World of Warcraft: Dragonflight - Developer Twitter Space on April 27

[Statius]

He holds leftist views and isn't afraid to air them out on his streams. People who support insurrection and bigotry seem to feel that this is not fair to them because they get banned for saying that acknowledging the existence of gay people is grooming, for instance, among other things. You can see in this thread how some of them have literally questioned why he hasn't been "canceled".

It's people with reprehensible viewpoints being upset that they don't get gifted a platform to spew those reprehensible viewpoints, so they try to falsely equivocate that those opposed to them are also reprehensible.

Tali is smug, for sure, though. But so is everyone who actually believes whatever they believe, or else they wouldn't believe it

I hold leftist views too. I don't think acknowledging the existence of gay people is grooming. And I dislike Taliesin, among other reasons because he has used ad hominem arguments similar to the one you've just used in order to preemptively shut down any kind of criticism.

[Xilurm]

If you're gonna complain that Viera are too sexualized and they shouldn't exist then you're bad in my book.

[phattsao]

He holds leftist views and isn't afraid to air them out on his streams. People who support insurrection and bigotry seem to feel that this is not fair to them because they get banned for saying that acknowledging the existence of gay people is grooming, for instance, among other things. You can see in this thread how some of them have literally questioned why he hasn't been "canceled".

It's people with reprehensible viewpoints being upset that they don't get gifted a platform to spew those reprehensible viewpoints, so they try to falsely equivocate that those opposed to them are also reprehensible.

Tali is smug, for sure, though. But so is everyone who actually believes whatever they believe, or else they wouldn't believe it

How hard did you cry when you heard Twitter might allow free speech again?

[Ryzek]

I like T&E eventhough I disagree with alot of his takes. I dont have twitter tho so I'll just have to see a transcript or something.

[Niwes]

tbh, does really anyone look at this PR shit after 2-3 weeks ? for wow ? in 2022 ?

heck, this game is nearly dead anyway and with DF they clearly showed they can just do more of the same (even when some lessons learned, i.e. borrowed power). nonetheless wow is imo played by a strict specific target audience. some die hard ppls left, when all others are already out of the door. not sure if we need some Danuser Ion T+E PR marketing crap, that just discussing the same objectives, strictly given by Blizz, again and again.

imo after 2 weeks noone cares about that shit. the reason: ppl care for the game. no PR shit will ever blind many ppls any longer these days, when the game is just cheap „milk the cow“ shit.

in the end of the day, Ion and marketing will realize, after a few weeks, its just a resource and time waste. and cancel it anyway.

[Swnem]

Re-posted from earlier this year.

I don't hate Taliesin. I just think he's being disingenuous.

Prior to Shadowlands I actually liked watching his videos. I kind of thought of him as a cool levelheaded guy with a nuanced perspective on things. I didn't agree with him on everything, but that's fine. I still thought his videos funny and somewhat insightful.

And then I made the mistake of discovering his Twitter profile...

Let me give you a few of his greatest hits.

1. People who are upset about the lack of accountability for Sylvanas are people who come from countries that include the death penalty. In other words, if you want a coherent storyline in a fantasy world where things actually make sense (and where we've killed people for far less than what Sylvanas has done) then you're probably also supporting the death penalty irl.

2. People who don't find it plausible that Sylvanas would be dumb enough to believe that the guy who is literally called the Jailor, who has a fetish for chains and for tormenting souls, will bring freedom to the world tend to be males who because of their privilege are unable to understand just how gullible oppressed women really are. Mind you this was just after the Sanctum of Domination cinematic had been released and prior to the whole split soul narrative was introduced in game so it wasn't part of his argument.

3. If modern players (or at least players who are dissatisfied with the Shadowlands lore) had played Ulduar, they would've hated it. They would have said, "Who the hell are these Keepers? Who are these Old Gods? What's going on? I hate it" and stuff like that. Because the whole thing about titan keepers, Old Gods and what have you, came as far out of left-field as the Jailer, the Eternal Ones, etc.

4. The reason Tyrande didn't kill Sylvanas when she was about to choke her was not actually because Elune withdrew her powers but rather because Tyrande made the choice not to kill her in order to choose renewal instead of vengeance. So the story actually made perfect sense, it's just that people didn't get it.

And so on and so on. If you look at the Twitter profile of Bellular or Nobbel87, they are all pretty chill people talking about the game (for better or worse). Taliesin's twitter profile on the other hand seems to be full of angry tweets labelled against his critics or half-arsed jokes trying to ridicule the same. He seems bent on creating division.

But yes, he does criticize Blizzard from time to time, but like 80% of his time, he's out there criticizing the community or telling them why they're wrong about their criticisms, usually using rhetoric similar to what I've listed in these four examples.

Anyway even before discovering his Twitter profile, I started noticing a pattern in his videos, one where he starts out mentioning the criticism labelled at Blizzard, somewhat agrees with it, but then as his videos progresses turns it on his head and eventually comes out (mostly) in favor of Blizzard and against the critics. This is a clever approach because then afterwards he can say, "Well I did say I disagreed with Blizz about x & y!" even as he spent the majority of the video defending them and attacking their critics.

The moment he finally lost me (and indeed I haven't watched any of his videos since) was during the whole turning women into fruit thing a couple of months ago, where he pretty much said that the people who had a hard time viewing these changes as nothing more than a PR stunt, were obviously #notbelievingsurvivors and therefore not actually supporting the victims of sexual abuse. And I'm like, "Blizzard were the ones doing the cube crawls. Blizzard are the ones being sued. I've never sexually abused anyone in my life!" To quote Michael Douglas from Falling Down, "Now I'm the bad guy? How the Hell did that happen?" :S

Also he seems to be in the habit of getting into fights and arguments with his fellow Youtubers. A couple of years back it was Asmongold, then Accolonn, then Bellular and recently he's even been at odds with Nobbel87, the most chill guy there is. Apparently he also hates mmo-champion and thinks everyone here just wants to rage against the game for seemingly no reason. He's also often rude on stream, gets angry when people don't agree with him and again rants about his fellow Youtubers.

Here's a fine example of Taliesin outright saying that the reason people watch Belluar is not because they like him as a content creator but rather because they like how he shits on WoW: https://files.catbox.moe/cx0tb8.mp4 - apparently he also gets into a fight with some guy in the second half. Bellular has, to the best of my knowledge, never said anything similar about Taliesin or his viewers.

And the problem is once you've seen all of this, you can't really unsee it. Suddenly his bubbly nice-guy attitude on Youtube becomes fake and downright toxic. And for the record I don't dislike Taliesin because I think he's some woke twitter warrior or whatever threatening my vulnerable toxic masculinity and MAGA cap. I'm pretty far left on most issues (and from a country where the death penalty has been abolished for more than a century) and indeed I'd probably agree with Taliesin on a lot of things irl. It's just his personality and his chip on the shoulder attitude and all of the things that I've already described that gets in the way of things.

So no, I'm obviously not going to watch this event.

TLDR: https://files.catbox.moe/cx0tb8.mp4 .

Great post summarising the issue. I have seen those issues, i can also say he was rude in youtube comments to anyone who disagreed with him as well. He is extremely toxic.
I also watched and found their videos funny, but once i was in the receiving end of one such comment i stopped watching them years ago. There was the dispute with Asmon which also confirmed my thoughts on him back then. It's pretty sad to see them advertised on Wowhead too. I never click their videos.

He is toxic and it's sad that WoW devs engage with such a person.
If you want an extremely positive person get Hazelnutty instead. At least she is nice.

[Icecat]

https://files.catbox.moe/cx0tb8.mp4 .

This has always been the worst part of watching Taliesin, dude, even when you try to like his content. I really wish he didn't start shit with other content creators, even when random users provoke him.

I don't mind his somewhat naive positivity toward the game... It's sometimes a conscious effort to put more positive content onto the internet in general, which I can appreciate. But sometimes, he's just as toxic as Asmongold. It was hella cringe watching him pretend to have always played FFXIV too, but I know that's a stressful e-celeb impulse at the end of the day. At least Bellular, for all his flaws as a creator, is upfront about what he has played lol.

It's all just video games at the end of the day, so it doesn't matter too much I guess.

[Niwes]

Re-posted from earlier this year.

I don't hate Taliesin. I just think he's being disingenuous.

Prior to Shadowlands I actually liked watching his videos. I kind of thought of him as a cool levelheaded guy with a nuanced perspective on things. I didn't agree with him on everything, but that's fine. I still thought his videos funny and somewhat insightful.

And then I made the mistake of discovering his Twitter profile...

Let me give you a few of his greatest hits.

1. People who are upset about the lack of accountability for Sylvanas are people who come from countries that include the death penalty. In other words, if you want a coherent storyline in a fantasy world where things actually make sense (and where we've killed people for far less than what Sylvanas has done) then you're probably also supporting the death penalty irl.

2. People who don't find it plausible that Sylvanas would be dumb enough to believe that the guy who is literally called the Jailor, who has a fetish for chains and for tormenting souls, will bring freedom to the world tend to be males who because of their privilege are unable to understand just how gullible oppressed women really are. Mind you this was just after the Sanctum of Domination cinematic had been released and prior to the whole split soul narrative was introduced in game so it wasn't part of his argument.

3. If modern players (or at least players who are dissatisfied with the Shadowlands lore) had played Ulduar, they would've hated it. They would have said, "Who the hell are these Keepers? Who are these Old Gods? What's going on? I hate it" and stuff like that. Because the whole thing about titan keepers, Old Gods and what have you, came as far out of left-field as the Jailer, the Eternal Ones, etc.

4. The reason Tyrande didn't kill Sylvanas when she was about to choke her was not actually because Elune withdrew her powers but rather because Tyrande made the choice not to kill her in order to choose renewal instead of vengeance. So the story actually made perfect sense, it's just that people didn't get it.

And so on and so on. If you look at the Twitter profile of Bellular or Nobbel87, they are all pretty chill people talking about the game (for better or worse). Taliesin's twitter profile on the other hand seems to be full of angry tweets labelled against his critics or half-arsed jokes trying to ridicule the same. He seems bent on creating division.

But yes, he does criticize Blizzard from time to time, but like 80% of his time, he's out there criticizing the community or telling them why they're wrong about their criticisms, usually using rhetoric similar to what I've listed in these four examples.

Anyway even before discovering his Twitter profile, I started noticing a pattern in his videos, one where he starts out mentioning the criticism labelled at Blizzard, somewhat agrees with it, but then as his videos progresses turns it on his head and eventually comes out (mostly) in favor of Blizzard and against the critics. This is a clever approach because then afterwards he can say, "Well I did say I disagreed with Blizz about x & y!" even as he spent the majority of the video defending them and attacking their critics.

The moment he finally lost me (and indeed I haven't watched any of his videos since) was during the whole turning women into fruit thing a couple of months ago, where he pretty much said that the people who had a hard time viewing these changes as nothing more than a PR stunt, were obviously #notbelievingsurvivors and therefore not actually supporting the victims of sexual abuse. And I'm like, "Blizzard were the ones doing the cube crawls. Blizzard are the ones being sued. I've never sexually abused anyone in my life!" To quote Michael Douglas from Falling Down, "Now I'm the bad guy? How the Hell did that happen?" :S

Also he seems to be in the habit of getting into fights and arguments with his fellow Youtubers. A couple of years back it was Asmongold, then Accolonn, then Bellular and recently he's even been at odds with Nobbel87, the most chill guy there is. Apparently he also hates mmo-champion and thinks everyone here just wants to rage against the game for seemingly no reason. He's also often rude on stream, gets angry when people don't agree with him and again rants about his fellow Youtubers.

Here's a fine example of Taliesin outright saying that the reason people watch Belluar is not because they like him as a content creator but rather because they like how he shits on WoW: https://files.catbox.moe/cx0tb8.mp4 - apparently he also gets into a fight with some guy in the second half. Bellular has, to the best of my knowledge, never said anything similar about Taliesin or his viewers.

And the problem is once you've seen all of this, you can't really unsee it. Suddenly his bubbly nice-guy attitude on Youtube becomes fake and downright toxic. And for the record I don't dislike Taliesin because I think he's some woke twitter warrior or whatever threatening my vulnerable toxic masculinity and MAGA cap. I'm pretty far left on most issues (and from a country where the death penalty has been abolished for more than a century) and indeed I'd probably agree with Taliesin on a lot of things irl. It's just his personality and his chip on the shoulder attitude and all of the things that I've already described that gets in the way of things.

So no, I'm obviously not going to watch this event.

TLDR: https://files.catbox.moe/cx0tb8.mp4 .

while a great explanation/demonstration (appreciated that and sums it up very well), you used a rather long text for saying:

„Taliesin is a typical radical WoW White Knight“

which is imo the core of the whole thing.

as you said, sometimes he slightly criticized Blizz, but almost 90% of his statements sounds like a typical White Knight on MMOC, complaining about complainers. someone who give you the feeling, it’s just some guy that can’t wow let go and therefore steadily have to convince himself wow is best (regardless how much shit Blizz do) by convincing you that wow is best.

to me, white knights like Taliesin are way more annoying than ppl that criticize the game, because they love it and want it to be great again. ppls that also can’t wow just let go. but better the complaining version of these ppls than the white knight version.

in short: i think Taliesin is a horrible wow white knight and i just don’t like him. and i for sure will stop watching that twitter PR shit after 1-2 weeks.

[TheRevenantHero]

He holds leftist views and isn't afraid to air them out on his streams. People who support insurrection and bigotry seem to feel that this is not fair to them because they get banned for saying that acknowledging the existence of gay people is grooming, for instance, among other things. You can see in this thread how some of them have literally questioned why he hasn't been "canceled".

It's people with reprehensible viewpoints being upset that they don't get gifted a platform to spew those reprehensible viewpoints, so they try to falsely equivocate that those opposed to them are also reprehensible.

Tali is smug, for sure, though. But so is everyone who actually believes whatever they believe, or else they wouldn't believe it

He's also toxic as fuck and will randomly get nasty with viewers regardless of their views. Taliesin is a gigantic toxic troll much like Asmongold.

- - - Updated - - -

How hard did you cry when you heard Twitter might allow free speech again?

Considering Elon Musk canceled someone's Tesla order personally because they said something mean about him on social media, it's safe to say there will be no "free speech" on Twitter.

Also, you're not entitled to free speech on Twitter.

[lordjust]

I don't like Tali, Evitel is fine and she was missing for some time from their videos because she was "too negative" towards the game. I liked their videos back in legion nut since they got in touch with Ion and some other blizzard people back when BFA was announced their attitude towards the game and their ideas and "leaks" changed because now they can prove they're friends with some blizzard people.

They lost me back in BFA when Tali made a 40 minute video about azerite armor and that it's actually a great system and everyone who doesn't like it is wrong which down the line brought us to the Asmongold incident and later the beef with Accolon and Bellular because they watched or just discussed their videos and views and disagreed.

They aren't great hosts in my opinion because they're too positive, which is probably the reason why brlizzard chose them as a partner and host. When everyone (even people on the official forums) is unhappy with the game and critizise systems like azerite gear, essences or more recently covenants, Tali makes a video where he says everything is fine and everyone who disagrees is a wrong and a hater for the sake of hating.

Also I don't know if it would make a difference to have someone else as a host because blizzard plans at least the interviews in detail. Preach declined an interview with Ion because they wanted to give him a list of question he has to ask and a list of questions he can't ask and have his own questions approved beforehand by blizzard. So they probably do the same thing with this podcast where they prepare everything beforehand and we won't get new information.

[Mordog]

If they host it like they hostet the Blizzcon Q&A at 2019 Blizzcon this will be a Shitshow.

I think he will push the Questions/Discussion about whats important for him and not what the Community wants to ask/discuss.

Obviously he will mention that his wife gave birth and so they have a BFA and SL Baby, as well as begging for Tuskars...


Sometimes I like his Cinematic analysis . jeah. But thats all, i cant handle this guy anymore...

[Celement]

I can see why they want them.. I would rather others though. People don't want asskissers so much as a focus on lessons learned.

[SNES-1990]

Tali has burnt his bridges with almost every WoW content maker out there. The next in-person BlizzCon is going to be very awkward for him.

[Sentynel]

Tali has burnt his bridges with almost every WoW content maker out there. The next in-person BlizzCon is going to be very awkward for him.

Assuming there will be another in-person Blizzcon

[Archmage Alodi]

Taliesin is too obnoxious and insufferable, hopefully he won't be talking much.

[crusadernero]

He's also toxic as fuck and will randomly get nasty with viewers regardless of their views. Taliesin is a gigantic toxic troll much like Asmongold.

- - - Updated - - -



Considering Elon Musk canceled someone's Tesla order personally because they said something mean about him on social media, it's safe to say there will be no "free speech" on Twitter.

Also, you're not entitled to free speech on Twitter.

I remember once I was watching his stream, couple of months ago. I disagreed with one of this takes about something in the game and he went on in a 2-3 minute long rant towards me and my horrible take. Its just so weird, i've seen him do it towards many viewers. Even viewers that dont really say anything horrible, bad or toxic. They just disagree on whatever he says and puts it forward without any toxic words in chat.

Then he goes ballistic towards said viewer and gets his viewers in on it. Its just SO weird. I understand its his channel and he can do what he wants, but damn. Its like he doesnt want new viewers in or something. If a new viewer joins his stream and see that shit, he prob will turn away.


Personally I dont care he went on a rant towards me, I shrug it off. His views dont hold more merit than any other wow player tbh.

[Archmage Alodi]

I'm going to laugh if T&E show up in their Steve and Ion costumes...

Twitter Spaces are voice only, weird choice to be honest since most wow boomers don't even know wtf it is.

[Wangming]

On the one hand, this is great. They are finally trying to amp up communication. Not Yoshi-P level, faaaar from it. But they are doing something and beggars can't be choosers.
On the other hand, if they wanted real, open honest communication, they wouldn't have asked Taliesin and Evitel to host it. I would have gone with Preach and/or Nobbel.

[Vandren]

I'll wait for the recap. It's no surprise Blizzard chose one of their biggest ass-kissers the planet as their host of choice but listening to Taliesin on pretty much any matter just makes me die inside.

[Archmage Alodi]

On the one hand, this is great. They are finally trying to amp up communication. Not Yoshi-P level, faaaar from it. But they are doing something and beggars can't be choosers.
On the other hand, if they wanted real, open honest communication, they wouldn't have asked Taliesin and Evitel to host it. I would have gone with Preach and/or Nobbel.

Preach turned them down apparently, not 100 percent sure tho, heard some stuff on Twitter.