[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[MrTharne]

When I was playing I did not have this issue. ACT should save them automatically after one minute.

I used the rainbowmage overlay and all I ever had to do was just boot up ACT and it was good to go.

I deleted my ACT AppData folder and I was good. Don't know what happened.

[Faroth]

Let me ask you this.

Let's say you're running a dungeon and a cool piece of glamour gear drops. You like it, but aren't likely to use it anytime soon as you have 3-4 other glamours you want to cycle between first. However, it's the first time you've ever seen it actually drop. You want to get it instead of risking it being gone for another 6 months->year.

The other person in the party who rolled wanted it badly and wanted to wear it today.

In this scenario (which mirrors the housing one) neither person is wrong. Just because someone wants it more, or to use it sooner doesn't make their situation more important.

Not sure I agree that's a 1:1 analogy.

Better question is would you spend 1 million gil on a shirt that you put in your retainer storage because you might want to wear it someday and after 6 months have done nothing with it?

As has been observed, there's a high likelihood of people grabbing plots to try and flip them to people for double the value, which Square has clearly taken a stance against being in the spirit and intent of the design. I'm not sure how they can design a system to better handle it, though. I wish they could come up with something, though.

Of course, they're still evaluating how the server populations are panning out on home ownership and determining how to continue addressing with additional housing and making space for more subdivisions, etc.

Hoping I can get a medium sized in Othard when they're available myself.

[Wrecktangle]

Not sure I agree that's a 1:1 analogy.

Better question is would you spend 1 million gil on a shirt that you put in your retainer storage because you might want to wear it someday and after 6 months have done nothing with it?

As has been observed, there's a high likelihood of people grabbing plots to try and flip them to people for double the value, which Square has clearly taken a stance against being in the spirit and intent of the design. I'm not sure how they can design a system to better handle it, though. I wish they could come up with something, though.

Of course, they're still evaluating how the server populations are panning out on home ownership and determining how to continue addressing with additional housing and making space for more subdivisions, etc.

Hoping I can get a medium sized in Othard when they're available myself.

As someone very in tune with IRL real estate I don't see the issue (limited quantity, high demand means people have to pay premiums (look at Cali)). Have they flat out said that it's against the rules to buy a house and not do anything with it? Is it a bannable offense? How could you prove that someone bought the house with intent to flip? What if I bought the house in an impulse because it was made available, but then changed my mind and wanted to sell it? Is that bannable? Would I be forced to sell it at cost/under mkt value because I changed my mind? That'd be a bad system too.

Couldn't they just lock you to owning 1 plot of land at any given point in time? Per server, maybe per account? I'm not intimately familiar with the housing system as I just come and go to whatever FC I'm in. Housing doesn't do anything for me as a form of content so I didn't keep up on the finer points.

Regarding the analogy, mine fits better than yours because mine is time sensitive yours isn't. In my example something was made available for a VERY brief amount of time, forcing you to make a decision immediately and you'd be directly competing against others who want this commodity regardless of when you planned on utilizing this commodity.

[Faroth]

Have they flat out said that it's against the rules to buy a house and not do anything with it?
No, they haven't, and I didn't either. That's not the point being made whatsoever. Nobody has suggested not using the house should be an actionable offense, only that it's disappointing to see.

What Square's spoken against is the flipping for profit stance. The fact that people are buying houses and not using them is only being speculated that they're looking to flip them for ridiculous sums. I don't think they'd fault someone for selling it for a little extra, but people were spening 30 million and then looking for 150 million because "you can't get one otherwise" at one point. Sure, you can argue the market decides what they're willing to pay, but that's not the position Square's taken, likely due to the fact that they want everyone to have fair access and the person who can camp at 3AM for servers to come up early for the sole intent of making 100 million gil isn't what they want to encourage.

And yes, it's a fault of the housing design. Some could argue they should have remained FC-only far longer than they did and I'd probably agree with the logic.

Live Letter, E3 2016:

In terms of people who are reselling, like giving up their home and then trying to sell it off for an enormous amount of gil, that sort of reselling of housing is a no-go. We do not stand for that.

When you do see a player that is obviously utilizing their housing to sell it off for a really high amount, and you do see in party finder, please let us know. Report it to us and then GM's will go in and investigate. And if we do find evidence that it is true that a certain player is going out there selling off their land for an unusually large amount of money, we will try to go in there and make them refund that gil and return the land.

We may have mentioned it before, but we do not allow people to do something as malicious as selling some of these plots. Again, once we have it reported, we will investigate and find the evidence. And once we find sufficient evidence, we will try to address it and rectify the situation.

How could you prove that someone bought the house with intent to flip?
Nobody said to take action on intent. Only the advertising of selling it for beyong market value is actionable.

What if I bought the house in an impulse because it was made available, but then changed my mind and wanted to sell it?
Not if you're selling it for a fair value rather than 2-5x what they cost.

Is that bannable? Would I be forced to sell it at cost/under mkt value because I changed my mind? That'd be a bad system too.
I believe the up and up is to sell it for around what you bought it for to recover your money, but a small profit isn't going to blip a radar. This isn't the real estate market. Home costs don't appreciate or depreciate, you're not paying taxes or a fee for maintenance and upkeep.

Wouldn't they just lock you to owning 1 plot of land at any given point in time?
They do. An individual can only own one house on the server.

[Scufflegrit]

Let's say you're running a dungeon and a cool piece of glamour gear drops. You like it, but aren't likely to use it anytime soon as you have 3-4 other glamours you want to cycle between first. However, it's the first time you've ever seen it actually drop. You want to get it instead of risking it being gone for another 6 months->year.

The other person in the party who rolled wanted it badly and wanted to wear it today.

In this scenario (which mirrors the housing one) neither person is wrong. Just because someone wants it more, or to use it sooner doesn't make their situation more important.

The difference in those scenarios is that you can run that dungeon again and the same piece of gear has a chance to drop immediately (and sometimes it can drop multiple times in the same dungeon). There's no limit on how many times that piece of gear can drop. But you can't go looking for a house, see one you love (specific neighborhood, specific other homeowners/businesses in the area) but find out it's just been sold, drive around the block and find an exact copy of that house with all the things you wanted in that exact location. In game, even though there are multiples of that same plot of land, it may not be in the neighborhood you want (near a friend's house or your FC or whatever), but even with there being multiples, there's still a limited supply.

Wouldn't they just lock you to owning 1 plot of land at any given point in time?
They do. An individual can only own one house on the server.

Actually a person with 8 characters and way too much gil can own 16 houses on a single server. 8 personal, 8 FC. And if that person has too much RL money and multiple accounts it just gets worse.

I still think they should limit it to 1 personal house per account per server and one FC house per account period. You could conceivably split your play time between 2... MAYBE 3 servers and maybe want a house on each. But you couldn't really be an effective leader for multiple FCs.

And if they eventually make a single data center into some sort of mega server similar to the way WoW did cross realm zone stuff I could see them limiting it to 1 house per data center and then all your characters on that DC share it.

[The Casualty]

I still think they should limit it to 1 personal house per account per server and one FC house per account period. You could conceivably split your play time between 2... MAYBE 3 servers and maybe want a house on each. But you couldn't really be an effective leader for multiple FCs.

And if they eventually make a single data center into some sort of mega server similar to the way WoW did cross realm zone stuff I could see them limiting it to 1 house per data center and then all your characters on that DC share it.

This makes the most sense.

[Wrecktangle]

Have they flat out said that it's against the rules to buy a house and not do anything with it?
No, they haven't, and I didn't either. That's not the point being made whatsoever. Nobody has suggested not using the house should be an actionable offense, only that it's disappointing to see.

I'm merely trying to define the state of play because I don't know it. Your post comes off a bit aggressive here, below is fine.

What Square's spoken against is the flipping for profit stance. The fact that people are buying houses and not using them is only being speculated that they're looking to flip them for ridiculous sums. I don't think they'd fault someone for selling it for a little extra, but people were spening 30 million and then looking for 150 million because "you can't get one otherwise" at one point. Sure, you can argue the market decides what they're willing to pay, but that's not the position Square's taken, likely due to the fact that they want everyone to have fair access and the person who can camp at 3AM for servers to come up early for the sole intent of making 100 million gil isn't what they want to encourage.

And yes, it's a fault of the housing design. Some could argue they should have remained FC-only far longer than they did and I'd probably agree with the logic.

So if I am the only person on the server who can craft X, should SQEX step in and say that I can only sell it for a reasonable profit? Sure at a later date more people will be able to craft it and it will no longer be rare, but at this exact second, should I be limited?

It's hard for me to associate with SQEX controlling the pricing, it just seems so mismanaged and artificial (especially considering how every commodity market IRL works). That said, from a player POV I can imagine how unfun it must be to want a house, but there are no open plots within my budget. The obvious solution here would be that SQEX had a singular person who had taken an economics class in school on the housing team, but that time is past unfortunately.

How could you prove that someone bought the house with intent to flip?
Nobody said to take action on intent. Only the advertising of selling it for beyong market value is actionable.

Technically they are selling for mkt value lol. What you/SE is advocating is preventing people from selling over x% over MSRP. I'm not opposed to this, I honestly could care less one way or the other, but I don't see how either paradigm is wrong (a la my analogy up top).

What if I bought the house in an impulse because it was made available, but then changed my mind and wanted to sell it?
Not if you're selling it for a fair value rather than 2-5x what they cost.

Again, fair value is a vague term. What's fair to you, may not be to me etc. If we're going by SQEX's measurements than they should have protected/enforced those measures at inception (you and I agree on this).

Wouldn't they just lock you to owning 1 plot of land at any given point in time?
They do. An individual can only own one house on the server.

Then what's the issue? Is the issue someone buying a house that they don't need/want and reselling it? If 2-5x the price is 'unfair' as you say, then naturally no one will buy it, and the price will normalize at the MSRP designated by SQEX. If it settles at 2x above MSRP, than that is the market price, thus no issue? It's not like 1 guy can log on before anyone else is up, go to Shirogane and buy every single plot because he has 500Bn Gil.

The difference in those scenarios is that you can run that dungeon again and the same piece of gear has a chance to drop immediately (and sometimes it can drop multiple times in the same dungeon). There's no limit on how many times that piece of gear can drop. But you can't go looking for a house, see one you love (specific neighborhood, specific other homeowners/businesses in the area) but find out it's just been sold, drive around the block and find an exact copy of that house with all the things you wanted in that exact location. In game, even though there are multiples of that same plot of land, it may not be in the neighborhood you want (near a friend's house or your FC or whatever), but even with there being multiples, there's still a limited supply.

There's also no permanent limit on housing (there is an immediate limit though). They're always adding new wards, etc. and people are always losing their houses over time due to lapses, quitting, etc. Thus making the plot opening event "rare" just like the glamour in my analogy thus further proving my point. You can "check the plot board" every day, even repeatedly and sometimes you'll see a house open up and other times you won't.

Actually a person with 8 characters and way too much gil can own 16 houses on a single server. 8 personal, 8 FC. And if that person has too much RL money and multiple accounts it just gets worse.

I still think they should limit it to 1 personal house per account per server and one FC house per account period. You could conceivably split your play time between 2... MAYBE 3 servers and maybe want a house on each. But you couldn't really be an effective leader for multiple FCs.

And if they eventually make a single data center into some sort of mega server similar to the way WoW did cross realm zone stuff I could see them limiting it to 1 house per data center and then all your characters on that DC share it.

Not opposed to this idea. Sounds like a reasonable suggestion to me.

[Faroth]

Actually a person with 8 characters and way too much gil can own 16 houses on a single server. 8 personal, 8 FC. And if that person has too much RL money and multiple accounts it just gets worse.

I still think they should limit it to 1 personal house per account per server and one FC house per account period. You could conceivably split your play time between 2... MAYBE 3 servers and maybe want a house on each. But you couldn't really be an effective leader for multiple FCs.

And if they eventually make a single data center into some sort of mega server similar to the way WoW did cross realm zone stuff I could see them limiting it to 1 house per data center and then all your characters on that DC share it.

Good point, I forgot about that. I agree on the 1 personal house per account per server restriction.

[Granyala]

In my example something was made available for a VERY brief amount of time, forcing you to make a decision immediately and you'd be directly competing against others who want this commodity regardless of when you planned on utilizing this commodity.

Yeah.
So briefly that, if you dare to have any form of real life on patch/release day, you don't need to bother checking at all.

After the last increase in plots I was online 90 MINUTES post patch... all sold out.

[Faroth]

Then what's the issue? Is the issue someone buying a house that they don't need/want and reselling it? If 2-5x the price is 'unfair' as you say, then naturally no one will buy it, and the price will normalize at the MSRP designated by SQEX. If it settles at 2x above MSRP, than that is the market price, thus no issue? It's not like 1 guy can log on before anyone else is up, go to Shirogane and buy every single plot because he has 500Bn Gil.

As Scrufflegrit noted, and I forgot, a player could get 8 houses (one per character). I recall some FCs funded their members all buying personal houses. Some were attempting to own an entire subdivision, others were just buying whatever they could with the intent of flipping every one of them.

It's certainly a system that lacked some thought. Unfortunately game designers have to always think of "how will a jerk exploit this for their own gain beyond our intent" and Square dropped the ball on it here.

I somewhat wonder if it's a disconnect between Japanese mentality and American mentality during development. We're more "good for me" foremost while Japanese society has a stronger "good of the community" perspective ingrained in them.

There's a number of ways they could have better designed it, but here we are with what we have for the time being.

[Kazgrel]

Everyone wanting at least a medium house, just like yours truly...Shirogane is gonna be a shitstorm once the housing there goes live. I'm simply hoping someone decides to move from an old house and that I can snap up one of those in the event I'm not able to snag one in the new area.

[Wrecktangle]

Yeah.
So briefly that, if you dare to have any form of real life on patch/release day, you don't need to bother checking at all.

After the last increase in plots I was online 90 MINUTES post patch... all sold out.

As someone who is very frequently busy on Tuesdays I always miss out on that stuff too so don't feel too bad. You're not alone friend.

As Scrufflegrit noted, and I forgot, a player could get 8 houses (one per character). I recall some FCs funded their members all buying personal houses. Some were attempting to own an entire subdivision, others were just buying whatever they could with the intent of flipping every one of them.

It's certainly a system that lacked some thought. Unfortunately game designers have to always think of "how will a jerk exploit this for their own gain beyond our intent" and Square dropped the ball on it here.

I somewhat wonder if it's a disconnect between Japanese mentality and American mentality during development. We're more "good for me" foremost while Japanese society has a stronger "good of the community" perspective ingrained in them.

There's a number of ways they could have better designed it, but here we are with what we have for the time being.

Agreed his example is a huge oversight and problem. To be fair though and I covered it previously, all it would have taken is a kid who took a high school macro class to see that issue coming. I can't blame it on Western culture, because I know for a fact Eastern culture has issues like this too, even in gaming. They're not as "socially perfect" as some people in this megathread let on.

[Faroth]

Never said they're socially perfect, that's putting words in my mouth, but the "community over individual" is an extremely central aspect of Japanese culture that's rather drilled in, so it wouldn't surprise me if it was a contributing factor to oversight on issues like this.

[MrTharne]

Artwork Completed!

[Anzaman]

So, what is that "Miqo’te-like!" in the pic, hmm..?

[Faroth]

It's... it's just a miqo'te to me.

Clearly a completely missed opportunity to introduce a fox race from Othard, of course. Because foxes are the best animal.

Viera are still the trump card for a subscription boost far down the road, though. I'm sure of it!

[Anzaman]

It's... it's just a miqo'te to me.

Clearly a completely missed opportunity to introduce a fox race from Othard, of course. Because foxes are the best animal.

Garlean Empire found them earlier and took all the fox girls with them, so we need to wait for 5.0.

[Kazgrel]

I'm drawing a complete blank as to what exactly that illustration is supposed to be hyping up. The last portion of it shows both a Maelstrom and Flames insignia hanging in that tent. Adders being disbanded?

Wait. If it's a GC-related thing, due to the insignia being shown, and it looks to be something that's shareable between them all...and there's some sort of command table present...squadrons being part of GCs...

GARRISONS?!

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[MrTharne]

I'm pretty sure it's just to recreate this artwork but for SB.

[Anzaman]

Wait. If it's a GC-related thing, due to the insignia being shown, and it looks to be something that's shareable between them all...and there's some sort of command table present...squadrons being part of GCs...

GARRISONS?!

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Well, it was popular and WoW players loved it, so why not.