[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[deenman]

No, it's never been hinted, literally no one before S8 thought Arya was going to destroy all White Walkers because it wasn't hinted anywhere.

well,maybe after you actualy watch the series you can see them all LOL

[Varodoc]

well,maybe after you actualy watch the series you can see them all LOL

You're not funny, I take this as your concession.

[deenman]

You're not funny, I take this as your concession.

i mentioned all the hints a few posts before,the fact is that this is what george has planed,like it or not and he made sure to foreshadow it plenty

[Varodoc]

i mentioned all the hints a few posts before,the fact is that this is what george has planed,like it or not and he made sure to foreshadow it plenty

Buddy the Night King doesn't even exist in the novels, George didn't plan for shit. The Night King is exclusively a DnD's creation.

besides the plethora of season 8 and 7 hints witch i guess people can dismiss because thats when they decided on it,we also have these much older ones

List them.

what the hound saw in the fire,its what led him to save her and go to winterfell himself

Doesn't foreshadow her killing the Night King himself.

the lord of light kept beric alive so he could save arya,then he dies for good

Doesn't foreshadow her killing the Night King himself.

catpaw dagger

Doesn't foreshadow her killing the Night King himself.

plenty of foeshadowing about her combat like in s1 when she said ''i can be quick'',or how she sneaks behind the boys in s1 and shoots the arrow when bran is shown unable to perform as a warrior

Doesn't foreshadow her killing the Night King himself, ironically she didn't even kill the Night King because she was sneaky, since the Night King easily noticed her (as she was screaming out of her lungs for some reason), and didn't snap her neck only because of plot.

all along she has been trained and preparing for something,the hound even specificaly mentioned to go for the heart,also everything and everyone has somehow protected her from the start

Doesn't foreshadow her killing the Night King himself.

also jon killing nk would really have been silly,hes no amazing fighter,he was good among the watch made out of random cutthroats,and even among them some were able to kick his ass,jon doesnt even make it in a top 15 list of got warriors

Arya isn't even a warrior so...

Nothing you listed foreshadows Arya killing the Night King. All of these hints could have come true even if Arya simply saved Jon's life (if he was destined to kill Night King) or killed a random White Walker guard. I want evidence that she was destined to kill the Night King specifically.

[deenman]

Buddy the Night King doesn't even exist in the novels, George didn't plan for shit. The Night King is exclusively a DnD's creation.


List them.



Doesn't foreshadow her killing the Night King himself.


Doesn't foreshadow her killing the Night King himself.


Doesn't foreshadow her killing the Night King himself.



Doesn't foreshadow her killing the Night King himself, ironically she didn't even kill the Night King because she was sneaky, since the Night King easily noticed her (as she was screaming out of her lungs for some reason), and didn't snap her neck only because of plot.


Doesn't foreshadow her killing the Night King himself.



Arya isn't even a warrior so...

Nothing you listed foreshadows Arya killing the Night King. All of these hints could have come true even if Arya simply saved Jon's life (if he was destined to kill Night King) or killed a random White Walker guard. I want evidence that she was destined to kill the Night King specifically.

the NK will exist in the books for sure,but the books are wasting a bunch of time on pointless side characters that have been going nowhere,this happens in some adaptations,one show i saw had 2 perspectives going in the same time,wile the original material had them in order

arya isnt a warrior silly,shes a rogue :P

ofc a stealth attack was the only way to get NK,no1 was beating him in a brawl,not even if arthur dayne himself was resurected to fight him lol

[Varodoc]

the NK will exist in the books for sure,but the books are wasting a bunch of time on pointless side characters that have been going nowhere,this happens in some adaptations,one show i saw had 2 perspectives going in the same time,wile the original material had them in order

arya isnt a warrior silly,shes a rogue :P

ofc a stealth attack was the only way to get NK,no1 was beating him in a brawl,not even if arthur dayne himself was resurected to fight him lol

The Night King won't exist in the books, GRRM specifically said once that he dislikes Good vs. Evil stories against a generic Dark Lord, the Night King is a generic Dark Lord who wants to destroy the world because he's evil. He was created by DnD for the sole purpose of giving the White Walker a face/iconic figure, since a TV show, as opposed to a book, is a medium that needs an iconic/marketable main antagonist. Like you can't market the entire White Walker race, but you can indeed market a singular elite leader.

arya isnt a warrior silly,shes a rogue :P

ofc a stealth attack was the only way to get NK,no1 was beating him in a brawl,not even if arthur dayne himself was resurected to fight him lol

Except that Arya's attack wasn't even a sneak attack lol, how can you call it a sneak attack when she was screaming out of her lungs? The Night King literally turned around and stopped her in her tracks. He then didn't proceed to just snap her neck because Plot.

[deenman]

The Night King won't exist in the books, GRRM specifically said once that he dislikes Good vs. Evil stories against a generic Dark Lord, the Night King is a generic Dark Lord who wants to destroy the world because he's evil. He was created by DnD for the sole purpose of giving the White Walker a face/iconic figure, since a TV show, as opposed to a book, is a medium that needs an iconic/marketable main antagonist. Like you can't market the entire White Walker race, but you can indeed market a singular elite leader.


Except that Arya's attack wasn't even a sneak attack lol, how can you call it a sneak attack when she was screaming out of her lungs? The Night King literally turned around and stopped her in her tracks. He then didn't proceed to just snap her neck because Plot.

well i fully expect the books NK to have an actual backstory and motive,the show did him majorly dirty

im not trying to argue that the show did things good,they messed everything up,i just dont see how arya killing NK was a bad choice,no1 would have been able to fight him 1 on 1

[Xilurm]

The Night King won't exist in the books, GRRM specifically said once that he dislikes Good vs. Evil stories against a generic Dark Lord, the Night King is a generic Dark Lord who wants to destroy the world because he's evil. He was created by DnD for the sole purpose of giving the White Walker a face/iconic figure, since a TV show, as opposed to a book, is a medium that needs an iconic/marketable main antagonist. Like you can't market the entire White Walker race, but you can indeed market a singular elite leader.


Except that Arya's attack wasn't even a sneak attack lol, how can you call it a sneak attack when she was screaming out of her lungs? The Night King literally turned around and stopped her in her tracks. He then didn't proceed to just snap her neck because Plot.

What about the Night's King. (spelled differently) And his Queen. Aren't they figures in the books that are not even mentioned in the show?

[deenman]

What about the Night's King. (spelled differently) And his Queen. Aren't they figures in the books that are not even mentioned in the show?

thats a different character,and it was mentioned in the show

[Adamas102]

well ofc the actors wouldnt know

and its likely that george only told beni and weiss the end points right when s8 was in production as they decided to wrap it up fast,he wouldnt tell them until he had to

they followed his script in the early seasons with some changes wile not knowing what he ultimately had planned

Highly unlikely, especially given that George thought the show SHOULD have continued for more seasons. By the end, he was barely a consultant. The show was entirely in the hands of D&D.

There's also the fact that GRRM hasn't written Arya to be that kind of character. The Faceless Men aren't "jump at your face with a knife" assassins. Arya has no connection to the Night King story line. The dagger was simply meant to be the clue that pointed to Joffrey's involvement in the assassination attempt on Bran. Having it appear several books later and become the most important weapon in the series isn't GRRM's style.

The entire scene in the show is just a hamfisted series of coincidences. Going from carefully stealthing through the library in order to avoid a handful of wights to just turning into wind to bypass a horde of white walkers, catapulting into the air with the dagger she was given just the day before, getting LUCKY enough to be CAUGHT since her original attack would have been ineffective (Benioff specified that he needed to be stabbed where the dragonglass was pushed into his chest, something Arya clearly wouldn't know), doing the knife trick that she was shown doing once just days before to stab him in the one place that could kill him. That is just horrible writing cobbled together by hacks that wanted a payoff with no build up because that makes for a SURPRISE!

[deenman]

Highly unlikely, especially given that George thought the show SHOULD have continued for more seasons. By the end, he was barely a consultant. The show was entirely in the hands of D&D.

There's also the fact that GRRM hasn't written Arya to be that kind of character. The Faceless Men aren't "jump at your face with a knife" assassins. Arya has no connection to the Night King story line. The dagger was simply meant to be the clue that pointed to Joffrey's involvement in the assassination attempt on Bran. Having it appear several books later and become the most important weapon in the series isn't GRRM's style.

The entire scene in the show is just a hamfisted series of coincidences. Going from carefully stealthy through the library in order to avoid a handful of wights to just turning into wind to bypass a horde of white walkers, catapulting into the air with the dagger she was given just the day before, getting LUCKY enough to be CAUGHT since her original attack would have been ineffective (Benioff specified that he needed to be stabbed where the dragonglass was pushed into his chest, something Arya clearly didn't know), doing the knife trick that she was shown doing once just days before to stab him in the one place that could kill him. That is just horrible writing cobbled together by hacks that wanted a payoff with no build up.

I never said the show did things well,all im claiming is that arya killing NK isnt among the worst things s8 did,it was foreshadowed,and it fits for him to be defeated from a more unexpected angle than the big ol hero jon,who couldnt even stand a chance against NK,or any warrior in the show

[Xilurm]

thats a different character,and it was mentioned in the show

I don't remember that. Are you talking about the dude that was turned by the Children? That's the same Night King we see later.

[Varodoc]

What about the Night's King. (spelled differently) And his Queen. Aren't they figures in the books that are not even mentioned in the show?

Different person. The Night's King is just a legendary figure, he's not the Night King i.e. the leader of the White Walkers that appears in the show.

GRRM already said that he doesn't like Dark Lord-type of characters, so he'd never introduce the Night King in his books. The Night King had potential but that potential was wasted, and it's obvious that in the end he was just a bland generic evil monster.

The Showrunners tried to say in some interviews that he was actually a victim/morally grey, but that was not conveyed at all in the actual story.

[Okacz]

The Night King won't exist in the books, GRRM specifically said once that he dislikes Good vs. Evil stories against a generic Dark Lord, the Night King is a generic Dark Lord who wants to destroy the world because he's evil. He was created by DnD for the sole purpose of giving the White Walker a face/iconic figure, since a TV show, as opposed to a book, is a medium that needs an iconic/marketable main antagonist. Like you can't market the entire White Walker race, but you can indeed market a singular elite leader.

It really does mess up the narrative of GRRM tho. In the books the White Walker threat is a very obvious allegory for global warming - not an army that can be defeated by slaughtering a general, but more of an inevitable threat the civilization is too shortsighted to aknowledge. I agree that it would have been difficult to convey that in the show, without giving the White Walkers a Darth Maul face.

Still, turning this threat into just a foreign army that can be shut down by killing its single leader... well, that's just copying plot points from Phantom Menace. Not sure anyone could be happy about that.

[Xilurm]

Different person. The Night's King is just a legendary figure, he's not the Night King i.e. the leader of the White Walkers that appears in the show.

Yeah I know. I was just saying that instead of putting the show version in the books he could do something with those legendary characters. He has to deal with The Others in the books too.

[Adamas102]

I never said the show did things well,all im claiming is that arya killing NK isnt among the worst things s8 did,it was foreshadowed,and it fits for him to be defeated from a more unexpected angle than the big ol hero jon,who couldnt even stand a chance against NK,or any warrior in the show

Except it doesn’t. That’s not the type of story GRRM has written. Again, the books are character driven. Arya’s story is one of a damaged child, loss of innocence, and revenge. She is not going to be the heroic warrior that defeats the supernatural threat that her arc has had no connection to with a suicidal charge.

I also think the idea that she could even sneak up on someone like the NK is nothing but conjecture based on the vague Faceless Men powers from the show. In the books Arya isn’t even doing well at the training, having to worg in order to even stand a chance in the blindness challenge. She won’t be the super assassin that kills all the Frey’s because Lady Stoneheart is already doing that. Assassinating people and making it look like an accident doesn’t translate to stealthing past an army of undead and walking right up to a nearly omnipotent, immortal being.

If all it took to defeat the Night King was a novice assassin that dropped out of training, then there are plenty of other people who should have been able to accomplish that task.

[Varodoc]

well i fully expect the books NK to have an actual backstory and motive,the show did him majorly dirty

im not trying to argue that the show did things good,they messed everything up,i just dont see how arya killing NK was a bad choice,no1 would have been able to fight him 1 on 1

The reason is simple, it's because it sounds stupid.

"8.000-yo old race of Ice Demons exterminated by one 18 yo old girl with a knife."

That sounds stupid, actually it almost sounds hilarious/comical, but last time I checked the White Walkers storyline was never meant to be hilarious/comical.

Like it just makes the Night King look like an idiot, imagine plotting, scheming, building an army for 8.000 years only to get oneshot by a teenager. It's stupid and anticlimactic.

The Night King didn't even have to die, if the showrunners bothered to give him some actual depth/flesh him out the show could have just ended with a new pact between the White Walkers and humans. It was also shown that the White Walkers were capable of making deals with humans, since they made a deal with Craster.

Game of Thrones is a classic example that sometimes the easiest/most obvious route isn't the best one.

[Xilurm]

What's most upsetting to me is how GRRM defended those last two seasons. Of course he'd do that wether he liked them or not because he pretty much got rich from the show and he wouldn't say otherwise, but it still sucks.

[Adamas102]

The reason is simple, it's because it sounds stupid.

"8.000-yo old race of Ice Demons exterminated by one 18 yo old girl with a knife.”

If the idea is that this story beat will be matched in the books, Arya will only be about 11-13 years old in the last two books...

I can see her being tenacious enough to carry out some of her revenge plots, but defeating the supernatural threat that her arc has had no connection to isn’t where her character is going.

[Kathranis]

the NK will exist in the books for sure

Almost certainly not. They created the Night King for the show based on a historical character in the books called the Night's King, but the similarities pretty much end with the name.

All signs point to Euron Greyjoy being the character that will fulfill roughly that role in the books.