Reserving Loot - Glorified Ninja?

[Deleted]

People that reserve items during their runs are loot .... you know what they are, and i for one hate them with a passion. But to me, the greatest mystery is why would anyone in their right mind join one of these runs...?

Because the people who decide to go already have that loot / cant use it / don't need it?

Either way, it's not ninja'ing. You know in advance they're going to take x item.

[Hyve]

On Darksorrow EU (Alliance) it has become the norm to pay for the reserved loot. The entire raid has contributed to the kill, so the whole raid should have a chance to win the money.

It'll be raid rolled, and then the person will be paid gold instead of getting the item.

[Deleted]

Except the raid leader who gathered the group.

Of course, some people are always ungrateful bastards, but luckily most will understand this.

So by your logic any GM in a guild run would get any loot he wants since he leads the guild and thus put in most effort?

[Deleted]

Really? how so?

Oh and back when the community didn't suck, before people like you, reserving loot wasn't commonly accepted

Putting a group together takes more than just tagging along.
The leader decides the rules since he is the leader, he chooses who can come and who can not. You are given the opportunity to tag along. Nothing forces him to take you. If he wants something for his effort, its his choice. Noone is forcing you. Make your own group.
I would say something like "before people like you", but arrogant assholes that wants equal reward for less effort have always existed.

So by your logic any GM in a guild run would get any loot he wants since he leads the guild and thus put in most effort?

Yep.
But people would leave.
Their choice based on his choice.

[Krid]

I'm honestly not sure if the OP is trolling.

[Raugnaut]

On the subject of loot, the guild I was in, when we first started clearing FL, downed Beth with a PuG mage. The spellcaster staff dropped. The pug mage had a 378 BoE one-hand wep, and an 359 offhand. All the other casters (We had 3 others) had a 359 weapon. The mage won, and refused to sell the item, and then proceeded to say that they dont even play the mage that often.

You get asshole pugs, even if they preform well. Can you solo the raid/mobs that your loot drops from? If a guild wishes to reserve loot, it is thier right, as they can probably 9 man most shit in there. If a single person is getting together a raid, it is thier right to reserve whatever the hell they feel like, as they are the leader, they are the ones putting the effor into coordinating other ppl who would as soon as rip you off as look at you, ect, ect. If you dont like it, dont follow. Simple as that.

TLR If you think that someone reserving loot in a raid that THEY get together is wrong, you need to be brutally pummeled off your high horse.

[mea]

How do people see this as ninjaing? It's not. Given that they state the reservation previously to inviting you, you're accepting their rules. I know it's frustrating, and it sucks, but you know it's there. This is the same shit as complaining about something that you don't have to do. They aren't removing any options for you in the game - it's just displeasing that the options aren't at their best.

Now, if you want to debate whether it's selfish, that's another case. But it isn't ninjaing in any form.

[Gnomepowa]

Not everybody builds the group up. i usually spend 1-2h just making the group, and sometimes if I have been hunting a certain item for ages I just might reserve it.

I want to see who spends 1-2hrs in a raid group doing nothing then giving their best for another 2 hrs to have the right to roll for stuff denied.

Reserving =/= ninja, since the surprise element is missing. Is however wrong imo. I agree that the RL puts in the extra effort to gather the group but that shouldn't be glorified in any way. It's encounter effort that matters.

I'm not surprised at how many say reserving stuff is perfectly ok. But yet again how representative are a few opinions (mine included) are for the entire player base is debatable.

[Deleted]

That's just totally fine, I mean you know the rules beforehand and joining such a raid you actually agree on those terms.
Noone forces you to join that raid.

[Beace]

Oh and back when the community didn't suck, before people like you, reserving loot wasn't commonly accepted

You mean back when raid pugs didn't exist because raids were too hard? Wasn't that long ago, and people pretty much started to reserve stuff soon as raids became puggable.

[Deleted]

Putting a group together takes more than just tagging along.
The leader decides the rules since he is the leader, he chooses who can come and who can not. You are given the opportunity to tag along. Nothing forces him to take you. If he wants something for his effort, its his choice. Noone is forcing you. Make your own group.
I would say something like "before people like you", but arrogant assholes that wants equal reward for less effort have always existed.


Yep.
But people would leave.
Their choice based on his choice.

Ah name calling, how mature. I am 100% sure you didn't play in vanilla when the community didn't suck, hence the people like you

Correct me if i am wrong but no one can solo a current tier raid?
The raid leader depends as much on his group members to get the kill as they do on him so there is absolutely no reason why he should be guaranteed rewards. No one is forcing him to make a group, he is doing it presumably because he wants to do it

Funny thing is, on my server, the most successful pug is run by an alt of the leading guild and he NEVER reserves anything. Meanwhile the morons who thinks they deserve special rewards are spamming trade because they have troubles fill their group

[Prag]

Except the raid leader who gathered the group.

Of course, some people are always ungrateful bastards, but luckily most will understand this.

Ungrateful how?

If you find it difficult to form a proper group, you don't deserve special treatment. It's not that hard to type in chat, look a few people up on Armory and get people into an organized vent if it's needed. I don't know where you think that makes the person deserve sometimes a TON of gold...

I've had runs where 2-3 BOE's drop off trash, the BOE Shield and the Cloth shoes dropped. It took less than an hour to fill the group and 2.5 hours to clear it. Had I reserved and sold all of that, I'd have made easily 120,000 gold.

[Deleted]

You mean back when raid pugs didn't exist because raids were too hard? Wasn't that long ago, and people pretty much started to reserve stuff soon as raids became puggable.

We pugged raids in vanilla, your point?

[Deleted]

Reserving =/= ninja, since the surprise element is missing. Is however wrong imo. I agree that the RL puts in the extra effort to gather the group but that shouldn't be glorified in any way. It's encounter effort that matters.

1 in 10 puts in the effort to make the raid.
9 in 10 expects others to make sure that they get to the encounter.

What if those 1 in 10 gather up and all make the raid together?
You then have 10x(9 out of 10) people that are too lazy to do anything and wont get to the encounter.

[Krid]

Ah name calling, how mature. I am 100% sure you didn't play in vanilla when the community didn't suck, hence the people like you

Correct me if i am wrong but no one can solo a current tier raid?
The raid leader depends as much on his group members to get the kill as they do on him so there is absolutely no reason why he should be guaranteed rewards. No one is forcing him to make a group, he is doing it presumably because he wants to do it

Once again. If you don't like the rules of the raid, gtfo and make your own.

[PetersenIII]

Reserving Loot - Glorified Ninja?

Pretty much, at least they're telling you up front, right? /shrugs

So you tell them "Hey, we can't fill a raid, but we're still more entitled to loot than the PUG."?

Seems logical...

I really love this mentality. "We can't raid without you, be we're not going to let you have any/as much loot."

People that reserve items during their runs are loot .... you know what they are, and i for one hate them with a passion. But to me, the greatest mystery is why would anyone in their right mind join one of these runs...?

Because people (firstly are morons, but also) don't give a crap about principles; if it's not stuff they want, they don't care how ridiculous it is on the general principle of it.

1 in 10 puts in the effort to make the raid.

Yeah, it's so much effort to spam trade asking people to just link an achievement and tell you their iLevel. Such an arduous, arduous task. Give me a break. Putting together a raid is a joke. Heck, even if you actually do go out and armory candidates and personally evaluate their gear rather than relying on A) their honesty and B) a single number to tell you the quality of their gear it's still not that big of a deal. Leading a raid is somewhat more commendable, but the "RL" doesn't often actually lead the raid, that usually falls to whomever in the group turns out to be the most out-spoken or in the 'better' guild on the server. I'd put together a raid no problem, but I refuse to tell monkeys how to jump when they should damned well already know how (or be able to quickly figure out it).

I'd also like to take the opportunity to ridicule how stupid it is to require the achievement for an instance you're going to go do. No wonder blizzard is implementing the LFR and I prey to GOD it gives the same 'completion' achievement to skrew up this ignorant method of 'screening' the M&S majority has developed.

[emmac727]

i understand a guild reserving boes since they might share them with other guildies its the raids that pug all members reserving boes i dont understand ive formed bots in the past where i reserve soul blades but thats it

[Crashdummy]

Not everybody builds the group up. i usually spend 1-2h just making the group, and sometimes if I have been hunting a certain item for ages I just might reserve it.

I dont think he's refering to just reserving one item.

Now, if you reserve all of firelands BoEs its another thing (if we take bosses BoE into account i think that 1/4 of all fireland loot is BoE, witha nice error marging since i dont even looked for that % nor did any calculation).

[Prag]

I'm honestly not sure if the OP is trolling.

Your inability to understand what I'm posting is not me trolling. I'm (trying) to read every reply. I enjoy the debate.

Since you're asking for my advice on how to handle it:

This is an optional discussion.

You can leave.

[Deleted]

Ah name calling, how mature. I am 100% sure you didn't play in vanilla when the community didn't suck, hence the people like you

Correct me if i am wrong but no one can solo a current tier raid?
The raid leader depends as much on his group members to get the kill as they do on him so there is absolutely no reason why he should be guaranteed rewards. No one is forcing him to make a group, he is doing it presumably because he wants to do it

Indeed, noone if forcing him to make a group.
But who is forcing them to join him, under his rules?
Its called "leader" and not "babysitter" for a reason.