Light and Shadow - 10.0 Leak

[username993720]

Again, you are just taking the words and thinking they mean the same thing in the context, even if they have chieftains called warlords, their do not work like the mogu, as a noble, empire-like system.

Warlord is a warlord. Stop trying to interpret it.
The Mogu are hardly noble. Only the Rajani might be.

Not at all, as you see, mogu are not know for being tribal shamans. they are a dignified, civilized, empire, even their thunder king is absed around TITAN magic, something close to allaince races, whoa re titan-made

How the hell are they dignified and civilized? Are you familiar with the Mogu at all? The race that enslaved the Pandaria races and imposed a harsh rule all over the land. They were our enemies.

because they were under demonic bloodlust

Even without it, the Orcs would fight among themselves for resources.

it does not count as the events of draenor are different.

Not that much to be honest. That's why elements of it were incorporated into the Chronicles.
Nonetheless, Orcs are Orcs. Mag'har are no exception.

The dragonmaw only tame protodrakes now, not normal dragons, the horde doesn't get the magnataur(which are totally good people), and good luck trying to tame a kraken, Slavery happen in both factions. trying to say "mogu did slavery so they belong to horde", is pretentious.

The reasons for slavery. Orcs and Mogu derive it from their grandeur syndrome. Humans did it because of what the Orcs did to them.

the elves who absorb demonic magic died, his eyes in wc3 were white, the blood elves who joined the horde were the ones who stayed in azeroth and did not suck fel magic

Can i get a source for that? I don't remember reading about them dying from tapping into demonic sources.
Perhaps his eyes were white back then. But, i believe Reforged fixes it.
The ones that joined had green eyes from the beginning.

see? new lore takes happens all the time.

Never said it doesn't. Though, Zul was villainous from Cataclysm.

So, if ou think some of the night elves thinking then as barbaric somehow negate the fact they were allies back before, have much in common, and now are in different factions? lmao

Blood feud.
They cooperate because of shared druidic interests. Hence, when nature is in peril.

thats why your excuses make no sense, at all.

Trying to shove mogus in the horde ebcause "they might fit more the horde", when they can totally fit the alliance, much better with their EMPIRE, as the horde do not have one, emprires and kingdoms(alliance) is something close.. Humans also praticed slavery, humans also were conquerors, etc etc, the "monsters go to monsters" is outdated, they going to alliance would be much better for the alliance thematic overall, so they don't only have human-like races.

Ogre empire. Troll empire. You just outright lying.

only you think its weird, Zandalari and pandaren were enemies, and they are in the same faction anyway, lordaeron were enemies of the orcish horde and they are horde now under the forsaken.

you limit yourself.

Pandaren fit the Alliance way more than Horde. They were allies of the Night elves once. That they can ally with the Zandalari is weird as hell, as they literally waged war against them.
As for Lordaeron, they're no longer Humans, but Undead. That's a big difference.

[Syegfryed]

Warlord is a warlord. Stop trying to interpret it.
The Mogu are hardly noble. Only the Rajani might be.

Play a bit of MOP and you will see orcs and mogu are not nearly s close as you think they are. Youa re being stubborn, the warlords are not th same.

How the hell are they dignified and civilized? Are you familiar with the Mogu at all? The race that enslaved the Pandaria races and imposed a harsh rule all over the land. They were our enemies.

Do you know about rome? lol, you can be civilized and still have slaves

Even without it, the Orcs would fight among themselves for resources.

They didn't.

And anyone would do that, literally, any race. Did you know that the humans would fight themselves if it was not by the horde? and it was not because the absent of resources, but power and greed, much more like the mogu

The reasons for slavery. Orcs and Mogu derive it from their grandeur syndrome. Humans did it because of what the Orcs did to them.

lets use your own logc:

Slavery is slavery, Stop trying to interpret it.

Can i get a source for that? I don't remember reading about them dying from tapping into demonic sources.

i didn't said they died because they 'tap into demonic soruces" is aid they are all dead, we killed all of then in outland and in the raid.

Perhaps his eyes were white back then. But, i believe Reforged fixes it.
The ones that joined had green eyes from the beginning.

KAel would only be able to suck demon magic after he learned from illidan in outland.

Never said it doesn't.

you are acting like things can't change because "old reasons" despite we having plenty of examples of change

Blood feud.
They cooperate because of shared druidic interests. Hence, when nature is in peril.

you giving the REASONS of why they were ally in the past is completely pointless, night elves and taurens were once allies, they have close thematic, and are in different factions, period.

Ogre empire. Troll empire. You just outright lying.

Are you even reading what you type? how can you call me liar saying the ogre empire is aprt of th horde? lmao

Zandalar "empire"(with a big " ", cause they are a shadow of what they used to be), only now joined the horde.

Pandaren fit the Alliance way more than Horde. They were allies of the Night elves once.

Just like the tauren?

if you didn't notice, a pandaren help build orgrimmar. much closer to the horde.

That they can ally with the Zandalari is weird as hell, as they literally waged war against them.

Isn't weird, things change in the hundred years, youa re just too stubborn focusing on the past, like it is some sort of set system, when we have PLENTY of explanes that go against what you preach.

Mogu make as much sense of joining the horde as joining the alliance, or even more with the alliance with their thematic.

As for Lordaeron, they're no longer Humans, but Undead. That's a big difference.

the "big difference' is hat something happened, just like all other races, something happened, and that something push then to one faction or the other.

[username993720]

Play a bit of MOP and you will see orcs and mogu are not nearly s close as you think they are. Youa re being stubborn, the warlords are not th same.

If you don't provide examples, then it is nothing but empty words.

Do you know about rome? lol, you can be civilized and still have slaves

Speaking of Rome. Ogres, who are based on them, go to the Horde.

They didn't.

And anyone would do that, literally, any race. Did you know that the humans would fight themselves if it was not by the horde? and it was not because the absent of resources, but power and greed, much more like the mogu

"One of the greatest advantages that humanity possesses is their aptitude for team work and leadership, therefore they are also well known for their skills in [Diplomacy]. Their leaders proposed forming the Alliance, and even ordinary citizens know that the right choice of words means the difference between leaving a good impression and leaving a great one."

lets use your own logc:

Slavery is slavery, Stop trying to interpret it.

Touché.

Explain how the Warlords differ?

i didn't said they died because they 'tap into demonic soruces" is aid they are all dead, we killed all of then in outland and in the raid.

And? What's your point?

KAel would only be able to suck demon magic after he learned from illidan in outland.

Which happened in WC3, prior to the Blood elves' addition.

you are acting like things can't change because "old reasons" despite we having plenty of examples of change

On the contrary. There is a chance for them to go Alliance. For once, the Rajani are different from the other Mogu, as in they are more peaceful and they serve Ra-Den. Moreover, it was said that the Mogu were considered instead of the Dark Iron for allied race.

you giving the REASONS of why they were ally in the past is completely pointless, night elves and taurens were once allies, they have close thematic, and are in different factions, period.

All i'm saying is they didn't find so much as a close kinship, but that they allied due to shared interests.

Are you even reading what you type? how can you call me liar saying the ogre empire is aprt of th horde? lmao

"After their deaths and arrival in Azeroth, the Stonemaul joined the Horde by the will of Overlord Geya'rah".

Zandalar "empire"(with a big " ", cause they are a shadow of what they used to be), only now joined the horde.

You always come up with excuses.
Is the Mogu empire as big and strong as they once were? It's not an issue whatsoever, because in all cases only a contingent join the factions.

Just like the tauren?

Nope.
"Before the night elves were addicted to arcane magic and summoned the Burning Legion to Azeroth, the pandaren were a close ally to the night elves. Some of them even lived with the night elves and witnessed the power of the Well of Eternity."
That's the difference. One is a very close ally, the other is due to temporary mutual interests.

if you didn't notice, a pandaren help build orgrimmar. much closer to the horde.

Not really. Chen is neutral and he's just one Pandaren. Meanwhile, he also had ties with the Ironforge Dwarves and was considered of friend of Ironforge.
The fact that Pandaren were close ally of the Night elves and sworn enemies of the Zandalari puts them in a much better place in the Alliance. Not to mention the bond they share with Ironforge Dwarves...

Isn't weird, things change in the hundred years, youa re just too stubborn focusing on the past, like it is some sort of set system, when we have PLENTY of explanes that go against what you preach.

Are you aware that the Zandalari are considered boogymen in Pandaren lore and stories about them are used to frighten their children? They don't have a good view on Trolls.

Mogu make as much sense of joining the horde as joining the alliance, or even more with the alliance with their thematic.

No, actually. Having an old ally in a specific faction raises their chances to join that faction.
What thematic are you talking about?

"To be mogu is to rule. It is why we were created. Our words are laced with power! Those who do not bend to our will must be broken by our strength. There is no strength without unity. There is no unity without obedience. To obey your Emperor and demand obedience of your subjects is the natural order. When you fight amongst yourselves you fight against your very nature. There is an order to this world, a strength that flows from your emperor down to the very stones of the earth. Do not forget this. Together our voices shall echo across the land like the clap of a thunder before a storm. You are that storm! Rise mogu! And reclaim your birthright as rightful rulers of this land!”

"Proud, hateful, and powerful both physically and magically, the mogu are the foremost enemies of the pandaren."

"Possessed of immense size and strength, the mogu built an empire based on might, in which the weak – other races – were subjugated, and the strong – always mogu – ascended to power."

"In many ways, the mogu are based on brutal strength and terrible cunning. Even with powerful magic at their disposal, the mogu often preferred to use slaves to build their massive monuments. Enslaved humanoids were marked with branding irons. Forged of iron and imbued with spells of subjugation and pain, manacles with inward-facing spikes were forced onto the slave races of the mogu. The blood of many mogu slaves were shed with a bone whip fashioned from the spine of some large and ancient creature. An anatomical dummy of a pandaren was used to document torture techniques."

"The mogu empire was a meritocracy as well as an absolute monarchy/dictatorship, where the previous regime and/or dynasty must be overpowered and executed. As a part of mogu culture, when a clan's leader is killed, it is customary for rivals to immediately murder his family and thus exterminate the clan lineage forever."

"The conquest by the Mogu in Pandaria resembles the Mongol conquest of China."

Looks like Orcish Horde to me.

the "big difference' is hat something happened, just like all other races, something happened, and that something push then to one faction or the other.

If they were still Humans, they wouldn't have allied with the Horde.

[Syegfryed]

If you don't provide examples, then it is nothing but empty words.

Come to me, when the mogu are a group of tribal, shamanistic people. then we willa gre that mogu are like orcs.

Speaking of Rome. Ogres, who are based on them, go to the Horde.

Ogres are not an empire anymore, they are divided in clans now, like the stonemaul, bad example

"One of the greatest advantages that humanity possesses is their aptitude for team work and leadership, therefore they are also well known for their skills in [Diplomacy]. Their leaders proposed forming the Alliance, and even ordinary citizens know that the right choice of words means the difference between leaving a good impression and leaving a great one."

This means jackshit on what i said, The human kingdoms would fight each other if it was not by the horde, including guilneas and other kingdoms tried to absorb stormwind, and Lordaeron didn't let then do it, so again, bad take

On the contrary. There is a chance for them to go Alliance. For once, the Rajani are different from the other Mogu, as in they are more peaceful and they serve Ra-Den. Moreover, it was said that the Mogu were considered instead of the Dark Iron for allied race.

The rajadi are the same as mogu, just more plain.

"After their deaths and arrival in Azeroth, the Stonemaul joined the Horde by the will of Overlord Geya'rah".

Stonemaul clan is not an ogre empire, lmao

You always come up with excuses.

pot meets kettle

Nope.

Taurens were allied with the night elves, they share culture/thematic
Pandarens were allied with night elves

Same shit.

Not really. Chen is neutral and he's just one Pandaren. Meanwhile, he also had ties with the Ironforge Dwarves and was considered of friend of Ironforge.

Ironforge did not exist in Wc3, he is one pandaren but we are not talking about quantity here

Açll the shit of pandarens being night elf allies, is somethign that was created later, exactly the point of new things are add in the lore to explain plot points

Are you aware that the Zandalari are considered boogymen in Pandaren lore and stories about them are used to frighten their children? They don't have a good view on Trolls.

And this means jackshit because things change, new allies are formed, old hatred forgeted, enw ones are formed, again, youa re too limited to the past.

By your logic, blood elves would not join the horde, neither taurens, alliance would not accept worgens, and draeneis, etc, but they did create new lore to fit then, they even did a big retcon to introduce draenei

No, actually. Having an old ally in a specific faction raises their chances to join that faction.

Just like blood elves were allied with humans, dwarves and gnomes and they still went in the horde

But sure, keep thinking something that happened hundred//thousand years ago will hold any water now.

"To be mogu is to rule. It is why we were created.

Not orc

"The mogu empire was a meritocracy as well as an absolute monarchy/dictatorship, where the previous regime and/or dynasty must be overpowered and executed. As a part of mogu culture, when a clan's leader is killed, it is customary for rivals to immediately murder his family and thus exterminate the clan lineage forever."

DEFINTLY not orc

Looks like Orcish Horde to me.

It don'tt, only if you have the completely wrong idea of orcs, which seems like it is the case

The only similarity between the two is that they are a race of physically strong people, and somehow have "clans"(even whent heya re diferent) like, the quotes you made literally says they are are based around monarchy, the dynasty is close to the human houses, like Wyrm house, menethil house..

Also, another thing to rain in your parade, do you know the mogu are a titan-forged race right? and do you know where the tita-forged races are? do you know the name of the faction that have then?

[TheRevenantHero]

Then, why can't i actually play as one?



Then, explain the difference in abilities.



You haven't been following the story lately, have you?



Go ahead and hop on a Hunter in-game. Tell me if you play a Dark Ranger.



You're not just wrong, you are blatantly lying.

I play a dark ranger all the time. They're just called hunters in game. Dark rangers don't have different abilities than hunters. Hilarious how you accuse me of not following the story when it's clear you have absolutely no idea what the lore is. Go back and click on the wowpedia link I provided. It will explain how ranger is literally just what quel'dorei call hunters much like how draenei call paladins vindicators.

[Archmage Alodi]

With so many annoying and dumb features, it's safe to assume this one is the real leak.

[username993720]

Come to me, when the mogu are a group of tribal, shamanistic people. then we willa gre that mogu are like orcs.

And, how do they differ from Ogres, who are part of the Horde?

Ogres are not an empire anymore, they are divided in clans now, like the stonemaul, bad example

Doesn't matter. Mogu are not an empire anymore either. That's the fate of every empire

This means jackshit on what i said, The human kingdoms would fight each other if it was not by the horde, including guilneas and other kingdoms tried to absorb stormwind, and Lordaeron didn't let then do it, so again, bad take

They tried to annex stormwind? Can i get a source for that?

The rajadi are the same as mogu, just more plain.

More plain? What are they, peasants or something? they're not plainer, they're calmer.

Stonemaul clan is not an ogre empire, lmao

Neither are the Rajani. Both were part of an Empire.

pot meets kettle

See above.

Taurens were allied with the night elves, they share culture/thematic
Pandarens were allied with night elves

Same shit.

The extent is different. Pandaren are very asiatic and so are the Night elves. Tauren, as a native-american-based race, don't share the same way of life, just views on the natural world.

Ironforge did not exist in Wc3

Get your facts straight. It was built even before the War of the Three Hammers.

he is one pandaren but we are not talking about quantity here

Of course we are. One character does not always speak for the entire race.

Açll the shit of pandarens being night elf allies, is somethign that was created later, exactly the point of new things are add in the lore to explain plot points

Like the Tauren?
Everything is new if we look from a certain perspective.

And this means jackshit because things change, new allies are formed, old hatred forgeted, enw ones are formed, again, youa re too limited to the past.

By your logic, blood elves would not join the horde, neither taurens, alliance would not accept worgens, and draeneis, etc, but they did create new lore to fit then, they even did a big retcon to introduce draenei

Unlike those races, the Pandaren didn't change. They didn't become more tribal or more evil.

Just like blood elves were allied with humans, dwarves and gnomes and they still went in the horde

But sure, keep thinking something that happened hundred//thousand years ago will hold any water now.

That's why, unlike other races, there have actually been several attempts to bring them back to the Alliance (see: Varian, MoP. Alleria, Void elves).

Not orc

Not Orc? Didn't they try to conquer Azeroth? In both realities?

DEFINTLY not orc

Arguably. But it fits the ruthlessness and savagery of the Horde.

It don'tt, only if you have the completely wrong idea of orcs, which seems like it is the case

Oh, yes. I forgot. They are peace-loving hippies...

The only similarity between the two is that they are a race of physically strong people, and somehow have "clans"(even whent heya re diferent) like, the quotes you made literally says they are are based around monarchy, the dynasty is close to the human houses, like Wyrm house, menethil house..

Dynasties are a chinese thing. Houses are a european thing.

Also, another thing to rain in your parade, do you know the mogu are a titan-forged race right? and do you know where the tita-forged races are? do you know the name of the faction that have then?

I know that. And i have pointed out how it works in favor of an Alliance partnership. But, let me remind you how Orcs and Ogres are also Titanforged.

Dark rangers don't have different abilities than hunters.

Go check Warcraft 3 (Dark Ranger), Heroes of the Storm (Sylvanas), and Sylvanas (Sanctum of Domination).
Also, check the Battle for Azeroth, Reckoning, Shadowlands and Sylvanas vs Tyrande cinematics.
I want you to list the abilities present there and tell me how many of them are in the Hunter class.

[Syegfryed]

And, how do they differ from Ogres, who are part of the Horde?

moving goalposts aren't we? ogres are not even playable, and ye, they are different Mogu

They tried to annex stormwind? Can i get a source for that?

google it and find the wiki

The extent is different. Pandaren are very asiatic and so are the Night elves. Tauren, as a native-american-based race, don't share the same way of life, just views on the natural world.

it doesn't matter, they were allies and share a theme, yet, are in the opposite factions

Get your facts straight. It was built even before the War of the Three Hammers.

Irongforge and pandaren relationship was not something created for the Wc3 game, it is something created later.

Of course we are. One character does not always speak for the entire race.

then the night elf group you talked early don't talk for the entire race

Like the Tauren?
Everything is new if we look from a certain perspective.

yes, like tauren, you are starting to see

Unlike those races, the Pandaren didn't change. They didn't become more tribal or more evil.

if you think a race need to be more evil to join the horde this speak volumes of what your ignorance aboutt he faction is.

Pandaren ARE a group of shamanistic people.

Not Orc? Didn't they try to conquer Azeroth? In both realities?

no not orc, you are distorting things, as you know, every race now and then try to conquer azeroth.

Arguably. But it fits the ruthlessness and savagery of the Horde.

only if you don't know how the horde works

Oh, yes. I forgot. They are peace-loving hippies...

trying a sarcasm like this only shows you indeed, know next to nothing about orcs and are using surface level information while ignoring key points to fit your agenda.

"orcs tried to conquer azeroth like the mogu, they are the same!" is a fallacy afterall

Dynasties are a chinese thing. Houses are a european thing.

it doesn't matter, they are close alike, are things the orcs don't have.

I know that. And i have pointed out how it works in favor of an Alliance partnership. But, let me remind you how Orcs and Ogres are also Titanforged.

they aren't titan-forged.

Grond was created by agrammar but he was not an titan construct, as he was made of elemental energies who were affected by the living energy of the sporemound.

Not a curse of flesh.

[TheRevenantHero]

And, how do they differ from Ogres, who are part of the Horde?



Doesn't matter. Mogu are not an empire anymore either. That's the fate of every empire



They tried to annex stormwind? Can i get a source for that?



More plain? What are they, peasants or something? they're not plainer, they're calmer.



Neither are the Rajani. Both were part of an Empire.



See above.



The extent is different. Pandaren are very asiatic and so are the Night elves. Tauren, as a native-american-based race, don't share the same way of life, just views on the natural world.



Get your facts straight. It was built even before the War of the Three Hammers.



Of course we are. One character does not always speak for the entire race.



Like the Tauren?
Everything is new if we look from a certain perspective.



Unlike those races, the Pandaren didn't change. They didn't become more tribal or more evil.



That's why, unlike other races, there have actually been several attempts to bring them back to the Alliance (see: Varian, MoP. Alleria, Void elves).



Not Orc? Didn't they try to conquer Azeroth? In both realities?



Arguably. But it fits the ruthlessness and savagery of the Horde.



Oh, yes. I forgot. They are peace-loving hippies...



Dynasties are a chinese thing. Houses are a european thing.



I know that. And i have pointed out how it works in favor of an Alliance partnership. But, let me remind you how Orcs and Ogres are also Titanforged.



Go check Warcraft 3 (Dark Ranger), Heroes of the Storm (Sylvanas), and Sylvanas (Sanctum of Domination).
Also, check the Battle for Azeroth, Reckoning, Shadowlands and Sylvanas vs Tyrande cinematics.
I want you to list the abilities present there and tell me how many of them are in the Hunter class.

Heroes of the Storm is 100% irrelevant. It's a completely different game that has nothing to do with WoW. She had ONE unique spell in WC3, not enough to make an entire new class. In Sanctum of Domination, she is empowered by the Jailer and given new powers by him.

And every other example you listed are Sylvanas being given powers by the Jailer. All other dark rangers don't have any unique spells. Whether you like it or not, dark rangers and hunters are 100% the same.

[username993720]

moving goalposts aren't we? ogres are not even playable, and ye, they are different Mogu

It doesn't matter, they are part of the Horde.
You claimed empires do not fit with the Horde, yet you already have 2 that are part of former empires (3 if you count the Pandaren).
If they are different, please do explain.

google it and find the wiki

You said it. You link it here.

it doesn't matter, they were allies and share a theme, yet, are in the opposite factions

We "ally" every expansion with the other faction to defeat the bad guy. That's the nature of their relation, a threat to the natural world.

Irongforge and pandaren relationship was not something created for the Wc3 game, it is something created later.

then the night elf group you talked early don't talk for the entire race

What Night elf group?
And notice how you said group and not individual.

yes, like tauren, you are starting to see

So, let's just say nothing is set in stone and abandon this discussion. Because if nothing is grounded, then we can claim whatever the fuck we want.

Pandaren ARE a group of shamanistic people.

So are Goblins. They are not tribal, however.

no not orc, you are distorting things, as you know, every race now and then try to conquer azeroth.

Every race?
That's a major part of the Orcs' background. "We will be conquerors" reminds you anything?

only if you don't know how the horde works

How does the Horde work?
Did they not cause massive destruction and death under Garrosh and Sylvanas?

trying a sarcasm like this only shows you indeed, know next to nothing about orcs and are using surface level information while ignoring key points to fit your agenda.

"orcs tried to conquer azeroth like the mogu, they are the same!" is a fallacy afterall

Dude. Do you play a flowerpicker clan Orc or something? Everybody knows Orcs are savage and brutal, corrupted or not.

it doesn't matter, they are close alike, are things the orcs don't have.

No? They do not pass down from father to child? Grommash to Garrosh? Durotan to Thrall?

they aren't titan-forged.

Grond was created by agrammar but he was not an titan construct, as he was made of elemental energies who were affected by the living energy of the sporemound.

Not a curse of flesh.

Not all Titanforged are metallic. Some are rock, like the Earthen.
Second of all, since Draenor doesn't have an Old God, it would make sense that it wouldn't be by the Curse of Flesh.
They are as much Titanforged as Humans that are descended from Vrykul.

Heroes of the Storm is 100% irrelevant. It's a completely different game that has nothing to do with WoW.

Really? Funny you say that, because we just got a few abilities in-game from there.

She had ONE unique spell in WC3, not enough to make an entire new class.

Black Arrow? Not in the Hunter.
Life Drain? Not in the Hunter.
Silence (AoE)? Not in the Hunter.
Charm? Not in the Hunter.

In Sanctum of Domination, she is empowered by the Jailer and given new powers by him.

She's still a Dark Ranger through and through.
If you can't notice it, it's an attempt to expand the Dark Ranger repertoire. A hint of things to come.

And every other example you listed are Sylvanas being given powers by the Jailer. All other dark rangers don't have any unique spells. Whether you like it or not, dark rangers and hunters are 100% the same.

Sylvanas is the benchmark for Dark Rangers. That's what you don't get.

[Syegfryed]

It doesn't matter, they are part of the Horde.

"it doesn't matter"

If they are different, please do explain.

Read their wiki pages, im not going to waste time explaining something to someone who will say it doesn't matter or distort things.

I find it funny when you drop a throway image and think its means something, or "refute" something. Try to find ironforge and pandarens in the wc3 game.

So, let's just say nothing is set in stone and abandon this discussion. Because if nothing is grounded, then we can claim whatever the fuck we want.

we can claim that the Mogu can go where blizzards wants then to go, what would be best for the narrative/sales

Trying to pretend mogu are like orcs and they should go to horde is bullshit, as, they are not like orcs.

Of course, they can, go to horde, is a possibility, but your arguments are awful, and can be aplied to the other faction as well

So are Goblins. They are not tribal, however.

Goblins are still shamanistic, even by the "wrong means" and they always had close relantionship with orcs, and the other horde races, not like some bullshit of thousand years ago.

That's a major part of the Orcs' background. "We will be conquerors" reminds you anything?

Thats not? you are cherrypicking shit to fit your argumment.

"we will be conquerers" was something the draenor orcs, of another timeline , attempt after being deceived by Garrosh, orcs lived hundreds of years in peace with each other before the legion CORRUPTING then

You show rly shallow understanding of the races with barely surface knowledge about then.

How does the Horde work?
Did they not cause massive destruction and death under Garrosh and Sylvanas?

if this is your level of thinking please, refrain from saying what should be done with the horde

Dude. Do you play a flowerpicker clan Orc or something? Everybody knows Orcs are savage and brutal, corrupted or not.

Tell me you don't know about orcs and their clans without saying you don't

No? They do not pass down from father to child? Grommash to Garrosh? Durotan to Thrall?

Again witht he cherrypicking? are you rly for real? you cite half a dozen of things, and the only thing you focus is this?

And no, its not necessary to pass from ''father to child", it only happens if the "child" is worthy and strong, there is many ways to be chieftain, Orgrin took control of the blackrock clan by killing blackhand. Fenris wolfbrother was a frostwolf but he rise to be chieftain of the thunderlord because he showed his skills.

And they never "killed the family and the children of the enemy clan" like the Mogu did, The chieftain isn't much like the mogu warlords. So yeah, you have no idea how orcs work.

Not all Titanforged are metallic. Some are rock, like the Earthen.

Now that is something that doesn't matter.

Second of all, since Draenor doesn't have an Old God, it would make sense that it wouldn't be by the Curse of Flesh.
They are as much Titanforged as Humans that are descended from Vrykul.

They aren't titanforged, period.

[username993720]

"it doesn't matter"

Are they not? Do you believe they wouldn't be added?

Read their wiki pages, im not going to waste time explaining something to someone who will say it doesn't matter or distort things.

Just link the fucking thing here. Jeez...

we can claim that the Mogu can go where blizzards wants then to go, what would be best for the narrative/sales

Trying to pretend mogu are like orcs and they should go to horde is bullshit, as, they are not like orcs.

Of course, they can, go to horde, is a possibility, but your arguments are awful, and can be aplied to the other faction as well

Blizzard is indeed the Arbiter.
Yet, you have to explain how they differ from Orcs.

Goblins are still shamanistic, even by the "wrong means"

Nice joke.

and they always had close relantionship with orcs, and the other horde races,

Funny you say that after you ramblings about Goblins possibly being an Alliance race.

not like some bullshit of thousand years ago.

Which, still stands today.

Thats not? you are cherrypicking shit to fit your argumment.

"we will be conquerers" was something the draenor orcs, of another timeline , attempt after being deceived by Garrosh, orcs lived hundreds of years in peace with each other before the legion CORRUPTING then

You show rly shallow understanding of the races with barely surface knowledge about then.

Again, you are trying to ommite the Mag'har from the Orcish race. That's not going to happen. And they just show you how savage the Orcs are WITHOUT demonic corruption. Garrosh merely persuaded them. They were savage from the beginning. That's why Draenor is a savage place, with savage creatures. Have you even seen this trailer and series?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OYueIdI_2L0

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LG3RVC...3y0Ua45EJlWRBw

if this is your level of thinking please, refrain from saying what should be done with the horde

My level of thinking? What are you trying to make the Horde into? A bunch of wussies?

Tell me you don't know about orcs and their clans without saying you don't

At this point, you are showing to believe that they are nothing but gentle giants.

And no, its not necessary to pass from ''father to child", it only happens if the "child" is worthy and strong

Pretty much the values Mogu live by.

They aren't titanforged, period.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Tit...d#Titan-forged

Voila! You are mistaken.

[Syegfryed]

Are they not? Do you believe they wouldn't be added?

Ogre empire is not part of the horde, period.

Just link the fucking thing here. Jeez...

You can't find the wow wiki? lol

Nice joke.

What is the joke? goblins are shamans, you can even pick that clas??

Funny you say that after you ramblings about Goblins possibly being an Alliance race.

Because is true, they were going to be neutral.

This is to show you, it things change.

Which, still stands today.

Not rly, if you play in BfA the mogu were enemies of the horde and zandalar

Again, you are trying to ommite the Mag'har from the Orcish race. That's not going to happen.

No, you are simple trying to distort the argument, the maghar that joined the horde are a group of orcs 30 YEARS after the events of WoD and they were not the iron horde. yet youa re trying to put then in the same bag.

My level of thinking? What are you trying to make the Horde into? A bunch of wussies?

At this point, you are showing to believe that they are nothing but gentle giants.

Like i sai,d keep telling me how you don't know about the horde and the orcs

IT funny that you think there is only two options, either bloodthirst monsters or "gentle giants"

Pretty much the values Mogu live by.

Yet, the weak son would still lead, by Mogu laws, you know, unless his entire family is killed by another warlord.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Tit...d#Titan-forged

Voila! You are mistaken.

How im mistaken if the link literally confirm they are not titan-forged? lmao

[threads]

Heroes of the Storm is 100% irrelevant. It's a completely different game that has nothing to do with WoW. She had ONE unique spell in WC3, not enough to make an entire new class. In Sanctum of Domination, she is empowered by the Jailer and given new powers by him.

And every other example you listed are Sylvanas being given powers by the Jailer. All other dark rangers don't have any unique spells. Whether you like it or not, dark rangers and hunters are 100% the same.

hunters dont have any shadow or plague abilities like the npc dark rangers in bfa so ur 100% wrong actually

[TheRevenantHero]

hunters dont have any shadow or plague abilities like the npc dark rangers in bfa so ur 100% wrong actually

Dark ranger npcs don't have shadow and plague abilities either. You're thinking of death knights. Try again.

- - - Updated - - -

It doesn't matter, they are part of the Horde.
You claimed empires do not fit with the Horde, yet you already have 2 that are part of former empires (3 if you count the Pandaren).
If they are different, please do explain.



You said it. You link it here.



We "ally" every expansion with the other faction to defeat the bad guy. That's the nature of their relation, a threat to the natural world.







What Night elf group?
And notice how you said group and not individual.



So, let's just say nothing is set in stone and abandon this discussion. Because if nothing is grounded, then we can claim whatever the fuck we want.



So are Goblins. They are not tribal, however.



Every race?
That's a major part of the Orcs' background. "We will be conquerors" reminds you anything?



How does the Horde work?
Did they not cause massive destruction and death under Garrosh and Sylvanas?



Dude. Do you play a flowerpicker clan Orc or something? Everybody knows Orcs are savage and brutal, corrupted or not.



No? They do not pass down from father to child? Grommash to Garrosh? Durotan to Thrall?



Not all Titanforged are metallic. Some are rock, like the Earthen.
Second of all, since Draenor doesn't have an Old God, it would make sense that it wouldn't be by the Curse of Flesh.
They are as much Titanforged as Humans that are descended from Vrykul.



Really? Funny you say that, because we just got a few abilities in-game from there.



Black Arrow? Not in the Hunter.
Life Drain? Not in the Hunter.
Silence (AoE)? Not in the Hunter.
Charm? Not in the Hunter.



She's still a Dark Ranger through and through.
If you can't notice it, it's an attempt to expand the Dark Ranger repertoire. A hint of things to come.



Sylvanas is the benchmark for Dark Rangers. That's what you don't get.

Sylvanas has her powers both from the Jailer and because she's a banshee. She is 100% unique in her powers. Also, hunters had black arrow for quite a long time. So you can try and rant and rave about how dark rangers can totally be a class but you'll be wrong every time.

[threads]

Dark ranger npcs don't have shadow and plague abilities either. You're thinking of death knights. Try again.

- - - Updated - - -



Sylvanas has her powers both from the Jailer and because she's a banshee. She is 100% unique in her powers. Also, hunters had black arrow for quite a long time. So you can try and rant and rave about how dark rangers can totally be a class but you'll be wrong every time.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Ranger_Zanra
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Ranger_Thandel

???

[TheRevenantHero]

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Ranger_Zanra
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Ranger_Thandel

???

Plague DIPPED arrows. As in literally anyone who can fire a bow can use them. It's the same as poison dipped arrows.

Shadowburn shot is just an AoE Black Arrow. Ya know....the spell hunters had up until BfA. I guess rogues are spellcasters now since they can do shadow damage too.

[threads]

Plague DIPPED arrows. As in literally anyone who can fire a bow can use them. It's the same as poison dipped arrows.

Shadowburn shot is just an AoE Black Arrow. Ya know....the spell hunters had up until BfA. I guess rogues are spellcasters now since they can do shadow damage too.

whos talking about rogues you said dark ranger npcs dont have plague or shadow abilities and they have both maybe just admit youre wrong

[TheRevenantHero]

whos talking about rogues you said dark ranger npcs dont have plague or shadow abilities and they have both maybe just admit youre wrong

Except I'm not wrong. Plague dipped arrows is not the same as having plague abilities. And shadowburn shot is just an aoe version of a hunter's black arrow. You're being purposely obtuse.

[threads]

Except I'm not wrong. Plague dipped arrows is not the same as having plague abilities. And shadowburn shot is just an aoe version of a hunter's black arrow. You're being purposely obtuse.

black arrow was removed 4 years ago and hunters have neither plague arrows or shadow arrows so they are pretty much not the same at all lol