Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Vakir]

They literally said she won’t be redeemed

She can be left "unredeemed" and still get nowhere near the outcome she deserves.

This sad sack bullshit shouldn't have happened in the first place. The soul-split/dysphoria robs the character of agency altogether as it is.

[Valysar]

By the way, Sylvanas had so many skins ... lol
(the forum bugs?)

[Aeluron Lightsong]

"Shouldn't remove a character's agency" Thats the point of Undeath, your agency is controlled for you and taken away. Always has been about that.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Looks like Sylvanas won't be Lich Queen or Jailer. Is she going back to the Forsaken then?

[Vakir]

"Shouldn't remove a character's agency" Thats the point of Undeath, your agency is controlled for you and taken away. Always has been about that.

There's a difference between someone's character being warped or distorted in terms of morality or the ability to control their emotions and having literal separation between two parts of themselves.

The former allows for the potential of anti-villains/anti-heroes that are isolated from the standard but can still be compelling, because their choices, for good or ill, are 100% their own but under magical duress or the like. The latter means that there's a way to separate a character from their consequences conveniently so long as you get that part of them back.

The idea was always that Frostmourne and the like would "scar the spirit," but the ability to effectively "cure" a character by restoring a missing piece is the problem here. It allows that backtracking and makes it possible to ignore much of the damage by hitting an effective reset button.

Or even failing that, it undermines characters that are undead that didn't fall THAT far off the slope.

At this point, Sylvanas isn't any different than she was back when we first saw her in Warcraft 3. She just needs some therapy. Once that's over, there's basically no reason to treat her as the same character that we've followed for the last 18 years.

[EbaumsTipster]

Looks like Sylvanas won't be Lich Queen or Jailer. Is she going back to the Forsaken then?

We know that Jailer falls over, but Bolvar says he gets "destroyed".

Sylvanas is probably going to suicide bomb or jump into the origination laser with him. They're gone.

[Ersula]

I'm a sylvanas stan & even I think this is an asspull.

Of all the things they could do they choose the "The real sylvanas is this person you never met" plot twist? And I thought Elune got mistreated in this storyline; its nothing compared to Sylvanas. Everyone who liked the Character gets told The real sylvanas? She was that person who was in Warcraft 3 for 2 seconds. The Sylvanas you spent nearly 20 years with is just some monster that's going away forever now.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

The ending of that cinematic actually kind of got me.

The same music playing during some of the last moments of Vol'jin's Death Cinematic, in other words- her rise to Warchief,

and similarly, we see the same overhead shot of the others disappearing as she remains in frame.

I'd say this kind of sunsets her arc started in Legion then.
At the end of the day, Vol'jin, despite declaring never trusting her, ultimately did believe she -could- "step out of the shadows and lead," but she failed that expectation.

That was odd, not sure exactly if there's much that can be done with her going forward as like a "renewed" Windrunner, so I'm hoping she can just commit one last good deed to honor Vol'jin's act of trust in her, and die heroically.

"In the end, Death claims us all.." - Sylvanas in the Vol'jin Death cinematic.. Yeaaa the musical connection says to me she is on her way out, in a good way.

[Ersula]

We know that Jailer falls over, but Bolvar says he gets "destroyed".

Sylvanas is probably going to suicide bomb or jump into the origination laser with him. They're gone.

Why would they give her a new post-raid model if she's just going to blow herself up at the end of the raid?

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

The ending of that cinematic actually kind of got me.

The same music playing during some of the last moments of Vol'jin's Death Cinematic, in other words- her rise to Warchief,

and similarly, we see the same overhead shot of the others disappearing as she remains in frame.

I'd say this kind of sunsets her arc started in Legion then.
At the end of the day, Vol'jin, despite declaring never trusting her, ultimately did believe she -could- "step out of the shadows and lead," but she failed that expectation.

That was odd, not sure exactly if there's much that can be done with her going forward as like a "renewed" Windrunner, so I'm hoping she can just commit one last good deed to honor Vol'jin's act of trust in her, and die heroically.

"In the end, Death claims us all.." - Sylvanas in the Vol'jin Death cinematic.. Yeaaa the musical connection says to me she is on her way out, in a good way.

Her new model says otherwise. She's definitely going to survive.

[Ersula]

"Shouldn't remove a character's agency" Thats the point of Undeath, your agency is controlled for you and taken away. Always has been about that.

Way to tell all forsaken & death knights, arguably the most iconic things in the warcraft universe, to fuck off I guess

Also which is it? Are people responsible for things they had no agency in? That's the worst part of the writing lately: Agency & Responsibility have to go hand-in-hand: If you have no agency, you're not responsible for something someone forced you to do, so the writing constantly flip-flops what agency the characters have. Moral Ambiguity is one thing, but that's different from the lore being willfully-obtuse.

[infinitemeridian]

Did they retcon High Elf eyes?

[Vakir]

Way to tell all forsaken & death knights, arguably the most iconic things in the warcraft universe, to fuck off I guess

He's too disabled to understand otherwise.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

Her new model says otherwise. She's definitely going to survive.

That sounds about as convincing as you proclaiming you're quitting WoW.

Didn't you get the memo when she split the Helm of Domination, that your idea of what they'll do with Sylvanas must be skewed?

Notice, just notice please.. How humility when speaking can go so much farther than spewing stuff out like it's fact when we don't know. Language like "says to me" instead of "she's definitely" yknow?


Besides why wouldn't Blizz want to send her out with a stylish bang?

[Vakir]

We already know Sylvanas lives long enough to get to the judgment cinematic datamined.

The new model is immaterial.

[Very rare pepe]

Love the new model. But as a woman, looking at those straps makes my boob hurt.

Hey! It's 2021, us guys have boobs that would be affected by that strap too!

Also I don't see Sylvanas being killed off, but she certainly isn't going back to the horde, what else is there for her? Gonna pull an Illidan and stay hidden away until blizzard needs some extra subs?

[Civciv]

That sounds about as convincing as you proclaiming you're quitting WoW.

Didn't you get the memo when she split the Helm of Domination, that your idea of what they'll do with Sylvanas must be skewed?

Notice, just notice please.. How humility when speaking can go so much farther than spewing stuff out like it's fact when we don't know. Language like "says to me" instead of "she's definitely" yknow?


Besides why wouldn't Blizz want to send her out with a stylish bang?

Are you trolling? She is in the Reforging helm, judgement cutscenes. She obv isnt gonna die.

[Ersula]

Last night Steve Danuser woke in the middle of the night & yelled "Oh my god we forgot to do anything with Nathanos"

[Archmage Xaxxas]

Are you trolling? She is in the Reforging helm, judgement cutscenes. She obv isnt gonna die.

I never even suggested a timeframe of her departure.

In my final sentence, I specifically used the language "on her way out, in a good way." even though I previously stated 'I'm hopeful' she'll die heroically.

Who is the Troll here, really? good grief.

[Ersula]

Looks like Sylvanas won't be Lich Queen or Jailer. Is she going back to the Forsaken then?

I'm getting "time to go back to the Alliance" vibes. But I mean, hey considering she still has loyalists, I'm hoping shes the Forsaken Elf allied race leader