Bonus rolls are removed in Shadowlands

[Jester Joe]

Just chiming in here, off topic: When wowhead lists stuff like that, it means 30% of the profiles on wowhead right?

Just interested :P

I'm fairly certain it pulls from the Blizzards API, so the armory. I could be wrong but as far as I know that's what it is

[Doffen]

I'm fairly certain it pulls from the Blizzards API, so the armory. I could be wrong but as far as I know that's what it is

Oki, thanks for answering

[TheFirstOnes]

Oh thank god...

Finally, loot matters even more now.

[kaminaris]

Let me correct that math for you.
Chance of getting an item is .2.
Chance of not getting an item with a bonus item is .8 x .8 = .64.
Chance of getting an item is .36.
Chance of getting THE item is .36\2.5 as bosses drop 2 to 3 items per spec = 0.144

Chance at not getting THE item in chest is 24\25 " 23\24 * 22\23 = 0.88.
Chance of getting THE item is 0.12.

So as the correct math shows, there is barely a difference between the two systems and if your targeted boss has 3 or more items that your spec can use then the numbers swing in favor of the chest.

That math is invalid because "getting useful item" is completely irrelevant. Getting specific item is where the money is.
Such as best trinkets/weapons.

You won't be crying that you got wrong pants, but you sure as hell will cry if blizzard releases another broken raid trinket and you will not get it for entire tier.
That is the point.

Like vita charged titanshard that at least half of raid wanted. Everyone was rolling and you could get 1-5 trinkets per week due to all these people using coins.

So in your math you forgot about 3 factors, whole raid group, loot being more rare and loot trading.

[Amsden]

Not with the bad luck protection.

Unless they only ever bought like, 3 coins.

Didn't even know Bad luck protection was a thing I stand corrected. Still think the coins are shit though and glad they're going away.

[Jester Joe]

Didn't even know Bad luck protection was a thing I stand corrected. Still think the coins are shit though and glad they're going away.

My experience is that usually every 3-5 rolls at least gets the highest chance, personally that's when I tend to sit on waiting to roll if I really want something.

But that just might be my luck, it does tack on an extra chance every failed roll.

[TheRevenantHero]

Oh thank god...

Finally, loot matters even more now.

This doesn't make loot matter. All this does is basically tell you to go fuck yourself when you can't get that one BiS trinket for several months in a row because you can't target boss loot anymore.

[Dracullus]

Many of us told you, no titanforging=less drops. Blizzard will never let you gear up in less than month and let your sub expire. Now at least people chasing bis in every slot have "their" game back.

Personally I was pro keeping titanforging up to heroic raids level and make (current tier) mythic raids drop few best items that can't titanforge, through master loot. But hell, let's try one system for everyone, at least it makes game simpler and more coherent.

My experience is that usually every 3-5 rolls at least gets the highest chance, personally that's when I tend to sit on waiting to roll if I really want something.

But that just might be my luck, it does tack on an extra chance every failed roll.

It's not bad luck protection, it's just laws of probability. Chance you will have heads at least once in five coin tosses is higher than chance to get head in single coin toss. Your observation it's "every 5 tosses" is just superstition very common amongs people.

Real bad luck protection (used in legendaries and currently in rank 4 essences from reps) is when chance in single coin toss is higher than previous one. So when you count chance for geting heads at least once in last X coin tosses, it grows way faster with blp implemented.

[iperson]

You got a source on that, coz I'm expecting it to be something that's grindy as hell to get and RNG loaded, because that's what a majority of archaeology is hence why there would be lower stats on it.




You're really going all over the place with your points.

The other user's complaint was the drastic decrease in gear from M+

This isn't an argument about whether or not it's justifiable that they did change it.

It's that you tried telling another user what they do and don't enjoy just because they enjoyed the rewards from M+ also.

One user said there is no longer a reward from doing M+ and said that even though they enjoyed M+ they would no longer do it. If that's not inconsistent then I don't know what is. Clearly they only enjoyed M+ as an efficient way to gear up. It's funny how all these people who "love M+" now won't do it when it doesn't reward BIS. Good on the devs for seeing how bad M+ was contributing to ilvl bloat.

[nacixems]

Im ok with no BR anymore. it is what it is.

[iperson]

That math is invalid because "getting useful item" is completely irrelevant. Getting specific item is where the money is.
Such as best trinkets/weapons.

You won't be crying that you got wrong pants, but you sure as hell will cry if blizzard releases another broken raid trinket and you will not get it for entire tier.
That is the point.

Like vita charged titanshard that at least half of raid wanted. Everyone was rolling and you could get 1-5 trinkets per week due to all these people using coins.

So in your math you forgot about 3 factors, whole raid group, loot being more rare and loot trading.

Never got the xbow off chromag and don't think I ever cried about it. Then again, I'm not a child...

[Aggrophobic]

It says exactly what it should say.

Comparing clearing the ENTIRE raid to clearing one of every +15 in time.
Hell, blizzards main reason for changing that you can't swap gear mid-m+ run was because they consider it one giant encounter, just like you can't change midraid fight.

Or are we going to move the goalposts from "+15s are a joke and heroic raid isn't!" to "well, maybe doing every one is a bit harder..."

Fact is, if you can do +15s, there's nothing stopping you from getting the meta done. And yet far less people have done it than the heroic raid.

Hell, the percentage is closer to cutting edge (3%) than it is heroic.

People can ignore it all they want, but there's a reason +15s reward better gear than heroic does.

It used to reward you with better gear than HC. In Shadowlands it's less than the last bosses in the normal raid.

- - - Updated - - -

It still rewards mythic level gear weekly.

And what are you going on about? You criticized someone for liking M+ for a reward.

And then you tried to use herbalism as some example that was again, people enjoying an activity because they get a reward.

Again, enjoying the reward is a valid reason to enjoy something.

Yeah so it'll take you areound 8 month to max out using just M+ then.
We of course will have had a new patch then so it's not ever going to be possible to get gear with M+.

It's dead content at this point.

[Jester Joe]

It's not bad luck protection, it's just laws of probability. Chance you will have heads at least once in five coin tosses is higher than chance to get head in single coin toss. Your observation it's "every 5 tosses" is just superstition very common amongs people.

Real bad luck protection (used in legendaries and currently in rank 4 essences from reps) is when chance in single coin toss is higher than previous one. So when you count chance for geting heads at least once in last X coin tosses, it grows way faster with blp implemented.

Patch 5.3.0 added bad luck streak protection to bonus rolls.

Whenever you use a bonus roll and you don’t get any loot, your chance of getting loot on the next roll will increase. This increased probability won’t be reset until some loot is awarded, and this is independent of the boss that is being killed. The bad luck streak protection will carry over and continue to increase the probability from boss to boss and instance to instance and won't reset until you get some loot.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Bonus_roll

I'm confused why you're actually comparing the bonus roll to a coin probability honestly, because it's definitely not a 50/50 chance to get loot. Just because they're named after coins doesn't mean it functions like one.

[Dracullus]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Bonus_roll

Oh thx, had no idea that blp rules applies to bonus roll, I though it's just thing invented for legiondaries.

Yeah so it'll take you areound 8 month to max out using just M+ then.
We of course will have had a new patch then so it's not ever going to be possible to get gear with M+.

It's dead content at this point.

Mythic item (out of 3 choices if you do some grinding, but still 2 choices are really manageable) every week that is otherwise unavailable for vast majority. Yep, dead content. I think you're so pissed about loot no longer raining from the sky that you don't put much though into your post (at least this post).

[Kanegasi]

well. Shadowlands starting to look FREAKIN AWESOME now. https://www.wowhead.com/news=318109/...wlands-content

I fixed your post to more accurately portray the playerbase's feelings on bonus roll currency.

[Elias01]

People don't want less loot - people want loot with no RNG. But Blizzard was never going to give it to them, at the same time making it easy to get. They need to keep playing, so sure, here you have it, loot with no RNG. BTW, it will take more time to get now! People would like to get the best of both worlds, but that ain't happening.

Yeah you know players will always want the most easyest way to get stuff. But it doesnt make it good desing.

[Yunzi]

The Weekly Vault is actually a bonus roll with a high chance of good loot. Kill 7 mythic raid bosses, and have two "bonus roll" options. The only downside is that you can't target specific boss loot tables, but the upside is that you also get up to 3 options from M+ and up to 3 from PvP.

Given how terrible the Weekly Vault is in BFA relatively with a very low chance of upgrade after a couple months of a season and given that bonus rolls only give a base 20% chance of any gear at all per roll, much less a choice of gear, the overall loot quantity and quality of the Shadowlands system is higher than in BfA, at least within raids. It's only M+ that's getting greatly reduced.

[Aggrophobic]

Oh thx, had no idea that blp rules applies to bonus roll, I though it's just thing invented for legiondaries.



Mythic item (out of 3 choices if you do some grinding, but still 2 choices are really manageable) every week that is otherwise unavailable for vast majority. Yep, dead content. I think you're so pissed about loot no longer raining from the sky that you don't put much though into your post (at least this post).

Yeah, thats way over 6 month IF you're lucky with the random rolls (lets face it, you won't get that lucky). Even 8-9 months is not very likely.
M+ can not be used as a method to get gear and you gain nothing else from it either.

It is indead dead content.

- - - Updated - - -

The Weekly Vault is actually a bonus roll with a high chance of good loot. Kill 7 mythic raid bosses, and have two "bonus roll" options. The only downside is that you can't target specific boss loot tables, but the upside is that you also get up to 3 options from M+ and up to 3 from PvP.

Given how terrible the Weekly Vault is in BFA relatively with a very low chance of upgrade after a couple months of a season and given that bonus rolls only give a base 20% chance of any gear at all per roll, much less a choice of gear, the overall loot quantity and quality of the Shadowlands system is higher than in BfA, at least within raids. It's only M+ that's getting greatly reduced.

You need mythic 10 bosses and 10 M+ at 14 or higer and even then i'ts just one item at random. Hardly that good.

[csguba]

Yeah I'm happy with this change too, makes sense considering the chest changes. Good for the game overall I'd say.

[apelsinjuice]

That math is invalid because "getting useful item" is completely irrelevant. Getting specific item is where the money is.
Such as best trinkets/weapons.

You won't be crying that you got wrong pants, but you sure as hell will cry if blizzard releases another broken raid trinket and you will not get it for entire tier.
That is the point.

Like vita charged titanshard that at least half of raid wanted. Everyone was rolling and you could get 1-5 trinkets per week due to all these people using coins.

So in your math you forgot about 3 factors, whole raid group, loot being more rare and loot trading.

in classic we have 2-3 items per boss split on 40 people