Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Edge-]

The pressure is in the form of persuading their constituents.

Cool. So are you text banking? Phone banking? Working with any local organizations that are focused on these efforts?

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World hunger is easy enough to solve.

It's really, really not, though. I mean, price tag aside there are huge logistical and cultural issues with resolving the problem. It's not as simple as some of the early charity work in combating hunger thought it was when they started bringing twinkies and other high-sugar, highly processed foods to areas with dire food shortages and found out that it was making everyone violently ill because their malnourished systems were unable to process the food. It took many of them years to learn and transition to more simple foods like rices and other grains that are easier on the system and do a better job of providing nutrition.

That's not to say that the nations of the world should just throw their hands up. But this is another example of a big, complex problem that people thing is simply reduced down to a dollar amount and done with.

[Felya]

I thinks someone should just try to run for president themselves, they have all the answers.

They have a point, the issue is the audience. This is preaching to the choir, which results in a quagmire of tact.

[cubby]

10 U.S. Code § 113 - Secretary of Defense

(a)There is a Secretary of Defense, who is the head of the Department of Defense, appointed from civilian life by the President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate. A person may not be appointed as Secretary of Defense within seven years after relief from active duty as a commissioned officer of a regular component of an armed force.

Further, this is an old article, but still raises the relevant points:

Why Congress Mandates Civilians Lead the Military

“The provision is a law because of America’s nervousness of giving the military too much power,” said Charles Stevenson, a professor at Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies.

“There is a concern that someone who has been a general all their adult lives doesn’t really understand civilian life,” Stevens added. “The secretary of defense has to deal with domestic businesses, has to recruit people from the civilian job sector. If he is just used to commanding he might not be used to commanding civilian society.”

I wouldn't consider that article to be old given the topic. And nice find, too (I found a lot more bolstering your position on this). My point is that while there has always been both codified and policy based reasons to have a civilian SecDef, the duties themselves don't require a civilian.

[Themius]

Cool. So are you text banking? Phone banking? Working with any local organizations that are focused on these efforts?

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It's really, really not, though. I mean, price tag aside there are huge logistical and cultural issues with resolving the problem. It's not as simple as some of the early charity work in combating hunger thought it was when they started bringing twinkies and other high-sugar, highly processed foods to areas with dire food shortages and found out that it was making everyone violently ill because their malnourished systems were unable to process the food. It took many of them years to learn and transition to more simple foods like rices and other grains that are easier on the system and do a better job of providing nutrition.

That's not to say that the nations of the world should just throw their hands up. But this is another example of a big, complex problem that people thing is simply reduced down to a dollar amount and done with.

The bolded is not an argument and you know it. I hope you're not trying to go down the line of "you don't get a say unless xyz" because that's... silly.

The money isn't about food so much.... It is mostly indeed about funding the logistics of moving food to areas that need it and cutting down on waste that's costing 100 billion a year.

[beanman12345]

They have a point, the issue is the audience. This is preaching to the choir, which results in a quagmire of tact.

The issue is the audience, which is my point. I mean, who on this board was a Biden supporter in the primaries, who was gonna vote for Harris? We here on this board, we're the outliers, hence, it doesn't actually matter what his point is, Biden is the president. He should run for president he says he has all the answers.

[Edge-]

The bolded is not an argument and you know it. I hope you're not trying to go down the line of "you don't get a say unless xyz" because that's... silly.

Why not? You say you care about this shit, so why aren't you doing something about it rather than complaining on the internet? When I have causes I care about (like when there was a more concerted push for M4A in CA, or getting out the vote in GA etc.) I try to find groups where I can volunteer to work towards achieving those goals I care about.

If you're just going to complain about it on an internet form, then excuse me if I don't treat your complaints with too much seriousness. You gotta take actual action if you want change.

The money isn't about food so much.... It is mostly indeed about funding the logistics of moving food to areas that need it and cutting down on waste that's costing 100 billion a year.

Yes, but there's huge disagreement in how to tackle the problem both on an overall and a granular scale, and estimates on the cost range from anywhere from $50B-250B or more depending on which analysis/estimate/plan you're looking at.

That's my point. If it were easy, they'd do it. There'd be consensus. But there's not consensus, because it's not as easy as you make it seem to be.

I don't mean this as an insult but like, a lot of folks grossly underestimate how challenging addressing massive and systemic problems are while also frequently not understanding how governments work and who does what. The earlier discussion on why Biden can't just deschedule weed and de-facto legalize it being a prime example.

[Milchshake]

Buttigieg advances out of committee, 21-3. If confirmed, Buttigieg would become the first LGBTQ cabinet secretary.

[Edge-]

Buttigieg advances out of committee, 21-3. If confirmed, Buttigieg would become the first LGBTQ cabinet secretary.

https://www.eriegaynews.com/news/art...francesperkins

Well, the first openly LGBTQ+ cabinet secretary.

Though wasn't the Trump administration trying to say one of their acting guys counted?

Either way, I'm totally here for a fabulous infrastructure week.

[Endus]

Be that as it may, there are still a limited number of hours in the day, we're ONE WEEK into this administration, they're still staffing up and trying to pick up pieces, and can only accomplish so much at once.

It's interesting that even 4 years ago, the standard for quick and decisive action was "the first 100 days". And even at that time, it was deemed a largely implausible time frame for most proposals. And now, "the first 7 days" is apparently way too long to have waited, based on what?

It's a fucking weird goalpost to shift, and the amount that it's been shifted by just for Biden is . . . indefensible and unrealistic.

The money isn't about food so much.... It is mostly indeed about funding the logistics of moving food to areas that need it and cutting down on waste that's costing 100 billion a year.

Here's the real issues with your position;

Solving the logistical problems costs way, way more than the "waste" you're talking about. It also necessarily would require international levels of authoritarian control over food production and distribution, to the point that families would all get ration cards detailing pretty much exactly what you get, without giving you much choice in the matter. And that's in every country that's involved in the process. The only way around that is to step up production to such a level that the "waste" we produce is greater, because we've stepped up production so those developing countries with famine issues can be as wasteful with food as the developed world.

We should have better means to deal with that waste, yes. Locally, for instance, there's food collection bins; green bins everyone has access to. They're provided free, by the city, in various sizes so that each household can get an appropriately sized container. Apartments and such get smaller ones that dump into a shared collection bin, and townhomes and separated houses get their own that has weekly collection at curbside. The system's even been retrofitted to let people dump organic waste, including kitty litter, in plastic bags; the machines on the other end will automatically remove them. All that organic material goes into creating publicly accessible compost and other such uses. It's difficult to call that "waste", given how its repurposed to something new.

[beanman12345]

Buttigieg advances out of committee, 21-3. If confirmed, Buttigieg would become the first LGBTQ cabinet secretary.

*senate confirmed cabinet secretary.

[Felya]

Either way, I'm totally here for a fabulous infrastructure week.

It’s why I think this was the best gay couple on TV... ever...

[Thekri]

I'm not following your train of thought here. How is a former General impinging upon the neutrality of the military? Mattis was hands down Trump's best SecDef.

So the problem with a General as SECDEF is that a General is speaking with the experience and mindset of the US Military, in a position that is supposed to govern and hold accountable the military. It is essentially the "Fox guarding the Henhouse" situation. I have no problem with Gen. Austin, he is a fine officer, but he is an officer, and the DoD is supposed to be a civilian agency. The problem doesn't really stem from Gen. Austin, it stems from the fact that the more this gets normalized, the more the Military gains autonomy to itself, and the less beholden it is to the nation it is supposed to serve. That isn't a problem as long as the Generals are good men and patriots, but it IS a problem when that stops being true.

Picture Gen. Flynn as SECDEF if you want to see the problem with it. He actively encouraged the President to use the military to remain in power. We have a law that prevents this for a reason, I don't like seeing it waved for every square jawed Military Officer that gets nominated.

Mattis was... slightly different. I was uncomfortable with him having the position, but since he was a competent professional, not a Yes-Man, and an actual fucking adult, I was ok with it because he was better then anything else Trump could put there. Biden actually has a mature and experienced cabinet, and if we rejected Gen. Austin, he would fill it with a different mature adult that doesn't have those troubling Stars on his shoulders.

[Themius]

Why not? You say you care about this shit, so why aren't you doing something about it rather than complaining on the internet? When I have causes I care about (like when there was a more concerted push for M4A in CA, or getting out the vote in GA etc.) I try to find groups where I can volunteer to work towards achieving those goals I care about.

If you're just going to complain about it on an internet form, then excuse me if I don't treat your complaints with too much seriousness. You gotta take actual action if you want change.



Yes, but there's huge disagreement in how to tackle the problem both on an overall and a granular scale, and estimates on the cost range from anywhere from $50B-250B or more depending on which analysis/estimate/plan you're looking at.

That's my point. If it were easy, they'd do it. There'd be consensus. But there's not consensus, because it's not as easy as you make it seem to be.

I don't mean this as an insult but like, a lot of folks grossly underestimate how challenging addressing massive and systemic problems are while also frequently not understanding how governments work and who does what. The earlier discussion on why Biden can't just deschedule weed and de-facto legalize it being a prime example.

Mm and 250 billion to solve a world hunger crisis seems just fine if the world's governments got to actively and seriously working on it. Logistical nightmare sure... but is it only a nightmare because it hasn't really been a very top priority of the world's wealthiest nations to "solve" the issue to begin with? As many governments all over the world are going through a... anti-immigrations conservative swing... such a thing as "let's solve world hunger of people overseas" doesn't exactly sell well yeah?

The reason your argument doesn't work is that it is basically a no true Scotsman.

"A true person who is serious about this issue would already be involved!"
"But I am serious about the issue and I am saying what I think needs to happen to put pressure on the senator via his constituents"
"But what about the phone banks?! See then you're not a person who is serious."

In any case, I am involved in local politics on issues I care about. Your argument opens up the silly notion that even if someone is involved in politics if they're involved in something else and notice another issue unless they then go to that issue then they can't say anything about that other issue. It is a fucking bonkers idea.

[beanman12345]

https://www.eriegaynews.com/news/art...francesperkins

Well, the first openly LGBTQ+ cabinet secretary.

Though wasn't the Trump administration trying to say one of their acting guys counted?

Either way, I'm totally here for a fabulous infrastructure week.

Yeah Grenell was openly gay. But as you said, not senate confirmed.

[Milchshake]

The first openly LGBTQ. It's highly unlikely he'd be the first.

Thanks <progressive ally>! This in no way sounds like an attempt to diminish Buttigieg's achievement.

Also, the year anniversary of Joe Rogan's "endorsement".

[Endus]

Buttigieg advances out of committee, 21-3. If confirmed, Buttigieg would become the first LGBTQ cabinet secretary.

I'm open to Buttigieg proving me wrong, but his work history with McKinsey is bothersome. He worked with them, on the Loblaws account with McKinsey, in the middle of the Loblaws bread price-fixing scandal. His job for Loblaws, in his own description, was complicated price analytics and manipulation to maximize profits for Loblaws. It doesn't take a genius to see that there's VERY little daylight between Buttigieg's work and the unethical and illegal conduct by his client. He claims he didn't know what they were doing, but that's a pretty empty protest, based on nothing but his word, which I have little reason to take all that seriously.

He comes off as an empty suit, parroting whatever he thinks will get himself ahead. I'm open to being proven wrong about this, but that hasn't happened to date.

I couldn't care less about his sex life. It's this shit that bugs me about him. And if anyone's expecting me to give him a pass because "but he's gay"? That's crassly tokenistic, and I'm not gonna agree with that.

[Themius]

It's interesting that even 4 years ago, the standard for quick and decisive action was "the first 100 days". And even at that time, it was deemed a largely implausible time frame for most proposals. And now, "the first 7 days" is apparently way too long to have waited, based on what?

It's a fucking weird goalpost to shift, and the amount that it's been shifted by just for Biden is . . . indefensible and unrealistic.

have you considered the massive shift is because the situation of our government seems more dire than it has before? That we are far more acutely aware of how gridlock can easily happen and so are anxious to get things done as soon as possible before the window closes? REMEMBER OBAMA there was so much he wanted to do... and he had 2/8 years to do them before GRIDLOCK and the generation that voted for Obama is very very very very aware it doesn't matter what the president wants to do... when they have the chance they must take it as quickly as possible else face the same gridlock that left hundreds of judgeships an unfilled supreme court seat and the most ridiculous far right turn of our judicial system that doesn't' align with the public.

all because of purposeful gridlock and when you consider we now have Obama's VP and President the first thing that probably comes to many minds is exactly what happened during those years, no?

Seriously...between now and 2022 this seems very much like the only opportunity democrats and Biden will have to actually pass legislation to get their agenda rolling. Maybe democrats will still show up for the midterms... but that would require that the people voting have the same urgency they have now.

Here's the real issues with your position;

Solving the logistical problems costs way, way more than the "waste" you're talking about. It also necessarily would require international levels of authoritarian control over food production and distribution, to the point that families would all get ration cards detailing pretty much exactly what you get, without giving you much choice in the matter. And that's in every country that's involved in the process. The only way around that is to step up production to such a level that the "waste" we produce is greater, because we've stepped up production so those developing countries with famine issues can be as wasteful with food as the developed world.

We should have better means to deal with that waste, yes. Locally, for instance, there's food collection bins; green bins everyone has access to. They're provided free, by the city, in various sizes so that each household can get an appropriately sized container. Apartments and such get smaller ones that dump into a shared collection bin, and townhomes and separated houses get their own that has weekly collection at curbside. The system's even been retrofitted to let people dump organic waste, including kitty litter, in plastic bags; the machines on the other end will automatically remove them. All that organic material goes into creating publicly accessible compost and other such uses. It's difficult to call that "waste", given how its repurposed to something new.

I see your point, though in general, it doesn't seem much of an important issue for many of the richest countries to work to actually see how they could do something about it. So doing anything worldwide when USA for instance has issues with child hunger seems impossible.

[Endus]

I think the biggest reason he didn't do better in the primaries is many people have a similar impression of the man. I'm hoping he can prove them wrong in the future, but I can see how he comes off as someone who has crafted their life to be the perfect politician.

Particularly as this is what McKinsey does. They're a consultancy group whose specialities are data analytics and spin doctoring. They've been perfectly willing to work with authoritarian regimes and pretty grossly unethical companies, as long as they pay the bills.

I need to see something from Buttigieg that makes me think I'm seeing the real dude, rather than a well-crafted and ironclad public face he's built up and prepped for his run at public office.

[Themius]

Particularly as this is what McKinsey does. They're a consultancy group whose specialities are data analytics and spin doctoring. They've been perfectly willing to work with authoritarian regimes and pretty grossly unethical companies, as long as they pay the bills.

I need to see something from Buttigieg that makes me think I'm seeing the real dude, rather than a well-crafted and ironclad public face he's built up and prepped for his run at public office.

He is a man in a suit who tells lies and blames kids for getting hit by cars when a traffic light is covered with a bag because a consultant firm told the town to.

the city of South Bend put a bag over a traffic light in 2016 after a consultant claimed the intersection of South and Michigan streets didn’t need one.

The light was covered and a notice was posted about the changing infrastructure at the intersection, but community pushback was so fierce that the city decided to simply install new lights there.

In early 2017, however, before the new lights were activated, an 11-year-old boy was struck and killed by traffic at the intersection. An SUV hit the child and his brother while they were walking to their school bus, the Tribune reported.

Despite the fact that the community demanded safety infrastructure for the area, then-Mayor Pete Buttigieg downplayed the city’s role in the child’s death, instead hinting it was the boy’s fault.

After the city posted signs saying that traffic control measures at the corners were under study for removal, it decided to install new lights there for all four directions of traffic because of community feedback, Buttigieg said.

"We simply don't know whether it would have made any difference yesterday morning as two children darted across the street, at an angle, and one of them, outside the crosswalk, was struck and killed," the mayor said.

Just this alone... is enough to be like... mmm maybe fuck this guy? Despite the community feedback for wanting lights... near a bloody school because a consultancy firm says they don't need them, out they go. There's literally a school like... two blocks away?

[beanman12345]

It's interesting that even 4 years ago, the standard for quick and decisive action was "the first 100 days". And even at that time, it was deemed a largely implausible time frame for most proposals. And now, "the first 7 days" is apparently way too long to have waited, based on what?

It's a fucking weird goalpost to shift, and the amount that it's been shifted by just for Biden is . . . indefensible and unrealistic.



Here's the real issues with your position;

Solving the logistical problems costs way, way more than the "waste" you're talking about. It also necessarily would require international levels of authoritarian control over food production and distribution, to the point that families would all get ration cards detailing pretty much exactly what you get, without giving you much choice in the matter. And that's in every country that's involved in the process. The only way around that is to step up production to such a level that the "waste" we produce is greater, because we've stepped up production so those developing countries with famine issues can be as wasteful with food as the developed world.

We should have better means to deal with that waste, yes. Locally, for instance, there's food collection bins; green bins everyone has access to. They're provided free, by the city, in various sizes so that each household can get an appropriately sized container. Apartments and such get smaller ones that dump into a shared collection bin, and townhomes and separated houses get their own that has weekly collection at curbside. The system's even been retrofitted to let people dump organic waste, including kitty litter, in plastic bags; the machines on the other end will automatically remove them. All that organic material goes into creating publicly accessible compost and other such uses. It's difficult to call that "waste", given how its repurposed to something new.

IIRC the 100 days thing had to do with FDR fixing the great depression because Hoover simply couldn't be bothered to deal with any of it during his presidency(yeah deja vu huh?), but yeah FDR couldn't fix shit in 7 days, Biden certainly can't.