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  1. #1
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    United States added to growing list 'backsliding democracies'

    Stockholm — The United States has joined an annual list of "backsliding" democracies for the first time, the International IDEA think-tank said on Monday, pointing to a "visible deterioration" that it said began in 2019. Globally, more than one in four people live in a backsliding democracy, a proportion that rises to more than two in three with the addition of authoritarian or "hybrid" regimes, according to the Stockholm-based International Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance.

    "This year we coded the United States as backsliding for the first time, but our data suggest that the backsliding episode began at least in 2019," it said in its report titled "Global State of Democracy 2021."


    "The United States is a high-performing democracy, and even improved its performance in indicators of impartial administration (corruption and predictable enforcement) in 2020. However, the declines in civil liberties and checks on government indicate that there are serious problems with the fundamentals of democracy," Alexander Hudson, a co-author of the report, told AFP.

    "A historic turning point came in 2020-21 when former president Donald Trump questioned the legitimacy of the 2020 election results in the United States," the report said.

    In addition, Hudson pointed to a "decline in the quality of freedom of association and assembly during the summer of protests in 2020" following the police killing of George Floyd.

    International IDEA bases its assessments on 50 years of democratic indicators in around 160 countries, assigning them to three categories: democracies (including those that are "backsliding"), "hybrid" governments and authoritarian regimes.

    "The visible deterioration of democracy in the United States, as seen in the increasing tendency to contest credible election results, the efforts to suppress participation (in elections), and the runaway polarization... is one of the most concerning developments," said International IDEA secretary-general Kevin Casas-Zamora.

    Earlier this month, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken told a group of civic leaders in Kenya that the world was witnessing "democratic recession," and he included challenges in the U.S. that he said were evidence of "just how fragile our democracy can be
    ."

    "This is an important time," Blinken told the human rights, labor and anti-corruption advocates at a Nairobi hotel. "Around the world we've seen we've seen over the last decade or so what some have called 'democratic recession'."

    He said combatting misinformation, political violence, voter intimidation and corruption was critical to halt the backslide of democratic principles.

    Casas-Zamora warned of a knock-on effect around the world from the unprecedented challenges to the democratic process in the U.S., noting: "The violent contestation of the 2020 election without any evidence of fraud has been replicated, in different ways, in places as diverse as Myanmar, Peru and Israel."

    The number of backsliding democracies has doubled in the past decade, now accounting for a quarter of the world's population. In addition to "established democracies" such as the U.S., the list includes EU member states Hungary, Poland and Slovenia.

    Two countries that were on the list last year — Ukraine and North Macedonia — were removed this year after their situations improved.

    Two others, Mali and Serbia, left the list because they are no longer considered democracies.

    While Myanmar moved from a democracy to an authoritarian regime, Afghanistan and Mali entered this category from their previous label of hybrid governments.

    For the fifth consecutive year, in 2020, countries veering towards authoritarianism outnumbered those enjoying democratization.

    International IDEA expects this trend to continue for 2021.

    For 2021, according to the group's provisional assessment, the world counts 98 democracies — the lowest number in many years — as well as 20 "hybrid" governments including Russia, Morocco and Turkey, and 47 authoritarian regimes including China, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia and Iran.

    Adding backsliding democracies to the hybrid and authoritarian states, "we are talking about 70 percent of the population in the world," Casas-Zamora told AFP.

    "That tells you that there is something fundamentally serious happening with the quality of democracy," he added.

    The report said the trend towards democratic erosion has "become more acute and worrying" since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic.


    For the fifth consecutive year, in 2020, countries veering towards authoritarianism outnumbered those enjoying democratization.

    International IDEA expects this trend to continue for 2021.

    For 2021, according to the group's provisional assessment, the world counts 98 democracies — the lowest number in many years — as well as 20 "hybrid" governments including Russia, Morocco and Turkey, and 47 authoritarian regimes including China, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia and Iran.

    Adding backsliding democracies to the hybrid and authoritarian states, "we are talking about 70 percent of the population in the world," Casas-Zamora told AFP.

    "That tells you that there is something fundamentally serious happening with the quality of democracy," he added.

    The report said the trend towards democratic erosion has "become more acute and worrying" since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic.
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-back...l-democracies/


    The US has been placed on this list of a number of 'backsliding' democracies in the world. A list that attempts to gauge the state democracy in the world. The study acknowledges the role of the pandemic one the erosion of what it sees as democratic principles but claims that its assets take place over a set amount of time - decline was already in place and the pandemic only added to an already downward trend. Only 30% of the world lives outside the bubble of 'backsliding - > authoritarian' regimes.

    One of the biggest contributors to the erosion of democracy is misinformation.

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  2. #2
    Aha! See! This is what happens when our tyrannical government tries to stop us from behaving like plague rats!

  3. #3
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-back...l-democracies/


    The US has been placed on this list of a number of 'backsliding' democracies in the world. A list that attempts to gauge the state democracy in the world. The study acknowledges the role of the pandemic one the erosion of what it sees as democratic principles but claims that its assets take place over a set amount of time - decline was already in place and the pandemic only added to an already downward trend. Only 30% of the world lives outside the bubble of 'backsliding - > authoritarian' regimes.

    One of the biggest contributors to the erosion of democracy is misinformation.
    Honestly, I think they're overly conservative by stating it started in 2019. "Alternative facts" was being spewed around in 2015, and that was fundamentally just the next step down a fairly lengthy path. While it certainly wouldn't mark the point of change, I think the tipping point (meaning where the pattern shifted in this direction, not the point where it passed the line of "declining democracy") was the mid-90s, and the emergence of Fox News, with the intent that Fox would provide the "other side" of the news, when the "mainstream side" was already centrist, meaning Fox basically had to traffic in disinfo by design and intent.

    Before that, there wasn't really any concrete systemic force pushing this. You'd have Republicans pushing nonsense ideas like "trickle-down economics" starting with Reagan, but there wasn't a huge dedicated platform designed to be the sole feeding trough of disinfo for a massive sector of the population, just helter-skelter dishonesty, a la carte so to speak.


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    Old God Milchshake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    One of the biggest contributors to the erosion of democracy is misinformation.
    Remember when you spent months pushing the misinformation that Biden was a leaky brained rapist.


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    This has been a trend since the 2008 election, and really started before that. In the 2008 election when Obama won and the GOP lost badly in Congress, Republicans kind of panicked. They looked at the growing Hispanic portion of the population in the US which historically votes Demo and there was major fear mongering voiced by Limbaugh and others that the Republicans would never win another election. That fear mongering along with gun control fear mongering did work for the GOP in 2012 in Congressional elections, and they doubled-down in 2016 with Trump when authoritarianism, gerrymandering, loading courts, etc. flourished. The article saying it started in 2019 is very late (although it proves it was going on before COVID-19, or Biden), although 2019 under Trump is when the slide started to become more apparent internationally.

    The conservative media and misinformation has definitely fueled it. Russia openly admits that YouTube is their most effective propaganda tool. The "Fair and Balanced" Fox hosts all left on moral grounds when the network embraced misinformation, which was the right thing to do but afterwards FOX went even more extreme in it's views. It's successfully played on nationalism, hate, and fear to build it's huge popularity. Ironically nearly every second of FOX has a red white & blue banner flag waving to appeal to and try to portray itself as patriotic, while it's message is one of hate and pushing for non-Democratic Anti-American 1 party rule that goes against everything the founding fathers and Democracy in the US has stood for. It goes back to the core fear from 2008 that the GOP thinks gerrymandering, false claims of voter fraud to overturn voting results if they lose, misinformation, appealing to the far-right 'silent majority', use of force if they lose an election (ex. 1/6), etc. is the only way to save the GOP.

    The other issue is Congress. As long as the GOP is full Trumpism it isn't really Democratic. In the failed Senate impeachment vote of Trump the GOP kind of sold their soul. The constitution was written so that Congress would be a check to the President's power as part of a Democratic system, and not treat him like a king like Trump wanted to be. But the GOP gave him a free pass, effectively eliminating that check. That essentially said that if the GOP holds either the House or Senate, a future GOP President won't ever be impeached for anything. Trumpism is not Democratic, it's authoritarianism, and it's what one of the 2 parties in our 2 party system have embraced. There is nothing Democratic about Trumpism, it's desiring a 1 party political system you'd see in South American or Eastern European dictatorships. Democrats are also to partly to blame for failing to counter this authoritarian push by the GOP over the past 13+ years. So yes democracy is backsliding, but it's not a recent development or news for anyone in the US that's been paying attention.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Biglog View Post
    This has been a trend since the 2008 election, and really started before that. In the 2008 election when Obama won and the GOP lost badly in Congress, Republicans kind of panicked.
    They didn't panic. They already had a plan in place to take the 2010 elections so they could control districting in the upcoming decade.

    The only thing that probably would've stopped this from happening is McCain winning. The US can be very contrarian in its voting habits and the GOP would've done a terrible job of fixing Bush's economic crisis.

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    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Yeah it's an issue that there is a lot of confused authoritarians. The solution is to promote the values of liberal democracy such as tolerance for differences, liberty, consent, universal suffrage, etc. What is confounding to me is that people worry about this but rarely ever promote the system itself and the principles it's based on. For some reason people focus on targeting other groups of people for criticism instead of trying to convince them of which policy values are correct, and why.

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    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KuerbisgeschmackShake View Post
    Remember when you spent months pushing the misinformation that Biden was a leaky brained rapist.

    Nooo! My presidinto is perfect!!!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Biglog View Post
    This has been a trend since the 2008 election, and really started before that. In the 2008 election when Obama won and the GOP lost badly in Congress, Republicans kind of panicked.
    In 2000, when Bush won and the Dems lost badly, they kinda panicked.
    In 2016, when Trump won and the Dems lost badly, they kinda panicked.

    Bipartisan bad news, which is kinda a shit sandwich for the hyperpartisans out there. And I accept the aftermath of 2020 as a massive step downward.

    The other issue is Congress. As long as the GOP is full Trumpism it isn't really Democratic.
    For the record, spinning democratic votes you lose as not really Democratic makes you a cheerleader for a backsliding democracy. I don't care who you are or what you support, but if you can't stand behind the vote, you're no friend to democratic anything.
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    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    "US is not democratic, it's a republic!"

    But honestly, 2019? US has been sliding towards authoritarianism and fascism for quite some time now. This is not a new development.
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    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    For the record, spinning democratic votes you lose as not really Democratic makes you a cheerleader for a backsliding democracy. I don't care who you are or what you support, but if you can't stand behind the vote, you're no friend to democratic anything.
    This presumes the vote is fair and representative.

    Given the long, long history in the USA, of the Electoral College, of gerrymandering, of recent voter suppression efforts by the GOP, and so forth, that's not a presumption that holds water.


  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    In 2000, when Bush won and the Dems lost badly, they kinda panicked.
    "lost badly"

    Is that code for, "Won the popular vote and lost the EC vote by 5 votes, which had the SCOTUS not ratfucked the Florida recount would have likely flipped it."?

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Bipartisan bad news, which is kinda a shit sandwich for the hyperpartisans out there. And I accept the aftermath of 2020 as a massive step downward.
    If it is, it's because the losers can't accept that they lost.

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    For the record, spinning democratic votes you lose as not really Democratic makes you a cheerleader for a backsliding democracy.
    Like what votes are we talking about here?

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I don't care who you are or what you support, but if you can't stand behind the vote, you're no friend to democratic anything.
    Take it up with the Republican party writ-large then, they're the ones with the biggest issues with the democratic vote.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Biglog View Post
    This has been a trend since the 2008 election, and really started before that. In the 2008 election when Obama won and the GOP lost badly in Congress, Republicans kind of panicked. They looked at the growing Hispanic portion of the population in the US which historically votes Demo and there was major fear mongering voiced by Limbaugh and others that the Republicans would never win another election. That fear mongering along with gun control fear mongering did work for the GOP in 2012 in Congressional elections, and they doubled-down in 2016 with Trump when authoritarianism, gerrymandering, loading courts, etc. flourished. The article saying it started in 2019 is very late (although it proves it was going on before COVID-19, or Biden), although 2019 under Trump is when the slide started to become more apparent internationally.
    I am going to have to disagree with you there republicans were winning the Hispanic vote, if I recall Bush won close to 40% it was their fastest growing demographic and seen as the future of the party. Hispanics are much closer to republicans then democrats being very conservative and religious on average, republicans purposefully decided to destroy their standing with them and double down on the white vote.

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    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Yeah it's an issue that there is a lot of confused authoritarians. The solution is to promote the values of liberal democracy such as tolerance for differences, liberty, consent, universal suffrage, etc. What is confounding to me is that people worry about this but rarely ever promote the system itself and the principles it's based on. For some reason people focus on targeting other groups of people for criticism instead of trying to convince them of which policy values are correct, and why.
    Bro, conservatives shit on liberals for trying "indoctrinate" people with marxist propaganda when they attempt to "convince them which values are correct". There is a huge segment of the country that just will not listen to anything that is said. Communication, reaching across the aisle, cooperation, liberal values have attempted these things for the last 15ish years, only to have their hands spit on by the GOP.

    Attempts to explain and cooperate have failed thanks to shit holes like Fox News spreading the belief that communism is taking over.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    For the record, spinning democratic votes you lose as not really Democratic makes you a cheerleader for a backsliding democracy. I don't care who you are or what you support, but if you can't stand behind the vote, you're no friend to democratic anything.
    Here's the thing about Democracy: Democracy as a concept relies on an informed public making decisions based on facts. Once a huge portion of the population becomes subject to hyper partisan bullshit like "Joe Biden is a Marx Communist trying to steal your guns and tax away all your money" democracy begins to degrade. The more and more people become hypnotized by violent ideologies pushed by the GOP, the less Democracy is a thing.

    Democracy as an institution isn't just "Everyone gets to vote", the original concepts of Democracy were stated to require an informed public. It's why we don't allow kids to vote. They're too young to understand the impacts of politics on their lives. What age they become eligible to vote is pretty arbitrary, sure, but typically it is set at the point where kids become independent from their parents.
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  15. #15
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Honestly, I think they're overly conservative by stating it started in 2019. "Alternative facts" was being spewed around in 2015, and that was fundamentally just the next step down a fairly lengthy path. While it certainly wouldn't mark the point of change, I think the tipping point (meaning where the pattern shifted in this direction, not the point where it passed the line of "declining democracy") was the mid-90s, and the emergence of Fox News, with the intent that Fox would provide the "other side" of the news, when the "mainstream side" was already centrist, meaning Fox basically had to traffic in disinfo by design and intent.

    Before that, there wasn't really any concrete systemic force pushing this. You'd have Republicans pushing nonsense ideas like "trickle-down economics" starting with Reagan, but there wasn't a huge dedicated platform designed to be the sole feeding trough of disinfo for a massive sector of the population, just helter-skelter dishonesty, a la carte so to speak.
    The actual report does refer back to earlier dates in regards to the US. 2019 seems to be the tipping point for the metric. Like the US was riding the line, went over in 2019, and has no real moves back. And if 2019 wasn't it, post 2020 election sure is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    I am going to have to disagree with you there republicans were winning the Hispanic vote, if I recall Bush won close to 40% it was their fastest growing demographic and seen as the future of the party. Hispanics are much closer to republicans then democrats being very conservative and religious on average, republicans purposefully decided to destroy their standing with them and double down on the white vote.
    One problem is that people see Hispanics as monolithic. The Hispanic population in Florida votes different than the one In New York, same goes for New York and Texas, Texas to Nevada, Nevada to California.

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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    One problem is that people see Hispanics as monolithic. The Hispanic population in Florida votes different than the one In New York, same goes for New York and Texas, Texas to Nevada, Nevada to California.
    Agreed but I was speaking about the trend on average was in Republicans favor until they destroyed it.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    In 2000, when Bush won and the Dems lost badly, they kinda panicked.
    In 2016, when Trump won and the Dems lost badly, they kinda panicked.

    Bipartisan bad news, which is kinda a shit sandwich for the hyperpartisans out there. And I accept the aftermath of 2020 as a massive step downward.
    bOtH SiIiideZzs!

  18. #18
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    In 2000, when Bush won and the Dems lost badly, they kinda panicked.
    In 2016, when Trump won and the Dems lost badly, they kinda panicked.

    Bipartisan bad news, which is kinda a shit sandwich for the hyperpartisans out there. And I accept the aftermath of 2020 as a massive step downward.
    Well let's see, did the democrats try and storm the capitol building with the intent of hanging the vice president and resulting in multiple casualties?

    Did Gore and Hillary continue to espouse the narrative that the election had been stolen from them almost a year after it was said and done?

    No?

    Looks like the democrats handled that better then, doesn't it.

    Hey, maybe we need them in charge more. They seem to be handling things in a less backsliding-democracy type way.


    For the record, spinning democratic votes you lose as not really Democratic makes you a cheerleader for a backsliding democracy. I don't care who you are or what you support, but if you can't stand behind the vote, you're no friend to democratic anything.
    When the votes are affected by things that intentionally disenfranchise minorities and young people, or put into place processes by which people can choose to throw out popular votes because they don't like the result, that is not democratic.

    You can't even pretend that doesn't happen, or that "the democrats do it just as bad as the republicans." It does happen, they do not, and there is no excuse for it. You can see examples of it in the last election with Trump baldly attempting to defund the postal service and delegitimize mail-in ballots (again, you can't say that didn't happen,) his multiple attempts of pushing for recounts, and all with zero actual evidence of fraud found or suspected by anyone without a vested interest in Trump winning. Tack onto that years of conservative states attempting (and being rebuked) in passing "voter ID laws" that are found by nonpartisan parties to be exclusively about voter suppression, in addition to bald-faced gerrymandering that works to decrease the voting power of non-GOP voters.

    Again, these are not debatable hypotheticals, whether you've chosen to ignore their existence or not. They are long documented trends and things Trump tried to do less than a year ago. The back slide of democracy in the United States is wholly a republican invention, and if you support them, you are on some level okay with that.
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  19. #19
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    In 2000, when Bush won and the Dems lost badly, they kinda panicked.
    In 2016, when Trump won and the Dems lost badly, they kinda panicked.

    Bipartisan bad news, which is kinda a shit sandwich for the hyperpartisans out there. And I accept the aftermath of 2020 as a massive step downward.


    For the record, spinning democratic votes you lose as not really Democratic makes you a cheerleader for a backsliding democracy. I don't care who you are or what you support, but if you can't stand behind the vote, you're no friend to democratic anything.
    The famous 2000 elections where Bush allied judges stopped the Florida recount you mean? But hey, that was 22 years ago! That won't happen again, voter suppression and gerrymandering does that job now.


    Don't worry, you all are not the only ones with this type of democracy, Singapore is also really good at it.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Honestly, I think they're overly conservative by stating it started in 2019. "Alternative facts" was being spewed around in 2015, and that was fundamentally just the next step down a fairly lengthy path. While it certainly wouldn't mark the point of change, I think the tipping point (meaning where the pattern shifted in this direction, not the point where it passed the line of "declining democracy") was the mid-90s, and the emergence of Fox News, with the intent that Fox would provide the "other side" of the news, when the "mainstream side" was already centrist, meaning Fox basically had to traffic in disinfo by design and intent.
    That would coincide with Newt Gingrich's Republican Revolution.

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