Health care law ruled constitutional

[stabetha]

Could you rephrase? As near as I can tell, you're framing a situation in which you work for 20 hours but get paid for 50, that's not getting out what you put in.

a better example is under socialism everyone doing a particular job gets the same pay no matter how hard they work so why do any more then the least possible?

Only if the US supreme court rules that the federal government has the power to over-ride the states on this issue.

no thats why the dea still bust dispensaries because it's a federal law even if the state made it legal

Are you telling me, then, that the president could advocate any level of military spending and foreign involvement, and that you'd take his word for it without question, due to his position as Commander in Chief?

no budget spending is set by congress not the president.

[Wells]

a better example is under socialism everyone doing a particular job gets the same pay no matter how hard they work so why do any more then the least possible?

That's communism. Not socialism.

[nogard64]

I think I just read Bill O'Reilly's transcript from last night.

I suggest going back and reading each of your sentences, fact-checking them, then re-word your statement so it doesn't sound so callous and selfish.

LOL with all due respect its called being realistic and pragmatic, its why socialist countries are failing, its why Europe is failing, its why China has abandoned communism, its why Russia collapsed. Liberals call it selfish, but growing up it was called individuality and privacy, and having personal responsibility. And still with all due respect I really do not want to share any kind of responsibility or space or even country with the likes of you.

[Pert]

no thats why the dea still bust dispensaries because it's a federal law even if the state made it legal

I suppose the supreme court could decline to hear the case, in which case (as is) the individual mandate would be held constitutional and enforceable.

no budget spending is set by congress not the president.

I said advocate, not set.

Dude down the street doesn't have health insurance. He has a heart attack from eating hamburgers and smoking his whole life. He goes to the hospital, can't afford the triply bypass surgery. Who pays? We all do. My insurance went up because hospital costs went up.

If my actions result in consequences that involve me and me alone, you have a point. Mandates for buying health insurance doesn't fit your argument.

Generally speaking, Mr. Smoker is going to die an early death and save us all a lot of money on Social Security, Medicare, etc.

[ptwonline]

Anyone who is against universal health care in a nation as wealthy as America is, IMO, either incredibly mean-spirited and doesn't care if their friends and neighbors suffer unnecessarily, benefits from keep care limited, or else crazy. The old system of voluntary medical insurance through private insurers was making the system cost far more than it should and killing thousands of people in the process.

So-called "Obamacare" is bad legislation. However, the reason it is bad is because it wasn't allowed to go far enough. All the pieces that it needs to fit together to improve the whole thing were not allowed to pass, and so as a result you have only a sliver of a solution that will probably just make things worse overall.

The solution is not to scrap it. The solution is to pass the other pieces--primarily cost control measures. The status quo before health care reform was completely unacceptable. Repealing what has already been done to get back to square one isn't a solution. It's jumping out of the fire and back into the frying pan when instead you should be trying to get out of the frying pan AND the fire.

[Wells]

LOL with all due respect its called being realistic and pragmatic, its why socialist countries are failing, its why Europe is failing,

Actually many parts of Europe are doing quite fine. Germany for instance has very strong socialist policies and is one of the healthiest countries in the world.

Your statements have little bearing on reality.

[Dewragg]

Anyone who is against universal health care in a nation as wealthy as America is, IMO, either incredibly mean-spirited and doesn't care if their friends and neighbors suffer unnecessarily, benefits from keep care limited, or else crazy. The old system of voluntary medical insurance through private insurers was making the system cost far more than it should and killing thousands of people in the process.

So-called "Obamacare" is bad legislation. However, the reason it is bad is because it wasn't allowed to go far enough. All the pieces that it needs to fit together to improve the whole thing were not allowed to pass, and so as a result you have only a sliver of a solution that will probably just make things worse overall.

The solution is not to scrap it. The solution is to pass the other pieces--primarily cost control measures. The status quo before health care reform was completely unacceptable. Repealing what has already been done to get back to square one isn't a solution. It's jumping out of the fire and back into the frying pan when instead you should be trying to get out of the frying pan AND the fire.

would you care to tell me why its over 4,000 pages long? and is filled with crap not even related to healthcare?

[Kivimetsan]

Being forced to sign onto something and written by the insurance companies, is a total joke... It just takes less decision making away from the doctor and gives all that power to the insurance companies, I dont see how that is fair.

I also dont understand how the US has it so wrong, I know in my country we have 'basically' free health care, sure we pay a lot of taxes but so do you guys, but for example if I cut my finger off in an accident I would go to hospital and they would sew it back on straight away for free, give me a bed for the night and give me dinner. If this happened in the US, you would either have to pay a stupid amount for it to be done or be insured which is stupidly over priced.

Obama should have fixed the real issues, which is over priced health care in general, i.e. the drugs first responders are on are a ridiculous price, fix those types of things first, put money into a program that would decrease the cost of drugs which you can buy in most other countries for WAY LESS than what you pay in the US. The drug and medicine industry is to overpriced in the US... thats why health care is such a big issues, learn from Aus and Scandinavian countries, and you'll be fine.

[ptwonline]

LOL with all due respect its called being realistic and pragmatic, its why socialist countries are failing, its why Europe is failing, its why China has abandoned communism, its why Russia collapsed. Liberals call it selfish, but growing up it was called individuality and privacy, and having personal responsibility. And still with all due respect I really do not want to share any kind of responsibility or space or even country with the likes of you.

The nations in the world with the best economies and highest standards of living are the so-called socialist countries.

I also hope you realize that America is pretty much a socialist nation as well. Sure they are missing a few things that other socialist countries have, but on the whole it is pretty socialist and overall they are better for it.

[Wells]

What does the number of pages matter?

[ptwonline]

would you care to tell me why its over 4,000 pages long? and is filled with crap not even related to healthcare?

Probably because Obama allowed too many people and parties to have input into it for too long of a time period in the name of "consensus". That's how most Washington bills end up: all sorts of additional crap added on that may not be related at all because people need to be bribed to accept it.

It's also why it ended up as a bad bill.

[stabetha]

I forgot, what was the Republican alternative to the Affordable Care Act? Oh right, 'If you get sick, die quickly'.

If Republicans/Conservatives all hate government healthcare/programs so much, each and everyone needs to opt out of their Congressional healthcare if they are in Congress, and opt out of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. After all, they hate socialized medicine/welfare, so they shouldn't be taking the money from the government.

no that's just what msnbc wants you to believe plenty of republicans have said our healthcare system needs reforms the majority say torte reform needs to happen because that is why healthcare is so expensive (doctors have to carry huge malpractice insurance policies because of the frivolous lawsuits).

if you want to go down that road why do liberals care more for a sick old man that has lived a full life then an unborn baby with their whole life in front of them?

and in all honesty please stop calling republicans conservatives, they haven't been conservative in decades.

[ptwonline]

What does the number of pages matter?

For some reason a certain group of people seem to think simple solutions are better, no matter how complex and wide-ranging the issue it is dealing with. I assume it's sort of the "I don't understand it all so therefore it must be easy" mindset that affects people on things they don't really know about. That's why something like a flat tax or a "9-9-9" plan resonates so well.

[Deleted]

would you care to tell me why its over 4,000 pages long? and is filled with crap not even related to healthcare?

It's not like anyone had actually read the bill before they cast their vote.

[Dewragg]

What does the number of pages matter?

number of pages is a dig at the whole deal because its filled with crap that has NOTHING to do with healthcare.

[Kivimetsan]

Anyone who is against universal health care in a nation as wealthy as America is, IMO, either incredibly mean-spirited and doesn't care if their friends and neighbors suffer unnecessarily, benefits from keep care limited, or else crazy. The old system of voluntary medical insurance through private insurers was making the system cost far more than it should and killing thousands of people in the process.

So-called "Obamacare" is bad legislation. However, the reason it is bad is because it wasn't allowed to go far enough. All the pieces that it needs to fit together to improve the whole thing were not allowed to pass, and so as a result you have only a sliver of a solution that will probably just make things worse overall.

The solution is not to scrap it. The solution is to pass the other pieces--primarily cost control measures. The status quo before health care reform was completely unacceptable. Repealing what has already been done to get back to square one isn't a solution. It's jumping out of the fire and back into the frying pan when instead you should be trying to get out of the frying pan AND the fire.

Being forced into paying company by your government IS WRONG.

It sets the precedence for further government/corporate agendas which leads to fascism... plus why take peoples liberties away? The amount of tax people pay in the US is surely enough to pay for healthcare, the tax rate in Aus (we have free health care and health insurance, and actually the free can sometimes be better than the one you pay for here) and US is very similar, just cut some 'military spending' (not defence spending) and put that into healthcare, and you have free healthcare.

...or you could just regulate the drug industry, lower there prices, gives subsidies to new companies so they can compete and keep the same form of insure or not insure health policy, because the price of drugs and everything else in the system is beyond a joke and those companies should be investigated.

[Deleted]

Today, without Obamacare, if Johnny crashes and has no insurance? We all pay for it anyway!

No, we don't. He and his family maybe does.

Today, without Obamacare, if someone eats themselves into a heart attack and has no insurance? We all pay for it anyway!

No, we don't.

There's no valid efficiency argument in favor of Obamacare. To be more neutral, there's no real efficiency argument in favor of the current US healthcare system either. They're all inefficient compared to the "system" that existed 40 years ago in the US. The only argument is a moral one.

[nogard64]

The nations in the world with the best economies and highest standards of living are the so-called socialist countries.

I also hope you realize that America is pretty much a socialist nation as well. Sure they are missing a few things that other socialist countries have, but on the whole it is pretty socialist and overall they are better for it.

What drugs are you on? Have you looked outside? Have you seen the protests in every city? have you seen the poverty levels? Have you seen the foreclosure rates? Have you seen how badly Americans are struggling? my jaws are on the floor right now at your statement that you think things are fine? have you seen what liberal, and democrats have done to this country? and yes nod your head and please tell me you know that congress has been controlled by majority of democrats for 90% of the time for the past 40-50 years, thus resulting in the heavy socialist shift.

And the country you talk about in Europe doing well have taken extreme austerity measures to cut back on social programs to just survive, do you watch the news at all or just rehash what MSN-BS tells you to say?

Mod Warning: Watch the personal attacks

[kivipää]

would you care to tell me why its over 4,000 pages long? and is filled with crap not even related to healthcare?

Because the two parties are mostly childish fucks who don't give a shit about anything else than slapping each other, and most of of that 4k pages is nitpicking due to needles bickering that is detrimental to the country?

[Deleted]

Because the two parties are mostly childish fucks who don't give a shit about anything else than slapping each other, and most of of that 4k pages is nitpicking due to needles bickering that is detrimental to the country?

There's alot of money involved on both sides. They don't argue just for the sake of it.