[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[requiemfordeath]

after extensive playtesting:
reaper is a sad clusterfuck of a buttonbloated class.
sage is jank, possibly undertuned and has shorter range on aoe healing for some unknown reason.

as someone who cleared ultimates as a WHM, sage makes me sweat for things that wouldnt even be an issue for WHM. Eukrasia is annoying and should be off the gcd, it causes clipping which leads to deaths. Multiple skills are worthless and wastes of space.

Like pepsis. Sounds good on paper, shit in reality. If the damage is so high that i need to use eukrasian prognosis, then the shield is going to get broken, rendering pepsis useless. If the shield does not get broken, then the party will be on full hp anyway, rendering pepsis...useless.
Zoe is a joke. a 90sec CD that makes ONE spell 50% stronger.
Pneuma is a linear heal. I cant even get people to stay in a 15y circular range of me, and you think people are going to line up in front of me while i use my 2.5 sec cast pissbeam? its especially heinous because you cant use it without an enemy target, and bosses often become untargetable during times where you actually need to have big burst heals

[minteK917]

Mabye im not understanding you, but how does Eukrasia clip? Its 1.0 sec gcd and the buffed ability gets 1.5 gcd. Both always align with 2.5 GCD. Granted i literally just started leveling it, since im a main tank. So i cant speak for its tuning for healing since shits relatively easy that i do for lvl at 72. But only biggest wtf is toxikon being kind of shit. This should be like blood lily, but its not even a dps gain lol wth?

[threads]

after extensive playtesting:
reaper is a sad clusterfuck of a buttonbloated class.
sage is jank, possibly undertuned and has shorter range on aoe healing for some unknown reason.

as someone who cleared ultimates as a WHM, sage makes me sweat for things that wouldnt even be an issue for WHM. Eukrasia is annoying and should be off the gcd, it causes clipping which leads to deaths. Multiple skills are worthless and wastes of space.

Like pepsis. Sounds good on paper, shit in reality. If the damage is so high that i need to use eukrasian prognosis, then the shield is going to get broken, rendering pepsis useless. If the shield does not get broken, then the party will be on full hp anyway, rendering pepsis...useless.
Zoe is a joke. a 90sec CD that makes ONE spell 50% stronger.
Pneuma is a linear heal. I cant even get people to stay in a 15y circular range of me, and you think people are going to line up in front of me while i use my 2.5 sec cast pissbeam? its especially heinous because you cant use it without an enemy target, and bosses often become untargetable during times where you actually need to have big burst heals

reaper "buttonbloated"
literally same # of buttons as every other melee

[Kathranis]

reaper "buttonbloated"
literally same # of buttons as every other melee

Now, I don't have much experience outside of DRG and SAM, but the difference to me is that it doesn't have a consistent rhythm and very few OGCD buttons. It's kind of like playing whackamole depending on when you need to reapply debuff, when the 50 soul gen CDs end, what points in your filler combo you hit 50 soul, and which positional shroud generator is amplified. Nothing really lines up neatly, you're constantly stopping one sequence of button presses to insert a higher potency sequence of buttons and it's pretty much all done without any OGCD weaving.

That's not to say I don't like it though. You basically have a nested builder/spender system. You work towards getting five "combo points" and then spend those to get a "super combo point" and when you have five of those you get to cash them in for a really fun window where you get to spam your 4-5 strongest attacks without any conditions.

And once you get a feel for how the parts fit together, you can do stuff like stock 100 soul and 100 shroud going into the boss room, which lets you Enshroud like 4-5 times per fight and results in barely needing to use your filler combo because you can just fit all the CD soul gen/avatar/shroud gen moves between Enshroud windows.

I'd say the job is solid from like levels 1-50 and 80-90. 1-50 you have a rhythm, weaving OGCD avatar attacks into your filler rotation every 50 soul. 80+ you get Enshroud which feels super rewarding.

But from 60-80, you lose the rhythm by inserting the positional shroud gen moves which have good potency, but without Enshroud don't give you any payoff to build toward.

[Merie]

It's not getting a 10 I'm sorry.

I've spent 20 minutes looking for 8 engineers over music that's beginning to make my ears bleed. It's such a sloggggggggggggg AGHHHHHHHHHHH.

NOT fun. It's a tragedy that so many amazing moments are punctuated with this filler nonsense that goes nowhere.

[Mojo03]

It's not getting a 10 I'm sorry.

I've spent 20 minutes looking for 8 engineers over music that's beginning to make my ears bleed. It's such a sloggggggggggggg AGHHHHHHHHHHH.

NOT fun. It's a tragedy that so many amazing moments are punctuated with this filler nonsense that goes nowhere.

I think that’s probably my big complaint too.

FF14 overdoes it with filler and Endwalker, while is mostly great, seems to be no exception to the slow and boring filler.

They really need to go heavier on editing in this game.

[Tojara]

They're pretty allergic to kill quests, and while I don't mind the comedic bits from time to time, they certainly overdo it with having those moments in each zone (or sometimes multiple times in each zone).

Not saying this game needs to be overflowing with more interactive questing in regards to combat, but the gear you get only really matters to speed up leveling when you aren't doing the MSQ on secondary jobs. As far as MSQ goes, gear largely doesn't matter because you get given everything you need (which is fine), but you don't really get to use it.

Interactive story bits are good when they're actually progressing the story, but when you're flooded in a sea of interactive quests that involve engagement of NPCs or clicking on locations I start to get fatigued. When you mention the 8 engineer thing I know exactly what location you're talking about lol. I felt like ShB did a way better job in regards to getting some combat flow into the zones, even if my comparison it's still not a whole lot compared to other games in the same genre.

TLDR; FF14 is different, story good, but leveling can be an absolute drag.

[Vakir]

The pacing and lack of direct action is especially egregious in a finale all about dealing with the Final Days, but then the Final Days comes about 50% into the game and the first trial, which has universe-changing implications, is followed with an hour or so with bunnies.

And I love the bunnies, but it was the absolute worst fucking place to put them tonally.

[CaptainV]

The pacing and lack of direct action is especially egregious in a finale all about dealing with the Final Days, but then the Final Days comes about 50% into the game and the first trial, which has universe-changing implications, is followed with an hour or so with bunnies.

And I love the bunnies, but it was the absolute worst fucking place to put them tonally.

The story is a closure of what amounts to 10 years worth of story, its not lacking pacing in any way or form, its wrapping up the pacing of 10 years of story from 1.0 to 6.0 in an epilogue that requires you to take your time.

The reason its not wow where you can basically finish the entire game in a day, is because the story isnt built to be done, in a day, it actually, if you really take your time studying every last nook, and cranny, and have completed everything from 2.0 (and its 8 man raid, 24 man raid) to 3.0 (8 man trials, 24 man, 8 man raid), to 4.0 (Repeat and include Eureka) and 5.0 (Including Bozja, yeah you can skip the 24 man and the 8 man this time, but the 8 man trial not so much).

It basically is designed to be a closure to setups from previous stories, its one your meant to enjoy the payoff to a fucktonne of buildup, is the pacing odd at times, yes, but it needs to be because your dealing with alot of threads of plot that need to come to a close.

This is brilliantly set up in such a way that the finale is just, perfect, it absoleutley feels like the closing chapter of an era, while feeling like the setup over this expansion for what may be comming next.

It leaves you with a satisfied nod that you've finished one journey and are ready to begin a new one.

I dare not, go into spoilers in depth because that would outright give away the entire point, though several already have, I will just say, honestly, it is worth the ride, especially the final steps from that long beginning to the closure of a saga.

Is it going to take someone literally MONTHS to get there? Yes, Should you complain, no, this isnt like other MMO's where FOMO is a real thing, the only FOMO content really that has ever existed in XIV has been seasonal events and thats it.

You can, at any time, do anything, at any point, and you wont be left behind because there is more than enough ways to catch up, this isnt a rush, so theres no need to rush.

Walk, and enjoy the long walk at a leisurely and paced stride, if that walk isnt for you, fair enough I understand, but it really, needs to be paced this way for the sake of the level of time crafted into making its payoff feel worth the journey, from 2.0 to 6.0

[Vakir]

The reason its not wow where you can basically finish the entire game in a day, is because the story isnt built to be done, in a day, it actually, if you really take your time studying every last nook, and cranny, and have completed everything from 2.0 (and its 8 man raid, 24 man raid) to 3.0 (8 man trials, 24 man, 8 man raid), to 4.0 (Repeat and include Eureka) and 5.0 (Including Bozja, yeah you can skip the 24 man and the 8 man this time, but the 8 man trial not so much).

Oh, and it rightly shouldn't be the kind of game where you plow through. But I think you're missing my point.

I agree FF14 excels when it's slow paced and chews its food. The slowed down moments help punctuate incredible highs, which is something most serotonin-spamming games need to learn from. I actually like pretty much everything with the exception of 2.1 through 2.55. And I loved Endwalker, too.

But there's definitely moments that are unrelated to resolving 1.0 through 6.0 that felt a bit overwrought and didn't add a lot to the experience. It had less to do with trying to rush through anything and more that it was a big disconnect from how immediate the stakes of the given story's moment are.

I'm reminded of - the first thing that comes to my mind is actually a game like Arkham City. Follow me on this, I know it's a very different game, lol. If I'm told in that "Protocol 11 happens in 2 hours!" and then I dick around for 15 hours and nothing happens, it kind of takes me out of things. Endwalker is definitely the exception to the rule where I felt, not like I needed to rush, but that I wanted to stay engaged in the main story to the end as part of the roleplaying experience.

Also, when I say that FF14 needs an editor, I don't mean REMOVING entire swathes of content or the world-building and relationship-building aspects of it. There's just ways they can convey a lot of the same content and the same mood while being 10-15% more efficient.

[kaminaris]

And there we go, XIV got award for best ongoing game.

[Vakir]

Well deserved. I'm still salty that René Zagger got the shaft in 2019 for performance, but TGA is more or less a glorified commercial.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

They're pretty allergic to kill quests, and while I don't mind the comedic bits from time to time, they certainly overdo it with having those moments in each zone (or sometimes multiple times in each zone).

I don't think it's just the lack of actual gameplay. It's also the pacing. In Endwalker, you have several extremely long stretches of the story where there is very little tension. Hours where it feels like nothing is happening and you're just watching a boring movie.

[Cthulhu 2020]

When people tell me the pacing in Endwalker is poor, and then they basically just admit that they didn't pay attention to most of the earlier story, I have to just chuckle.

For the rest, there's always something at stake, something happening or about to happen. Yes, even the bunny part was a big exposition that was somewhat important. When they take you on the tour of the ship, it punctuates just how little they understand about our culture, and to "flee the star" means to leave everything familiar behind and just "survive" without real life or concern. It pushes home the implications of fleeing vs staying and fighting. One is guaranteed life (maybe) but a dull existence, the other is maybe oblivion but saving all you know and are familiar with.

The expansion is filled with moments that feel slow, but they're filled with implications, hints, clues, or at the very least they underline more themes of the expansion.

I think the one thing they overdid was trying to jam every single major and semi major NPC into the story felt a bit hamfisted, but overall a great experience.


And man, FFXIV wins best ongoing game and best community at both golden joystick and game awards. That thread certainly turned into a shitshow of people who've never played the game coming in to dump on it.

[Vakir]

Like, I completely get WHY the bunny portion exists, the length of the comedy tone was just laid on a bit thick and I think they could condense certain portions a bit better in their pacing and execution. By the third comedy act of "hey look how incompetent they are with this being a workable domicile!" and then Urianger restating the central themes and concepts in the post-zone wrap-up for the dummies in the audience, I was like "I get it."

The central theming, the overall connection in terms of the setting and implications of each reveal, it's all very clear and transparent and works well (except for people in the spoiler thread who can't seem to move on from their grief). It can just be tightened. But "can be tightened" doesn't disqualify it from being pretty much what I was hoping for.

It's the inverse problem of Stormblood which rushed both of its settings, but especially Gyr Abania. But given how divisive it was, maybe truncating it was a good idea?

And man, FFXIV wins best ongoing game and best community at both golden joystick and game awards. That thread certainly turned into a shitshow of people who've never played the game coming in to dump on it.

When a 10 post account comes in and starts dumping fake spoilers originating from 4chan that end up not being true it drives home how truly lost some people are.

[Merie]

The game didn't need to be constant explosions or anything, and setup is necessary, but while Zone 5 perfectly pulls off the trick of making a slower paced area pleasant, engaging and interesting even though it was mostly low stakes until the dungeon, other parts of the game do not. The rabbits absolutely bring the momentum of the game to a brutal screeching halt and just goes on and on and on. The come back around 78 and bring all the momentum to a screeching halt again when you're fooling around finding engineers. Just screw the F off already. You're cute, but your content is a miserable slog to get through.

tl;dr Fooling around in Zone 5 good, fooling around in zone 4 bad.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I think the one thing they overdid was trying to jam every single major and semi major NPC into the story felt a bit hamfisted, but overall a great experience.

I think it was actually one of the better handled parts. Some people were also there, other not and the ones that aren't kinda make sense as well because they have their own issues to deal with or can't afford to jump into the fray. I mean it's the fucking end of days, everyone who isn't a twat better pitch in as well. The whole message is that you can only do it together and that isolationist agendas like the Sharlayan one are not the road to success. I actually wonder if I missed some parts, because I still haven't done all the alliance raids, I've even been noting down quest names of clear "ensemble cast" moments to revisit them to see if there are some I've been missing. I gotta admit though, I had completly forgotten about one person that died so long ago, I had to actually look up what their deal was.

[Drindorai]

I've seen a LOT of people complaining about the "talk to 8 people" quest on here but when I did it, I had no problem with it whatsoever. What was the misunderstanding? Even though you could potentially choose a bunch of others that don't progress the quest, the ones you should talk to are rather obvious from their name if you just read the quest text. If anything it was more, "Do you know what this adjective means?" in front of a bunch of NPC job titles like "Researcher," ect. The 8 you need to pick all have a pretty obvious theme to the adjective.

Like, I completely get WHY the bunny portion exists, the length of the comedy tone was just laid on a bit thick

Felt appropriate considering how oppressingly... depressing almost the entirety of the rest of the story is.

[Vakir]

Felt appropriate considering how oppressingly... depressing almost the entirety of the rest of the story is.

Comic relief is great! The scene with Estinien in the first half of Thavnair, for example, to offset how Giger-esque things end up being with that first tower, was well timed. I can't recall where, but I believe there was a mention somewhere in the main quest as it is where they described the very situation we're in as "some pathos and challenges with a little levity to prevent things from being too much" which I thought was hilarious as a fourth-wall lean. Maybe it was Shadowbringers. Those two blend together since Endwalker seems very much like a companion piece to it most of all.

It was the relative placement and the timing of the buns. The stakes JUST escalated in that moment so it's a weird spot to put them. Seconding that zone 5 was another good example of slow pace and some humor early on, between Emet-Selch being sour-ass Emet-Selch, Meteion being Meteion, and Hermes having his weird axolotol fuck off to do their own thing, leading to him falling out of a tree. It was a natural place to offset how rough things got in the second half of Thavnair, and it makes sense to halt because the time jump makes things less sensitive in terms of us needing to get stuff done with a certain urgency. And then of course things get dark from there and it hits home that much harder. It really enhances it!

It's all in execution and placement. Nobody sane is against comic relief in reference to a very dark story on the whole.

And bear in mind, all of this is just criticism from a place of love.

[Drindorai]

I guess I just see the tonal whiplash as intentional, it's absolutely supposed to feel like a break after what we just saw and the repercussions of what happened.

To be honest I didn't even consider virtually any of Zone 5 comedic relief, but more just a sad smile because the entire time you knew what was likely going to happen to close the loop.