[TV] The Wheel of Time

[Smallfruitbat]

I genuinely liked Siuan and Moiraine together but it felt like token representation. Sophie absolutely knocked it out of the park, even the 'my world' speech -which was totally contrary to Siuan's character. I didn't like Thom and Moiraine in the books. Siuan and Gareth worked as a pairing and it would be a shame to lose that. I suspect that Nynaeve will heal Moiraine instead of Siuan, which was another incredible moment in the books. I wouldn't be surprised if Siuan is killed in the tower coup.

I know people want to see people like them on TV and I don't think its right to demonize those feelings; it needs to be in proportion though.

[Corvus]

As bad as the show has been, at least it has been good for some laughs pointing out how bad it was.

A rewrite of the cast introductions from 2019;



Lord of the Rings if it had been rewritten by Rafe;

Gandalf is now the main character. He comes to the Shire to get Frodo to destroy the ring except he doesn’t know who has the ring. The Old Gaffer is a drunk who beats Sam. Pippin accidentally kills his wife when Orcs attack. Merry is now a woman and will be the most powerful kickass member of the group even better than Aragorn.

After they leave the shire they skip Bree. The only location they visit is weathertop where Merry defeats the Ringwraiths while Aragorn watches.

Gandalf is injured and they get separated and Gandalf then goes on a side quest to fuck around with some other Wizards doing a bunch of made up shit. Then he goes to Rivendell and hope the rest show up and we also spend time on a made up storyline about a sad Ranger. But there isn’t enough time to adapt the whole book because they only have 8 episodes.

After that they go straight to Rivendell where Gandalf and Elrond have gay sex. The show is proclaimed a huge success because of this.

They skip Moria because fuck that shit. Gandalf doesn’t fight the Balrog because they spent all the money on wigs and he is still alive.

Boromir says fuck this show it’s so bad I am not being in it anymore and runs off to Gondor.

Then Frodo announces he has the ring which everyone forgot he was even in the show. He and Gandalf ditch everyone else and go through the briar patch to fight Sauron and destroy the ring.

Everyone else, well the women anyway, go to fight the army of Mordor. Merry and Legolas (who is now a woman too) solo the army. Except Legolas dies but Merry brings him back to life.

I forgot Treebead. He is some dude with some sticks tapped to him and a weird wig. You thought he was going to do something but he dies. They probably could have saved some money on wigs and just left him out. Oh but the show runner says he is not dead so why the fuck kill him or at least let us think he is dead until next season.

So Frodo fights Sauron in a dream sequence. No one really knows what the fuck happens because I stopped paying attention at this point but Frodo wins. But he doesn’t. Oh and Sauron took Gandalfs magic.

[Mace]

I don't know if it was here or another forum, but someone pointed out recently that GoT was a new and different thing. That's why it got big -well, that and the fact it was well executed.

Rafe and his crew seem to have picked out the parts of the storyline they like and gone with those -as well as amplifying stuff that resonates with them. They seem to have ignored what made Wheel of Time different from other stories, what gave it its' charm.

That is the hammer on the nail statement. This, what made wheel of time so good as book, , above LotR despite having more flaws than LotR which is a literary masterpiece, and also better than GoT - was it's charm.

Those show runners sucked the charm and the punch out of it.. thewonder of the power, it's gender distinctiveness, the dragon reborn, ta'veren, the main characters, even the charm of Nynaeve and Egween

With nynaeve blasting off like that, her jouenry overcoming her block, and the incredible things she does will be diminished. That Nynaeve was as strong as one of the forsaken n was an incredible revelation, that made her the strongest current timeline saidar channeler around.. and that moment is special because you odnt' see that capacity before then.

As for the forsaken, the weight of the dark one, the winter extending un-naturally for starters is all ommitted, it chips awayy , to be substituted by more regular fantasy trope behaviour. And we all know there is much more we can level.

Looking at the language, people have defended the use of things like 'piss in your mouth and tell you its raining' or 'shite' as being more modern and to some degree I understand that. The WoT swearing worked for the story and if you listen to Kramer & Reading reading the audio books, they put the right emphasis on the WoT swears to make it sound offensive. It's a really small part of world building, you don't need to explain why 'Blood and Ashes' is offensive -or some of the many other unique things RJ put in there, if you have decent actors delivering the lines.

As a young reader, i soon realised those were that world's version of swearing, and it actually made me realise a few things about terms and how we use them. It made the world at least feel different , like it truly was different cultures.

now the diversity race issue. That was a shame. Tar Valon is marked by being this epic multi-cultural centre here people from all different parts of the world meet, but most other places have a racial homogeny - which makes sense, our world does, this is how it is ..even if there was some mixing and occasional mixing, it just produces "rare"exceptions.. but you can tell a person from their looks where they are plays a huge role

"coppery skinned " Domani
"Tall, red/blond/lightbrown" haired Aiel
"slight, pale, dark haired/eyes" Cairhien
"dark skinned, bejewelled" sea folk
"smooth chested, well oiled bearded" Tairen
"high cheekboned, tilted eyed" Saldean

Sigh, they didn't even try. However, saying that, the main cast preformed brilliantly. Exception for Perrin though, but they gave him nothing really.. Cutting out Elysas Machera, then the changed whitecloak scene that has Egwene do all the heroics....
Matt is darkened a lot more, but some of the charm does come out.. i think the actor did a brilliant job - but the tone of matt is very different.. he's still a kid, despite being adult aged, in the books - doesn't want to do work, chores or take responsibility, but liek all good two rivers folk, he does what he has to do, does teh chores if always complaining, and would do his job - not in the Congar/Coplin or Cenn Bruie manner, but more like you and I when we were teens and didn't want to do all those heavy chores. PErrin and Rand are the responsible types who can be a bit devious themselves, but obviously well trained by their parents.. Matt's just a rascal.

The growth and development of the characters is one of the best in any work of fantasy. Jordan takes the time on these characters, and their growth is evident.. this is not easy to do, and almost impossible to do well. But he does it, the power creep in all of them feels justified despite their young age. The plot also provides for the super saiyan moments quite well, Matt having memories of his previous lives, or is it the old blood or are they the same thing? AT what point did you realisethat some of Rand's wonder moments were actually his Lews Therin memories taking over.

Did the Dark one's touch on the pattern actually in weird way make it possible to give Rand and his Ta'veeren friends the knowledge they needed to actually be victorioius in those encounters and situations that would have otherwise defeated him.

Everything is so meticulous - and these guys just sweep in and change this and that and think they can have a coherent story that is as good as or enarly as ogod (or maybe some of them thought even better than the book /rolleyes)


Sigh.. I get it they went for a supposedly "darker" portrayal -but they didn't need to change the script to make it so, there is enough in Jordan's work, to make it scarier than the narrative appears to convey, without changing a thing. and yet still be charming. That fantasy lost in the wilderness feel, it's just not there.. those who made Shannara chornicles capture that better despite that shows numerous short comings.. and Wheel of Time is a a better epic fantasy.

Having Rand and Egwene banging spoiled their relationship for me. I think it's going to have implications further down the road. For one thing, it will spoil the charm of the igloo scene if Rand has some experience. As to Lan and Nynaeve again having them sleep together so soon spoils the whole 'I will hate the man you choose' speech.

They backed the wrong horse when it came to heading up the project, Wheel of Time should have been top tier TV. Instead we got half arsed story telling and Xena level production.

Tell me about it.. the Igloo experience made me gape - Rand was a virgin until then.. and it made it utterly charming that he wanted to marry the girl straight away - i laugh now and was embarrassed about it for years, but now it's cute - this was so me a few years ago on my first.

These experience actually counter the more aggressive imagery Jordan's narrative of Rand puts in your mind, I know he mentions these moments for Rand, they make him feel and seem so much more likeable and human, and you can sympathise with irritation and harshness at the nobles he has to deal with - and things like this are brought out far more powerfully visually, because you don't have blocks of text taking you through every interaction and it's meaning which can sometimes bury the tone of the main character. Who is young and actually dealing with this quite well.


Rand's role is TOUGH to play if they followed the book properly, probably one of the hardest, because you have to both convey likeablity through expression, reactions, that should make it clear what he thinks and characterise his phrases, while at the same time appear hard at the right moments when engaging enemies or nobles or ae sedai. It's a challenging role..

But made much easier because most of his role is cut from the series.


Rand in the Eye of the World is the like me moment, that makes it easy to still like the character later on when most of his countenance is hard - the soft moments, boyish moments, innocent moments, quickly remind you of the original Rand, that it is still him. because you had the reference in the Eye of the World.

With that cut, question is are they going to make him a tyrannical male idiot type character, or soften him? or just keep him hard? His speech about "letting Egwene choose what she wants" - Clearly written by females or males who've either been doggy whipped by aggressive fem types or pandering to them... does give me some hope they won't turn him into some chauvinist but equally makes me fear they'd turn him into a 21st century fem activist's idea of what a man should be... all compliant and committed to her ideals, as much as he is committed to her. - which is just not reality ofc for any man in any position of genuine power. and just not what Jordan wrote.

[Xath]

I genuinely liked Siuan and Moiraine together but it felt like token representation. Sophie absolutely knocked it out of the park, even the 'my world' speech -which was totally contrary to Siuan's character. I didn't like Thom and Moiraine in the books. Siuan and Gareth worked as a pairing and it would be a shame to lose that. I suspect that Nynaeve will heal Moiraine instead of Siuan, which was another incredible moment in the books. I wouldn't be surprised if Siuan is killed in the tower coup.

I know people want to see people like them on TV and I don't think its right to demonize those feelings; it needs to be in proportion though.

I don't begrudge that either but then just make your own story don't attach your rewrites to a beloved work. This show would have much less controversy if it didn't have the wheel of time name attached and if we are honest change the names and very few people would connect this to wheel.

[Mace]

I genuinely liked Siuan and Moiraine together but it felt like token representation. Sophie absolutely knocked it out of the park, even the 'my world' speech -which was totally contrary to Siuan's character. I didn't like Thom and Moiraine in the books. Siuan and Gareth worked as a pairing and it would be a shame to lose that. I suspect that Nynaeve will heal Moiraine instead of Siuan, which was another incredible moment in the books. I wouldn't be surprised if Siuan is killed in the tower coup.

I know people want to see people like them on TV and I don't think its right to demonize those feelings; it needs to be in proportion though.

I think the liekability of Moiraine and Rand are brought out better visually. You need to see tehir expressiions and emotions - you don't get thes ame impact describing them.. especially in contrast to waht they do.

ofc it's hard to see that with moiraine always being icily calm.. but Moiraine's perspective is rarely ever given in the book. SHe is mysterious enough for you to guess. Much of the view of her is in the minds of the Emond's Fielders and it paints a very powerful picture of what and how the world views Aes Sedai in general.

But Moiraine's actions speak so loudly and sometimes makes the villagers seem like proper country bumpkins trusting hearsay than actual fact which plays nicely imo. Adds to the complexity too.

Moiraine is a very good character, both alignemnt wise and as a character. but she is what makes the Aes Sedai in the book so mysterious and alluring and also quite distinguished, . you really notice how exceptional Moiraine truly is when you finally meet more of her sisters in the following books and we get to see their characters.

Moiraine with the Wise Ones, is a class above the Salida sisters- Jordan manges it in away that doesn't diminish much of the Ae Sedai...but then the Ae Sedai of the Age of LEgends seema cut above, and i'm not talking about their skill and knoweldge in teh one power. Their character, knowing, but not in secrets "i'm going to manipulate you sort of way", but in a benvolent, i really know what is good and right and I am a champion of it. Moiraine echoes this quite well. And you see enough of it in some of the others like Cadsuane, Siuan etc.

The depth and versatility of his characters, able to convey also society and groups like Ae Sedai or nations with enough character to feel unique is phenomenal coming from one moan (well we know his wife helped a lot - so let's say from one family) They should be bringing all this dtail out, not cutting it.


That scene with Moiraine and Siuan while very well done should not have hpapened, it could have been a flashback moment a memory of friendship and even more intimate moments - i can totally get having a little pillow "play" then talking about the men you would marry one day - without it becoming a full on lesbian thing. Besides I still don't think the kiss means moiraine and Siuan are gay, no matter what fans say, it's like our culture can only accept black and white.


I would have preferred them not to have gone there though. I liked Moiraine in a sort of sex less Gandalf type role. we don't need to know who everyone is sleeping with. Even the main character.. whcihs he is not int eh series.


I just think ti takes away a lot from the book character and not adding sufficeint quality back..

Rosamund Pike does an incredible job, don't fault the acting on the series. Most of the mains were excellent, the fault was not their performance, but rather their written roles.

[Gumble]

And they will learn nothing. It'll get cancelled after S2, and Rafe & friends will go on about how "misogyny killed another great project" and "the internet trolls are why we can't have nice things". They did nothing wrong, it's all the people watching who are at fault.

I'm sure at Amazon its already canceled. They would be touting how great S2 will be and how S3 is already in preparation if Amazon was happy with how S1 ended up.

If you need no other solace, understand that most of the scenes people worry about them messing up, they will never get to.




And, if you ever see any of these people working on shows in the future, you now know ahead of time which ones to avoid.

[Mace]

I'm sure at Amazon its already canceled. They would be touting how great S2 will be and how S3 is already in preparation if Amazon was happy with how S1 ended up.

If you need no other solace, understand that most of the scenes people worry about them messing up, they will never get to.




And, if you ever see any of these people working on shows in the future, you now know ahead of time which ones to avoid.

I'm sad for the cast, they deserved a better production. It was absolutely stunning, that perfectly woke enough by a mile title that literally wrote itself and hands the scenes down perfectly to any film or show maker, could be befall so short of the standard the book set.

You had to actually work at ruining it, and making it mediocre. Oh Rafa's show is alright, even fairly good, but it is not remarkable, and it is certainly not the top tier show that the book is top tier for the genre.

And why? To copoy Game of Thrones, when you had no need to, this series had all of that in it and more including the charm.
Why to make women more powerful and thus be more woke? This book already had an excellent portrayal of women, mixture of races, people groups you name it, even same several same sex hints - you didn't need to make it any more woke.


I listened to the Lord of the Rings commentary - how PJ and crew found themselves faced with the choice of modifying and re-interpreting Tolkein's work, but had too much fear for the man to do so, and chose instead to stick as closely and truly to the source material and it's spirit as possible. They went on to make the best fantasy series of movies and the best adaptation of a fantasy book to date, nearly 3 decades on.

[rhorle]

I'm sure at Amazon its already canceled. They would be touting how great S2 will be and how S3 is already in preparation if Amazon was happy with how S1 ended up.

Season 2 was half way through filming on November 24th. Amazon executives have stated how they like Season 2 that they have seen. With all the issues with the show you don't need to invent things just to further your disdain.

There has been some hints about season 3 getting approval or at least "very close" to approved.

https://wot-prime.fandom.com/wiki/Season_3

[Rennadrel]

I'm sure at Amazon its already canceled. They would be touting how great S2 will be and how S3 is already in preparation if Amazon was happy with how S1 ended up.

If you need no other solace, understand that most of the scenes people worry about them messing up, they will never get to.




And, if you ever see any of these people working on shows in the future, you now know ahead of time which ones to avoid.

Season 2 was greenlit back in like October or November. And they spent 2 years getting season 1 finished. If it gets canned, it'll be before season 2 hits post-production.

[Shadowferal]

"Thom, you're with me. Talmanes, watch the women."
"We have little need of being 'watched,' Matrim," Joline said grumpily.
"Fine," he snapped. "Thom, you're with me. Joline, you watch the soldiers."

Mat has so many quotable lines...

[Mace]

"Thom, you're with me. Talmanes, watch the women."
"We have little need of being 'watched,' Matrim," Joline said grumpily.
"Fine," he snapped. "Thom, you're with me. Joline, you watch the soldiers."

Mat has so many quotable lines...

I know right, the book basically has written the show for you.. you just have to find away to convey the insights the inner dialogues show, and space it correctly.

The director was a push over.. if he knew it couldn't be done in a miserly 8 episodes he should have quit.. Amazon wanted to go cheap on what many reagard as the greatet fantasy epic of modern times - and expected it to do as well as lotR... /scuffs.

They should not try to make it the next GoT or the next LotR, it is WoT, it's it's own thing, unique. I could see them trying to handle Rand's madness like "The Joker" from Batman, that would be a mistake too, the account in the book is it's own thing.

[rhorle]

The director was a push over.. if he knew it couldn't be done in a miserly 8 episodes he should have quit.. Amazon wanted to go cheap on what many reagard as the greatet fantasy epic of modern times - and expected it to do as well as lotR... /scuffs.

Mr. Judkins was part of the project before Amazon agreed to produce the show. It started to come together in 2017 with Amazon not signing on to the project until 2018. Where is it stated that Amazon thought it would do as well as Lord of the Rings? First it was the "next game of thrones" and now it is "the next lord of the rings"? With projections like that there was little chance it would live up to the expectations you are setting.

https://variety.com/2017/tv/news/whe...ny-1202390897/

[Shadowferal]

Women are like goats. It's like . . . Well, reasoning with a woman is like sitting down to a friendly game of dice. Only the woman refuses to acknowledge the basic bloody rules of the game. A man, he'll cheat you - but he'll do it honestly. He'll use loaded dice, so that you think you're losing by chance. And if you aren't clever enough to spot what he's doing, then maybe he deserves to take your coin. And that's that. A woman, though, she'll sit down to that same game and she'll smile, and act like she's going to play. Only when it's her turn to throw, she'll toss a pair of her own dice that are blank on all six sides. Not a single pip showing. She'll inspect the throw, then she'll look up at you and say, 'clearly I just won.' Now, you'll scratch your head and look at the dice. Then you'll look up at her, then down at the dice again 'But there aren't any pips on these dice' you'll say." 'Yes there are,' she'll say. 'And both dice rolled a one.' 'That's exactly the number you need to win,' you'll say. 'What a coincidence,' she'll reply, then begin to scoop up your coins. And you'll sit there, trying to wrap your head 'bout what just happened. And you'll realise something. A pair of ones isn't the winning throw! Not when you threw a six on your turn. That means she needed a pair of twos instead! Excitedly you'll explain what you've discovered. Only then do you know what she'll do?"

"No idea, Mat."

"Then she'll reach over and rub the blank faces of her dice. And then, with a perfectly straight face, she'll say, 'I'm sorry. There was a spot of dirt on the dice. Clearly you'll see they actually came up as twos!' And she'll believe it. She'll bloody believe it!"

"Incredible."

"Only that's not the end of it!"

"I had presumed it wouldn't be Mat."

"She scoops up all of your coins. And then every other wonam in the room will come over and congratulate her on throwing that pair of twos! The more you complain, the more those bloody women will join in the argument. You'll be outnumbered in a moment, and each of those women will explain to you how those dice clearly read twos, and how you really need to stop behaving like a child. Every single flaming one of them will see the twos! even the prudish woman who has hated your woman from birth - since your woman's granny stole the other woman's granny's honeycake recipe when they were both maids - that woman will side against you."

"They're nefarious creatures indeed."

"By the time they're done, you'll be left with no coin, several lists worth of errands to run and what clothing to wear and a splitting headache. You'll sit there and stare at the table and begin to wonder, just maybe, if those dice didn't read twos after all. If only to preserve what's left of your sanity. That's what it's like to reason with a woman, I tell you.

[Mace]

Mr. Judkins was part of the project before Amazon agreed to produce the show. It started to come together in 2017 with Amazon not signing on to the project until 2018. Where is it stated that Amazon thought it would do as well as Lord of the Rings? First it was the "next game of thrones" and now it is "the next lord of the rings"? With projections like that there was little chance it would live up to the expectations you are setting.

https://variety.com/2017/tv/news/whe...ny-1202390897/

I mean GoT, but these types always have super high hopes. I wonder what happens when they sign these projects, do they just provide the money, can the makers also seek additionall finances elsewhere if the main investor doesn't cuff up enough, or does the deal tie them up.. i have no idea.

It sounds like Amazon bought the rights, so i guess controlled everything and let the peole wo were working on it continue.

I have less sympathy for Mr Judkins, the LotR trilogy is a 1178 page book with 576k words in it, and the run time of the 3 films, extended edition was a total of 11.2 hrs. Where they achieved a stunning adaptation of exceptional quality, that did the book proud, with minor differences.

Eye of the World is a 782 page book with 300,147 words (310191 if you add the prologue), rough maths tells you it should have been able to achieve similar quality in 5.83 hours, but he had an extra 2 hrs.. mor than enough time


compare to GoT, who managed to convey the books well enough without changing the story (Martin made minor changes for the show - not an entire retelling).

They expected a world breaking production, without the resources or dedicated enough people on it. This show could have been awesome..

Can you imagine if a Zak Snyder or Joss Whedonhad directed this or aPeter Jackson, having the same level of enthuisasm for the author's work likePJ had for Tolkein.


The people who worked on LOTR were all avid fans of the book too, if you watch the making of, some of those actors in WoT didn't even know of the books (although I can't fault their performance, nor is it really necessary).


He basically cowtowed to activists and inserted their agenda, their fantasy and altered it. The arrogance. People fell in love with RJs work, and he and his wife (and Brandon at the end) worked on this, for nearly two decades, if you go by release dates it's 13 years, and probably a few more years before the start of the series, who knows how long he was writing the different parts of the saga, doing the research etc before culminating.. just the arrogance of these people.

Well, their efforts seem to have produced an average show for an exceptional top of the line book series - what was most stupid at all is how woke they made it, even more woke than unusual when it didn't need to, and it's really just inserting socio-political agenda stuff - totally un-necessary, either that or their fantasies which seem to match quite well

[Smallfruitbat]

He basically cowtowed to activists and inserted their agenda, their fantasy and altered it. The arrogance. People fell in love with RJs work, and he and his wife (and Brandon at the end) worked on this, for nearly two decades, if you go by release dates it's 13 years, and probably a few more years before the start of the series, who knows how long he was writing the different parts of the saga, doing the research etc before culminating.. just the arrogance of these people.

Where I disagree with you is that Rafe cowtowed to the activists. He comes across as an idealogue who *thinks* he is doing the right thing, thinks he is 'improving' the story for the modern audience. He (and probably a group of others) lobbied Amazon to get this made. My experience is this is similar to Dragons Den, you go to them (yes I'm over simplifying) and say we want to make this, they say 'sure we'll give you $Xmillion to do X episodes.' I don't believe he was pushed into making changes to appease the blue-haired Twitter screechers.

In hindsight, it would have been more honest for 'them' to make their own show, tell their own story and not dragged Wheel of Time into it. Unfortunately, they needed to ride someone else' coat tails to get their 'story' aired. It sucks as a book fan, but some people like it. Personally, I don't see them greenlighting anything more. There isn't the buzz about it. There are a few YT channels who are covering it, at least one of whom thought their ship would come in and they would be able to grow their platform by making WoT videos.

[jdbond]

I'm sure at Amazon its already canceled. They would be touting how great S2 will be and how S3 is already in preparation if Amazon was happy with how S1 ended up.


.

Likely not. Shockingly, Amazon is not netflix, nevermind HBO. WoT has pulled great numbers..for them. It might be called mediocre for mainstream channels but Amazon is not "popular", view count wise.

What I see is budget "adjustment". Depending on how much they might make, they might reduce the budget for future seasons. I mean CW does exist. Do it cheap, find select audience and call it a success. You are forgetting who is streaming this show.

Now the audacity to link WoT to GoT is something to behold. Even last season of GoT was way better than this. Did Bezos really want his own GoT? Seriously?

[Mace]

Likely not. Shockingly, Amazon is not netflix, nevermind HBO. WoT has pulled great numbers..for them. It might be called mediocre for mainstream channels but Amazon is not "popular", view count wise.

What I see is budget "adjustment". Depending on how much they might make, they might reduce the budget for future seasons. I mean CW does exist. Do it cheap, find select audience and call it a success. You are forgetting who is streaming this show.

Now the audacity to link WoT to GoT is something to behold. Even last season of GoT was way better than this. Did Bezos really want his own GoT? Seriously?

I wouldn't bank anything on that. They've been axing more of late. Dunno why, they've not had any financial difficulties at all during the pandemic, in fact, the opposite.

[Xath]

Relistening to Eye for the umpteenth time and one of the first things Rand remarks on upon entering Camelyn is how there dark and pale skin colors je has never seen before lending a lot of credence to Two Rivers folk being pretty universally farmers tanned with dark hair. The only things that distinguished Rand from the rest being height eye and hair color. Almost like painting a giant neon sign over a person isn't intended you know with 3 Ta'veren and likely the reincarnation of LPD all being born in the same small town within a year of the dragon.Dragon. Kind of seems like the pattern might just maybe be creating a ton of noise to hide the dragon.

Also kind of gets rid of the sense of discovery of people so different from themselves if they live in a village that looks like a Manhattan block in terms of genetic diversity. Also gets rid if the impressivenes of the tower of all cultures more or less working together if that's the norm as well as the feeling of a fractured whole.

[Mace]

Relistening to Eye for the umpteenth time and one of the first things Rand remarks on upon entering Camelyn is how there dark and pale skin colors je has never seen before lending a lot of credence to Two Rivers folk being pretty universally farmers tanned with dark hair. The only things that distinguished Rand from the rest being height eye and hair color. Almost like painting a giant neon sign over a person isn't intended you know with 3 Ta'veren and likely the reincarnation of LPD all being born in the same small town within a year of the dragon.Dragon. Kind of seems like the pattern might just maybe be creating a ton of noise to hide the dragon.

Also kind of gets rid of the sense of discovery of people so different from themselves if they live in a village that looks like a Manhattan block in terms of genetic diversity. Also gets rid if the impressiveness of the tower of all cultures more or less working together if that's the norm as well as the feeling of a fractured whole.

Well the Andoran line of queens actually were dark skinned (i.e. black) and some of the noble houses are dark skinned, however the Andoran's are generally pale skinned in description. Not as pale as the Cairhien, but you do have native dark skinned people there, but it's mostly pale skinned.

Caemlyn is a world city so it has people from all over, and for Rand, this is new, because he obviously comes from a village with racial homegeny.

there is recaial homoegeny in this world, there has to be, it's not all "mixed" to be perfectly politically correct. Yet huge urban cetnres like Caemlyn, TarVAlaon are remarked to have a lot more racial diversity, but they are the two biggest population centres in that continent and quite the cross roads of trade routes. which explains its diversity.

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Where I disagree with you is that Rafe cowtowed to the activists. He comes across as an idealogue who *thinks* he is doing the right thing, thinks he is 'improving' the story for the modern audience. He (and probably a group of others) lobbied Amazon to get this made. My experience is this is similar to Dragons Den, you go to them (yes I'm over simplifying) and say we want to make this, they say 'sure we'll give you $Xmillion to do X episodes.' I don't believe he was pushed into making changes to appease the blue-haired Twitter screechers.

In hindsight, it would have been more honest for 'them' to make their own show, tell their own story and not dragged Wheel of Time into it. Unfortunately, they needed to ride someone else' coat tails to get their 'story' aired. It sucks as a book fan, but some people like it. Personally, I don't see them greenlighting anything more. There isn't the buzz about it. There are a few YT channels who are covering it, at least one of whom thought their ship would come in and they would be able to grow their platform by making WoT videos.

Alas, regretably, I fear you are right. The arrogance really, they wanted their own ideas rather than the source materials.

Makes me respect Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh all the more for choosing to do the author's thing, rather than what they think is the right think. You are spot on that they really should have called it something else.

[Beloren]

As bad as the show has been, at least it has been good for some laughs pointing out how bad it was.

A rewrite of the cast introductions from 2019;



Lord of the Rings if it had been rewritten by Rafe;

Gandalf is now the main character. He comes to the Shire to get Frodo to destroy the ring except he doesn’t know who has the ring. The Old Gaffer is a drunk who beats Sam. Pippin accidentally kills his wife when Orcs attack. Merry is now a woman and will be the most powerful kickass member of the group even better than Aragorn.

After they leave the shire they skip Bree. The only location they visit is weathertop where Merry defeats the Ringwraiths while Aragorn watches.

Gandalf is injured and they get separated and Gandalf then goes on a side quest to fuck around with some other Wizards doing a bunch of made up shit. Then he goes to Rivendell and hope the rest show up and we also spend time on a made up storyline about a sad Ranger. But there isn’t enough time to adapt the whole book because they only have 8 episodes.

After that they go straight to Rivendell where Gandalf and Elrond have gay sex. The show is proclaimed a huge success because of this.

They skip Moria because fuck that shit. Gandalf doesn’t fight the Balrog because they spent all the money on wigs and he is still alive.

Boromir says fuck this show it’s so bad I am not being in it anymore and runs off to Gondor.

Then Frodo announces he has the ring which everyone forgot he was even in the show. He and Gandalf ditch everyone else and go through the briar patch to fight Sauron and destroy the ring.

Everyone else, well the women anyway, go to fight the army of Mordor. Merry and Legolas (who is now a woman too) solo the army. Except Legolas dies but Merry brings him back to life.

I forgot Treebead. He is some dude with some sticks tapped to him and a weird wig. You thought he was going to do something but he dies. They probably could have saved some money on wigs and just left him out. Oh but the show runner says he is not dead so why the fuck kill him or at least let us think he is dead until next season.

So Frodo fights Sauron in a dream sequence. No one really knows what the fuck happens because I stopped paying attention at this point but Frodo wins. But he doesn’t. Oh and Sauron took Gandalfs magic.

haha.. probably would have happened.

WoT Questions:

Do you think Matt's memories were those of his past life? those of random people from the pattern? or those from people who visited the the ter'angreal?

I think they are his past lives. all of them. they seem to be mostly focused on fighting , charm - all things that fit his particular attributes.

there are far too many to have visited the ter'angreal, and far too specific to have been random. It seems the focx people did give him back his memories, but not those specific to his current life. They are only in bits because they are filling holes in his current memory.

I wonder if Mat would easily be able to wild a sword as deftly as his former lives have.. he seems to have gained both the knoweldge and all the skills too, even if he didn't remember every detail of those former lives.


2. do you think WoT can continue after the 14 series book? When the main story ends, teh Seanchan are now poised to invade.. it seems that people like Matt and Perrin would have yet larger roles.. I'd also love to see Egwene now fully as Aes Sedai and AMyrlin for a new series. Want to see what happens to Rand too, be nice to see him able to channel now for the entire series without a taint on Saidin and the changes on the world.

3. Did you figure out taht Rand And Lew Therin were the ame person ? Itw as madness that made him think they were two separate people.