Israel and Palestine Conflict Heats Up

[Themius]

Here are my 2 cents. I don't like Hamas or the current right-wing government of Israel. I do think Israel has a right to exist and so does Palestine. I do not agree with what Israel has done. They really crossed a line. I think a lot of US right wing who support Israel use it as a way to attack Arabs. I think there is an antisemitic issue on the left; that hides as antizionism as a smokescreen. I don't think criticizing Israel is antisemitic. I repeat I do not suppose what Israels' current government or its current actions. I do think as John Oliver puts it kindly the US needs to tell Israel to knock it off.

You have israel to thank for hamas... Israel was more scared of a popular left secularist party and propped up the conservative religious fundamentalist... sounds oh so familiar doesn’t it? And what anti Semitic problem on the left?

[downnola]

Let it be known that Vegas82 basically said that Israeli Arabs do not really own their cars, houses and anything else. Truly lol.

Since you insist on droning on about this point like you hit a home run, can you tell us if Israeli Arabs can buy property anywhere in Israel? Can they make claims on land lost during previous wars within Israel's borders? Can they buy property in settlements in the West Bank? If not, why can they not freely buy government property, make claims on lost land, or live in settlements?

[Specialka]

They don’t in the eyes of Israel’s courts. Remember how that’s what started all this?

But the issues were about claims in East Jerusalem, no ? Does not mean that Israel's courts could judge about stuff there (and yet they do), but most if not all people in East Jerusalem are not Israeli Arabs but Palestinians.

[Easo]

But the issues were about claims in East Jerusalem, no ? Does not mean that Israel's courts could judge about stuff there (and yet they do), but most if not all people in East Jerusalem are not Israeli Arabs but Palestinians.

He ignores this. The original poster clearly said in Israel. One assumes that in this thread it does not mean disputed territories - only Israel proper.

Since you insist on droning on about this point like you hit a home run, can you tell us if Israeli Arabs can buy property anywhere in Israel? Can they make claims on land lost during previous wars within Israel's borders? Can they buy property in settlements in the West Bank? If not, why can they not freely buy government property, make claims on lost land, or live in settlements?

Umm, yes. We are talking about ISRAEL. READ. FFS. READ. What is with you people and mixing up West Bank/Gaza/East Jersusalem with the Israel itself?
Yes, they fucking can buy and own anything in Israel. I do not know about settlements, I assume that they simply do not move there. Maybe Gaidax knows.

They don’t in the eyes of Israel’s courts. Remember how that’s what started all this?

West. Fucking. Bank. Not Israel. West Bank. Everything else is your imagination, because Arabs clearly own stuff in Israel.

[downnola]

Umm, yes. We are talking about ISRAEL. READ. FFS. READ. What is with you people and mixing up West Bank/Gaza/East Jersusalem with the Israel itself?

I'm not mixing them up. I very clearly specified what I was asking about with statements like "within Israel", "in Israel", and "in the West Bank."

Yes, they fucking can buy and own anything in Israel. I do not know about settlements, I assume that they simply do not move there. Maybe Gaidax knows.

No, they can not. For example, in 2011 the Knesset passed a law that authorized "admission committees" in Jewish majority towns who can reject applicants for residency who don't meet "social suitability" standards. Sounds pretty vague right? Well the reasoning is pretty clear when you talk to the people who passed the law.

One of the law's sponsors, David Rotem of the Yisrael Beiteinu (Israel Our Home) party, told the Knesset in December 2009 that such a law would allow towns to be "established by people who want to live with other Jews." In a radio interview that month, Rotem said the law would codify screening procedures so that Jewish Israelis could "establish a place where everybody is an army veteran, a Yeshiva alumni, or something of that sort."

And another sponsor:

Another sponsor, Yisrael Hasson of the Kadima party, said in December 2010 that "the bill reflects the Knesset's commitment to work to preserve the ability to realize the Zionist dream in practice in the state of Israel" through "population dispersal," which the government had begun "thirty years ago ... [with] a string of small communities in the Galilee and Negev."

"Realization of these goals obliged us as legislators to ensure the existence of a screening mechanism for applicants to these communities," he said.

The sad thing is the Israeli Supreme Court deemed it discrimination to reject residential applicants based on religious or racial reasons and ruled in favor of a couple who was kept from buying land in one of these communities, and this bill was clearly passed as a way around that ruling.

This has been going on for some time in places like Negev and Galilee. Israel has made it difficult for Israeli Palestinian communities to expand and develop and end up expropriating land, demolishing homes, and making way for new Jewish communities. Israeli Palestinians make up 18-20% of Israeli's population and yet own 3% of the land. I wonder why? Let's see what Israeli "Justice" Minister, Ayelet Shaked, had to say on the matter back in 2018 , shall we?

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...ghts-1.5811106

“I think that ‘Judaizing the Galilee’ is not an offensive term. We used to talk like that. In recent years we’ve stopped talking like that. I think it’s legitimate without violating the full rights of the Arab residents of Israel… There are places where the character of the State of Israel as a Jewish state must be maintained and this sometimes comes at the expense of equality.”

character of the State of Israel as a Jewish state must be maintained and this sometimes comes at the expense of equality.”

sometimes comes at the expense of equality.

[Draco-Onis]

Here are my 2 cents. I don't like Hamas or the current right-wing government of Israel. I do think Israel has a right to exist and so does Palestine. I do not agree with what Israel has done. They really crossed a line. I think a lot of US right wing who support Israel use it as a way to attack Arabs. I think there is an antisemitic issue on the left; that hides as antizionism as a smokescreen. I don't think criticizing Israel is antisemitic. I repeat I do not suppose what Israels' current government or its current actions. I do think as John Oliver puts it kindly the US needs to tell Israel to knock it off.

The right wing support of Israel on the right is largely because of evangelicals even Jews do not support Israel with such numbers. The reason for their support is because they believe the establishment of Israel will bring about the end times, it also means the mass slaughter of Jews in order for that to happen. I don't know about you but I wouldn't consider those people "friends of Israel".

[JohnBrown1917]

The right wing support of Israel on the right is largely because of evangelicals even Jews do not support Israel with such numbers. The reason for their support is because they believe the establishment of Israel will bring about the end times, it also means the mass slaughter of Jews in order for that to happen. I don't know about you but I wouldn't consider those people "friends of Israel".

Israel however just sees them as useful idiots they can use to gain more support from the US gov.

[Draco-Onis]

Israel however just sees them as useful idiots they can use to gain more support from the US gov.

To be fair they are useful idiots.

[PC2]

Congratulations to Israel's 13th prime minister, Naftali Bennett, and shame on those folks who were constantly heckling him during his inauguration speech. I feel bad for Likud but if they are the hecklers they need to learn to be more respectful to those they disagree with.

[Fandis]

Congratulations to Israel's 13th prime minister, Naftali Bennett, and shame on those folks who were constantly heckling him during his inauguration speech. I feel bad for Likud but if they are the hecklers they need to learn to be more respectful to those they disagree with.

Interestingly enough, Bennett is the first religious Israeli PM, all the previous ones were secular (still his wife, and the #2 in his party are secular as well). So much for Israel being a theocracy as claimed by some on these forums.

[JohnBrown1917]

Interestingly enough, Bennett is the first religious Israeli PM, all the previous ones were secular (still his wife, and the #2 in his party are secular as well). So much for Israel being a theocracy as claimed by some on these forums.

I think you mixed up ethnostate with theocracy.

[Fandis]

I think you mixed up ethnostate with theocracy.

I didn't, the word theocracy has been mentioned way too many times (maybe less so in this thread, but plenty in other ones).
Btw what's wrong with ethnostate? You want diversity, we don't (just like many other countries in the world, example :Japan). We (the Jews) had our share of diversity in both Europe and the Arab states, didn't work too well for us. I think we'll try ethnostate this time.

[Polyxo]

I didn't, the word theocracy has been mentioned way too many times (maybe less so in this thread, but plenty in other ones).
Btw what's wrong with ethnostate? You want diversity, we don't (just like many other countries in the world, example :Japan). We (the Jews) had our share of diversity in both Europe and the Arab states, didn't work too well for us. I think we'll try ethnostate this time.

Fuck Japan for being the way they are.

[Fandis]

Fuck Japan for being the way they are.

Or maybe just let other countries live the way they want rather than trying to force your ways on them?

[Gaidax]

I'm just glad ultra religious crap gets kicked out of coalition, though knowing them - I bet they will weasel their way back in after half a year of pouting.

I think that Bennet is more talk than anything, but at least he showed some balls clenching that PM seat with his measly 6 parliament members and his tech entrepreneur background is a plus in my book.

The coalition itself is as shaky as it gets, I hope it manages to last a year and a half or so, because it sure as hell won't last 4. It will be a huge uphill battle seeing their razor thin majority of one person - every week will be a new no confidence vote battle for survival until that single person whoever it might be cracks, then it will be elections again.

[JohnBrown1917]

Or maybe just let other countries live the way they want rather than trying to force your ways on them?

Yeah, you don't do that by kicking out the native population.

[Polyxo]

Or maybe just let other countries live the way they want rather than trying to force your ways on them?

Yeah, well, I was part of that country.

[Elegiac]

Btw what's wrong with ethnostate?

Because it requires ethnic cleansing to achieve and maintain by definition. So this garbage:

You want diversity, we don't (just like many other countries in the world, example :Japan). We (the Jews) had our share of diversity in both Europe and the Arab states, didn't work too well for us.

Becomes even more laughable because you're complaining that people are calling Israel out for carrying out against others the very things you seem to think justifies the necessity of an ethnostate. "Ethnic cleansing is good because we got ethnic cleansed and that was bad" is some head-in-ass logic.

[Xarkan]

Because it requires ethnic cleansing to achieve and maintain by definition. So this garbage:



Becomes even more laughable because you're complaining that people are calling Israel out for carrying out against others the very things you seem to think justifies the necessity of an ethnostate. "Ethnic cleansing is good because we got ethnic cleansed and that was bad" is some head-in-ass logic.

To be fair.. for all Israel's faults they are not actually throwing people in gas chambers..

[downnola]

To be fair.. for all Israel's faults they are not actually throwing people in gas chambers..

That's true, but ethnic cleansing isn't just mass murder. Displacing groups based on their ethnicity to make way for Jewish settlements is also ethnic cleansing by definition.