Any ideas how to kill rogue in wpvp?

[Rucati]

1v1? You don't. No class in the game can currently kill a Rogue 1v1, and honestly no class in 8.3 could kill a Rogue 1v1 either, so it seems like that's unlikely to change any time soon.

In all honesty even 2v1 you likely won't kill the Rogue, he'll just leave. Rogues are far and away the strongest PvP class right now, and even more so 1v1. Even if you get the jump no them it makes no difference unless they don't have a trinket and you can stunlock them.

[exsanguinate]

1v1? You don't. No class in the game can currently kill a Rogue 1v1.

The F you talking? I heavily struggle against good destro locks and shadow priests as a rogue. Plate wearers otherwise are easy to exploit.

[Meowtwo]

The F you talking? I heavily struggle against good destro locks and shadow priests as a rogue. Plate wearers otherwise are easy to exploit.

He means that a rogue can always (or often enough) open with all his cds and cloak vanish sprint away if he doesnt win in the opener, so its hard to actually kill a cowardly rogue.

[themortalgod]

I think there are 2 questions here:

1. How to survive unexpected rogue burst in wpvp.
2. How to kill the rogue when you do.

Number one depends on the gear gap and your reaction time. I'm a 184ilvl Enhance shaman with full vers gear, the earth shield legendary, and pvp trinkets. Even if I'm full HP I only survive a sudden rogue gank about 60% of the time. (Though I've been finding lately they tend to roam in pairs, if so, 0 chance). I've noticed quite a range of burst depending on the player, some Rogues seem to need both stuns to kill me. Others kill me so fast I don't even have time to react. Kitties are the same. I had one kitty gank last night where I instantly popped trinket and astral shift, but I was still dead before the GCD of astral shift ended. I don't think there is much I could have done in that situation. The cat did something like 35k damage in under 2 seconds. That said, for me, as Enhance, if I survive that initial burst, the rogue or kitty is never going to kill me. Once I get the maelstrom healing train going, they can't win. If you, however, are tanky enough that you could metaphorically go to the fridge then I'd say with a PVP trinket you should be fine. That suggests to me that the rogue is taking at least a few GCDs to kill you. Trinket + defensive prob means they won't kill you before they run out of stuns.

The question of killing them is much more difficult. Unless you get lucky and unstealth them with something after they vanish, there really is nothing you can do to kill a Rogue unless they are suicidal. That is what Rogues do, they pick unfair fights and the second the odds begin to turn they have the tools to easily escape. Though I find that usually if a Rogue runs, they don't regank, presumable because they would rather go find a victim that they know they can beat. This is the rogue mentality: cowardice.

[Rucati]

The F you talking? I heavily struggle against good destro locks and shadow priests as a rogue. Plate wearers otherwise are easy to exploit.

If you're dying to Destro Locks as a Rogue I have no idea what to tell you. Rogues literally hard counter Locks so much it isn't even funny. SPriests really can't kill Rogues either unless something goes horribly wrong. If either class trinkets your stun you can just blind/sap reset and kill them during your next opener. If if they don't they just die in the stuns. If they get the jump on you then you can cloak/vanish and reopen and start again.

Really Rogues don't lose 1v1 to any class.

[ReVnX]

And anyway, 99% of people are just too bad to kill rogues anyway. It is relatively simple.

Specially when you cannot cast a SINGLE spell before you are dead, even if you are spamming it.

[enigma77]

Rogue stuns need to be nerfed by at least 50%.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Why are people arguing about the state of rogues? There's plenty of videos of Pikaboo killing people in a GCD and ironically saying they're fine. Unless they're memeing like he is...

[Specialka]

Probably not less skill overall, but if we take legion/bfa (especially in 2s) what you did for the first 5min of quite a lot of games was totally irrelevant unless you did absolutely nothing at all. Skill only came in when you added the dampening.

I think its universally accepted that mop and woltk were the 2 best pvp expansions in wow, both of which were very burst focused (not to say that those expansions didnt have slow games, and mop did sadly added the cancer that is dampening).

That would be true if we could global the rogue in return if he fails. Which we can't because while having the best engage in the game, he also has the best tools for running away and picking his fights.

And as a caster, even if the rogue "fails" his engage, we won't be able to cast a single spell if the rogue knows what he is doing.

[sephrinx]

In my experience as a rogue, plate wearers are a bitch. Ret paladins are damn near invincible with all their bubbles (100% invinc, melee invinc, 100% heal...) and pretty much anyone specced as a tank your attacks just bounce off or get immediately regenerated. I remember piling on with 5 people onto a blood dk, his health didn't even dip.

If you don't bubble the opener you're dead.

Can't Trinket/HoJ because they'll just CoS or whatever and your only stun will "miss" them, resulting in you being burst down in under 4 seconds.

Even as a tank, 183 item level with near 40k hp, I still will get killed within the duration of cs/ks if I don't have bubble and trinket up.

[Sciborg]

You can't right now, not really, assuming they play correctly. My rogue alt is 165 wearing vers/mastery honour gear and 151 crafted pieces, no crit legendary, sitting around 18% vers before trinket buff with 50% mastery or so. I can regularly kill people in full mythic and low vers in kidney with just kyrian, symbols, MfD and shadow dance, which is a 45 second cycle, or a cheap shot if I have shadow blades and cold blood on top. If they're full vers PvP gear and with mythic vers gear on top then I can't get them in the cheap shot but it's because I don't have the legendary.

As spriest the most success I've had is dispersing the opener, saving trinket for blind, cancel disperse a couple seconds early to avoid cloak, fear into mind control, psychic horror after they trinket. Sfiend, apply dots naturally, vampiric embrace and void eruption in that order, if they cloak and try to run you down through it you greater fade, damnation when cloak ends. If they vanished and cloaked then you're dead on the next opener regardless of what you do, if they haven't vanished yet then you just need to get mindgames off and you win, usually fairly easy to fake the kick at this point.

I'm entirely certain I could beat my own spriest on my own rogue despite the gear difference, but when it comes to world PvP, BGs, duels etc, it's been consistent against them. Spriest is also really strong now though, if you're a feral druid or something you're just done.

[Meowtwo]

That would be true if we could global the rogue in return if he fails. Which we can't because while having the best engage in the game, he also has the best tools for running away and picking his fights.

And as a caster, even if the rogue "fails" his engage, we won't be able to cast a single spell if the rogue knows what he is doing.

Well, you maybe cannot in a 1v1 but its not 1v1s that matter, or skirm 2v2s. In a proper 2s or 3s comp you probably can.

[Specialka]

Well, you maybe cannot in a 1v1 but its not 1v1s that matter, or skirm 2v2s. In a proper 2s or 3s comp you probably can.

I do not really care for 2v2 or 3v3. We are talking about wpvp where 1v1 matters.

[Rehija]

Hunter here. Its about 50/50 against Rogue

[Monster Hunter]

I havent played since launch of bfa and since then i am not up to date, but sub rogues are way OP. Stunned whole way to death all the time from different players. Would the pvp trinkets resolve this issue?

The problem is with being stunned for the whole thing lmao ������ I literally went to the fridge and came up, yup still stunned


Nelf DH <
Venthyr
183 ilvl

Ehhh not really atm. There massively op and in line for some big nurfs.

Till then all ive found that works at least a couple times is to be very quick pop trinket and get my own stun in befor they can react with either another stun or vanish, then blow CDs and try to one shot them back. Only works against bad rouges players with bad gear though.

But 90% of the time theres not much you can do except get ready for the corpse run, even to rouges with way less gear than you, it just is what it is right now, take some small comfort in knowing when the nurf bat hits its gonna hit hard as usual and all those rouges being dicks now will be buried in salt when it inevitably lands.

[Ermelloth]

From my Ret PoV Destro Locks are way worse than any Rogues 1vs1 right now.

Stupid amount of CC, damage, mobility and defenses overall. They have literally no downside. 1vs1 they are grossly overtuned.

I got one trinket against 2 instant CCs + fear + slows. There is nothing you can do if lock is same level / higher geared than you. Thus, Lock easily tanks all my burst like really nothing. At least I can get Rogue down from 100-0 if I can catch him w/o CDs or get out of stealth, or pop defensives to heal myself after his opener.

Vs Destro there is nothing Ret can currently do unless there is a pillar or anything nearby you can hide.

[ParanoiD84]

Nah just bend over there is barely even time to react before death lol.

[kranur]

I havent played since launch of bfa and since then i am not up to date, but sub rogues are way OP. Stunned whole way to death all the time from different players. Would the pvp trinkets resolve this issue?

The problem is with being stunned for the whole thing lmao ������ I literally went to the fridge and came up, yup still stunned


Nelf DH <
Venthyr
183 ilvl

Re-roll to rogue and wait for enemy rogues to open up on othets, then kill them.

[Dziubla]

and their Anima abilities just got buffed
and don't be surprised if their class is BUFFED again. This is typical of Blizzard turning a blind eye to players who love and enjoy PVP but allow classes to get so far out of control that it takes years to repair their thinking process.

Rogues will only get stronger in the game, followed up by Hunters

Somewhat offtopic since I don't really do pvp, but - you clearly haven't done any Torghast on a rogue. Plenty of classes can literally oneshot bosses even with 150ilvl on layer 3, while prebuff 180ilvl rogue could struggle on layer 2 bosses, and it wasn't just some trash rogues who needed to l2p, it was vast majority of rogues. I have 5 level 60s currently, and as far as Torghast goes, even after buffs, rogue powers are still...extremely shit compared to other classes. Literally the only saving grace is the fact that the class itself is decent, but as usual it will get nerfed as it always is after enough crying like in this thread, and then I have no idea how are we supposed to solo higher Torghast layers. Meanwhile DHs, DKs, mages, boomkins, BMs, and who knows what else faceroll it even without gear.

So yeah. While rogues do seem strong in pvp (tho to be fair, that has been the case in the beginning of xpacs for years now, rogues benefit a lot from people being undergeared), elsewhere things aren't as great as non-rogues seem to believe.

[exsanguinate]

Specially when you cannot cast a SINGLE spell before you are dead, even if you are spamming it.

Get a trinket that what is it for in PVP