[TV] WandaVision

[Daws001]

I do like how problematic Wanda is. She joined HYDRA, blew up a building, and took a town hostage. But she's an Avenger! They did a good job with Agatha and making her more intricate then just a power hungry antagonist. Wanda is a kid with a gun and she's totally going to do more damage with it. Maybe take that gun away.

Anywho, good finale. I was hoping for more but gotta save the juicy stuff for the movie. I wonder if there will be more Wanda breadcrumbs before Dr. Strange 2.

[The Cheat]

Not necessarily. It could just as easily be temptation/manipulation from whichever dark forces surround/control the book or the magic it taps into.

Yeah based on what the Darkhold actually *is* I think this is a possibility too. I don't think they will paint her as full-on villain but she is definitely trending chaotic neutral to use a D&D context. That's part of why I think it leads to Strange perfectly, since he seems more interested in keeping the magical order.

[rhorle]

I'm just annoyed that they didn't reveal the one mystery we all wanted to know... who the fucking fuck was Jimmy Woo after in that town

They could have. The scene with "Ralph" seems a little weird. And I would think if that was your last name your entire life you wouldn't make a boner joke. With all the hints to x-men it would be a nice subtle introduction even if directors have implied it was a casting just for misdirection.

[Nerraw]

They could have. The scene with "Ralph" seems a little weird. And I would think if that was your last name your entire life you wouldn't make a boner joke. With all the hints to x-men it would be a nice subtle introduction even if directors have implied it was a casting just for misdirection.

Yeah, I doubt we've seen the last of that character.

[Ayirasi]

Somewhat disappointed. Everyone just... bounces. And that's kind of it. Could've used a third stinger with Vision.

I still enjoyed the series overall. Maybe 8/10? 8.5?

Wanda's outfit looks really good. Manages to avoid looking cheesy. Love the big hair.

[ProphetFlume]

Ralph Bohner

[eschatological]

I wonder if WandaVision will get the same hate TLJ did for subverting expectations.

Stunt casting of a Fox Universe X-Man to be a random nobody masquerading as his MCU equivalent shortly after acquiring the rights to X-Men from Fox?

Setting up Dottie/Ralph (who we find out is really Pietro)/Strange/Jimmy Woo's CI/potentially X-Men, all for them to be nothing?

Talking about Monica's aerospace engineer friend, making people speculate about a Fantastic Four tie-in, and it ending up being....absolutely nothing?

Suggesting there's a bigger, deeper bad behind Agatha, and at most her giving a vague warning about it in the finale, at best? No cameo, no name drop, nothing?

Implying that Dr. Strange, who lives within 100 miles did nothing about this whole fiasco, after strongly suggesting he should be involved throughout the series and even NAME-DROPPING his title in the finale?

Setting up a cold, emotionless robot Vision, and then having him fuck off to god knows where the minute Hex-Vision defeats him in a battle of the mind?

I would mention the Skrull here but I care so little about them I couldn't be bothered.

Don't get me wrong, I liked TLJ *and* WandaVision. They're both great character studies. But WandaVision totally destroyed any fan theories developed during the show, much like TLJ subverted expectations of its various characters/plotlines from previous movies. And that'll upset people who invest themselves in that kind of thing. If you're happy with a great character study of an intriguing character from Marvel, the show is great - but if you're looking for how it advances the MCU, outside of Wanda discovering the Darkhold and her true superhero identity (which viewers already knew before the show ever aired), all that happened is a town was tortured for a couple weeks. With no consequences.

[Skulltaker]

I wonder if WandaVision will get the same hate TLJ did for subverting expectations.

Stunt casting of a Fox Universe X-Man to be a random nobody masquerading as his MCU equivalent shortly after acquiring the rights to X-Men from Fox?

Setting up Dottie/Ralph (who we find out is really Pietro)/Strange/Jimmy Woo's CI/potentially X-Men, all for them to be nothing?

Talking about Monica's aerospace engineer friend, making people speculate about a Fantastic Four tie-in, and it ending up being....absolutely nothing?

Suggesting there's a bigger, deeper bad behind Agatha, and at most her giving a vague warning about it in the finale, at best? No cameo, no name drop, nothing?

Implying that Dr. Strange, who lives within 100 miles did nothing about this whole fiasco, after strongly suggesting he should be involved throughout the series and even NAME-DROPPING his title in the finale?

Setting up a cold, emotionless robot Vision, and then having him fuck off to god knows where the minute Hex-Vision defeats him in a battle of the mind?

I would mention the Skrull here but I care so little about them I couldn't be bothered.

Don't get me wrong, I liked TLJ *and* WandaVision. They're both great character studies. But WandaVision totally destroyed any fan theories developed during the show, much like TLJ subverted expectations of its various characters/plotlines from previous movies. And that'll upset people who invest themselves in that kind of thing. If you're happy with a great character study of an intriguing character from Marvel, the show is great - but if you're looking for how it advances the MCU, outside of Wanda discovering the Darkhold and her true superhero identity (which viewers already knew before the show ever aired), all that happened is a town was tortured for a couple weeks. With no consequences.

You forget that WV isn't the follow-up. And opposed to TLJ, WV has a decent story line with interesting characters who are relatable. It also touches on a subject that is very very real for many viewers right now, dealing with grief and isolation. TLJ tears down many things established in another movie, not those it established by itself. If this had been season 2, and season 1 had teased potential X-men, Fan4stick, whatever tie ins, with Pietro appearing in the last scene of the series 1 finale, yeah, I think people would have been pissed. But here, they still recieved quality entertainment which still fits the general tone of its franchise, which treated established characters with respect, furthered the story of the overall universe by introducing another majorly strong hero, added a potential conundrum in the future (her reading the Darkhold), and so on. WV does subverting expectaions right, because you still get something to take away, and because it didn't subvert anything major. We got Wanda's story, and Visions, to a lesser degree, with a potential continuation to his story later. TLJ simply tore things down, and left you with nothing.

[rhorle]

I would mention the Skrull here but I care so little about them I couldn't be bothered.

Then why make a big deal about the rest of the stuff? That is the problem when people build up their own theories about stuff. Also it is amusing you don't care about them when it ties into the aerospace engineer you brought up. Why shouldn't the show destroy fan theories? They are fan theories for a reason. We also don't know any of the consequences yet either. You are complaing that the show didn't do anything but set up future events. What is wrong with that?

Dottie wasn't set up in any real fashion. Devil in the details was a common phrase around the time period of the show and still is used by some now. Ralph still hasn't been fully explained and could be x-men related through being the FBI witness. Monica's aerospace engineer friend doesn't need to show up on screen if they provide equipment when she asks. We also have the skrull connection at the end that could very well tie into that "Friend".

Dr Strange could be busy elsewhere. Sword could have kept it quiet. The FBI didn't even really know until Jimmy made a call and remember that the spell Wanda used caused a memory issue for people nearby or related to people on the inside. That little issue pops up for any MCU movie or show. Why didn't all the good guys assemble to easily defeat a big bad?

Remember too that this is the begining of Phase 4. All the new stuff needs to be set up someplace and Wanda Vision is one of the first places we see that happening. We don't know what Black Widow would have referenced since the Pandemic delayed that.

[blankfaced]

I'm satisfied with that ending. As long as they didn't paint her as possessed by some cosmic being I was probably going to be fine with the ending.

Only question. Is the method of credits, after credits scene, more credits, yet another after credits scene going to be used going forward? Because i'm not all too keen on that. Just put the ending at the end and then show the credits.

I guess also, is Ralph entirely a throw away? I mean someone says he could be the person in WitSec. The name is ridiculous even for a TV show (yes i know there are people IRL with that last name, doesn't make it any less hilarious and ridiculous.) Then again, he looked like he was an actor in the hex with the headshot. Were his powers tied to the hex, the necklace or were they his?

Also, can't wait to see Agatha again. She's by far my favorite Marvel character so far.

[Skulltaker]

Then why make a big deal about the rest of the stuff? That is the problem when people build up their own theories about stuff. Also it is amusing you don't care about them when it ties into the aerospace engineer you brought up. Why shouldn't the show destroy fan theories? They are fan theories for a reason. We also don't know any of the consequences yet either. You are complaing that the show didn't do anything but set up future events. What is wrong with that?

Dottie wasn't set up in any real fashion. Devil in the details was a common phrase around the time period of the show and still is used by some now. Ralph still hasn't been fully explained and could be x-men related through being the FBI witness. Monica's aerospace engineer friend doesn't need to show up on screen if they provide equipment when she asks. We also have the skrull connection at the end that could very well tie into that "Friend".

Dr Strange could be busy elsewhere. Sword could have kept it quiet. The FBI didn't even really know until Jimmy made a call and remember that the spell Wanda used caused a memory issue for people nearby or related to people on the inside. That little issue pops up for any MCU movie or show. Why didn't all the good guys assemble to easily defeat a big bad?

The show didn't destroy any fan theories. You're acting as if they read what people theorized and then altered the episodes accordingly. The entire series has been finished for weeks, probably months. People had theories, they didn't pan out. At best you can accuse them of using red herrings to draw peoples attention away, but that's something franchises have been doing for a long time. I personally don't mind that, but since they didn't do it on anything important it's well possible for me to focus on the good things the show offered. Keeping and evolving the established characters, for example, creating new ones, etc.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm satisfied with that ending. As long as they didn't paint her as possessed by some cosmic being I was probably going to be fine with the ending.

Only question. Is the method of credits, after credits scene, more credits, yet another after credits scene going to be used going forward? Because i'm not all too keen on that. Just put the ending at the end and then show the credits.

The people in the credits are the ones who made it all possible. You're watching their work which they spent months of their lives on, so I think you can be asked to watch 4 mins of names that roll by to fast to read and listen to the OST. Get yourself a coffee. Or, you know, since you're streaming it on your PC/TV, simply fast forward.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I do like how problematic Wanda is. She joined HYDRA, blew up a building, and took a town hostage.

It's not really fair to say she "blew up a building"... She was trying to get the explosion away from people. Crossbones was going to explode anyway...and people would have died either way.

The other two are problematic...but circumstances are somewhat mitigating. It was never her intent to hurt anyone in Westview. Not saying that what she did was right...but she was in the middle of a mental break...she wasn't even really truly aware of what she had done for most of the series.

And she's an Avenger cuz she did help save the world a couple times. Compared to that, what's the unintentional torture of a small New Jersey town really worth? :P

[eschatological]

You forget that WV isn't the follow-up. And opposed to TLJ, WV has a decent story line with interesting characters who are relatable. It also touches on a subject that is very very real for many viewers right now, dealing with grief and isolation. TLJ tears down many things established in another movie, not those it established by itself. If this had been season 2, and season 1 had teased potential X-men, Fan4stick, whatever tie ins, with Pietro appearing in the last scene of the series 1 finale, yeah, I think people would have been pissed. But here, they still recieved quality entertainment which still fits the general tone of its franchise, which treated established characters with respect, furthered the story of the overall universe by introducing another majorly strong hero, added a potential conundrum in the future (her reading the Darkhold), and so on. WV does subverting expectaions right, because you still get something to take away, and because it didn't subvert anything major. We got Wanda's story, and Visions, to a lesser degree, with a potential continuation to his story later. TLJ simply tore things down, and left you with nothing.

WandaVision is literally tearing down stuff it set up in earlier episodes. And it feels like it's doing that specifically to thumb their nose at YouTube fan theorists.

I'm not too invested in the MCU because I generally think of it as summer blockbuster popcorn fare, but I was hoping for something somewhat deeper and more interconnected now. Where the struggles are internal as opposed to weird external boogeymen. I guess this is why I always like Batman and Superman better than MCU stuff - because most of their demons were internal. And WandaVision set up a lot of that beautifully. It was a great character study, and study of a person grieving. But in the end, it's just an MCU film written over 9 episodes. A popcorn flick that shouldn't be looked at too seriously except to say, "Oh, Wanda's story is so sad....but she's gotten over it now, so we're all good now for her future team ups!"

It kinda reminds me of how everyone just kind of forgot about Black Widow in the latter half of Endgame after having their one rage-scene on the docks, and how Iron Man was just a mural in Spider-Man: Far From Home, that Peter occasionally mentioned as being a sad memory, but not affecting him substantively in any way, either in power or motivation or character.

[rhorle]

WandaVision is literally tearing down stuff it set up in earlier episodes. And it feels like it's doing that specifically to thumb their nose at YouTube fan theorists."

It literally did not though. People dissected every little bit because they expected a bunch of hidden meanings and messages. That isn't showing the show destroyed by simply telling the same story it would have before all of those YouTube theories existed. For someone who once insulted every one here as nerds discussing you sure seem to be awfully upset other nerds were wrong.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

WandaVision is literally tearing down stuff it set up in earlier episodes. And it feels like it's doing that specifically to thumb their nose at YouTube fan theorists.

I'm not too invested in the MCU because I generally think of it as summer blockbuster popcorn fare, but I was hoping for something somewhat deeper and more interconnected now. Where the struggles are internal as opposed to weird external boogeymen. I guess this is why I always like Batman and Superman better than MCU stuff - because most of their demons were internal. And WandaVision set up a lot of that beautifully. It was a great character study, and study of a person grieving. But in the end, it's just an MCU film written over 9 episodes. A popcorn flick that shouldn't be looked at too seriously except to say, "Oh, Wanda's story is so sad....but she's gotten over it now, so we're all good now for her future team ups!"

It kinda reminds me of how everyone just kind of forgot about Black Widow in the latter half of Endgame after having their one rage-scene on the docks, and how Iron Man was just a mural in Spider-Man: Far From Home, that Peter occasionally mentioned as being a sad memory, but not affecting him substantively in any way, either in power or motivation or character.

I don't think you are giving Marvel enough credit, all of this is to show how tragic Wanda's life has been. Her parents killed by a Stark created bomb which led her to join Hydra since they oppose Stark so why not. She loses her brother, and then loses Vision. She has to deal with ALL of that grief and other events distract her. Grief and accepting whats happening is a very real thing. Sure it has all this comic booky stuff but its pretty clear Wanda's emotional problems are the relatable hook that are in Wandavision. Don't get me started on BvS I have my own issues with the film and I feel like(This post may be out of date depending what the MCU does with Wanda) characters are handled better then what people wanted.

I wouldn't necessarily call everything's fine now, there are lingering problems(Wanda in this new state with her powers, her kids...being outthere somewhere supposedly). Who knows how Sword is gonna see her and Westview in general, that news will get around.

[Jotaux]

The only issue I had was the casting of Evan Peters. That was just stunt casting and cheapens the story.

TLJ is still the worst movie ever made.

[eschatological]

It literally did not though. People dissected every little bit because they expected a bunch of hidden meanings and messages. That isn't showing the show destroyed by simply telling the same story it would have before all of those YouTube theories existed. For someone who once insulted every one here as nerds discussing you sure seem to be awfully upset other nerds were wrong.

I definitely find arguments about the semantics of "ripping apart" vs. "crumbling" pedantic, you sure got me. In the end, what did that end up meaning?

I'm curious - you don't view casting Evan Peters as a deliberate troll? Especially since he's "pretending" to be Quicksilver, the character he played in Fox? Like, I can handwave that Debra Jo Rupp, a pretty well known actor, was in episode 1 and then not seen til the end, and being only a minor player being a thing. But Evan Peters showing up as Wanda's brother, Quicksilver, Feige saying, through Darcy, "They re-cast Pietro?" etc....you don't see that as fairly mean-spirited?

I mean, that's not a hidden message. That's called setting up an expectation and then pulling the rug out from under you.

- - - Updated - - -

I wouldn't necessarily call everything's fine now, there are lingering problems(Wanda in this new state with her powers, her kids...being outthere somewhere supposedly). Who knows how Sword is gonna see her and Westview in general, that news will get around.

Are her kids "out there" though? The clip we hear in the end credits is just an echo of things they've already said. From literally earlier in the episode, as if it was a memory.

And your SWORD theory is meh, at best. The likely next Director of SWORD is Monica. And she's likely on her way to see Nick Fury. And both are gonna view Wanda favorably, and probably write this whole thing off.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

And your SWORD theory is meh, at best. The likely next Director of SWORD is Monica. And she's likely on her way to see Nick Fury. And both are gonna view Wanda favorably, and probably write this whole thing of

Yeah, I don't buy it. Sword may not be hostile to Wanda but they may still delve into some of the research they are already doing. Maybe not questionable as rebuilding vision but still stuff I wouldn't trust.

[rhorle]

Maybe I am remembering wrong but wasn't the Days of future past Quicksilver shown to live in Maryland? The baseball player on the attic wall in Wandavision was of a Orioles player. Sure a New Jersey person can like whatever baseball team they want but it could be something. And as I said previously the scene just feels like "Witness protection" to me.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, that's not a hidden message. That's called setting up an expectation and then pulling the rug out from under you.

There were more hidden messages though like the clock positions that someone decoded as X-men. Casting him openly like that? Sure a misdirect. But there are a lot of little things that could point to it actually being an X-men. But you just seem convinced to hate something about the show rather then discussing potentials. In the end anything we discuss here won't mean much at all. So it is weird you dismiss only the things you don't like while doing exactly what you call others out for doing right?

[Ihavewaffles]

Tannhauser Gate theatre, uhm, that name is the space station that was destroyed by the replicants before the the start of the Blade Runner movie..

So, whatever happened to Señor Scratchy?

how did they just put together a 2nd Vision out of the blue?...that took some doing last time..