If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Unbelievable]

That's not Xplodium charge though. You picking up any explosive item and saying this is "X ability" from a class concept is like me saying that Black Arrow can be swapped out for Serpent Sting because they both cause DoT damage. Frankly I would have a better argument because Serpent Sting is actually a class ability, not an item with a 10 minute CD between uses.



Again, no difference. The Brewmaster isn't selling martial arts, and the Tinker isn't selling Tinker abilities and claw packs. However, unlike the Tinker, the Brewmaster has direct lore ties to Chen Stormstout. So I'll ask again, why aren't the Brewmaster vendor and Brewmaster Chen the same?

If Serpent Sting did Shadow damage and, also, raised the dead, you'd have something of an argument.

The difference is that the Goblin Mortar does fire damage and, also, stuns the target, like Xplodium Charge.

I've already answered that. There is double meaning in the title Brewmaster but, only one in the Tinker. Lore-wise, if you'd find a difference between an Engineer and a Tinker, let us know. Because, currently, they overlap:

"Tinkers (or tinkerers and tinkologists) are engineers mostly represented by gnomes, goblins, and dwarves of the Alliance, Horde and the Venture Company."

Weapon types Explosives, various devices

Skill(s) Engineering

Goblins are known for their mechanical expertise and clever, though sometimes peculiar, inventions, and the Tinker is certainly no exception. With his Claw-Pack/Hammer-Tank combo, the Tinker's ingenuity is undeniable. Though his parts may sometimes fail and the occasional explosion does occur, the spirit and enthusiasm of this Hero are never diminished. There truly is more to the Goblin Tinker than meets the eye!"

"Engineers take advantage of their inventiveness to create an immense (and occasionally random) variety of helpful items. By tinkering ceaselessly, and tolerating malfunctions and misfires, an engineer can make utterly unique objects: sight-enhancing goggles, potent guns, robot pets, mechanical mounts, and even more unusual trinkets. Successful engineers use their inventions to solve problems and make life easier, faster, and better for themselves and their companions."

If the Tinker, also, used martial arts, for example, in addition to the tinkering, then you could say they are different.

Of course, Tinkers are a type of engineer.

Yet, they are viable but, other class "types" aren't?

But yeah, I do think that professions and classes could synch up a bit more. Especially if they have some thematic overlap. Enchanting should be a cakewalk for a Mage or a Warlock for example. Blacksmithing should come easy for Warriors. Druids should be able experts at herbalism. Monks and Rogues should have an easy time with Alchemy. Inscription should be second nature to Death Knights, etc.

Enchanting would go more towards the Mage, than a Warlock:

"The elves have long delved into the magical and arcane as evident by their cultural centerpiece, the Sunwell. Thus, they have developed a natural Arcane Affinity as a result of the well's magical presence, making the blood elves naturally skilled with arcane arts such as Enchanting."

Blacksmithing is, also, associated with the Lightforged Draenei and Dark Iron Dwarves (through racials), Which have a connection to Paladinism and Shamanism.

Forge of Light
Lightforged draenei racial
5 min cooldown
2 sec cast
Summon a Forge of Light, enabling Blacksmithing.

Blacksmithing skill increased by 10.

Mass Production
Dark iron dwarf racial
Passive
Increases Blacksmithing skill by 5 and Blacksmithing speed by 25%.

I would associate Herbalism with Shamans and Monks, as well:

"Being great huntsmen and natural wanderers with a certain natural affinity, the tauren developed a deep knowledge of the botanical life of Azeroth, using it in various shamanistic rituals, as well as for medical treatment. Because of this, the tauren are natural herbalists."

Mistweaver
"A healer who mixes traditional herbal medicine with Pandaren martial arts."

Monks should have an easy time with Cooking, not alchemy, as can be seen with the Pandaren racial trait.

Way of the Brew
Instant cast
Allows a cook to create delicious brews up to a maximum skill of 600.

"The Way of the Brew is a style of Pandaren cooking mastered by Bobo Ironpaw. The recipes do not focus on any stat, but allow the creation of several unique alcoholic brews which can increase stats or cause amusing side effects."

[Jade Witch Brew]
[Banquet of the Brew]
[Great Banquet of the Brew]
[Mad Brewer's Breakfast]
[Four Senses Brew]

Rogues should have an easy time with Alchemy, as can be seen with:

Crimson Vial
Level 16 rogue ability
30 Energy
30 sec cooldown
Instant
Drink an alchemical concoction that heals you for 30% of your maximum health over 6 sec.

Iron Stomach
Level 60 Outlaw rogue talent
Passive
Increases the healing you receive from Crimson Vial, healing potions, and healthstones by 30%.

Master Alchemist(3 ranks)
Rogue artifact trait
Increases damage dealt by Deadly Poison and Wound Poison by 5/10/15%.
Agonizing Poison
Increases the effect of Agonizing Poison's damage bonus by 5%.

Inscription should be second nature to Mages:

Ancient History
Nightborne racial
Passive
Inscription skill increased by 15.

You're confusing Vantus Runes with Death Knight Runes, instead of Magical Runes:

"Runestones are large blocks of rock carved with powerful magical runes. The high elves of Quel'Thalas built several runestones along their borders."

Rune of Power
Talent
30 yd range
1.5 sec cast 45 sec recharge
1 Charges
Requires Mage
Places a Rune of Power on the ground for 12 sec which increases your spell damage by 40% while you stand within 8 yds.

Casting Icy Veins will also create a Rune of Power at your location.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/File:Blood...Glenn_Rane.jpg
"A blood elf by Glenn Rane. Notice the magical runes around his left eye."

See? you're more useful suggesting, instead of dismissing.

[Teriz]

If Serpent Sting did Shadow damage and, also, raised the dead, you'd have something of an argument.

The HotS version of Black Arrow doesn’t raise the dead. Also you can get Serpent Sting to do Shadow Damage via Entropic Embrace.

Or you can just wait for it to return to the Hunter class.

The difference is that the Goblin Mortar does fire damage and, also, stuns the target, like Xplodium Charge.

And it isn’t a viable ability because it’s an item with a 10 minute CD between uses. Also we actually have Xplodiun Charge in WoW so there’s no need to substitute the ability.

I've already answered that. There is double meaning in the title Brewmaster but, only one in the Tinker. Lore-wise, if you'd find a difference between an Engineer and a Tinker, let us know. Because, currently, they overlap:

Which is like saying there’s no difference between enchanting and a mage because both are magic-based. The Mage’s spells don’t exist in enchanting just like the Tinker’s inventions don’t exist in engineering.

"Tinkers (or tinkerers and tinkologists) are engineers mostly represented by gnomes, goblins, and dwarves of the Alliance, Horde and the Venture Company."

Weapon types Explosives, various devices

Skill(s) Engineering

Goblins are known for their mechanical expertise and clever, though sometimes peculiar, inventions, and the Tinker is certainly no exception. With his Claw-Pack/Hammer-Tank combo, the Tinker's ingenuity is undeniable. Though his parts may sometimes fail and the occasional explosion does occur, the spirit and enthusiasm of this Hero are never diminished. There truly is more to the Goblin Tinker than meets the eye!"

"Engineers take advantage of their inventiveness to create an immense (and occasionally random) variety of helpful items. By tinkering ceaselessly, and tolerating malfunctions and misfires, an engineer can make utterly unique objects: sight-enhancing goggles, potent guns, robot pets, mechanical mounts, and even more unusual trinkets. Successful engineers use their inventions to solve problems and make life easier, faster, and better for themselves and their companions."

Nothing more than semantics.

If the Tinker, also, used martial arts, for example, in addition to the tinkering, then you could say they are different.

Again, if the Tinkers abilities aren’t available then they are different.

Yet, they are viable but, other class "types" aren't?

Yep, because it’s about the concepts, abilities, and lore, not semantic mumbo jumbo. Concepts like Necromancers and Dark Rangers require the unraveling of multiple existing classes in order to make them viable. Even if Blizzard unraveled multiple classes, those concepts still wouldn’t offer anything new to the class lineup.

The Tinker does not require the unraveling of any classes, and would offer something new to the class lineup.

[Unbelievable]

The HotS version of Black Arrow doesn’t raise the dead. Also you can get Serpent Sting to do Shadow Damage via Entropic Embrace.

Or you can just wait for it to return to the Hunter class.



And it isn’t a viable ability because it’s an item with a 10 minute CD between uses. Also we actually have Xplodiun Charge in WoW so there’s no need to substitute the ability.



Which is like saying there’s no difference between enchanting and a mage because both are magic-based. The Mage’s spells don’t exist in enchanting just like the Tinker’s inventions don’t exist in engineering.



Nothing more than semantics.



Again, if the Tinkers abilities aren’t available then they are different.



Yep, because it’s about the concepts, abilities, and lore, not semantic mumbo jumbo. Concepts like Necromancers and Dark Rangers require the unraveling of multiple existing classes in order to make them viable. Even if Blizzard unraveled multiple classes, those concepts still wouldn’t offer anything new to the class lineup.

The Tinker does not require the unraveling of any classes, and would offer something new to the class lineup.

The HotS version does not override the WC3 version. The HotS version is called Black Arrows, with an S at the end. One theory is that they didn't want her abilities to overlap with those of Arthas and Xul, so they gave her Haunting Wave, instead (Banshees). The other theory can be that they didn't want her to be a summoner hero, like they did with Gul'dan, because there was, already, Azmodan, even though summoning demons fits him perfectly.

Entropic Embrace Void Elf Racial
Your abilities have a chance to empower you with the essence of the Void, causing your damage and healing effects to deal an additional 5% as Shadowfrost for 12 sec.

It doesn't replace the Serpent Sting's nature damage and it does Shadowfrost damage, not just Shadow.

I'm betting my money it isn't making a return to the Hunter. You can't make players settle for a Hunter with a Black Arrow, after hyping Sylvanas for 3 cinematic trailers in a row (4, technically, if you count Reckoning) showcasing her abilities.

We were talking hypothetically. Could they have replaced the Xplodium Charge ability of the Island AI with a Goblin Mortar ability? technically, yes. Because it does all the functionality of an Xplodium Charge. The only difference would have been the name.

"Enchanters disenchant surplus magical items - and use the residue to permanently augment equipment of their choosing. With the right incantations and materials, an enchanter can add bonuses to their armor or weapons, making them stronger, faster, or more resilient (among a host of other mystic powers)."

"Students gifted with a keen intellect and unwavering discipline may walk the path of the mage. The arcane magic available to magi is both great and dangerous, and thus is revealed only to the most devoted practitioners. To avoid interference with their spellcasting, magi wear only cloth armor, but arcane shields and enchantments give them additional protection. To keep enemies at bay, magi can summon bursts of fire to incinerate distant targets and cause entire areas to erupt, setting groups of foes ablaze. Masters of ice can command blizzards that tear into flesh and limit movement. Should enemies manage to survive this assault, the mage can shrink them into harmless sheep in the blink of an eye.

Powerful magi can even generate enhancements and portals, assisting allies by sharpening their minds and transporting them instantly across the world."

Again, like with the Brewmaster, Enchanting is only part Mage. Tinker, on the other hand, is entirely an Engineer.

Semantics, eh? can you provide another source of lore that differentiates them from the Engineer?

We're not talking about abilities right now. We're talking about lore.

Oh, it wouldn't? I Think it would... playing a 3-flavored Ranger, that can use necromancy and manipulation, lunar and healing, water and lightning is much more interesting than the dry "Ranger" concept we have in the Hunter right now. Not to mention being able to play as a Witch Doctor, which the Shaman doesn't manage to convey, because it is so focused on the elements. A Samurai that the Warrior, hardly, even conveys with its rage and brute strength. And a Jailer that the scoundrel Rogue doesn't make for a good substitute.

The Tinker requires the unraveling of the Engineering profession, because a lot of its abilities and talents are named after Engineering items. And, you can't have them both in game.

[Teriz]

The HotS version does not override the WC3 version. The HotS version is called Black Arrows, with an S at the end. One theory is that they didn't want her abilities to overlap with those of Arthas and Xul, so they gave her Haunting Wave, instead (Banshees). The other theory can be that they didn't want her to be a summoner hero, like they did with Gul'dan, because there was, already, Azmodan, even though summoning demons fits him perfectly.

Actually it does, because the HotS version is Blizzard's most recent iteration of the ability. If you look at Demon Hunters for example, Blizzard went with the HotS iteration over the WC3 iteration, mainly because many of its WC3 abilities had been eaten up by other classes. The Dark Ranger is no different. Black Arrow went to Hunters, Drain Life went to Warlocks, Silence went to Priests, and Charm is pretty much the control spells that many classes have (control undead, control demon, Mind Control, control elemental, etc.).

It would actually be better for the concept to go with the HotS version, since it actually offers some unique abilities and concepts. Black Arrow WC3 runs too much into Death Knight territory, and really doesn't gel well with the concept.

I'm betting my money it isn't making a return to the Hunter. You can't make players settle for a Hunter with a Black Arrow, after hyping Sylvanas for 3 cinematic trailers in a row (4, technically, if you count Reckoning) showcasing her abilities.

The problem is that what you want is essentially cosmetic. The gameplay for that already exists within the class lineup, and honestly all it would take is adding 2 talents into the MM Hunter spec tree. So in all seriousness what do you think Blizzard would do? Go through the trouble of creating an entirely new class with balance, design, and conceptual issues, or just bring back Black Arrow as a DoT, add a Dark Ranger-style talent, and give Forsaken the option to be undead elves?

We were talking hypothetically. Could they have replaced the Xplodium Charge ability of the Island AI with a Goblin Mortar ability? technically, yes. Because it does all the functionality of an Xplodium Charge. The only difference would have been the name.

No, because Goblin Mortar entered WoW before XPlodium Charge (Vanilla WoW). Hell, Goblin Mortar predates Heroes of the Storm where Xplodium Charge first appeared.

Again, like with the Brewmaster, Enchanting is only part Mage. Tinker, on the other hand, is entirely an Engineer.

Your argument was that Tinker and Engineering are the same because of Technology.

So why wouldn't Mage and Enchanting be the same because of Magic?

Semantics, eh? can you provide another source of lore that differentiates them from the Engineer?

See, that's semantics right there. We're not differentiating Tinker from Engineer, we're differentiating Tinker from engineering the profession. When your character takes up engineering, do they become an engineer, or are they just a Warrior, Rogue, Shaman, etc. doing engineering? It's clearly the latter, because your character is never objectively called an engineer, blacksmith, enchanter, etc. ever in the game. However, your class is mentioned multiple times by multiple NPCs, because that is what you are. No matter what profession you take up, you will always be one of the 12 classes, which is why you can drop a profession at any time and take up another one, or not take one up at all. There's no way for you to play WoW without choosing one of the 12 classes though.

We're not talking about abilities right now. We're talking about lore.

Abilities are part of the lore of a class.

Oh, it wouldn't? I Think it would... playing a 3-flavored Ranger, that can use necromancy and manipulation, lunar and healing, water and lightning is much more interesting than the dry "Ranger" concept we have in the Hunter right now. Not to mention being able to play as a Witch Doctor, which the Shaman doesn't manage to convey, because it is so focused on the elements. A Samurai that the Warrior, hardly, even conveys with its rage and brute strength. And a Jailer that the scoundrel Rogue doesn't make for a good substitute.

Uh huh. And what would be some base abilities of your 3-flavored Ranger? Base abilities would be something like Judgement, Holy Words, Divine Shield, Crusader Strike in the Paladin class, in other words, abilities that would be standard for all three specs.

Shaman don't go full Witch Doctor because it would run too much into the Warlock class.
Samurai make zero sense in WoW since Japan doesn't exist in Azeroth. If you want to be a Warrior that uses a two-handed sword, just go Arms.
Just FYI, the Warden was originally the Assassin in WC3. All of its abilities are designed around the concept of assassination, not jailing, which is why the Rogue class makes sense.

The Tinker requires the unraveling of the Engineering profession, because a lot of its abilities and talents are named after Engineering items. And, you can't have them both in game.

Yeah, because someone would get Goblin Mortar mixed up with Xplodium Charge right?

[cocomen2]

Samurai make zero sense in WoW since Japan doesn't exist in Azeroth.

Seems SaMuRo wants a word with you


Edit:

If you want to be a Warrior that uses a two-handed sword, just go Arms.

And after this , you for real not expect others to tell you "If you want to be a Tinker that uses a tech, just go with Engineering prof"

Lmao, can Teriz post another 1000 useless posts? (i bet he can)

[Triceron]

Seems SaMuRo wants a word with you

InB4 "He's a Blademaster, not a Samurai" and "He's not really Japanese"

[Teriz]

Seems SaMuRo wants a word with you

That would be a Blademaster, not a Samurai.

And after this , you for real not expect others to tell you "If you want to be a Tinker that uses a tech, just go with Engineering prof"

Except engineering isn't a class and has none of the Tinker's abilities. I can't DPS, Tank, or Heal using the engineering profession.

Meanwhile Warrior is a class, and it contains Bladestorm, the Blademaster's ultimate ability, and has the attribute of being a spec that specializes in wielding 2H swords. You can definitely perform a DPS role and be a Blademaster your heart's content.

[Spramp]

We definitely need another ranged class and another mail class also. My vote would be for a dragon themed class, dragon master or something.

Mail armor
You choose which dragon flight you want to be empowered by:

Green dragon = ranged physical (dreamer)
Red dragons = healer (life binder)
Bronze dragon= caster (time bender)
Black dragon = tank (earth mancer)
Blue dragon = caster (spell master)

[Katchii]

I still can't wrap my head around why anyone in this thread, much less on this forum, expects to have an honest discussion with the world's best mental gymnast. Ignore him and this thread might actually turn into a legit new class discussion, rather than a back and forth about why some guys opinions, bad faith arguments and bullshit logic means Tinker is the only class that makes sense.

[Xeenith]

the "dragon sworn" stuff look more and more like a "covenant 2.0 with dragon stuff instead of afterlife/anima"

[Triceron]

I still can't wrap my head around why anyone in this thread, much less on this forum, expects to have an honest discussion with the world's best mental gymnast. Ignore him and this thread might actually turn into a legit new class discussion, rather than a back and forth about why some guys opinions, bad faith arguments and bullshit logic means Tinker is the only class that makes sense.

To be honest, the threads usually die in a matter of days without any back and forth nonsense. I mean, if two people agreed with each other on any point, then the discussion ends. You both have a common understanding, what's left to talk about?

No one really wants to discuss new classes with each other. It's just an excuse to do mental gymnastics.

Forums are echochambers, and its the most vocal who will drown out the rest.

- - - Updated - - -

the "dragon sworn" stuff look more and more like a "covenant 2.0 with dragon stuff instead of afterlife/anima"

I'd still look forward to this if they did it.

I do really like the concept of the Covenant system, and I think it's the best way of integrating other themes into the game without making one class super special and leaving the rest in the dust.

[Katchii]

To be honest, the threads usually die in a matter of days without any back and forth nonsense. I mean, if two people agreed with each other on any point, then the discussion ends. You both have a common understanding, what's left to talk about?

No one really wants to discuss new classes with each other. It's just an excuse to do mental gymnastics.

Forums are echochambers, and its the most vocal who will drown out the rest.

To be fair, this thread should have died a long time ago. It's been almost completely derailed several times due to this "TINKER IS THE BEST AND ONLY CLASS BECAUSE I SAID SO AND NOTHING YOU SAY WILL EVER CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE BECAUSE I'M THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN BE RIGHT!" nonsense.

I come in every once and a while to try and see if any legit discussion is happening...and, it's just more of that same garbage.

If you enjoy it, far be it from me to tell you otherwise, just saying the back and forth isn't really keeping with the purpose of the thread ever since THAT guy showed up.

[Triceron]

To be fair, this thread should have died a long time ago. It's been almost completely derailed several times due to this "TINKER IS THE BEST AND ONLY CLASS BECAUSE I SAID SO AND NOTHING YOU SAY WILL EVER CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE BECAUSE I'M THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN BE RIGHT!" nonsense.

I come in every once and a while to try and see if any legit discussion is happening...and, it's just more of that same garbage.

If you enjoy it, far be it from me to tell you otherwise, just saying the back and forth isn't really keeping with the purpose of the thread ever since THAT guy showed up.

What I'm pointing it out is just how all these threads historically have 'faded' away. People stop arguing, the thread dies. No one discusses classes on the basis of classes really, no one does indepth analysis of someone else's ideas they just go 'that's cool I like it' and that's about it.

I mean, the only way I can see anyone having real discussion is if there was something tangible to talk about; say talking about the merits of the April Fools Bard concept; something everyone knows and recognizes. If we're just talking about concepts in one post lost in a thread of hundreds-a-week, then no one's gonna bother digging that stuff up or even clicking someone's link and read through hundreds of discussions.

Could just be the jaded me seeing all the threads, but I don't really consider any of these kind of discussions 'legit', since everyone has their own idea of what X class should be. If I see 10 people all cheering on the Bard, it's more than likely each one of those people are talking about *their* idea of a Bard without consulting anyone else about what the class should and shouldn't do. That just muddles any real discussion because there's no tangible concept to talk about; even if everyone in the thread reaches a conclusion on how a class should work, someone new to the thread would jump in with their 2 cents without having regarded any of the discussion and it circles all over again.

TBH I think the best way anyone can try to pass on a concept is to make a youtube video about it, get it out there and then have a discussion about that specific concept, rather than just whatever is happening here; which is a whole lot of mental gymnastics to either argue for or against any given concept.

[Traveler Voltin]

I still can't wrap my head around why anyone in this thread, much less on this forum, expects to have an honest discussion with the world's best mental gymnast. Ignore him and this thread might actually turn into a legit new class discussion, rather than a back and forth about why some guys opinions, bad faith arguments and bullshit logic means Tinker is the only class that makes sense.

what other one makes sense?

[Ielenia]

Uh yes it does. If they don’t have the same name, the same functionality, and aren’t even abilities, they’re not the same, period.

They can be the "same" in the sense that they are the WC3's representation in WoW. Fighting in a mech is the same, regardless of name. Launching rockets is the same, regardless of the name.

Yes, even in WC3.

No. Not in Warcraft 3.

We know this because Blizzard went on to showcase the Tinker as a class in other media like both of their table top RPGs that were originally canon;

And none of that media is canon to WoW. That should tell you something.

And just FYI, Warcraft 3: Reforged is canon. Interesting that such a device would show up rather repeatedly over the span of almost 2 decades.

WC3:R being canon is arguable. It's not a game developed by Blizzard, and it has numerous inconsistencies to the actual lore of the franchise.

You mean other than the unique undead appearances for all DK races, the unique mount, the unique starting armor, the unique spells/abilities, etc?

With Monks, how about those monk animations for each race?

Learn the difference between "model" and "texture".

How about all those unique abilities and spells?

Learn the difference between player model and ability animation.

How about that exclusive training zone in Pandaria with exclusive gear?

Learn the difference between player model and world zone.

Also, no exclusive gear. Everything you get there you can also get out in the world.

[Katchii]

What I'm pointing it out is just how all these threads historically have 'faded' away. People stop arguing, the thread dies. No one discusses classes on the basis of classes really, no one does indepth analysis of someone else's ideas they just go 'that's cool I like it' and that's about it.

I mean, the only way I can see anyone having real discussion is if there was something tangible to talk about; say talking about the merits of the April Fools Bard concept; something everyone knows and recognizes. If we're just talking about concepts in one post lost in a thread of hundreds-a-week, then no one's gonna bother digging that stuff up or even clicking someone's link and read through hundreds of discussions.

Could just be the jaded me seeing all the threads, but I don't really consider any of these kind of discussions 'legit', since everyone has their own idea of what X class should be. If I see 10 people all cheering on the Bard, it's more than likely each one of those people are talking about *their* idea of a Bard without consulting anyone else about what the class should and shouldn't do. That just muddles any real discussion because there's no tangible concept to talk about; even if everyone in the thread reaches a conclusion on how a class should work, someone new to the thread would jump in with their 2 cents without having regarded any of the discussion and it circles all over again.

TBH I think the best way anyone can try to pass on a concept is to make a youtube video about it, get it out there and then have a discussion about that specific concept, rather than just whatever is happening here; which is a whole lot of mental gymnastics to either argue for or against any given concept.

All fair points. I'm honestly just surprised people still give THAT guy the time of day given we all know he has no interest actually having an honest discussion. Discussing things with them is equal parts nauseating and infuriating. But you do you (general you, not you specifically), if you're enjoying it or whatever, keep it up, I guess, lol.

[Ielenia]

That would be a Blademaster, not a Samurai.

Really?

Have you looked at his sandals?

Have you looked at his side-skirts?

Have you looked at his prayer beads around his neck?

Have you listened to his accent?

[Traveler Voltin]

The HotS version does not override the WC3 version. The HotS version is called Black Arrows, with an S at the end. One theory is that they didn't want her abilities to overlap with those of Arthas and Xul, so they gave her Haunting Wave, instead (Banshees). The other theory can be that they didn't want her to be a summoner hero, like they did with Gul'dan, because there was, already, Azmodan, even though summoning demons fits him perfectly.

Entropic Embrace Void Elf Racial
Your abilities have a chance to empower you with the essence of the Void, causing your damage and healing effects to deal an additional 5% as Shadowfrost for 12 sec.

It doesn't replace the Serpent Sting's nature damage and it does Shadowfrost damage, not just Shadow.

I'm betting my money it isn't making a return to the Hunter. You can't make players settle for a Hunter with a Black Arrow, after hyping Sylvanas for 3 cinematic trailers in a row (4, technically, if you count Reckoning) showcasing her abilities.

We were talking hypothetically. Could they have replaced the Xplodium Charge ability of the Island AI with a Goblin Mortar ability? technically, yes. Because it does all the functionality of an Xplodium Charge. The only difference would have been the name.

"Enchanters disenchant surplus magical items - and use the residue to permanently augment equipment of their choosing. With the right incantations and materials, an enchanter can add bonuses to their armor or weapons, making them stronger, faster, or more resilient (among a host of other mystic powers)."

"Students gifted with a keen intellect and unwavering discipline may walk the path of the mage. The arcane magic available to magi is both great and dangerous, and thus is revealed only to the most devoted practitioners. To avoid interference with their spellcasting, magi wear only cloth armor, but arcane shields and enchantments give them additional protection. To keep enemies at bay, magi can summon bursts of fire to incinerate distant targets and cause entire areas to erupt, setting groups of foes ablaze. Masters of ice can command blizzards that tear into flesh and limit movement. Should enemies manage to survive this assault, the mage can shrink them into harmless sheep in the blink of an eye.

Powerful magi can even generate enhancements and portals, assisting allies by sharpening their minds and transporting them instantly across the world."

Again, like with the Brewmaster, Enchanting is only part Mage. Tinker, on the other hand, is entirely an Engineer.

Semantics, eh? can you provide another source of lore that differentiates them from the Engineer?

We're not talking about abilities right now. We're talking about lore.

Oh, it wouldn't? I Think it would... playing a 3-flavored Ranger, that can use necromancy and manipulation, lunar and healing, water and lightning is much more interesting than the dry "Ranger" concept we have in the Hunter right now. Not to mention being able to play as a Witch Doctor, which the Shaman doesn't manage to convey, because it is so focused on the elements. A Samurai that the Warrior, hardly, even conveys with its rage and brute strength. And a Jailer that the scoundrel Rogue doesn't make for a good substitute.

The Tinker requires the unraveling of the Engineering profession, because a lot of its abilities and talents are named after Engineering items. And, you can't have them both in game.

I cant believe i have to say this again.

Even if Tinkers became a class, Engineers would still be making Guns, toys, companion pets, trinkers(maybe), mounts, scopes, and sometimes like BFA mace weapons.
so i dont see how it would unravel anything

[Katchii]

what other one makes sense?

Dark Ranger is about the only one I can come up with off the top of my head, without digging too deeply into the lore (besides Tinker, as I do agree that they're plausible). They already exist, they're shown to be trained specially in the arts of the "Ranger" with Dark powers or whatever by Nathanos and Sylvanas. with Sylvanas and Nathanos both gone and the Dark Ranger, and the other Sylvanas loyalists now fending for themselves it's possible they could be on both sides.

I won't speculate as to HOW they would be implemented, because Blizzard can do whatever they want to with them, and can easily design abilities and lore around it. I'm just saying that lore wise, them being implemented would make sense.

[Triceron]

All fair points. I'm honestly just surprised people still give THAT guy the time of day given we all know he has no interest actually having an honest discussion. Discussing things with them is equal parts nauseating and infuriating. But you do you (general you, not you specifically), if you're enjoying it or whatever, keep it up, I guess, lol.

Yep. For me it just passes the time, and is a lot less 'heated' than say any political discussions on X social media platform that's happening in these trying times lol