Big difference between Dark Rangers and San'layn. The Dark Rangers are closer to death knights in terms of their philosophy. They're more focused than normal Forsaken, so they're not just like "grr death to all who live," and they seem better able to act normally.
Hathorel was there to get revenge on Jaina for his killed friends in Dalaran. He was there as just another member of Sylvanas' cronies.
I would agree that blood elves are probably okay with Dark Rangers because they've given no indication otherwise.
We've never seen the blood elves' reaction to the San'layn because as far as we've seen, none of them knew the San'layn were up for membership in the Horde. I'd like to have seen their reaction, but Blizzard has a nasty habit of depriving us of entertaining reunions (Illidan with Malfurion & Tyrande, Arthas with Varian, etc.).
While i am fully aware they are biased, the cat is out of the bag. Even if some of them fall to the void, they will continue to exist cause they are a player race.
But, i dont think they will do it. The fact that the idea was already used in the vision of N'zoth confirms it. There is no way they will do the same thing again.
San'layn are part of Sylvanas' Forsaken, not Silvermoon. I'm sure the Blood Elves don't particularly like the San'layn, but they can't exactly tell the Forsaken which kind of undead they can or can't have in their nation.
In contrast, the void elves were actually part of Silvermoon before they got kicked out.
More like they were blinded by fear - I don't think you can think the void is terrible dangerous in one instnace and in the next breath think it's not valuable
They didn't believe it was possible and too dangerous, I would personally keep such things away from power hungry war chief so I don't have to be forced to put up with a potentially catastrophic presence.
But then maybe I give the blood elves too much credit, and they were just being dumb about it, I doubt it though. But it's possible.
Dunno. Blizzard doesn't seem to mind repeating the quest of "Blood Elf can't resist power and is gonna screw everything up because a big power source drove them crazy" over and over again.
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of void elves just because there's not many of them and they don't have a home. Purple rock isn't enough. I like races with established lore behind them, so considering Void Elves without being with the blood or high elves is kind of meh to me. I'd like to see the void elves maybe explore the elves' history to see where they can fit in and find something for themselves, because right now, they're like Blizzard took Alleria and turned her into a race. Elf-hating elves with more loyalty to a 20-year old human boy they just met than their ancient homeland. You'd think they might just be upset with Rommath and Lor'themar, and not make themselves enemies of the entire kingdom.
I would've preferred something like Xal'atath possessing the body of that high elf and bringing the bodies of her high elf friends back to a different form of undeath that's more like a void-forged draenei/forsaken type of deal, and finding a reason to send them to work for the Alliance, and make Xal'atath a sneaky Onyxia-type figure in the Alliance. I think it'd be interesting to have an entire race secretly seeking to undermine the faction they're a part of.
In all honesty, I don't care one way or the other about the Void Elves. I just wish Blizzard would quit dragging their feet and just give the void elves normal blood elf hair colors and hairstyles so we can just have our high elves already and be done with it. It's baffling to me why they keep making these baby steps and seeing the players as mindless beasts to be leashed and caged instead of just giving us what we want in a game they want us to pay for and play.
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What makes him a hypocrite? As far as I know, fel doesn't have a will of its own and whisper to you to kill everyone around you. And even if it did, Lor'themar wasn't the one to decide to use it. His prince sent powerful magi who rebuilt Silvermoon and reclaimed Eversong Woods overnight. I think the breath of relief as the Scourge was finally driven back would have shown him the value of fel-powered magisters.
And then the light Sunwell was back after a year or so at the same time he became the full actual leader of the blood elves.
The last time the elves lost the Sunwell, it was devastating. Coupling that with the void literally being the opposite of the Light, which most in Azeroth equate with good, you can't blame them for reacting strongly, preemptively, and wisely imo once it was proven that being close to the Sunwell threatened to flip it from light to void. How could they be trustworthy when any time, one could be corrupted by the void and be just a puppet trying to sabotage Quel'thalas or the Sunwell?
Last edited by Koryn123; 2020-09-28 at 01:18 AM.
Well, i do agree that their lore needs development and they need a place in the world, not just the rift training grounds.
There was a void veil in old Quel'thelas. I hope Blizzard builds them a retreated settlement there.
On that note, Gilneas needs to be a thing as well. It's just sitting there, unused.
Danger is not always synonymous with value. But Umbric's people were also exploring avenues explored earlier by Darkhan Drathir, the High Elf who personally allowed the Scourge directly into the heart of Quel'Thalas and in so doing led to the near-downfall of their kingdom. Perhaps they didn't fear the Void as much as they did Umbric's people going the way of Darkhan, or even allying with the Scourge.
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Fel is corrupting and corrosive to the soul by its very nature - it warps, mutates, and unhinges fairly swiftly even without the requirement of whispering madness to its users (and you could easily argue it's six of one and a half-dozen of the other).
And I think there's a pretty significant difference between driving those who do research into dangerous sources of power like the Void into exile, and sensible caution keeping them far from the re-ignited Sunwell so as to avoid future problems. The Blood Elves know well the stigma attached to exploring dangerous powers and using forbidden magic - so to exile their own for the same explorations seems both hypocritical and callous to me. Lor'themar also already struggles with the exile of the High Elves from Quel'Thalas for threatening a schism among his people, and yet he makes the same decision with Umbric's people and drives them directly into the arms of the Alliance (as opposed to simply earning their ire). So yes, I think hypocrisy covers it pretty well.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
While it is true, danger is not always synonymous with value, , power is, and it is very hard to believe the blood elves aren't aware of the power of the void, they can't be that dumb for a power hungry magical race.
So I more predisposed to believe they know it's valuable, it's just that the danger outweighs the value in this case, just like the Darnassians during the long vigil where the danger of using the arcane (which meant bringing back the Legion and end of world) outweighed all the benefits they could grasp from it, and fear, "too risky" likely kept them from giving Darth'remar's ideas the consideration they could have done.
now Nelf fans would ofc support their decision at the time, Thalassian fans won't, but valuable, the void would be, but too dangerous.
It is possible they feared Umbric's people going Darkhan's path, quest texts alludes to some concern, but to me it seems more in the direction of pursuing a forbidden path (of which void was one of several he looked into) against the warning of the council of leaders, the fear is quite clearly framed as the Sunwell's corruption/destruction, and you wouldn't want Sylvanas knowing of the void elves she'd likely try to force them to make use of them and this power, a position they wouldn't want to be.
It's hard to think any race on Azeroth doesn't know the power and value of the void, but also aware of how dangerous it is as none of have withstood the whispers - (until now), but then who'd believe Alleria is successful? With Velen, Tuarlyon and Illidan to vouch for her? 3 people blood elf leadership won't trust, or be convinced that if she as she could successfully teach others.
But come on, everything about the void screams too dangerous, that's got to be the main issue, and what would compel anyone to go there? The immense power it holds, - the distinction with the void elves is that they were motivated out of trying to protect their people and world from that threat, rather than Darkhan like motivation of personal power born out of his fragile ego and insecurities. That's how they frame their story. Prior to Alleria and Umbric's group, those who went seeking the void were already cultist of the same insecure ilk as Dark'han looking for power to make up for their failings and inadequacies - everyone else in their sane mind just wouldn't touch it, but it would seem these ones were sufficiently motivated, and while their motivation was not enough, they happened across someone who was capable of completing the level of knowledge need to successfully start tapping that stream. At least that's how the story goes. So far.
Made a thread about it. There's some pictures there.
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-thelas!-(PTR)
Last edited by Swnem; 2020-09-28 at 04:35 AM.
Even so, Lor'themar wasn't the one to decide to use fel and they seem to have stopped using it as soon as they could (as far as we've seen since BC).
It could have been past experiences with negative influencing magic that drove them to be banished in the first place. Elves already have a tough enough time with arcane as it is, considering how often Blizzard pulls the "blood elf goes crazy with wonky magic source and is about to screw everyone over so kill them" lever.
If you ask me, it could easily be interpreted not as hypocrisy, but as learning from past experiences with corruptive magic influences and taking steps to avoid repeating the same mistakes, until Blizzard goes full ham into the modern storytelling trope of "the thing that has a reputation for being good in this genre is actually bad and has been all along now that we've retconned 30 years of franchise history, you dumb gullible idiot" and makes the Light completely mustache-twirling oppressive evil.
What you said about them not wanting Umbric's group going down the route of Dar'Khan could be the main reason why they were banished. Dar'Khan wanted power and used his friendship with Lor'themar to gain information on their defenses to trade for it. Banishing them from the secured part of Quel'thalas would at least remove that particular danger, should they fall victim to the whispers of the void.
Also, I think it's a bit of a stretch to equate banishing those elves who'd become void elves with banishing the high elves. Weren't the void elves described as a squad or something? People threatening the security of the kingdom, the merciful thing is banishment.
They didn't have to join the Alliance, and only did so because Alleria saved them and offered them a place and guidance with the void. Still, Lor'themar shouldn't have expected them to be neutral and remain inactive by default. That said, I think if the void elves want Quel'thalas to rejoin the Alliance, then joining the fight against them on the Alliance's side probably wasn't the best way to go. The better option would've been to try and show them they can control the whispers (though I doubt their new appearance would inspire much confidence in Lor'themar and Rommath) and act as diplomats between Silvermoon and Stormwind.
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That's very interesting. It's a shame they went with generic void black and purple aesthetic. Why do the big bads always default to black + (insert color)? Legion is black and green, Scourge lost their dynamic orange, purple, and green to become largely black and blue in WotLK, and Void is just black and purple.
I think it'd be much more interesting for the void elves to remain closer to home and be hiding out in that peninsula close to the Ghostlands. It'd make it much more believable that they still care about Quel'thalas, especially if they had some background text mention that despite the banishment, they're staying there on that little stretch of land and periodically venturing into the Ghostlands to kill Scourge, helping Quel'thalas whether Lor'themar likes it or not, proving that the void can be used to benefit their people.
Much more believable than just joining Stormwind's army and fighting blood elves with no reservations. That tells me all they really care about above their homeland and everything else is just doing what Stormwind tells them to, like Alleria.
Ren'dorei are not meant to have a rich, background lore because they are the only playable race that is new. That's the point. It was the same thing for the Quel'dorei back when they were first exiled 7.000 years ago. Do you think they had a rich kingdom and culture? No, they were literally 20 mutated night elves who made their home in a bunch of ships. It's the same thing for Ren'dorei, for the first time in WoW's history we bore witness to the rise of a new race, and the obstacles that such a race might face when they have low numbers and a small home.
Even so, the Ren'dorei are able to field large military forces despite their low numbers, as was shown many times during the Fourth War. At the Battle of Lordaeron, Alleria Windrunner led a regiment of Ren'dorei rangers, then in Nazmir the Ren'dorei could afford to send several spellcasters to the suicide mission, and finally in Zuldazar Magister Umbric and his mages worked to raise several fallen dinosaurs for war purposes. Their home Telogrus Rift is also a place they can call refuge, and is a perfect refuge. Not only is the Rift completely isolated from all the mortal enemies of the Ren'dorei, as it's located in the Void and thus only the Ren'dorei can access it, but it also contains a lot of knowledge and power of the Void, making it a perfect base of operations for the Ren'dorei.
In comparison, the founders of Quel'thalas used a bunch of small ships as their base, thus the Ren'dorei are in a much better position.
The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!
Since they are former blood elves, all lore related to sin'dorei before their exile applies to them as well, so I don't really believe they have that bad background. Their story was being told since WC2. What we get is the reason why they were formed as independent group aligned with the Alliance, rather then Horde. Many people argue that nightborne get whole campaign and end game zone + raid dedicacted to them, but they are a group which split from their brethren 10 thousand years ago and since then, they developed into something different, so proper introdution is in order. If discovered void elves alongside Army of the Light as members of Alleria's squad which followed her from Quel'thalas to Outland and which was transformed by the Void during their missions to stop the Legion, it would require entirely different storytelling.
What is great potential of void elves, and also their greatest need, is development of their lore. Many other races have their racial stories closed since Cata and nothing new, larger story focus mostly on common enemies or faction as whole. We've seen birth of ren'dorei, now it is time to show us how they deal with their role in the Alliance, how they are confident in participating in the war against the Horde, what are their goals, interests and most importantly their relations with blood elves.
My point is that there's a reason why Void elves don't have a rich background of their own. It's because they are a new race, which split off from the Sin'dorei only 1/2 years ago (in-universe). All other playable races are already established for centuries or millenias, while the Ren'dorei are a new race, and that was a unique decision Blizzard made. Just like how most of the background of Void elves comes from when they were Sin'dorei, likewise the background that Dath'remar and his people had 7.000 years ago came from when they were Kaldorei.
Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-09-28 at 09:39 AM.
The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!
the important thing the void is dangerous to the sunwell. and in Quelthalas society the sunwell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
It is normal that they prohibited it because it endangers what is most sacred and important for the entire kingdom, the void elves were playing with dangerous powers and almost destroyed them, imagine that they did not exile them and they would have created a portal in the middle of silvermoon where horrors of the void would kill to all? because they began to use the void well only when the locus walker began to guide them. That is the difference that the highborne they knew how to use arcane magic and were experts in it, the void elves were not experts in void at that time and had to be saved.
Last edited by Rhlor; 2020-09-28 at 10:02 AM.
The writing is inconsistent because Blizzard are bad writers. The Blood Elves actions would have to be called hypocritical if the writing was to be taken seriously. They exiled High Elves from Silvermoon who were speaking out against the Blood Elves absorbing fel magic, and left them to die. And then they call the Void Elves traitors for experimenting with the Void. And at the same time there are Blood Elf Shadow Priests, and other races in the Horde that have Shadow Priests. It's so bad, you can't help but lose all interest in the story.
Of course they absorbed fel magic. Do the starting zone. They have fel crystals there and their eyes are green.
That is completely wrong. They were exiled because they refused to absorb fel magic and spoke out against it. They became wretched because of their withdrawal of magic.
The Warcraft Encyclopedia/Blood Elves
Even so, the prince's relatively quick acceptance of dire measures (e.g., draining magic from demons) is by no means characteristic of blood elves in general. The blood elves of Outland have by now discovered Kael'thas' agreement with Illidan, and they have for the most part become convinced of its necessity. Most blood elves still live on Azeroth, though. Few of these elves know of Kael'thas' pact with Illidan, and many would be horrified if they discovered it. Draining magic from small mana-bearing vermin is a far cry from draining magic from demons.
blood elves absorb mana from mana wrynn no fel.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Wretched_H...m_and_Villainy
Description
<Race>... please, I ask your help.
Something's happened to my people. Our commander, Ranger Lord Hawkspear, came upon an item of magical energy, and my friends, my family... they succumbed to its seductive power.
They're corrupted, <race>. All of them.
My Ellaria wouldn't want to live like that, nor would any of my brothers. Please, put them out of their misery. Quel'lithien Lodge is not far; it's just up the hill, to the northwest.
Rewards
You will receive: 65s
Progress
You have no idea how difficult it was for me to pull myself away, <name>. I nearly ended up one of them.
Completion
Do not feel sorry for me. Those were my friends that you saw at Quel'lithien Lodge, but they were already as good as dead.