Diablo 4 rumored release date is in...

[ek0zu]

How many whales are there in the world? That are willing to spend insane amounts of money for internet points and colourful pixels?

On-topic, if D4 has the cool aspects of all of its predecessors w/o their shortcomins it will be a smash. If at the same times d4 has the good things that Lost Ark has, (combat & especially the dodge mechanic, bosses-dungeons-pvp) it will be a huge hit. But if on the other hand has all these and on top of that has some obscure monetization practices it will surely sell good but it will never capture the hearts of the masses apart from those whales.

[exochaft]

Eh, not really. It was a lot of rose tinted "OMG I AM IN BETA" feelings I added 50+ people during it and we all quit within a week with the same conclusion. It's a very shallow experience atm, years away from being an ARPG to meet the standards PoE/Last Epoch etc. are setting.

This is certainly one of the more prominent things I'm seeing from people breaking the NDA. Based upon those breaking the NDA and what they've personally divulged, those claiming the game is great and awesome have only been playing for probably the early parts of the game, those who start seeing the flaws and issue have probably played well beyond that. To be fair, this sort of thing happened even in the Shadowlands beta (I haven't been following the DF beta at all despite having access but it's probably similar), where everyone gets that giddy "omg this is new and feels good! This game is going to be awesome!"... then the honeymoon wears off, changes get made or not made, and you start seeing all the issues that were always there or only reared their ugly head once you get past the starting experience.

Unfortunately, considering how I suspect some of these testing invites are given out, there's probably a good portion of people in the closed beta test who don't give a damn about testing. They won't try to push the limits, they won't try to break things, they won't try to problem solve issues to find the real root cause/issue, they won't extrapolate how their experience will play out depending upon other factors that could cause issues, etc. They'll likely just play the game as any average person would, maybe write a bug report or two when something is seriously broken (if they even notice the bugs at all), but ultimately they're just there to play around and have fun. Now there is some value to this way of playing, but they're likely finding issues that every tester is aware of already and has reported ad nauseum.

On some level, Blizz should've known (and may have planned to some degree) that people would break the NDA when you just give it to random people who don't take it seriously. I put emphasis on random, because I guarantee they probably had a pool of closed beta invites that really were purely given out at random. Those that typically get into the friends and family alpha or closed access phases of Blizz content that require NDAs are pretty much used to being tight-lipped... but for this closed beta the amount of people blabbing about it is pretty significant. Heck, even for the friends and family alpha you really didn't much of anything in terms of leaks, and there were a decent amount of people in that alpha (again, they're typically used to having to keep their mouth shut). This could just be a PR stunt on some level as an NDA is only as strong as they're willing to enforce it, but I still submit that their requirements for getting into the closed beta were probably way more lax than they let on.

[Beefhammer]

This is certainly one of the more prominent things I'm seeing from people breaking the NDA. Based upon those breaking the NDA and what they've personally divulged, those claiming the game is great and awesome have only been playing for probably the early parts of the game, those who start seeing the flaws and issue have probably played well beyond that. To be fair, this sort of thing happened even in the Shadowlands beta (I haven't been following the DF beta at all despite having access but it's probably similar), where everyone gets that giddy "omg this is new and feels good! This game is going to be awesome!"... then the honeymoon wears off, changes get made or not made, and you start seeing all the issues that were always there or only reared their ugly head once you get past the starting experience.

Unfortunately, considering how I suspect some of these testing invites are given out, there's probably a good portion of people in the closed beta test who don't give a damn about testing. They won't try to push the limits, they won't try to break things, they won't try to problem solve issues to find the real root cause/issue, they won't extrapolate how their experience will play out depending upon other factors that could cause issues, etc. They'll likely just play the game as any average person would, maybe write a bug report or two when something is seriously broken (if they even notice the bugs at all), but ultimately they're just there to play around and have fun. Now there is some value to this way of playing, but they're likely finding issues that every tester is aware of already and has reported ad nauseum.

On some level, Blizz should've known (and may have planned to some degree) that people would break the NDA when you just give it to random people who don't take it seriously. I put emphasis on random, because I guarantee they probably had a pool of closed beta invites that really were purely given out at random. Those that typically get into the friends and family alpha or closed access phases of Blizz content that require NDAs are pretty much used to being tight-lipped... but for this closed beta the amount of people blabbing about it is pretty significant. Heck, even for the friends and family alpha you really didn't much of anything in terms of leaks, and there were a decent amount of people in that alpha (again, they're typically used to having to keep their mouth shut). This could just be a PR stunt on some level as an NDA is only as strong as they're willing to enforce it, but I still submit that their requirements for getting into the closed beta were probably way more lax than they let on.

I'm on a discord with hundreds of leaked vids from F&F.

[kranur]

How many whales are there in the world? That are willing to spend insane amounts of money for internet points and colourful pixels?

Enough to make people who want to play competitively based on skill instead of wallet size to walk away and not look back.

- - - Updated - - -

Unfortunately, considering how I suspect some of these testing invites are given out, there's probably a good portion of people in the closed beta test who don't give a damn about testing. They won't try to push the limits, they won't try to break things, they won't try to problem solve issues to find the real root cause/issue, they won't extrapolate how their experience will play out depending upon other factors that could cause issues, etc. They'll likely just play the game as any average person would, maybe write a bug report or two when something is seriously broken (if they even notice the bugs at all), but ultimately they're just there to play around and have fun. Now there is some value to this way of playing, but they're likely finding issues that every tester is aware of already and has reported ad nauseum.

Why would they? They are not paid employees to identify bugs.
They will play the game as the type of gamer they are, some are more casual, some are more hardcore. And for this test they picked us by previous Diablo titles game activity, not randomly.
You also completely miss the point of it. The point is to provide as much feedback as possible, not to look for bugs.

[Biomega]

Why would they? They are not paid employees to identify bugs.
They will play the game as the type of gamer they are, some are more casual, some are more hardcore. And for this test they picked us by previous Diablo titles game activity, not randomly.
You also completely miss the point of it. The point is to provide as much feedback as possible, not to look for bugs.

To add to this, the number of bugs who actually go completely undiscovered by QA is absolutely minuscule. The vast, vast majority of bugs that make it to the live game are KNOWN bugs, that simply haven't been allotted engineering time to fix yet. That's not to say that Betas etc. don't also discover previously unknown bugs - they sure do. But that's not their primary purpose most of the time. It's as said above: it's a more comprehensive user test on all fronts, including balance, feel, fun factor, etc. that would be very difficult to do for in-house testers simply because of the numbers involved. And that's even more relevant for a game like an AARPG where a lot of players expect to sink hundreds if not thousands of hours into the endgame - no way you could test that in-house.

[Aresk]

Sometimes it's all about promotion and marketing. If they want to push a feature before release they don't mention it's either forced or optional. Hence my question if he knew since he knew someone who is in the beta.

PvP areas are opt in. You decide to go there or not. Even with not being able to encounter people in the world. PvP areas can still let you do so. It absolutely can and will work regardless of the 2 modes. I'm not saying "offline" play.

Encountering random people in the world might not be opt in. And that worries me. I know what happened in Immortal and the world stuff were garbage because you constantly had other players there.

So I'm still hoping until I hear 'you are forced to play with others' which I haven't heard is the case. Only that they are pushing for a social experience.

If It becomes as forced as Immortals the game might be a skip for me. Sadly... I doubt It though.

I haven't played Immortal, so I'm curious how other players ruined world content. I thought they mentioned something about the campaign being phased, so I don't expect that to be ruined by other players, and they definitely mentioned different world states (e.g. clearing a camp and creating a town), so I imagine any big, one-time events like that would be only you and your party.

[Coldkil]

Lost Ark is really amazing in many ways, so if they can copy the good parts without the monetization aspects, D4 would be my GotY already. Then again I doubt it will go to as much of an MMO as Lost Ark is, which is a bit of a shame, but we'll see I suppose. I don't put much wait on the leaks as they are breaking an NDA, so there might be just as many people who don't like the game, but won't break their NDA.

As far as monetization goes, they said it's all about skins (which cannot be traded in game for currency) and a seasonal battle pass that, again, the paid path has only cosmetics attached.

Division 2 had the same model, and honestly it felt fair and even good for me imho. It really depends if the pass is like 10 bucks or 30, to me. Granted we're going to see 3 to 4 seasons a year.

[Lodreh]

Fools. /10char

First time?

[Coldkil]

-snip-

I was talking about LA in stuff like collectibles in the world, or zone-related grinds that are not mandatory but something you can do for a change. Also many stuff should be account-wide. We had hints but nothing certain, we'll need to wait until public beta.

[Edge-]

As far as monetization goes, they said it's all about skins (which cannot be traded in game for currency) and a seasonal battle pass that, again, the paid path has only cosmetics attached.

Division 2 had the same model, and honestly it felt fair and even good for me imho. It really depends if the pass is like 10 bucks or 30, to me. Granted we're going to see 3 to 4 seasons a year.

I'm worried about the BP given how it's structured in OW2, Blizzard chose quite possibly the worst system for BP progression despite having years of successes and failures to learn from. Hopefully the negative feedback so far will result in changes to that, and those types of changes going to D4 before they can repeat the same mistakes.

Still feel kinda gross considering giving money to Blizzard, but if that's their model for BP's (cheap BP with some alright bonus rewards that can be progressed via basic XP rather than only via specific challenges, additional cosmetics and stuff in the shop) I'm here for it.

[Kumorii]

I haven't played Immortal, so I'm curious how other players ruined world content. I thought they mentioned something about the campaign being phased, so I don't expect that to be ruined by other players, and they definitely mentioned different world states (e.g. clearing a camp and creating a town), so I imagine any big, one-time events like that would be only you and your party.

It turned the world into a joke. World quests became just showing up... if you need to kill and collect it mostly became collect. Fighting for collects among other players.

Daily rants about certain events being "ruined" by other players because they didn't understand.
Kinda like the Rare event in WoW where you have to let the rare kill animals to grow to a certain size but people try to kill it early etc etc.

Even special events became a joke, usually grander, but also a lot more players so you barely get to fight anything because everything dies before you see them spawn.
"Raid bosses" became show up and receive loot...

Literally everything became a chore because the gameplay wasn't there since it wasn't needed or you had time to indulge in it.
Diablo is a game where you destroy hordes of monsters. Random players turn it into a horde of players destroying some monsters.

The actual group content was fun. Raid bosses in instanced content were more challenging and your own impact mattered more.
So I'm not against multiplayer... but in the overworld? Meeting randoms doing the same quests and stuff you do? No thank you.. the balance will be thrown out of whack.

PvP areas, sure.
Raid bosses in the overworld? Sure...though I don't have high hopes for it.

[Aresk]

It turned the world into a joke. World quests became just showing up... if you need to kill and collect it mostly became collect. Fighting for collects among other players.

Daily rants about certain events being "ruined" by other players because they didn't understand.
Kinda like the Rare event in WoW where you have to let the rare kill animals to grow to a certain size but people try to kill it early etc etc.

Even special events became a joke, usually grander, but also a lot more players so you barely get to fight anything because everything dies before you see them spawn.
"Raid bosses" became show up and receive loot...

Literally everything became a chore because the gameplay wasn't there since it wasn't needed or you had time to indulge in it.
Diablo is a game where you destroy hordes of monsters. Random players turn it into a horde of players destroying some monsters.

The actual group content was fun. Raid bosses in instanced content were more challenging and your own impact mattered more.
So I'm not against multiplayer... but in the overworld? Meeting randoms doing the same quests and stuff you do? No thank you.. the balance will be thrown out of whack.

PvP areas, sure.
Raid bosses in the overworld? Sure...though I don't have high hopes for it.

Thank you for the explanation! It sounds like a lot of those issues come down to population density, and I'm guessing there won't be real feedback on that until there are more players in the game, since the beta is probably relatively small compared to a launch version of the game. On the one hand, world bosses that need hordes of players could feel epic, but it can also be difficult to parse in an ARPG. Doing some random event where another player shows up and helps, though, doesn't seem like it'll be too bad or could even be fun, so long as its not a swarm of locusts descending upon it and nullifying any challenge. Given that most of the end game, from what I've seen, is based on instanced content (nightmare dungeons and the like), I think it'll be fine, but I do understand your reservations now.

[Truthbad]

So let me clear stuff up, I am in the Beta. I am level 9x right now and on my 7th paragon board ( I post this for proof ) So one of the things that people don't understand the purpose of this " End-game Beta "

Do you people know how many folks I've seen posting on the in-game chat saying stuff like " THIS IS THE GAME LOL!? " and " This is the finished product!? " and on these forums? Not as an insult but I really wish people could just gain some understanding and think before posting.

What we are playing is a TEST BUILD. It's missing 80% to 90% of the game's details and assets. Even the skills and items effects are considered placeholders. Our JOB is to level up and test the END-GAME activities and submit feedback. Not " Damn I got to get on so I have a shot of being in the top 1% of the player base or leak info for internet clout"

It's a weak belief to play a test build most likely made a year ago then just say wow this is the full game. I think the game is going to be amazing. I am really happy with what I seen and played.

[Mamut]

@Truthbad
Don't even bother. On MMOchamp everything from Blizzard sucks. But the truth is that D4 looks atleast good from what I saw and it will be another huge succes for Blizzard no matter how many people will complain here. And lets be real, more than half of those complainers will buy the game and play day 1 like everyone else.

[HansOlo]

It can't release soon enough.

I really could use some old school solo grinding and just enjoy my time.

- - - Updated - - -

How many whales are there in the world? That are willing to spend insane amounts of money for internet points and colourful pixels?

On-topic, if D4 has the cool aspects of all of its predecessors w/o their shortcomins it will be a smash. If at the same times d4 has the good things that Lost Ark has, (combat & especially the dodge mechanic, bosses-dungeons-pvp) it will be a huge hit. But if on the other hand has all these and on top of that has some obscure monetization practices it will surely sell good but it will never capture the hearts of the masses apart from those whales.

They already offically mentioned that Immortal and D4 is not same thing. And you can only buy TMOG in D4.

So drop the whales comment. It's really boring. D4 is targeting a different playerbase(and yes - 'whales' you complaing about - supported the creation of D4).

[kranur]

It can't release soon enough.

I really could use some old school solo grinding and just enjoy my time.

- - - Updated - - -

(and yes - 'whales' you complaing about - supported the creation of D4).

You mean the creation of bobby's 10th yacht

[HansOlo]

You mean the creation of bobby's 10th yacht

100% correct.

FB just announced firing 11.000 people yesterday because of bad management(admitted by Mark). Businesses are closing off due to inflation. Twitter is borderline damaged as Elon removed 50% of the staff. But Blizzard is still around and WoW made it to it's 18th anniversary - outlived every expectation and competition.

Good for Bobby. I wish he earned more yachts for keeping the buisness running. He bought Blizzard for 1M dollars back in 90s and made it a 70BN dollar company. And good for people who don't mind supporting Blizzard with thier wallet.

...

And then we have you.

[KrayZ33]

I've not heard anything announced about an opt-out feature, and they seem pretty adamant about this being a social game. In particular, there are PvP areas that just wouldn't work if you could opt out of playing with other people in the world.

I'd have to ask my buddy again for details, but even in those PvP areas you have to opt-IN on PvP.
It sounded like you can go there without doing any PvP whatsoever, but you won't be able to clear events in that area.



This game will climb out of, or fall into, the abyss depending on the amount of daily activities btw.
And I'm saying this from the POV that daily activities *suck balls*.

People pretend they want to play games like this daily, some certainly do, most don't - that's why gacha games and games like LA lose a lot of players after the first month.
At some point in time, you just DON'T want to log in to do some piss-easy uninteresting daily quests for some "special currency" or loot chance.
I just hope that they leave that kind of shit out of the game... I don't want the game to tell me what I should do to get 10x better rewards.
It's just an awful feeling.
The whole open-world map with events all over the place reeks of this kind of stuff. Not sure why they turned this franchise into a semi-MMO. Ugh..

[kranur]

100% correct.

FB just announced firing 11.000 people yesterday because of bad management(admitted by Mark). Businesses are closing off due to inflation. Twitter is borderline damaged as Elon removed 50% of the staff. But Blizzard is still around and WoW made it to it's 18th anniversary - outlived every expectation and competition.

Good for Bobby. I wish he earned more yachts for keeping the buisness running. He bought Blizzard for 1M dollars back in 90s and made it a 70BN dollar company. And good for people who don't mind supporting Blizzard with thier wallet.

...

And then we have you.

If you're going to try to be a smartass, at least put out correct facts, otherwise you simply look dumb.

[Nymrohd]

Thank you for the explanation! It sounds like a lot of those issues come down to population density, and I'm guessing there won't be real feedback on that until there are more players in the game, since the beta is probably relatively small compared to a launch version of the game. On the one hand, world bosses that need hordes of players could feel epic, but it can also be difficult to parse in an ARPG. Doing some random event where another player shows up and helps, though, doesn't seem like it'll be too bad or could even be fun, so long as its not a swarm of locusts descending upon it and nullifying any challenge. Given that most of the end game, from what I've seen, is based on instanced content (nightmare dungeons and the like), I think it'll be fine, but I do understand your reservations now.

Honestly haven't touched DI in a while but the real issue was with a world boss in the second zone that you HAD to kill (possibly more than once) for one of the many systems the game had. That boss would heal up if people did not run out of a very telegraphed AoE so especially early on it could be hell trying to kill it. Beyond that the only other common issue is someone moving through an area while you were XP grinding and ruining your massacre streak. Imo low-stakes world grinding for XP is degenerate gaming anyhow so . . .