Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Sondrelk]

Literally how.

A world revamp would likely have been worked on in the background for ages. The assets especially we know is being updated slowly ever since MoP, and BfA showed that revamping zones goes by fairly quickly when it's a half and half approach like Darkshore compared to Arathi.

Something like Dragon Isles meanwhile likely required loads of custom assets, entirely new zones and generally more work to make it from nothing to what we expect.
It would likely also require a more holistic approach than just having zone designers fiddle with it in their spare time.

In short a world revamp is more conducive to being made slowly over a longer time by mostly independent artists.
Dragon Isles would require far more intercommunication between zone designers, and would likely therefore have to be made in one big chunk by dedicated staff, and not just what a couple of designers fiddle with in-between making Shadowlands.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Exactly! Preach it friend! That's what hurts the most as a Sylvanas fan!

No, no preaching here. You are just deluded and can't handle your favorite banshee be seen in a negative light. Fucking deal with it. Sylvanas was always a shady and dark character even before the Zovaal machinations. She deserves to answer for her crimes. Unlike the Fallen Prince who didn't even get to be judged fairly.

[draugril]

A world revamp would likely have been worked on in the background for ages. The assets especially we know is being updated slowly ever since MoP, and BfA showed that revamping zones goes by fairly quickly when it's a half and half approach like Darkshore compared to Arathi.

Something like Dragon Isles meanwhile likely required loads of custom assets, entirely new zones and generally more work to make it from nothing to what we expect.
It would likely also require a more holistic approach than just having zone designers fiddle with it in their spare time.

In short a world revamp is more conducive to being made slowly over a longer time by mostly independent artists.
Dragon Isles would require far more intercommunication between zone designers, and would likely therefore have to be made in one big chunk by dedicated staff, and not just what a couple of designers fiddle with in-between making Shadowlands.

Eh, Cataclysm still gave us new zones. I wouldn't completely rule out an accompanying theme to go along with a world revamp. In fact, I would go as far as saying that modern Blizzard isn't brave enough to solely payoff existing zone stories. Or perhaps they're simply too vain to not inject their own "originality" into new content.

[Sondrelk]

Eh, Cataclysm still gave us new zones. I wouldn't completely rule out an accompanying theme to go along with a world revamp. In fact, I would go as far as saying that modern Blizzard isn't brave enough to solely payoff existing zone stories. Or perhaps they're simply too vain to not inject their own "originality" into new content.

Everything is possible, and if I were to guess I would say next expansion will more likely be dragon isles than a world revamp, but there could be curve balls.
Could be the cata approach where we get a world revamp + new zones. Could be we get a world revamp only. Could be we get a world revamp with patch islands. Or for that matter could be we get no world revamp, or the BfA approach of new continent, but a large chunk of content in revamped zones.

I only hope they don't do a world revamp and make the same mistakes cata did. Now that would be especially tragic. All this time waiting for a world revamp only to have it wasted.


I guess only time can tell.

[Makorus]

We're specifically talking about her dialog, which as she describes, Zovaal, WAS controlling her. Much like how Bolvar describes Zovaal trying to control him through the helm of domination in his short story. Although I agree, this is such an asspull we might as well just assume Sylvanas is lying. Way to pwn every one of her fans. Sylvanas gets killed by Frostmorne in her literal first appearance in the franchise, so everyone who liked her character? Sorry, turns out you've never actually met the real Sylvanas. And judging by the scene where Anduin attacks the Archon, the Jailer's mind control is effectively him roleplaying as the characters he controls.

A real abortion of a storyline: A gigantic waste of the last 2 years.

Except the piece of dialogue you are referring to never actually outright states that she is talking about Zovaal, and the discussion you just butted in is literally about whether its Arthas or the Jailer she is talking about.

[Dracullus]

A world revamp would likely have been worked on in the background for ages. The assets especially we know is being updated slowly ever since MoP, and BfA showed that revamping zones goes by fairly quickly when it's a half and half approach like Darkshore compared to Arathi.

Something like Dragon Isles meanwhile likely required loads of custom assets, entirely new zones and generally more work to make it from nothing to what we expect.
It would likely also require a more holistic approach than just having zone designers fiddle with it in their spare time.

In short a world revamp is more conducive to being made slowly over a longer time by mostly independent artists.
Dragon Isles would require far more intercommunication between zone designers, and would likely therefore have to be made in one big chunk by dedicated staff, and not just what a couple of designers fiddle with in-between making Shadowlands.

Still, enormous piece of content like that would require more testing. Cause I don't like really expect just graphic makeover. If they are revamping Azeroth, they will give everyone reason to go there. And not like in Cata, I mean people on their mains.

EDIT: Also, I remember Danuser talking about low possibility of 9.3 - not as raid patch, but something smaller (probably bigger than X.X.5 I guess). If we would have February/March -> November/December timeline, they wouldn't even think of puting any more patches.

[Zers Editor]

Deciphering requires solving puzzles in-game, apparently. Some are arguing they're too difficult, though.

[Relapses]

Deciphering requires solving puzzles in-game, apparently. Some are arguing they're too difficult, though.

If it's like that stupid Nazjatar world quest, yeah. That shit was annoying as fuck.

[ohwell]

We're specifically talking about her dialog, which as she describes, Zovaal, WAS controlling her. Much like how Bolvar describes Zovaal trying to control him through the helm of domination in his short story. Although I agree, this is such an asspull we might as well just assume Sylvanas is lying. Way to pwn every one of her fans. Sylvanas gets killed by Frostmorne in her literal first appearance in the franchise, so everyone who liked her character? Sorry, turns out you've never actually met the real Sylvanas. And judging by the scene where Anduin attacks the Archon, the Jailer's mind control is effectively him roleplaying as the characters he controls.

A real abortion of a storyline: A gigantic waste of the last 2 years.

Except it doesn't..... Nowhere does she mention him by name so you claiming it's Zovaal factually is not something you can claim whereas more evidence simply says she's talking about Arthas which everything lines up perfectly. Not sure where everyone is getting that it's Zovaal simply because she shot him with an arrow. She was LITERALLY controlled by Arthas and forced to commit atrocities on her people. Nowhere in her history as an undead has she shown any compassion to a people so it clearly is talking about the march to the sunwell. She was not under Zovaal's control.

[Chickat]

Excited to jump on and see how big the zone is in person.

[Zers Editor]

If it's like that stupid Nazjatar world quest, yeah. That shit was annoying as fuck.

At least it requires your brain to solve it quickly, instead of just time-gating it "because stretch".

[Relapses]

At least it requires your brain to solve it quickly, instead of just time-gating it "because stretch".

I like brain teasers. I didn't like those quests, though. More often than not it just felt like clicking randomly until you got close to a solution. I'd wager that's how most other people approached that quest as well.

[huth]

I like brain teasers. I didn't like those quests, though. More often than not it just felt like clicking randomly until you got close to a solution. I'd wager that's how most other people approached that quest as well.

Most were easily solvable with a few clicks if you actually bothered to study the situation.

[Chickat]

Most were easily solvable with a few clicks if you actually bothered to study the situation.

Yeah Nazjatar had some of the best world quests to date. They made them worse and more tedious in shadowlands.

[Valysar]

Yeah Nazjatar had some of the best world quests to date. They made them worse and more tedious in shadowlands.

Jumping on flowers and fall through them... Nice

[Dracullus]

Jumping on flowers and fall through them... Nice

You don't remember Nazjatar had even worse world quest (Jumping Jellies)?

[Valysar]

You don't remember Nazjatar had even worse world quest (Jumping Jellies)?

I found this WQ easier

[Hitei]

Jumping on flowers and fall through them... Nice

Honestly the only time I ever ran into problems with the flowers was when there were like 20 people trying to do it at once.

[Jokubas]

I didn't fall through the flowers very often, but when it happened it would happen even in the dead center. Although maybe that was the actual problem. Trying to recall vague memories, I think it happened less often on the edges of the flowers, weirdly enough.

On another note, I was just looking over the encounter journal and I'm a bit worried. I recall it originally being assumed that Arthas wouldn't be in the expansion at all, though the quote was more along the lines of "we're not going to put him in without respecting his story" or something. The encounter journal is implying Arthas might appear... as just some generic raid mechanic that's holding Anduin back. That feels like the exact situation they didn't want to do. It's worse than not including him at all, in my opinion.

It's like some monkey's paw, and it reminds me of Sargeras. There was lots of concern that he was too powerful for us to fight and us beating him in a raid fight would diminish his character. And we didn't beat him in a raid fight... he got defeated incredibly easily in a cutscene without even needing us to contribute.

It also feels like Ner'zhul. Unlike many others, I didn't mind Ner'zhul's role in Warlords of Draenor. The whole point was that it was a timeline in which he didn't choose that path that made him into the powerful Lich King. If anything, I think his fate ended up a little too much like his original self despite completely different timing and circumstances. However, he just keeps appearing in the main timeline in pathetic roles that are really disappointing, especially considering the confirmation that he absolutely was holding a greater evil back when he was the Lich King. I think he should be too far gone to have a significant plot role, but I didn't like beating him up as a generic boss to fill out a raid. He should have been someone who gave us tips on this path to learning about Domination Magic or something. That's the sort of thing that feels bad when you reference an old plot or character. Bringing them back can be fine. It can be real payoff for a story. Pandering isn't just bringing them back, it's bringing them back for a quick reference that doesn't care about context.

Obviously we don't have the whole context yet, and that's why this is a concern and not a complaint, but I just think it would be a waste of all of Arthas' history and the way Uther and Pelagos have discussed it this expansion to just result in "generic evil raid mechanic".

[Chickat]

You don't remember Nazjatar had even worse world quest (Jumping Jellies)?

Jumping jellies was fun, and way less buggy. I loved the match 3 puzzles, and the string ones were fun too. Lots of kill the mob ones which were fast. Honestly, mix the best from Mechagon, Nazjatar, with a little bit more story focus from Suramar, and its the perfect end game zone imo.