes skill and commitment and in fact is easier to organize... You only need 1-2 of your friends and you can play arenas at any time during the day.
If you're gonna go down that path then why not go all out?
Hell if you wish to get BIS from head to toe, 2.4k arena rating should be mandatory. In fact, the best trinkets in the game should be arena exclusive. Best weapons should come from mythic raiding? How does that sound?
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
I don’t think anyone is dismissing non-mythic raiding players. The reality is that the rest of the non-mythic raiding content doesn’t require mythic gear. Why do you need ilevel 226 gear for torghast or world quests or low mythics? You don’t and that’s not meant to be mean or dismissive or patronizing. I’m not a mythic raider, so I’m looking at it from the outside just like you are. Does it really make sense that every single content type has the same path to the same quality gear regardless of the difficulty of the content?
I never said that people who do lower end content should get high end gear.
What I said is that the gear progression is so absurdly fast that even people who want to slowly, casually progress while playing low-end content aren't afforded that opportunity. There isn't a chance to just slowly gear up through heroic dungeons, crafting, reputations, etc.. You are blasted past that content so quickly that it isn't a viable way to play the game anymore.
"stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
-ynnady
have fun playing another mmo. im sure there is something better out there.....um
and m+ will never give the same ilvl as mythic raiding for one simple reason: there are no lockouts.
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i agree. as long as people dont start in on the "no content. nothing to do." garbage. because its one or the other. you either have necessary content, or you dont.
cant have things both ways.
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m+ is alternate content. but as long as you can spam it, iot will never have similar gear rewards.
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yup. who doesnt like getting upgrades every other week people complain endlessly when they spend a month not getting a raid drop, what will they be like when there isnt endless loot drops elsewhere to make up for it....
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sure. will only take 3 months or so (with good luck that is)
Are you joking? you must be joking. Yes i give credits to mythic raiding. Ive done that, it takes effort time, coordonation and actually get people for it. But NM/HC doesnt require none of that. It doesnt take that much time people dont need to be on voice wich means its little coordonation to be done and "actual" players who require so much less responsability then doin anything higher then a m15.
TrueAll the main lore points occured in raids
TrueAll the best gear came from raids
Truethere was raiding or pvp to progress - that's it
FalseYou're lying or completelt wrong I'm afraid, particularly in Wrath
True
Here is a thread about numbers of raiders in WotLK. The numbers were _much_ lower in BC, and lower still in Vanilla.
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...tical-analysis
TLR because I know most people won't bother to look:
There are no numbers for early ICC in the thread. Ulduar was incredibly popular and probably had higher numbers, but if you think it went from like, 40% in ulduar to 10% in ICC, you're kidding yourself, and ICC is considered one of the best raids of all time subjectively, certainly by me.
~10% killed arthas on Normal 10 or 25
~0.5% killed arthas on Heroic 10 or 25
~8% of people killed Shannox (first firelands boss) on normal
~3% of people killed shannox on heroic
~2.5% of people killed ragnaros on normal
~0.05% or so (less?) killed rag on heroic
Note that these numbers are still from when there were 10million + users playing the game.
Raiding _has never been_ popular in WoW, despite how many claim it is the cornerstone of the game. It's not. It has never been. It got brute forced into that position with LFR, which many raiders barely count as raiding anyway, and then with splitting into 4 difficulties, of which the first 2 can be completed nearly by a group of 3 year olds. There were blue quotes that I can no longer find these days around the time they talked about why LFR was made that said that raid participation in Vanilla and BC was literally under 1%, and they couldn't justify making the content for such a small number of players.
Let's stop pretending raiding is something it isn't, and hasn't ever been. Raiding is what Blizzard WISHES was the cornerstone of the game, not what the players want to be the cornerstone of the game. I started raiding in Karazhan and all through wrath and mop, and I loved it. But even then, it wasn't anything near what its reputation pretended it was.
Last edited by Delekii; 2020-09-17 at 01:08 PM.
So by your casual logic, you're saying a dng that takes 15-20 minutes with 5 people that you can do non stop everyday all day to target specific pieces of loot for specific gear slots, should be on par ilvl wise with gear that drops off a boss you wipe on for weeks/months that is split between 25 people that you can only do once a week?
k
You're totally missing the point here. The point is they're trying to shove content down people's throat and that never ends well for the game at the end of the day. For many classes Conflict and Strife was the BiS essence and it required a minimum 1.4ish k rating to acquire and a month or so of capping conquest. That stirred up a shitstorm from the PvE community and it literally took minimum effort. People hate doing what they don't like, period.
You might think dungeons are easier to clear but that's just your opinion, it isn't as objective as you might think it is. Mythic raiding can be hard the same way high keystones can be and arenas past 2.4k are even harder than both. Adjust the loot quality according to the difficulty of the content they drop off. It's not that hard really. Figure out a fair system. Rendering one type of content useless is not the solution.
Repeatability of M+ and lack of scaling gear with higher keystones is the issue here and that is the problem they should focus on solving. I like pushing keys. Don't make me feel like a second class citizen by giving me loot that's inferior to hc, it's rather simple. If you wish to get me back to raiding give me the incentive to farm at least hc raids by adding cool trinkets or bringing back tier sets or a similar system other than azerite.
Explain what you mean by not relevant. Content is as relevant to you as what you want out of it. If you're doing mythic+ dungeon content to get the best gear you were doing the wrong thing in the first place. If you were doing Mythic+ with the objective to set reputable times you basically had to Mythic raid anyway.
The changes have made no difference to this. You still get mythic gear.
im sure HC only raiders "simply" grind +20 on daily basis...
what exactly is wrong with system as it is now? last hc bosses give better gear than M+15, so M+ is competitive way of gearing, but raiding, be it heroic or mythic, STILL gives best gear... not to mention trinkets and some azerite from hc is STILL better even if you are decked in full M+15 weekly chest gear...
after the change, if you raid heroic you dont need to bother doing more than one M+, as apart from weekly chest everything from it will be useless vendor trash...
so to sumarise: right now m+ competitive gear, raids still provide best gear, so both are usefull
after change, M+ BARELY above normal raid, raids provide even better gear, so M+ becomes kind of useless, and will be just a chore to do once a week
It should be locked behind higher difficulty. I am ok with weekly chest cap being unlocked at lvl15 but i.e. but they could still give better loot on higher levels.
I would say cap should be somewhere around 20 and work like Visions loot - first time you get loot on 20 you get something in between HC and mythic lets call it 220. If you do more 20s or 18/19 you would get 215, after that you loot 210 would be HC level at 17/16 and finally it's hard cap would be at +15 205ilvl. If you can only reach level 18 only one peace will be dropped, so loot is rare and it won't even be the best as the max level is at 20 so skill will reward that extra good piece of loot.
Vision loot concept was really good for skilled players until it got passively nerfed by cloak level. If you don't introduce such nerfs in m+ besides what gear gives you will effectively have that power level locked behind skill. Ofc raiders would say now I have to grind +20s and hope that one piece that drops is for me, but that would be sub mythic level and also same argument comes to m+ players when they are locked out of BiS gear in other content.
Hopefully they introduce tiers in pvp, raiding and m+ so players don't have to do content which they don't want to do so they don't lose 30% of character power because they don't pvp/raid
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mythic is 20 ppl btw.
People calling SL "raid or die" clearly have no clue what that actually means.
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