Flying really does make the world lose any sense of danger

[Ealyssa]

To be remotely competitive, you can't do this.

That's the most stupid argument always repeated. It's a relaunch of a 14 years old game allready cleared… there is literally nothing to be "competitive" about that require you to fly, that's just a lie.

Flying makes things faster, yes. That's its purpose, that's what tons of people like it for. You dont like flying, JUST DONT FUCKING FLY.

[Dartz1979]

it does not cause any troubles its just faster way to get to and from

[Kralljin]

That's the most stupid argument always repeated.

Personally, i think you yourself repeated the most stupid argument.

You dont like flying, JUST DONT FUCKING FLY.

I think it's again pretty obvious what "competitive" in this context means, when someone farms 200g/h with epic flying, you can figure how much someone who sticks to their ground mount will make.
Which naturally puts anyone not willing to use a flying mount at a massive disadvantage as they have to spend a lot more time to acquire the same amount of gold.

When certain sections of the game are frankly designed around a given feature, then the argument "don't use it" is just plain stupid.
Putting aside that when you don't use flying in TBC, you literally close off certain sections of TBC content for you, because certain areas can only be accessed with flying.

[Nnyco]

If you wanna feel that immersed then just dont fly.

Do you understand how absurd your statement is yet,or should I continue?

Ah yes, because your form of travel is compareable to systems that enhance your output. "AH SHIT, didnt fly to raid now im gonna do 10% less dmg."

[Dome Fossil]

Ya know, I was just thinking "man, BC feels SO MUCH better than Shadowlands because we get flying straight from the get-go."

Instead of avoiding all the mobs and running way around to my objective just wasting time, I can fly over to it, also avoiding all danger, but getting to where I gotta go way faster. Not like outdoor content is challenging anyway, and you can't fly inside dungeons or raids. So... ya know. Why waste our time outdoors around all the trivial content?

[jellmoo]

Easy solution: Blizzard makes a 'No Flying' server, and offer people a free 1 time transfer to it if they so desire. Anyone that wants to experience the game without flying can play there without the temptation of flying. Problem solved and everyone's happy.

[Rendark]

Easy solution: Blizzard makes a 'No Flying' server, and offer people a free 1 time transfer to it if they so desire. Anyone that wants to experience the game without flying can play there without the temptation of flying. Problem solved and everyone's happy.

That would be great. Get to see how many people really hate flying.

[Otaka]

So don't fly. Keep your immersion and sense of danger.


Of course, like everyone who whines about flying, you won't do this.

This stupid argument has been heard for over a decade now.

It doesnt work like that... it also affects world pvp, but ofcourse you wouldnt accept that would you?

Noone likes running around the world only to be ganked by someone who swoops in from the air and gets an easy opener on you and you cant do anything about it... not even as revenge, because flying is and has always been a literal safety sanctuary.

No matter what kind of arguments people try to make to defend flying it still doesnt change the fact that it destroyed emergent world pvp. The only time you get ganked is when youve landed, and the only time you can revenge gank is when your enemy lands... which they most likely never do.

All these world pvp city fights end up in face to face staring contests midair... been there done that.
Back in the day our server alliance sometimes attacked the cities for fun and for just general pvp... but once flying mounts came about it was not possible to chase them away so instead of those epic chases across the zones to get them out of our lands it always ended in a staring contest midair with emotes flying both ways... how is that fun? noone can say thats fun. So everyone quit participating, now if someone did it noone would come to fight because they know its only a matter of one button mount up and they are safe from harms way and can pick their battles with precision... ON ENEMY TERRITORY, without stealth!

Those experiences were completely destroyed by flying, they no longer occur. Being safe on a flying mount is what made the world too safe in every way. Keep telling yourself that people who want to feel danger can just stop flying... its not going to make a difference. They are just gimping themselves while tryhards can just gank them endlessly if they so choose.

[anon5123]

so you can't fly inside through the window on said dragons and kill the main baddie, making all the dozens of guards on the ground look kiiiiiiiinda stupid.

So your argument is that flying mounts make solo questing easier?

Solo questing is not endgame content, it's not meant to be challenging in the first place. All the flying mount is doing is saving you a few minutes of clearing a path of mobs to get to the one you need to kill.

Also, this "fly inside keep and kill 1 guy" you keep bringing up......is only like 5% of quests at most.

So, oh no, flying mounts make 5% of quests easier to complete. How horrible, game ruined, 0/10 unsubbed

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Noone likes running around the world only to be ganked by someone who swoops in from the air and gets an easy opener on you

And this is different from someone riding by on their ground mount and getting an easy opener on you....how exactly?

Also, battlegrounds killed world pvp 500% more than flying did

lmao

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when someone farms 200g/h with epic flying, you can figure how much someone who sticks to their ground mount will make.

I make 200g/hr without a flying mount. It's called farming primals in areas with densely-packed elementals where a flying mount won't really give you much, if any, advantage.

Or just flipping things on the AH. Or using crafting professions. Or farming dungeons. etc.

You anti-flyers keep talking like it's impossible to make gold without epic flying, it's kind of pathetic.

[Erous]

Flying is less of a problem in old content when compared to new content. They could've made gold rain from the sky in TBCC and it's still old content. Flying doesn't make or break it. Current content, I see no reason for flying. I get around just fine on the ground.

[Dhrizzle]

Flying is only unlocked when you've already won the outdoor game. I don't want to have to progress through a game I've already beaten.

Nah, you can hit 70 long before you finish the world content. I think I had most of Netherstorm and all of Shadowmoon still to do when I originally got flight.

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I still think it's one of the best things ever added to the game, i still remember unlocking my netherdrakes fondly, and still love them.

However i do agree that the implementation as-is is very lacking,and not at all in line with the way it was originally presented (which was more akin to the vehicles system later added jn WotLK).

It seems to me like they just gave up on it around cataclysm, sadly enough. I've dedicated an entire thread to various proposals for fixing it.

But that said: to experience the world in flight, that is still one of the best additions WoW has ever had, in spite of all its shortcomings.

Yeah it's a bit of a double edged sword. Flying is undoubtedly a cool thing but it detracts from other cool things. That's why I've been really pleased with Pathfinder so far, being able to fly towards the end of the expansion feels like a nice reward for grinding through the content.

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MMO isn't single-time single-player game, where whole game is about exploring, navigating, solving puzzles, finding secrets. It's long term game. You play it for weeks, months and years. When you do the same quest/WQ for 100500th time - artificial obstacles become annoying and drive you away from game.

The best example - compare it with riding to your work through rush hour traffic jams. What would you prefer?

This?
<snip>

Or this?
<snip>

Your job - is what matters. Your route from home to your job and back doesn't. Because you do it every day, so you suffer from "cookie cutter" effect - you no longer notice, what's around you. You just want to get to place, that matter to you, as fast, as possible. That's it.

What bugs me, is that many players, who play MMO, are people without imagination. What they do in fantasy world - is the same, they do in real life. We are so limited in our real life. We want to have more opportunities. But all of a sudden when fantasy world allows us to do it - we reject it. We want difficulties, like if our real world wouldn't provide enough of them. I just can't understand it.

Actually I really like walking to work, I'll only accept a lift if time is an issue.

[Paperfox]

From what I understand about 9.1 is that one of the rewards that we get in the first three weeks will unlock flying in SL.

For all those who don't like flying - for whatever reason - put your money where your mouth is: don't redeem the item and destroy it.

[Dhrizzle]

Absolutely agreed. Outlands isn’t that big. No idea why they felt like nearly tripling Epic riding was needed. Even at 120% it would have been fast enough to warrant intra-zone travel but slow enough to use an FP for crossing zones.

Honestly I think they made it that fast because it's just really, really cool.

[Bee76]

I really think they could have done a better job implementing a much more limited flying system,

If you prefer a more limited flight system, or dislike flying at all the solution is quite simple: just dont fly ?

[Dhrizzle]

Thing is, they are still using flying as it was in TBC.

It hasn't been innovated - there should be flying combat allowed, rather than dismounting you, perhaps a slow to 40-60% speed and full combat abilities, i'm sure you can use magical reasoning why pets can float mid-air to fight.

People will complain, like in this thread, that they want to skip the world and fly over it, but who cares about them, might as well teleport in that case ... i prefer a fun ALIVE WORLD IN THE AIR!


It would add incredible new dynamism to PvP in the 3rd axis, it will add danger to the world and in PvE you are no longer running away from mobs but an entire zones can be produced with sparse platforms & majority flying with combat possibility.

This xpac would have been perfect for it. Bastion cloud cities instead of what we have - which is due to the ground combat nature of the game.

They really wanted to do this with WotLK. They had plans for flying vehicle PvP in Wintergrasp that even made it onto the box. They scrapped it because they couldn't make it work in a fun way and their experiments with flying combat in PvE only proved that everything about WoW - the controls, the UI, the engine and the core gameplay - really sucked for 3D combat.

[arkanon]

Blizzard uses flying to bring players back in the middle of an expansion. Its not going anywhere.

Either learn self control or play Classic.

This is the classic forum buddy.

[jellmoo]

That would be great. Get to see how many people really hate flying.

It would definitely be interesting. I wonder if they could populate a server per region with people that don't want fying.

[klogaroth]

There are tricks for all sorts of shenanigans to just go after the one mob that you care about.

There's 2 classes with stealth, that has barely any stealth gameplay involved, it's just toggled invisibility really. There's 2 classes with aggro resets. There's 2 classes with the ability to deathrun. In a lot of cases there's the opportunity to make mobs evade to ignore them. Early days you can also usually count on someone else being there clearing the way up to a named mob, and just walk past them.

There are reasons that instancing was invented and it does a much better job of creating the experience of fighting your way towards a boss that still works properly in a multiplayer environment.

[munkeyinorbit]

TBC is my favorite WoW expansion by far but I'm definitely one of those people that now contend flying is one of the worst things ever added o the game.

I get why people like it and enjoy it but, it also really destroys the feel of the world.

I'm now in Shadowmoon Valley, all these big scary fortresses with hundreds of elite guards and barricades and towers.... LOL jk just fly directly over them none of the monsters seem to notice or care.

Land in the middle of their fortress, kill the boss, fly out.

What's the point of building a big outdoor fortress with thousands of elite guards if anybody can just zip in? Flying really does destroy the "feel" of the world. It's just way too safe and way too convenient and way too solitary.

I really think they could have done a better job implementing a much more limited flying system, one that gives you some of the pros without all the cons.

If you don't want flying then go back to retail.

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I get what you're saying, but if you do most of the quests in every zone you ding 70 before you ever set foot in Netherstorm or Shadowmoon Valley.

Maybe instead of just dinging 70 they could have also required you beat a few key quest lines in both of those zones to unlock it first. After you've "completed" all the zon

It's just kinda sad that Shadowmoon Valley is built as this extremely intimidating and hostile zone but flying trivializes all of it.

You could choose to use your ground mount. By flying you are the one trivializing the content.

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My only issue with flying is that it came too soon. I would have loved to have at least 1 or 2 more expansions after Classic where we were still grounded.

When you get flying you don't lose the ability to use your ground mounts. If you don't want to fly then don't.

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"Don't like it, don't use it" is the worst argument ever.

If Blizzard added a optional 'insta kill' button, it would have ruined the content. But everyone would have used it.

No. You ruined the game. You chose to use flying. Your active decision to learn the skills and buy the mounts is why it's a great argument. If your "immersion" was actually real and you valued it then you wouldn't use flying at all. This is all on you.

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TBC is good, but I completely agree that flying should not be in the game. For one thing, flying disconnects the player from the world, and hence, to a notable degree, the community. That undermines the MMORPG nature of the game. TBC would be improved if they removed flying (and, obviously, made other necessary adjustments).

There was a hotfix overnight that gives you back any ground mounts you purchased in vanilla classic. You will be able to travel on your ground mounts again. You could try that instead of worrying about what other people are doing.

[TheWorkingTitle]

Yep. One of the biggest mistakes ever made by the WoW developers. They've admitted as much. Blatantly obvious that it completely trivializes all content on the ground. Glad you finally see how detrimental it is and has been.