Can our Mage be better?

[Ciani]

Glad to help. I hope you can get him up to par, it pains me to see poor mages. We're not exactly a complex class, but this just seems mostly like a homework issue.

Hopefully he listens to me. I hate sounding like an elitist but i'm the raid leader and personally, I want my raiders to give their 100%. I hope he doesn't tell me to shove it or something. I kind of brought it up before but he just said, "I know my class." I knew there was a problem but I didn't know it was this bad.

[Deleted]

he makes a few mistakes but to be honest he didnt do that bad, on shannox i assume he was on rageface and that can mess up you overall damage, on alysrazor he wasnt in the sky, so thats why his overall is low, but if you look at individual kills he does ok around 25k dps on average, it could be better, but its not that bad

[Raht]

he makes a few mistakes but to be honest he didnt do that bad, on shannox i assume he was on rageface and that can mess up you overall damage, on alysrazor he wasnt in the sky, so thats why his overall is low, but if you look at individual kills he does ok around 25k dps on average, it could be better, but its not that bad

Did you not read the post on how he didn't use evocate?

[Bombkirby]

So I guess this was a case of an arcane mage playing the Wotlk style rotation hmm?

[Jsrz]

Apparently

[Deleted]

He could reforge that crit into hit for cap.. since hes nearly 2% under the cap.

[Deleted]

Hopefully he listens to me. I hate sounding like an elitist but i'm the raid leader and personally, I want my raiders to give their 100%. I hope he doesn't tell me to shove it or something. I kind of brought it up before but he just said, "I know my class." I knew there was a problem but I didn't know it was this bad.

If he tells you to shove it, for the love of god spend your legendary on someone better. As someone pointed out already, not using evocation as an arcane mage is bad and clearly shows a ''cba to learn my spec'' mentality. Not using evocation can, doing a quick assumption, mean about a 7-8k dps loss I think lol.

Arcane is about cd's > AB to 30-35% mana > evocation back to 95% > conserve mana and wait for cd's > AB to 30-35% > evocation back to 95% > etc.
This is why, if you check logs, arcane mages damage is going up to massive amounts 3 times over a 5 minute fight such as Baleroc, and probably slightly lower apart from those 3 burst rotations. Average being good dps.
Here's an example from me: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2448&e=2713
I made mistakes too I know, not caring much about maxing atm on farm. Could have gotten more dps in the end and use 1 more AP probably.

[Frostbites]

Sadly, no. He seems to be fine for boss mechanics specifically, but... I'm taking a look through your baleroc kill, as that's closest for the ideal arcane fight. As mentioned above, crit is pretty poor for arcane. He should be pulling stats out of crit into others, not out of haste into others.



Baleroc. I see no evocations, period; the spec is a burn and evocate into conserve mode until the CDs come back up. He appears to be using mana shield either after the damage is done or when he won't be taking any, which are wastes of GCDs; all but one of them was a complete waste. This was a 5:49 kill, and wasn't using evocate, but only managed 3 arcane power and 2 presence of minds. These are 1:30 cooldowns. Given he's not using evocation for some reason, he should have been using them on CD. Looking at damage specifically, he only cast flame orb once, when he could have gotten 6. Your entire raid night, he evocated 4 times total.

Please direct him to the sticky at the top of the board on how to play arcane. He clearly doesn't understand the mechanics of the spec, by any stretch of the imagination. The dude's got 6 item levels on me, and VPLC which is a ~1k DPS proc, and I'm beating him silly in terms of damage, as frost. He might be great for boss mechanics, but to be honest, he's a shitty mage. I hope you can convince him to do some homework on the class and get him up to par.

Edit: Throwing the AB debuff graph up with the other picture. I really wish this had a mana graph sometimes, this would be fascinating to tear apart.

How do you get to that page of WoL to show when and which buffs are used?

[Eilee]

How do you get to that page of WoL to show when and which buffs are used?

You click on a char, then the "Buffs Cast" tab, then the #-symbol.
The image is a composite (ie, done for several buffs and pasted together in paint or something)

[Deleted]

How do you get to that page of WoL to show when and which buffs are used?

Press on the "#" in the right column of the buff.

edit: sadly im not that speedtyper^^
edit2:

The image is a composite (ie, done for several buffs and pasted together in paint or something)

No, you can simply toggle the "#" for several buffs at once.

[Frostbites]

You click on a char, then the "Buffs Cast" tab, then the #-symbol.
The image is a composite (ie, done for several buffs and pasted together in paint or something)

WHen I click the # thing, the green bars dont show up.
Instead I get this small box that goes away after I click on it.

[Torian kel]

I want to slitly disagree. The top guild of my realm ( The Fallen, second Fr, 6 year history, very very good guild ), have three mages, two of them with the legendary, and they reforge most of their gear to crit. I had a discution on that topic with one of them and he told me that with high end level gear ( they are all of them 90% full BiS ), their WoL showed better results with crit than mastery or haste. Less big numbers, but much more crits, so their dps went higher

Just my two cent

[Deleted]

I want to slitly disagree. The top guild of my realm ( The Fallen, second Fr, 6 year history, very very good guild ), have three mages, two of them with the legendary, and they reforge most of their gear to crit. I had a discution on that topic with one of them and he told me that with high end level gear ( they are all of them 90% full BiS ), their WoL showed better results with crit than mastery or haste. Less big numbers, but much more crits, so their dps went higher

Just my two cent

That's probably because if the legendary procs off a crit it's way better than proccing off a spell that's cast 0.1s faster

[Deleted]

That's probably because if the legendary procs off a crit it's way better than proccing off a spell that's cast 0.1s faster

The legendary proc has its own chance to crit/notcrit so that makes 0 sense.

---------- Post added 2011-10-18 at 03:13 PM ----------

I want to slitly disagree. The top guild of my realm ( The Fallen, second Fr, 6 year history, very very good guild ), have three mages, two of them with the legendary, and they reforge most of their gear to crit. I had a discution on that topic with one of them and he told me that with high end level gear ( they are all of them 90% full BiS ), their WoL showed better results with crit than mastery or haste. Less big numbers, but much more crits, so their dps went higher

Just my two cent

They are horribly misinformed baffoons.

[Torian kel]

They are horribly misinformed baffoons.

No offense, but I'd bet on them vs you anytime

They are very high leveled mages, i can assure you, so maybe don't be so quick to judge

[Swizzle]

No offense, but I'd bet on them vs you anytime

They are very high leveled mages, i can assure you, so maybe don't be so quick to judge

Sorry, but their logic doesn't add up at all. Less casts with a slightly higher chance to deal more damage would probably yield less DPS than having more casts and less down time. You can have a DTR, but it doesn't mean you know how to maximize it.

[Max Rebo]

FWIW, a quick run of his toon through Rawr gets him hit capped, +283 haste rating, and +2.37 mastery. It's a small theoretical increase in dps (1-2% or ~400 dps), but an increase nonetheless.

I'm not sure why he would stack crit over haste and mastery, while being more than 1% below the hit cap. Ignoring the minor shift in stats, the bigger issue, as Kuni pointed out, is the lack of Evocation usage. It makes you wonder whether he understands burn/conserve phases. I counted 15 evocates, but only 4 (as mentioned earlier) were used on the actual boss kills.

[Deleted]

No offense, but I'd bet on them vs you anytime

They are very high leveled mages, i can assure you, so maybe don't be so quick to judge

That would be an unwise bet, but dick waving aside, link their armouries

Edit: Nvm the link, I found them. Very strange

---------- Post added 2011-10-18 at 04:03 PM ----------

Low and behold he's doing less dps than most mages with DTR on Baleroc, A meager 1.2k more than I was managing without the legendary

[phyrix]

Now I'm a noob when it comes to mages. I just hit 85 on mine last friday.

But even I know how to execute the burn/conserve phases, even though in practice it's not always that easy.

As far as I know, if you're not evocating, that means that you're just in your conservative phase all the time, and correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that mean you're doing a lot less dps then you could be doing?

Every arcane mage worth his salt should know about this, and do his very best to execute it as perfectly as possible.
Imo, somebody who isn't even putting in that much effort doesn't belong in a raidgroup.

[Phair]

The only way I can see crit working slightly better then mastery is because the encounters are so damn short now most magi sporting a SOW don't even really have a conserve phase where you stay at 95% for an extended period of time thus receiving the full benefit of your mastery. I've had plenty of burns where I didn't get a single crit and it has cost me greatly on the charts.

I'd be very interested to see their Heroic Ragnaros parses where they don't really have this luxury.