Carries in Arena are a Problem.

[pawsz]

Arena is just about boosts for gear and mogs. Blizzard runs it to generate cash. Its not a serious game mode at this point. Remove it.

Somebody sounds salty he's shit at arena

[Big Thanks]

Finally someone made this thread...i was thinking of making one.

Yes...i agree 100%

[Ryzeth]

carries aren't a problem if you can play above 1800... even a rank1 player can barely get a normal carry above 2k/2.1k...

This is 1000% false.

Pikaboo, Jaz, Trillebartom three people who immediately come to mind as people who do 2k-2.4k carries pretty regularly. Pikaboo's always playing with viewers and carrying them to 2k and beyond for free. Zenlyn and Spacerat frequently do as well, albeit marginally harder to 'carry' as a healer. Pikachu's done it a lot as well.

2k in SL is like 1.4-1.6k pre-Legion. Inflation has ruined the ladder.

[csguba]

This is 1000% false.

Pikaboo, Jaz, Trillebartom three people who immediately come to mind as people who do 2k-2.4k carries pretty regularly. Pikaboo's always playing with viewers and carrying them to 2k and beyond for free. Zenlyn and Spacerat frequently do as well, albeit marginally harder to 'carry' as a healer. Pikachu's done it a lot as well.

2k in SL is like 1.4-1.6k pre-Legion. Inflation has ruined the ladder.

Lol, what a load of rubbish the above in bold is.
Inflation is there for sure, such as in the last season of BFA, but it's no where near as high as previous and to say it's equivalent to 1.4-1.6k is absurd. I got 2k in WotLK literally clicking half of my abilities, in what was probably only my second ever season playing arena. I was awful (though I'm still not great :P) and so were my pve guildies who also sat between 1.6-2k. Getting to 2k this season has been significantly more difficult than back then.

Referring to OP, as someone currently playing an alt in the 1700s bracket I'd say boosting is rampant, my friend and I will often armory people after a game if they've had large health pools and I don't think it an exaggeration to say at least 25% of our games currently are against people boosting.

[Varaben]

Lol, what a load of rubbish the above in bold is.
Inflation is there for sure, such as in the last season of BFA, but it's no where near as high as previous and to say it's equivalent to 1.4-1.6k is absurd. I got 2k in WotLK literally clicking half of my abilities, in what was probably only my second ever season playing arena. I was awful (though I'm still not great :P) and so were my pve guildies who also sat between 1.6-2k. Getting to 2k this season has been significantly more difficult than back then.

Referring to OP, as someone currently playing an alt in the 1700s bracket I'd say boosting is rampant, my friend and I will often armory people after a game if they've had large health pools and I don't think it an exaggeration to say at least 25% of our games currently are against people boosting.

Agree, in prior seasons getting 1800 or even 2k wasn't really that big of a deal, but in SL it feels a lot harder. Not sure what exactly the cause is, but it's frustrating to fight gladiators in the 1800 bracket in 2s. Kinda wild out here. Obviously rating inflation was a thing, I seem to recall the gladiator cutoff in Wrath was like 2400 or maybe 2500, like the ratings didn't get any higher than that (I remember when Reckful got 3k rating in Cata which was the first ever). Now people are doing 3200 3300 or more.

But in the lower brackets it's a shit show without PVP scaling. I'm not saying we should have scaling, but right now you can easily get stuck in a bracket with no way to move up and get better gear. I see people in skirmishes with 25k HP and you can literally one/two tap them. No vers, no HP, they just fall over. Has to be frustrating for them. I'm not sure what the solution is because 3k rated players should be able to play with twitch viewers and make alts and all that - like it's not really fair to say "OK you're 3k on your main so you have to face 3k players on your alts you just made" either. Hopefully Blizz comes up with something because it feels like PVP beats people down right now.

Maybe solo-que will fix it.

[Cæli]

This is 1000% false.

Pikaboo, Jaz, Trillebartom three people who immediately come to mind as people who do 2k-2.4k carries pretty regularly. Pikaboo's always playing with viewers and carrying them to 2k and beyond for free. Zenlyn and Spacerat frequently do as well, albeit marginally harder to 'carry' as a healer. Pikachu's done it a lot as well.

2k in SL is like 1.4-1.6k pre-Legion. Inflation has ruined the ladder.

well if he can get them at more than 2100 then it means he plays with decent players who have the skill to reach 2k with time and efforts, difference playing with a rank1 is that they go 10x faster that's it. if you don't have the level you CANNOT break some particular ratings even if you play with the best players in the world.

[Loveliest]

The issue here isn't carries but instead both MMR as well as the fact that you and your partner wasn't able to outplay the supposedly bad paladin.

That IS the point. What, you think 1600 rating is amazing? It's not, they should be paired with their own rating. At 1600, they're just pve-ing against ppl, its not hard to counter if you're the kind of guy who has 2400 rating. Even with a carry, you could just walk him through a script / sequence, which ppl at low rating don't do.

OT, most ppl buy carries because you get the best gear with pvp. No rng, no fuss, highest ilvl, your best stats. Unless pvp gear can be made to be used just in pvp, this will continue being so.

[Toybox]

carries aren't a problem if you can play above 1800... even a rank1 player can barely get a normal carry above 2k/2.1k...

Playing 2s at 1900 with a guildy for fun (nothing too serious, as we already have BiS gear from RBGs). Every other game at least has a glad/multi-glad on the other team.

[Cæli]

Playing 2s at 1900 with a guildy for fun (nothing too serious, as we already have BiS gear from RBGs). Every other game at least has a glad/multi-glad on the other team.

don't be intimidated by a name or a title, if you play seriously and try to push you will win in most cases, unless the person playing with the glad has a higher level than you. in which case it's normal to lose. if you keep losing at that rating because of that, then it means you've hit the highest rating you can reach with your team, and you need to play a lot in order to improve and pretend to reach a higher rating.
arenas are hard, and it requires thousands of hours of practice to start having good results.

[Toybox]

don't be intimidated by a name or a title, if you play seriously and try to push you will win in most cases, unless the person playing with the glad has a higher level than you. in which case it's normal to lose. if you keep losing at that rating because of that, then it means you've hit the highest rating you can reach with your team, and you need to play a lot in order to improve and pretend to reach a higher rating.

True. We played for the first time in a few weeks yesterday & actually gained rating which was a pleasant surprise There was one with a multi-glad Warrior boosting a RSham & the Sham DC'd on rocket jump. Normally I'd let them recover but no rights for boosters

[Baconeggcheese]

Been saying they should implement an ilvl cap for what is obtainable for a given bracket (excluding legendaries). So if they que into a 1550 game the ilvl is capped at 207 for every piece except legendaries etc etc.

Solves pretty much all the issues outside of the skill difference, but that I'm fine with. If a dude is potentially hard carrying a dude vs 2 other people and the 2 other people lose with the gear being equal I really don't have a problem with it. Its when they come in with 226 gear into a sub 1800 game and the gear gap is already substantial before the skill gap even comes into play.

[Rucati]

As someone who just did 2 boosts last week I have to say... Yeah it's probably a problem, but there isn't a solution.

My 227 ilvl HPal can very easily carry most games up to 1800 as long as my teammate has some kind of pulse. Hell I outdamaged the WW Monk I was playing with a couple of times.

But at the same time there's not really a good fix. A friend of mine just leveled an Enhance shaman, he's 190 ilvl and wanted 1600 so I got him there and he'll hit 1800 this week. He didn't pay me, we've been friends since BC and I was just helping him out and we were having fun, so should that not be allowed? Just because I'm 2400+ in 3v3 I can't do low rated 2s with friends? That's pretty obviously ridiculous. And that's the problem, there's really not a particularly good fix. Well I mean, there is, the fix is that gear is equalized in arena, but Blizzard won't do that and it wouldn't even solve the problem.

You didn't lose because the Priest had better gear, you lost because the Priest was a better player. If gear was all that mattered I could never carry a 190 ilvl Shaman to 1600 when everyone we're fighting is 215+. But he's a good player, so even though his gear was bad we could still win games. If anything forcing people in arenas to have equal gear would just make it worse because that would mean skill is the only determining factor and so you'd lose 100% of the time to boosters. At least this way you can maybe outgear the person they're boosting enough to still have a chance at winning.

I think a far bigger problem is RBGs allowing you to level your gear. There's an insane number of arena players stuck around 1600 but they're full 226 because they got 2100 in RBGs since it requires literally no effort/skill to do so. That makes it super unfair for players who don't enjoy RBGs since they're going to be like 215 ilvl against 226 ilvl players, and with no boosters in the game everyone is equally skilled which means the 226 team gets a free win simply because they got their gear from RBGs.

[Glarolas]

Back in Cata I was able to get 2200 in 3s and 2k in 2s, I sucked pretty bad. Now I am exponentially better and I play RET which is supposed to be easy as fuck.. I cant get higher than 1600 in 3s or 2s this season. I interupt, bind all my support abilities etc.. I guess I just dont have real life friends and dont bother voice with pugs.

[Varx]

As soemone who's made a ton of gold carrying people in 2s, get gud. You ain't taking away my business.

[LedZeppelin]

its simple. they do 3s for the title and mount and carry in 2s for gold. you drown in lfg because you have no consistent team mates, dont use voice so you over lap cc and just attack random targets and just expect to win

[msdos]

Finding arena partners has never worked for me, so without solo queue I can't even do arena. I would have to get carried if I even wanted to participate.

Without solo queue, which every other moba and PVP game has, you aren't doing jack with this game. At this point it's probably done on purpose to keep people buying tokens.

[LedZeppelin]

As someone who just did 2 boosts last week I have to say... Yeah it's probably a problem, but there isn't a solution.

My 227 ilvl HPal can very easily carry most games up to 1800 as long as my teammate has some kind of pulse. Hell I outdamaged the WW Monk I was playing with a couple of times.

But at the same time there's not really a good fix. A friend of mine just leveled an Enhance shaman, he's 190 ilvl and wanted 1600 so I got him there and he'll hit 1800 this week. He didn't pay me, we've been friends since BC and I was just helping him out and we were having fun, so should that not be allowed? Just because I'm 2400+ in 3v3 I can't do low rated 2s with friends? That's pretty obviously ridiculous. And that's the problem, there's really not a particularly good fix. Well I mean, there is, the fix is that gear is equalized in arena, but Blizzard won't do that and it wouldn't even solve the problem.

You didn't lose because the Priest had better gear, you lost because the Priest was a better player. If gear was all that mattered I could never carry a 190 ilvl Shaman to 1600 when everyone we're fighting is 215+. But he's a good player, so even though his gear was bad we could still win games. If anything forcing people in arenas to have equal gear would just make it worse because that would mean skill is the only determining factor and so you'd lose 100% of the time to boosters. At least this way you can maybe outgear the person they're boosting enough to still have a chance at winning.

I think a far bigger problem is RBGs allowing you to level your gear. There's an insane number of arena players stuck around 1600 but they're full 226 because they got 2100 in RBGs since it requires literally no effort/skill to do so. That makes it super unfair for players who don't enjoy RBGs since they're going to be like 215 ilvl against 226 ilvl players, and with no boosters in the game everyone is equally skilled which means the 226 team gets a free win simply because they got their gear from RBGs.

agree on all points except last. if 226 is hard stuck at 1600 its clear that the game has enough skill expression that gearing strictly doesnt win you games. How much rating does the better gear get you? Hard to say but I doubt its really gate keeping non rbg players

- - - Updated - - -

Finding arena partners has never worked for me, so without solo queue I can't even do arena. I would have to get carried if I even wanted to participate.

Without solo queue, which every other moba and PVP game has, you aren't doing jack with this game. At this point it's probably done on purpose to keep people buying tokens.

the problem is you. ive met people i play with from the arena skirmish quests lmao

[msdos]

"The problem is you, lmao"

Why are you laughing at me because I can't make friends on a video game? Yeah, I know the problem is me, which is why I said I can't participate without carries.

I really don't care what you did in arena skirmish. I just wanted to participate in arena without all these barriers and being laughed at for having no friends.

[Wavebossa]

carries aren't a problem if you can play above 1800... even a rank1 player can barely get a normal carry above 2k/2.1k...
"carries" aren't a problem, the problem is often with the player complaining about facing a "carry", maybe because he doesn't have enough time to get better
arenas are very time consuming, far more than mythic raiding, you're basically doing that all your life, and players who have fun in arena just do that

Nagura was carried to 2.4k in under 2 hours for her weapon.

And she is self-admittedly shit at pvp


I'm not saying that carries are a huge problem, i'm just syaing that pro players can absolutely carry people. Trill carried an entire guild to 233 weps.

[Rucati]

agree on all points except last. if 226 is hard stuck at 1600 its clear that the game has enough skill expression that gearing strictly doesnt win you games. How much rating does the better gear get you? Hard to say but I doubt its really gate keeping non rbg players

I would say at 1800+ it matters less, the difference between 220 and 226 isn't that big compared to 213 to 226. But if you're 1600, or even if you're like 1550 trying to get 1600, playing people in full 226 gear makes things significantly harder. I mean if you're trying to push 1600 you're gonna be like 209 ilvl (full 207 + legendary), that's like 16 full item levels below your opponents if they're 2100 in RBGs.

I honestly think gear can make up for a pretty big difference. I know I've lost games on alts to players who are just absolutely terrible. Of course gear can't do everything, but you're allowed to make a lot more mistakes if you're overgeared. I'd say if someone is a 1400 player and you gave them full 226 they'd get 1600, even if they don't change anything about their play. But of course you can hit 1800 at 200 ilvl despite that if you consistently outplay your opponents.