[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Tojara]

It would certainly ruin the difficulty of the FF14 fights, considering how most of them play out with very few random elements.

I think I still take issue with the overall "bigwigs and DBM" play the game for you though. I've been a raid leader for too long to know that things like WA, addons or even a raid leader telling you where to go doesn't mean people are actually going to do it. Tunneling is certainly a thing. I watched friends do some ultimates before and despite having people physically call out abilities that were going to happen 5 seconds before they happened.. they still wiped because somebody didn't listen to their call out lo.

On that topic I'm not sure every ability would be able to be translated into an addon for FF14 anyways, due to how the encounters are. I suppose on a fight like the second one in savage where the boss either envelops the front of him, or everything behind him would have such an addon read the ability and say "front or back". At the same token I don't know how something like intemperance on savage would be able to read in game objects like the floating crystals to dictate whether you stay, move etc. I'm generally not a person in WoW that really used addons anyway, even when doing hard content, except under the rare exceptions where something was so outrageously designed that it was stupid not too (Mythic Azshara, Mythic Archimonde).

Regardless, people will take the path of least resistance and I know a lot of people will have a second monitor up with layouts of positioning (reminders) for certain parts of some savage fights. I've seen a few PF descriptions have links to them, so it's not a stretch that more organized groups with statics would be doing the same thing. Which is kind of like having an addon, even though it's pretty rudimentary lol.

At the end of the day though how this game handles addons is for the best. FF14 actually has a very good raiding game IMO, even if it's handled different than other MMOs. I think the only thing I take issue with on the raiding front in this game (and it's not unique to this game), is that some fights have terrible visual clarity, and some of the markers/colors they use that appear above your head somethings emphasize "style" as opposed to readability.

[KrayZ33]

It would certainly ruin the difficulty of the FF14 fights, considering how most of them play out with very few random elements.

I think I still take issue with the overall "bigwigs and DBM" play the game for you though. I've been a raid leader for too long to know that things like WA, addons or even a raid leader telling you where to go doesn't mean people are actually going to do it. Tunneling is certainly a thing. I watched friends do some ultimates before and despite having people physically call out abilities that were going to happen 5 seconds before they happened.. they still wiped because somebody didn't listen to their call out lo.

On that topic I'm not sure every ability would be able to be translated into an addon for FF14 anyways, due to how the encounters are. I suppose on a fight like the second one in savage where the boss either envelops the front of him, or everything behind him would have such an addon read the ability and say "front or back". At the same token I don't know how something like intemperance on savage would be able to read in game objects like the floating crystals to dictate whether you stay, move etc. I'm generally not a person in WoW that really used addons anyway, even when doing hard content, except under the rare exceptions where something was so outrageously designed that it was stupid not too (Mythic Azshara, Mythic Archimonde).

The abilities have spell-IDs for sure - both the "fake" or "real" version, or the "Top to Bottom" or "Bottom to Top" version if you look at Intemperance. The addon will just read that and tell you what to do.
Since positions are known too, they could probably point out everything with arrows as I doubt that the FFXIV API has any kind of limitations to it right now.
It's just a question of whether someone will do it or not.

As for people not following calls. I myself have trouble following them, but that's mostly on the guy calling it, or me listening to the guy calling it.
I hate it when people say shit in advance because I have to activiely ignore them as most calls are simply not universal enough.

During intemperance for example our call-out guy says "positions" -> get healed in the middle -> "positions" - being a "robot" and calling the shots so that everyone understands them correctly is not easy, so I give him some slack and just ignore and mute everything during that mechanic.

It totally fucks with my brain, because I interpret the second "positions" as "go to your corner", but that was just the 2nd Box (purple) and he actually meant that you should either switch (or not switch) your debuff.
When your mind is "programmed" to do what is being told or to listen to callouts, call out like these mess up your gameplay more than they help as the intention is not always clear.
Another example would be P3S, when the bird does Left/Right Cinderwing.
The callout guy does the correct call, but since I'm *always* in front of the bird when he starts casting I saved that mechanic as "always go the the direction of the spell-name" in my head.
"Right cinderwing -> Go right"
When our callout guy says "everyone go left" - he is technically right for those who are behind him, but I get confused for a second and have to ignore his call.
Even when he says "adjust to his left side" it's messing you up because you hear "left" and think "no... I have to go right - RIGHT!"

It gets even worse when he messes up himself and starts correcting it in the middle of the mechanic. Even more so when you already did the correct thing and start doubting your choices/positioning due to that.
(P2S for example... what's that mechanic called where he detaches himself from his body and everyone gets a marker again?)
Mods and Addons won't have that issue, they can always be adjusted to your specific position and role.

[Ghost of Cow]

I think I still take issue with the overall "bigwigs and DBM" play the game for you though. I've been a raid leader for too long to know that things like WA, addons or even a raid leader telling you where to go doesn't mean people are actually going to do it. Tunneling is certainly a thing. I watched friends do some ultimates before and despite having people physically call out abilities that were going to happen 5 seconds before they happened.. they still wiped because somebody didn't listen to their call out lo.

Yeah, it gets overblown a lot. It's just another one of those dumb, "My game is better than your game!" things. (And hey, since the mods play the game for you, everyone clears Mythic as soon as the mods are updated...right?)

The funny part is that I've met people in XIV who are kinda new to MMOs and haven't touched WoW, and they've heard "mods play the game for you in WoW" so many times that they seriously think that WoW plays something like Cookie Clicker.

[Aucald]

I will say that raid and dungeon encounters took some getting used to in FF14 when coming from my experience in WoW. DBM and other add-ins definitely add to that, but there's some aspects of FF14's encounter design I found a bit awkward. The "this attack will land here in X seconds" type telegraphing is nice and easily understandable, but there are some other indicators that I was confused about. One of the ones I had to learn right quickly was the "stack here" indicator, although it's appearance and general function change pretty often. FF14 has a lot more graphical effects in its encounter design than WoW does in the general sense, I've found; and these can sometimes be difficult to differentiate at a glance.

I did find a handy visual guide covering most of them, however; and doing a little homework has made the process of adapting much easier.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Again, stop talking about "leveling roulette".

You're the one who said leveling roulette should always offer the bonus exp rather than being once daily. Now you're trying to tell me it's not about the leveling roulette? So people would just get random dungeons that are in the leveling roulette and offer the same exp but it wouldn't be leveling roulette? Do you even listen to your own arguments?

I've answered your question. You don't like the answer because it demolishes what you said. It would invalidate the other roulettes and the nature of their daily bonus meaning they'd be used far less than they are. That's the entire nature of roulettes. They are a once a day bonus.

Here's the thing, you could have offered an alternative solution that wouldn't invalidate the other daily roulettes, like adjusting exp levels of the various roulettes, separating 50 60 70 80 into 4 separate roulettes each on par with leveling, etc.

But instead of offering alternatives to the way your suggestion would break the system, you just threw another tantrum because you don't like the answer.

Again, bring something new to the conversation. Stop repeating the same tired thing that's already been tossed aside.


Players will always take the path of least resistance. To deny that your suggestion would invalidate the other roulettes is to completely ignore this basic fact about player behavior.

- - - Updated - - -

Which is fantastic. For you.

And basically the entire population. This is the very first time after playing this game for almost 7 years that I've heard this kind of odd suggestion that leveling roulette (or an alternative way of effectively doing the leveling roulette and getting the same exp for doing low level dungeons) should be repeatable. It would just make the other roulettes worthless, as players would simply take the path of least resistance. I did a leveling roulette earlier, and an at level dungeon actually offered a bit less. If you can only play on weekends, then spam those higher level dungeons. You only need to do them 4-5 times to get through 2 levels. Either that or do FATEs. If you're a tank or healer, the dungeon route is faster than FATEs, if you're a DPS just do FATEs. Or spam palace of the dead.

SE has offered a multitude of ways to level up quickly.

Come on people, you can do better than this. There's better ways of suggesting a 27th way to level up your character than trying to make the daily roulettes pointless.

For me, the system would be perfect if I could stack up those daily roulettes and do them all at once.

See, a banking system is actually a cool suggestion. Similar to leves, yes, that would be nice. Do I see SE doing it? No. But at least you're better about providing suggestions than others.

[Ghost of Cow]

I've answered your question. You don't like the answer because it demolishes what you said. It would invalidate the other roulettes and the nature of their daily bonus meaning they'd be used far less than they are. That's the entire nature of roulettes. They are a once a day bonus.

Here's the thing, you could have offered an alternative solution that wouldn't invalidate the other daily roulettes, like adjusting exp levels of the various roulettes, separating 50 60 70 80 into 4 separate roulettes each on par with leveling, etc.

Holy fucking shit, you literally do not read, do you?

You can't "invalidate other roulettes" because we're talking about people who are already spamming one dungeon. They're not DOING other roulettes because they've either already done them, or don't want to because of the XP/hour.

Again, they're not doing other roulettes in this scenario anyway. They're already doing something else that gives the most XP. Nothing about the scenario I'm talking about changes that.

I don't know how many fucking times it needs to be said. I don't even know if it's possible to pound something into your head because all you want to do is disagree with anything that's said.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Holy fucking shit, you literally do not read, do you?

Considering half the time you say things that are just factually incorrect according to the story or just don't even read my posts before just launching off on your self righteous tirades, I ask that of you. Every post of yours in the spoiler thread is just demonstrating you do not read anything

What does it matter if it's leveling roulette or some magical new random dungeon roulette that can be done eternally? It invalidates both the leveling roulette and the others if it can be done eternally. People already having the option to grind dungeons, or do only the roulettes. You wanna grind? You do the same content over and over. You want once a day? The roulettes. The roulettes give more exp for time expended, spamming dungeons allows you to do more than just the daily stuff but it's a bit slower.

That's literally the design philosophy, grind the same shit if you want to go faster. Dailies if you don't. GC turn ins vs leves. Roulettes vs grind.

Again, stop crying just because you don't like the answer.

[Ghost of Cow]

Whatever. You're not even worth it. Go troll someone else.

[Cthulhu 2020]

"Let's add a leveling roulette that's exactly like the leveling roulette but not the leveling roulette so you can do it forever and ever. This TOTALLY wouldn't make people just want to do this new thing eternally!"

If this new magical not-leveling roulette gave about 75% of the exp of leveling roulette/at-level dungeons then maybe it'd be feasible and wouldn't break the core philosophy of why the roulettes even exist in the first place.

[dope_danny]

People have started to notice stuff like this in the Heavensward and Stormblood concept art. Boy they have been dangling some stuff in front of us since the ps3 days huh?

[dlld]

"Let's add a leveling roulette that's exactly like the leveling roulette but not the leveling roulette so you can do it forever and ever. This TOTALLY wouldn't make people just want to do this new thing eternally!"

If this new magical not-leveling roulette gave about 75% of the exp of leveling roulette/at-level dungeons then maybe it'd be feasible and wouldn't break the core philosophy of why the roulettes even exist in the first place.

You want to level and have the time to run 5 dungeons and want the most xp and you are lvl 47

How that looks today
Leveling roulette: 200k xp Sastasha
Highest level dungeon 100k xp Aurum Vale
Highest level dungeon 100k xp Aurum Vale
Highest level dungeon 100k xp Aurum Vale
Highest level dungeon 100k xp Aurum Vale

What only doing leveling roulette looks like today
Leveling roulette: 200k xp Sastasha
Leveling roulette: 80k xp Stone Vigil
Leveling roulette: 40k xp Hauke manor
Leveling roulette: 50k xp Brayflox
Leveling roulette: 30k xp Toto-rak

What he suggests
Leveling roulette: 200k xp Sastasha
Leveling roulette: 100k xp Stone Vigil
Leveling roulette: 100k xp Hauke manor
Leveling roulette: 100k xp Brayflox
Leveling roulette: 100k xp Toto-rak

[Faldric]

People have started to notice stuff like this in the Heavensward and Stormblood concept art. Boy they have been dangling some stuff in front of us since the ps3 days huh?

I think this is too far fetched. There are two artworks so far with a blue bird. This one is from an artbook about the autumn dress and accessories like apples and birds just look good with this kind of image. The coloring is also typical for this kind of image: e.g. [IMG]https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portrait/mw283428[/IMG]. Chances are the bird is just there for the blue color.

I don't think this has some deeper meaning. At best, the same artist that created this image was also tasked to "design a blue bird".

[Xeenith]

could those artwork been changed silently in a few patches before or at EW release ?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

could those artwork been changed silently in a few patches before or at EW release ?

I think it's more likely that when the art team was making the character designs for Endwalker, they looked back through their catalogue of art and saw the two-tailed bird, and thought "that's a cool design, let's reuse it".

[Ghost of Cow]

You want to level and have the time to run 5 dungeons and want the most xp and you are lvl 47

How that looks today
Leveling roulette: 200k xp Sastasha
Highest level dungeon 100k xp Aurum Vale
Highest level dungeon 100k xp Aurum Vale
Highest level dungeon 100k xp Aurum Vale
Highest level dungeon 100k xp Aurum Vale

What only doing leveling roulette looks like today
Leveling roulette: 200k xp Sastasha
Leveling roulette: 80k xp Stone Vigil
Leveling roulette: 40k xp Hauke manor
Leveling roulette: 50k xp Brayflox
Leveling roulette: 30k xp Toto-rak

What he suggests
Leveling roulette: 200k xp Sastasha
Leveling roulette: 100k xp Stone Vigil
Leveling roulette: 100k xp Hauke manor
Leveling roulette: 100k xp Brayflox
Leveling roulette: 100k xp Toto-rak

Yep, exactly that.

I mean, everyone is free to say, "I don't like that idea." of course. But it'd be nice if someone arguing so fervently against it at least understood what was being talked about.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I think it's more likely that when the art team was making the character designs for Endwalker, they looked back through their catalogue of art and saw the two-tailed bird, and thought "that's a cool design, let's reuse it".

Gotta agree there. Sounds way more plausible. I doubt they planned that far ahead with the details, especially since the form is rather inconsequential.

[Ghost of Cow]

Gotta agree there. Sounds way more plausible. I doubt they planned that far ahead with the details, especially since the form is rather inconsequential.

Indeed, they themselves have been honest about not really planning details that far in advance.

[Thoughtcrime]

Indeed, they themselves have been honest about not really planning details that far in advance.

I often wonder about this and how much it applies to FF14 overall considering they have a bunch of writers working on it at a time. I don't think everything is plotted out far in advance but it would be interesting to know how much of the foreshadowing is purposeful vs retconned. There are lines all the way back in ARR alluding to what Hydaelyn is for example that I'm sure were not planned to be seen as such, but there are lines in 4.0 that hint toward other characters and things that DO seem purposeful.

Temulun: You, wait. I would have words.

Temulun: A singular radiance. Shimmering. Like a jewel of the Dusk Mother, blinding in its brilliance.

Temulun: Stars flicker and flock to you. Before such gathered light, even the secrets of the gods may be laid bare.

Temulun: Some are fated to rise in grace and glory. Others to falter and fade, though not from memory. Both will be your strength and salvation come the end.

Temulun: Cherish the stars and the light they bring you in the dark. For you are a traveler, are you not?

I can't remember exactly when this conversation takes place, either before the party heads to Bardam's Mettle, before the Naadam or before heading to The Burn but regardless this dialogue bears no relation to the events occurring at the time and considering this happens on the Azim Steppe which is a part of Stormblood written by Shadowbringer's lead writer Natsuko Ishikawa I think this was an example of clearly intended foreshadowing.

Herein I commit the chronicle of the traveler. Shepherd to the stars in the dark. Though the world be sundered and our souls set adrift, where you walk, my dearest friend, fate shall surely follow.

To me it seems like most things are vaguely defined very early which gives them leeway to abandon or further develop plot threads unobtrusively, and more substantially planned out in the preceding expansion's post-release content. For example, Bahamut's consort Tiamat was introduced way back in Heavensward, we freed her toward the end of Shadowbringer and if I were to guess, Endwalker's MSQ patch cycle will reintroduce her and/or Hraesvelgar/Midgardsomr leading into the next expansion that I believe will take place primarily in Meracydia (potentially also the Dragon's homeworld).

[StrawberryZebra]

So I've gotten around to leveling Gunbreaker and giving Sage a try. The only way they could be any clunkier is if there was an audiable *THUNK* sound every time you pressed a key.

Gunbreaker is awful for trying to both move things and use tank cooldowns during continuation. FF14 isn't always the most responsive at the best of times, but I'm hitting Nebula frantically during my continuation combo because I want to use it *now*, not whenever the game decides it can fit it in. That third cartridge also makes fitting everything you want into No Mercy seem almost impossible, unless I'm missing something here?

Also I finally realised that your AoE skill is not, as I originally read it, Demons Laughter, but Demon Slaughter. The more you know!

Sage feels like an experiment gone wrong. I get where they were going with Eukrasia but in practice it all feels very button bashy, particularly at the start of a pull when you're DoTing things up while the tank rounds things up. The 1.5 sec GCD on it also feels bad - Although it makes the enhanced spells instant, you still have the GCD at the end. Pressing two buttons rapid fire feels worse than something like Adlo or a healer DoT. It also never feels like a decision which really matters to me either.

In my head, I think of Eukrasia as being like a stance to give you access to a different special move set. Only I'm not locked into it until I use it, and I don't lose the use of anything that would make it a trade off. Without there being a cost/benefit to it to weigh up, it just feels like an extra button you have to press for the sake of it. Of course, I get that without it you'a have more total buttons you need to key bind, but I'd still prefer that to something like Eukrasia. By trying to save on bind space, you're instead paying that cost in extra button presses. And that's not a tradeoff that works out well imo.

They both clearly highlight why pressing more buttons doesn't always mean more fun.

[Ghost of Cow]

Yeah, Sage was a pretty big letdown, honestly.

It's nice of them to address button bloat with the whole Eukrasia thing, but it's a mashy pain in the ass. It's nice that you can cast Adlos on the move with it, at least, but still.

That and the whole "heal by doing damage" thing really isn't. It's just a replacement for Regen/Fairy/etc, not a job mechanic that feels fun and meaningful.

It's a strong job wrapped up in a boring package. The only nice part are the spell effects, honestly.