Sargeras vs Old Gods

[Yarathir]

The point is that if the Titans had the inclination to do so, they could easily destroy Azeroth and the Old Gods.

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Few things...
It would be logical to assume she has Neptulon's trident, but I would think that it may be retconned as Blizzard has shown disdain for the entire idea.
Azshara is weaker than Archimonde but stronger than Mannoroth. She has the potential to be something great, but in the grand scheme of things she isn't that special.
The Old God's don't have what is the equivalent of a "right hand man," it's more that they see things as more useful and less useful minions.
Deathwing was, to be fair, a bit of a push over and a very poorly written villain.

Could be that that was retconned. And yeah, she was weaker than Archimonde, but that was pre-Old Godification. And we know what the Old God upgrade did to Deathwing. Might not be stronger than Archimonde now, but she's probably pretty strong.

What we saw of him was weak, but lore/story-wise, he was very strong, and what I meant with right and left hands is that they are both somewhat around the same caliber, leading a group each, fighting for the Old Gods.


My point is that having a 'nuke' button doesn't mean that they are physically stronger than Old Gods. Them being able to reshape the world with some hax device does not mean they would win from the Old Gods in a "fair fight".

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Seriously, Sargeras would fart and the Old Gods would all die. He has power on a cosmic scale. The Old Gods are insidious but they are not actually that powerful. They just like to talk themselves up because fear is one of their weapons.

The Titans could've killed them easily, they decided not to because it would imperil life on Azeroth.

Wrong. Sargeras is a Pantheon, and once their strongest SOLDIER. Soldier, not the strongest Titan. That means he's the strongest Titan when it comes to fighting with weapons.



And the Old Gods we've faced are at a minor minuscule fraction of their true power. 5 Old Gods at full power would leave Sargeras weeping, and I'm not even willing to leave that to be an "uncertainty" unless Blizzard retcons Old God power. It's logical that 5 or more Old Gods would break Sargeras. Sargeras is a strong Titan, but still one Titan. You can be the biggest fanboy of Sargeras, but there has to be a time when you have to admit that even Sargeras can not win.

[Lolretadin]

Could be that that was retconned. And yeah, she was weaker than Archimonde, but that was pre-Old Godification. And we know what the Old God upgrade did to Deathwing. Might not be stronger than Archimonde now, but she's probably pretty strong.

What we saw of him was weak, but lore/story-wise, he was very strong, and what I meant with right and left hands is that they are both somewhat around the same caliber, leading a group each, fighting for the Old Gods.


My point is that having a 'nuke' button doesn't mean that they are physically stronger than Old Gods. Them being able to reshape the world with some hax device does not mean they would win from the Old Gods in a "fair fight".

It's not a hacks device, Aman'thul has the capacity to actually create a planet. They can, united, destroy the Old Gods and effectively remove them from existence. Hell, there aren't even many fighters in the Pantheon, only Aggramar and Golganneth were "fighters" of any caliber.

Wrong. Sargeras is a Pantheon, and once their strongest SOLDIER. Soldier, not the strongest Titan. That means he's the strongest Titan when it comes to fighting with weapons.



And the Old Gods we've faced are at a minor minuscule fraction of their true power. 5 Old Gods at full power would leave Sargeras weeping, and I'm not even willing to leave that to be an "uncertainty" unless Blizzard retcons Old God power. It's logical that 5 or more Old Gods would break Sargeras. Sargeras is a strong Titan, but still one Titan. You can be the biggest fanboy of Sargeras, but there has to be a time when you have to admit that even Sargeras can not win.

Sargeras was the champion of the Titans themselves, he was their first and last line of defense against those that would threaten them.
It also needs to be stated that the Old Gods, in truth, are not as big a deal as people make them out to be. It's easy to see that they aren't omniscient as they consistently lose to the heroes of Azeroth, and people seem to ignore the fact that the reason C'thun acted was because he believed he had recovered enough to be able to retake Azeroth.
Sargeras could easily take the entirety of the known Old Gods, minus N'zoth who is known to have the power of multiple Old Gods. At any rate, a direct fight would be irrelevant as the world would be dealing with Sargeras, Kil'jaeden, and the Legion; there would never be an instance of just Sargeras vs all the Old Gods, it would be Sargeras and the Legion vs the Old Gods, which would be a loss on the side of the Old Gods by quite a large margin.

[Yarathir]

It's not a hacks device, Aman'thul has the capacity to actually create a planet. They can, united, destroy the Old Gods and effectively remove them from existence. Hell, there aren't even many fighters in the Pantheon, only Aggramar and Golganneth were "fighters" of any caliber.

Whoa, whoa. Hold up now. No they can't, and no they didn't. The Titans shaped them, they did not create the planets. The best they did was create mountains.


And yes it is. We don't equate dropping a nuke on a country as a fair fight, can we? Possessing a nuke does not mean that said country is the strongest country and could win a war on equal terms, now is it? Therefore, you can't say "Titans can reset Azeroth" means "Titans are instantly > all the Old Gods". That's just weak.

Sargeras was the champion of the Titans themselves, he was their first and last line of defense against those that would threaten them.
It also needs to be stated that the Old Gods, in truth, are not as big a deal as people make them out to be. It's easy to see that they aren't omniscient as they consistently lose to the heroes of Azeroth, and people seem to ignore the fact that the reason C'thun acted was because he believed he had recovered enough to be able to retake Azeroth.

You and other Sargeras fans make the mistake of equating "Champion of the Pantheon" for "the strongest Titan to have ever existed". It's not true. It just isn't. By the same logic, I can refute that by saying Aman'thul is the leader of the Pantheon, and the leaders of groups with power are usually stronger than its members, else those members will not follow that aforementioned leader. It is the simple rule of authority.

Sargeras simply champions their cause, and he is a great soldier. He walked planets, eradicating demons and other forms of evil for the Titans, and to further their cause. And even so, Sargeras being the strongest being and him being weaker than multiple Old Gods do not contradict each other. Sargeras can still be the strongest. The strongest is measured by 'one on one' strength. Sargeras could be ripped apart by two Old Gods and still be the strongest in the universe, because he would rip apart a Titan or Old God 1v1.


And another mistake you made: we can defeat the Old Gods, so they're weaker than people think they are? That's just silly. It has been stated multiple times before that Old Gods are at a minuscule, minuscule, minuscule fraction of their true power. It's like saying "Sargeras is super weak because Aegwynn destroyed his Avatar.", and I don't see anyone doing that.


C'Thun made a mistake. He had expected dragons to come through, and he was well-prepared for those. He was not expecting the mortals, and that's why he was defeated. Also, after the initial war, and the barrier (you know, the Gates of Ahn'Qiraj event which was all about removing that barrier) being erected, C'Thun's intention was to go back to regaining more and more power, while also driving mad any dragon that got inside anyway, so that would bolster the strength of his army.

Sargeras could easily take the entirety of the known Old Gods, minus N'zoth who is known to have the power of multiple Old Gods. At any rate, a direct fight would be irrelevant as the world would be dealing with Sargeras, Kil'jaeden, and the Legion; there would never be an instance of just Sargeras vs all the Old Gods, it would be Sargeras and the Legion vs the Old Gods, which would be a loss on the side of the Old Gods by quite a large margin.

N'Zoth is not known to have the power of multiple Old Gods. It's simply said that the Titans could not defeat him for whatever reason, and Sargeras can not easily take the entirety of the known Old Gods at full power. It's a simply 5 > 1 rule. We know Old Gods are between Archimonde - Titan level at the very least. Stronger than Archimonde, and around the level of a Titan or stronger in some cases. Sargeras is strong, but you wouldn't say he is easily able to defeat the entirety of the Pantheon either. That's just blind fanboying. Sorry, but it's just that way.



And while you may be right about the Burning Legion being huge, the Faceless and Old God army is also nigh endless. They could just enslave the elements again (minus Al'akir and Ragnaros, because those are effectively vanquished), empower Azshara, bring forth all their faceless from the very soil and earth, and the naga from the depths of the seas.
On top of that, the nightmare is filled with horrific creatures, as well as Druids of the Nightmare. Several demonic creatures were also enslaved, like satyr. (Xavius)


Then on top of that, you have the Twilight Hammer. I'm pretty sure it'd be a huge battle, but the Old God forces would, imo, logically come out on top.


And that's just what it is. The name is "Sargeras vs Old Gods". This means it's Sargeras versus the five Azeroth Old Gods, and presumably at full-power. You really want to imply that one Titan, no matter how empowered and corrupted he may be, could destroy five (or four, minus Y'Shaarj - but it looks like he too might come back with some work) Titan-killing, mind-controlling, chaotic creatures on his own? It's a simple 2>1, or 4>1 case. Now Sargeras may be a 2 or 2.5, but he's not a 4 or a 5. There's just no way one can say that with a straight face.



Unless Blizzard retcons the Old Gods and Sargeras, explicitly stating that he is on the level of four to six titans. Then maybe. But until then, it's just a jump to assume one is stronger than the other, but at the very least, we can take a logical leap and assume five Old Gods can take on one empowered Titan.


Of course, this implies that the Old Gods would work together to defeat Sargeras, which is not at all a certainty. It's possible for sure, because they have worked together before, but in general, they do not. At the end of the day, it's a simple, hypothetical question, that I feel is logically answered by "five fully-powered old gods working in unison > one titan".

[Deleted]

At full power N'zoth was capable of defeating both C'thun and Yogg-saron.
He is thought to be the strongest because the Pantheon either couldn't or wouldn't contain/kill him. The latter (killing him) is most likely due to what happened with Y'shaarj.

If he defeated them they where pretty sure no more. It is only stated that he fought eternal war. As all old gods didn't like each other they fought eternal war agianst each other. It is possible that N'Zoth is the strongest I want more prove to believe that

Also that he escaped dead or sleep for a long time doesn't mean that he is the strongest. Also the same thing happened with C'thun

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Whoa, whoa. Hold up now. No they can't, and no they didn't. The Titans shaped them, they did not create the planets. The best they did was create mountains.


And yes it is. We don't equate dropping a nuke on a country as a fair fight, can we? Possessing a nuke does not mean that said country is the strongest country and could win a war on equal terms, now is it? Therefore, you can't say "Titans can reset Azeroth" means "Titans are instantly > all the Old Gods". That's just weak.




You and other Sargeras fans make the mistake of equating "Champion of the Pantheon" for "the strongest Titan to have ever existed". It's not true. It just isn't. By the same logic, I can refute that by saying Aman'thul is the leader of the Pantheon, and the leaders of groups with power are usually stronger than its members, else those members will not follow that aforementioned leader. It is the simple rule of authority.

Sargeras simply champions their cause, and he is a great soldier. He walked planets, eradicating demons and other forms of evil for the Titans, and to further their cause. And even so, Sargeras being the strongest being and him being weaker than multiple Old Gods do not contradict each other. Sargeras can still be the strongest. The strongest is measured by 'one on one' strength. Sargeras could be ripped apart by two Old Gods and still be the strongest in the universe, because he would rip apart a Titan or Old God 1v1.


And another mistake you made: we can defeat the Old Gods, so they're weaker than people think they are? That's just silly. It has been stated multiple times before that Old Gods are at a minuscule, minuscule, minuscule fraction of their true power. It's like saying "Sargeras is super weak because Aegwynn destroyed his Avatar.", and I don't see anyone doing that.


C'Thun made a mistake. He had expected dragons to come through, and he was well-prepared for those. He was not expecting the mortals, and that's why he was defeated. Also, after the initial war, and the barrier (you know, the Gates of Ahn'Qiraj event which was all about removing that barrier) being erected, C'Thun's intention was to go back to regaining more and more power, while also driving mad any dragon that got inside anyway, so that would bolster the strength of his army.

It is never stated that he is the strongest tians but the strongest from the universe. That also makes him the strongest titan

Also Amen'thul is wise and that makes him the leader. Like Barack Obama

[Lolretadin]

Whoa, whoa. Hold up now. No they can't, and no they didn't. The Titans shaped them, they did not create the planets. The best they did was create mountains.

All of the lore concerning Aman'Thul comes from the RPG, so it is the closest approximation.
"Aman’Thul rules the Pantheon — the titan high council. He is the oldest and wisest of his ancient race. Once, Aman'Thul and his brother Sargeras oversaw the creation of innumerable worlds across the Twisting Nether and gently guided countless races to greatness. Sargeras was Aman'Thul's closest advisor and supporter until he turned to evil. Now Aman'Thul looks to his consort Eonar for council. Though the mysterious High Father is rarely seen, every world feels his presence.

As leader of the titans, Aman'Thul is responsible for the creation of all worlds, including Azeroth. All those who revere the titans ultimately pay their respects to the High Father. On Azeroth, explorers have only recently uncovered the titans' existence, and few aside from the Ironforge dwarves venerate them. Dwarves, being a practical lot, show their respect for the titans by delving ever deeper into their mysteries."

It should also be stated that at the past Blizzcon, it was stated at the lore panel that the Titans did create Azeroth.

And yes it is. We don't equate dropping a nuke on a country as a fair fight, can we? Possessing a nuke does not mean that said country is the strongest country and could win a war on equal terms, now is it? Therefore, you can't say "Titans can reset Azeroth" means "Titans are instantly > all the Old Gods". That's just weak.

This is a poor argument. It is never stated that the Titans had to use an implement to do so; and from what we know of the Titan's and their capabilities, it would be folly to think so. Even then, if they did possess a nuke that could do that, that would still affirm their dominance over the Old Gods. That's like saying a man with a knife is weak because he doesn't want to participate in fisticuffs.

You and other Sargeras fans make the mistake of equating "Champion of the Pantheon" for "the strongest Titan to have ever existed". It's not true. It just isn't. By the same logic, I can refute that by saying Aman'thul is the leader of the Pantheon, and the leaders of groups with power are usually stronger than its members, else those members will not follow that aforementioned leader. It is the simple rule of authority.

He is the strongest Titan, hence why he was their champion.
It's been stated explicitly that Sargeras is the opposite of Aman'thul. One is creation, the other is destruction.
Metzen has even stated that we will probably interact with the Titans at one point, but it's unlikely that we will ever see Sargeras because of how powerful he is.

Sargeras simply champions their cause, and he is a great soldier. He walked planets, eradicating demons and other forms of evil for the Titans, and to further their cause. And even so, Sargeras being the strongest being and him being weaker than multiple Old Gods do not contradict each other. Sargeras can still be the strongest. The strongest is measured by 'one on one' strength. Sargeras could be ripped apart by two Old Gods and still be the strongest in the universe, because he would rip apart a Titan or Old God 1v1.

If Sargeras' power was able to be measured in just this 'one on one' strength, as you put it, then Archimonde and Kil'jaeden would have killed him a long time ago. Each of them had the power to end all life on Azeroth, alone. The former had to be destroyed by detonating the World Tree and the spirits within the forests of Hyjal, the latter fought against the Blue Dragonflight, the entirety of the Sunwell, and the most powerful champions of Azeroth and still almost won (hell, we didn't even hurt him, we just bought time until he essentially 'lost his footing').

And another mistake you made: we can defeat the Old Gods, so they're weaker than people think they are? That's just silly. It has been stated multiple times before that Old Gods are at a minuscule, minuscule, minuscule fraction of their true power. It's like saying "Sargeras is super weak because Aegwynn destroyed his Avatar.", and I don't see anyone doing that.

People say the Old Gods are incredibly intelligent.
C'thun thought he had regained enough power to take on the lesser races. He was wrong.
Yogg-saron made the same mistake.
People say the Old Gods and their armies are as numerous as the stars themselves.
The Burning Legion does not seem interested in the Old Gods; Kil'jaeden's demonic agents (Dreadlords) would have informed him of at least the presence of C'thun, so they either have not encountered an Old God (meaning they are not wide spread) or they are not interested (meaning they are not a threat).
The Naaru don't ever speak of the Old Gods, even though they are known to be a very widespread and ancient race.
The Draenei don't ever speak of the Old Gods, even though Velen is thousands of years old and they have been traversing space for millennia.

C'Thun made a mistake. He had expected dragons to come through, and he was well-prepared for those. He was not expecting the mortals, and that's why he was defeated. Also, after the initial war, and the barrier (you know, the Gates of Ahn'Qiraj event which was all about removing that barrier) being erected, C'Thun's intention was to go back to regaining more and more power, while also driving mad any dragon that got inside anyway, so that would bolster the strength of his army.

What you just said just calls C'thuns intelligence into question even more.
*Makes special preparations for dragons.
*Mortals come.
*Mortals win.
*Means armies are weaker than Dragons.
*C'thun is an idiot.

N'Zoth is not known to have the power of multiple Old Gods. It's simply said that the Titans could not defeat him for whatever reason, and Sargeras can not easily take the entirety of the known Old Gods at full power. It's a simply 5 > 1 rule. We know Old Gods are between Archimonde - Titan level at the very least. Stronger than Archimonde, and around the level of a Titan or stronger in some cases. Sargeras is strong, but you wouldn't say he is easily able to defeat the entirety of the Pantheon either. That's just blind fanboying. Sorry, but it's just that way.

N'zoth's armies waged war against those of C'thun and Yogg-saron's.
Their armies would have been dictated by the power of the one who "blessed" them.

And while you may be right about the Burning Legion being huge, the Faceless and Old God army is also nigh endless. They could just enslave the elements again (minus Al'akir and Ragnaros, because those are effectively vanquished), empower Azshara, bring forth all their faceless from the very soil and earth, and the naga from the depths of the seas.
On top of that, the nightmare is filled with horrific creatures, as well as Druids of the Nightmare. Several demonic creatures were also enslaved, like satyr. (Xavius)

No, the demons were not enslaved. They made a choice. Xavius was saved by N'zoth from destruction and was given the choice of joining forces or being sent to die, the former was chosen. Just because the demons work with the Legion does not mean they are forced to, the demons serve the Legion willingly.
The elemental lords weren't enslaved, Ragnaros and Al'akir served willingly and there is nothing that suggested to the contrary during Cataclysm. Even then, the mortal races have found allies in Therazane and Neptulon (if he's still alive?).
Other than a few of the faceless ones/forgotten ones, the majority are cannon fodder. And saying they are endless is daft, as we have never had any affirmation as to how many there are. Even then, the Naga are also not too big of a problem as we have defeated them multiple times before.

Then on top of that, you have the Twilight Hammer. I'm pretty sure it'd be a huge battle, but the Old God forces would, imo, logically come out on top.

The Twilight Hammer has been destroyed, for the most part. Cho'gall, their leader, is dead. We destroyed their bastion of power.
You also act as though the Legion has less demons than Azeroth has entities. The Old God's forces amount to a small bump in the road for the Legion. I think it also needs to be said that the Scourge would effectively be under the control of the Legion if they came to Azeroth; it was Kil'jaeden that created the Lich King.

And that's just what it is. The name is "Sargeras vs Old Gods". This means it's Sargeras versus the five Azeroth Old Gods, and presumably at full-power. You really want to imply that one Titan, no matter how empowered and corrupted he may be, could destroy five (or four, minus Y'Shaarj - but it looks like he too might come back with some work) Titan-killing, mind-controlling, chaotic creatures on his own? It's a simple 2>1, or 4>1 case. Now Sargeras may be a 2 or 2.5, but he's not a 4 or a 5. There's just no way one can say that with a straight face.

Y'shaarj is permanently dead, Blizzard has stated this. He will not be coming back.
Sargeras could easily take C'thun, Yogg-saron, and the yet to be named Old God, in tandem. Taking all 4 could potentially happen as C'thun is only equal to a lesser Titan in power (that being said, it's speculated that what C'thun fought was a Titan construct, and not an actual Titan).

Unless Blizzard retcons the Old Gods and Sargeras, explicitly stating that he is on the level of four to six titans. Then maybe. But until then, it's just a jump to assume one is stronger than the other, but at the very least, we can take a logical leap and assume five Old Gods can take on one empowered Titan.

Of course, this implies that the Old Gods would work together to defeat Sargeras, which is not at all a certainty. It's possible for sure, because they have worked together before, but in general, they do not. At the end of the day, it's a simple, hypothetical question, that I feel is logically answered by "five fully-powered old gods working in unison > one titan".

Five Old Gods > One Titan
Sargeras != One Titan.
Hence why Sargeras might never even be seen in game.

[Aquamonkey]

Whoa, whoa. Hold up now. No they can't, and no they didn't. The Titans shaped them, they did not create the planets. The best they did was create mountains.

Re-origination is the "decomposition of the planet and its living organisms into base elements: metals, rocks, gases. This is followed by a period of reconstitution of each element into the original planetary blueprint." They can break planets apart to base elements and reconstruct it from scratch.

Notice it's RE-origination. That implies they also have regular origination where they just make a planet according to the blueprint.

Algalon says: "I have seen worlds bathed in the Makers' flames. Their denizens fading without so much as a whimper. Entire planetary systems born and razed in the time that it takes your mortal hearts to beat once."

And yes it is. We don't equate dropping a nuke on a country as a fair fight, can we? Possessing a nuke does not mean that said country is the strongest country and could win a war on equal terms, now is it? Therefore, you can't say "Titans can reset Azeroth" means "Titans are instantly > all the Old Gods". That's just weak.

It wasn't a fair fight. The Titans weren't using lethal force against the Old Gods. According to Mogu legend, they personally killed Y'shaarj. That's 2nd tier Titan constructs killing an Old God, not even Watchers.

Also:

Not every Old God is still alive and plotting. The Titans actually did kill a lot, so this particular Old God is dead. And is safely dead. Not all of the Old Gods were entombed. (Source)

You and other Sargeras fans make the mistake of equating "Champion of the Pantheon" for "the strongest Titan to have ever existed". It's not true. It just isn't. By the same logic, I can refute that by saying Aman'thul is the leader of the Pantheon, and the leaders of groups with power are usually stronger than its members, else those members will not follow that aforementioned leader. It is the simple rule of authority.

He was their greatest warrior, i.e. their best fighter. But yes, that doesn't make him the most powerful. The WoW Magazine mostly depicts him as fighting with his sword. However, he does know how to use powerful magic.

N'Zoth is not known to have the power of multiple Old Gods. It's simply said that the Titans could not defeat him for whatever reason, and Sargeras can not easily take the entirety of the known Old Gods at full power. It's a simply 5 > 1 rule. We know Old Gods are between Archimonde - Titan level at the very least. Stronger than Archimonde, and around the level of a Titan or stronger in some cases. Sargeras is strong, but you wouldn't say he is easily able to defeat the entirety of the Pantheon either. That's just blind fanboying. Sorry, but it's just that way.

Again, the Titans were using non-lethal force. They defeated the Old Gods by casting a magical slumber on them.

[Lolretadin]

God damnit, Aquamonkey. Why is your knowledge of lore so sexy.

[TheAmazingFeedz]

Re-origination is the "decomposition of the planet and its living organisms into base elements: metals, rocks, gases. This is followed by a period of reconstitution of each element into the original planetary blueprint." They can break planets apart to base elements and reconstruct it from scratch.

Notice it's RE-origination. That implies they also have regular origination where they just make a planet according to the blueprint.

Algalon says: "I have seen worlds bathed in the Makers' flames. Their denizens fading without so much as a whimper. Entire planetary systems born and raised in the time that it takes your mortal hearts to beat once."


It wasn't a fair fight. The Titans weren't using lethal force against the Old Gods. According to Mogu legend, they personally killed Y'shaarj. That's 2nd tier Titan constructs killing an Old God, not even Watchers.

Also:

Not every Old God is still alive and plotting. The Titans actually did kill a lot, so this particular Old God is dead. And is safely dead. Not all of the Old Gods were entombed. (Source)

He was their greatest warrior, i.e. their best fighter. But yes, that doesn't make him the most powerful. The WoW Magazine mostly depicts him as fighting with his sword. However, he does know how to use powerful magic.


Again, the Titans were using non-lethal force. They defeated the Old Gods by casting a magical slumber on them.

The Titans did kill Y'shaarj, though they created the Mogu to watch over and contain the Sha.

[Aquamonkey]

The Titans did kill Y'shaarj, though they created the Mogu to watch over and contain the Sha.

Mogu had multiple functions. They were first created as soldiers to hunt Y'Shaarj. They were also used to shape the land like earthen. Then guard the Vale against the mantid.

[TheAmazingFeedz]

Mogu had multiple functions. They were first created as soldiers to hunt Y'Shaarj. They were also used to shape the land like earthen. Then guard the Vale against the mantid.

I remember Blizzard specifically mentioning they were created to watch and protect the vale from both the sha threat and the Mantid. Also, as someone else linked above it is stated on wowpedia(Possibly one of the most trustful lore sources we have) that the Titans BARELY triumphed over a divided and unallied force of Old Gods.

Don't you find it hard to believe that the Mogu actually pulled off killing an Old God whereas Saggoth the Slitherer(One of many Old God minions) managed to defeat a whole army of Titan Giants? I like to believe the Old Gods as individuals are the prime-evils of the World of Warcraft universe, with only an allied faction of powerful beings such as the Titans can even come close in defeating them. Until Blizzard officially says otherwise that is my current held opinion/ thought on the matter.

[Aquamonkey]

I remember Blizzard specifically mentioning they were created to watch and protect the vale from both the sha threat and the Mantid.

"According to this, the mogu and their master were sent to Pandaria. They were pursuing a great darkness - ah, the fragment is incomplete. We must find others."
"Here, there is mention of an Old God. "Y'Shaarj." A beast with seven heads, who breathed darkness. I suspect that thing was the source of the sha that haunts Pandaria to this day."

The beast of seven heads
Fumed seven breaths.
The land wept shadow
And the swarm blackened the sky.
Supreme was the ancient one;
None dared waken its wrath.
Until the coming of the Storm.
First came thunder, then came Stone.
The thunder Storm's voice,
The Stone his weapon.
Lightning seared the sky.
The swarm fled from its light.
Stone struck at the heads of the beast.
The shadow bled into land and sky -
Fear and rage that would not die.
Storm's will was done.
Stone's purpose fulfilled.

Also, as someone else linked above it is stated on wowpedia(Possibly one of the most trustful lore sources we have) that the Titans BARELY triumphed over a divided and unallied force of Old Gods.

The Titans barely triumphed because they were gimping themselves by not using lethal force. If they didn't care about saving Azeroth, the Titans would have just killed the Old Gods.

Don't you find it hard to believe that the Mogu actually pulled off killing an Old God whereas Saggoth the Slitherer(One of many Old God minions) managed to defeat a whole army of Titan Giants? I like to believe the Old Gods as individuals are the prime-evils of the World of Warcraft universe, with only an allied faction of powerful beings such as the Titans can even come close in defeating them. Until Blizzard officially says otherwise that is my current held opinion/ thought on the matter.

That's why I said "according to Mogu legend."

[Roshar]

Algalon says: "I have seen worlds bathed in the Makers' flames. Their denizens fading without so much as a whimper. Entire planetary systems born and raised in the time that it takes your mortal hearts to beat once."

Won't go into the rest of the post since I already have said my piece before, but omg I hope someone, sometime remembers the Algalon fight and remember that he says "razed" and not "raised"....I hope someone edits wowpedia to reflect that as well. He's talking about how he's destroyed so many planets before. Yes, I know this isn't anything major related to this thread, but it drives me up the wall to always see "born and raised" when someone references the Algalon quote.

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[Deleted]

People say the Old Gods are incredibly intelligent.
C'thun thought he had regained enough power to take on the lesser races. He was wrong.
Yogg-saron made the same mistake.
People say the Old Gods and their armies are as numerous as the stars themselves.
The Burning Legion does not seem interested in the Old Gods; Kil'jaeden's demonic agents (Dreadlords) would have informed him of at least the presence of C'thun, so they either have not encountered an Old God (meaning they are not wide spread) or they are not interested (meaning they are not a threat).
The Naaru don't ever speak of the Old Gods, even though they are known to be a very widespread and ancient race.
The Draenei don't ever speak of the Old Gods, even though Velen is thousands of years old and they have been traversing space for millennia.

Yeah that is kinda weird. But is is true. They where all across the universe so why did the legion nothing agianst them. Because they where hidding for eternity, that is there tactic. Doing nothing then Mortals to do there work for them.

What you just said just calls C'thuns intelligence into question even more.
*Makes special preparations for dragons.
*Mortals come.
*Mortals win.
*Means armies are weaker than Dragons.
*C'thun is an idiot.

Well I can't agree. OG where complettely intelligence. Also they never completely lose.
Also do not forget that for C'thun its 10x harder then for another OG.
Yogg-saron was only watched by the watchers wo where corrupt. N'zoth was hidding from the titans.
But C'thun cannot do everything what he wants. He could have taked the lands in the first war of the shifting sands.
But he failed when he discovered that the titans where still watching him. Or Amen'thul is still watching him.
He Died/imprisoned close the home of the titans so he can't be that corrupt.

[Aquamonkey]

Won't go into the rest of the post since I already have said my piece before, but omg I hope someone, sometime remembers the Algalon fight and remember that he says "razed" and not "raised"....I hope someone edits wowpedia to reflect that as well. He's talking about how he's destroyed so many planets before. Yes, I know this isn't anything major related to this thread, but it drives me up the wall to always see "born and raised" when someone references the Algalon quote.

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Yea, I knew it was 'razed'. I just didn't pay attention when I copied it from there. Anyways, I fixed it.

[Dasani]

Sargeras has been way too overhyped by people who really know nothing about him.

It's been said that the old gods are stronger than any of the titans, the only reason the titans could do anything with the old gods in the first place is because they worked together to deal with each one and the old gods didn't work together. Sargeras may be the strongest of the titans, but he is no match for an Old God.

[Funky Kong]

I'm going to leave this one for Stan Lee to answer.

[Deleted]

At full power N'zoth was capable of defeating both C'thun and Yogg-saron.
He is thought to be the strongest because the Pantheon either couldn't or wouldn't contain/kill him. The latter (killing him) is most likely due to what happened with Y'shaarj.

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1) Nope, Titans are not supreme beings.
2) No, Sargeras was a bit more than their enforcer.
3) Yes, he was the most powerful Titan in regards to combat capabilities.
4) No, the Nathrezim are not a threat. The Old Gods are much more powerful than them and have only recently, after tens of thousands of years, been able to escape. What do you think would happen to the Nathrezim if they were put in similar prisons?
5) That's a big nope right there.
6) Kil'jaeden is currently in charge of the Burning Legion as Sargeras is missing; the Nathrezim and Dreadlords are the same thing; the Nathrezim have always been Kil'jaeden's personal servants.
7) The Dreadlords are weaker than the Pit Lords, who are not strong enough to fight an Old God. Sure the Dreadlords CAN'T die, but they would likely pull a Xavius and switch sides because it would be more beneficial to them than dying. If any single demonic race had a chance against the Old Gods, it would be the Infernals (which is only because they can be manufactured en masse and sent be the thousands).

1) Yes they are
2) I think that he was the leader of the titans war forces (if the OG where that important Sargeras has faced them by himself)
3) And the strongest of the universe what makes him the strongest titan
4) They where a bigger threat to the universe than OG, they corrupted and darkened many planets and never dies.
5) If it was
6) No, in the sunwell KJ have said he shall take Sargeras place. Means Sargeras is still alive and in charge
7) Yes but they where very intelligence

[Aquamonkey]

1) Yes they are

The Titans are not gods.

2) I think that he was the leader of the titans war forces (if the OG where that important Sargeras has faced them by himself)

Sargeras left the Pantheon long before they fought the OG on Azeroth.

3) And the strongest of the universe what makes him the strongest titan

There are different kinds of strength besides combat capabilities. One could say Sargeras was the weakest Titan because he fell into a brooding depression and doubted their mission.

[Lolretadin]

Sargeras has been way too overhyped by people who really know nothing about him.

It's been said that the old gods are stronger than any of the titans, the only reason the titans could do anything with the old gods in the first place is because they worked together to deal with each one and the old gods didn't work together. Sargeras may be the strongest of the titans, but he is no match for an Old God.

Old Gods have been way too overhyped by people who really know nothing about them.

It's been said that the Titans are stronger than any of the Old Gods, the only reason the Old Gods could to anything to the Titans in the first place is because they worked together to deal with a common enemy.

Joking aside, you need to read up on Sargeras and Old God lore.

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There are different kinds of strength besides combat capabilities. One could say Sargeras was the weakest Titan because he fell into a brooding depression and doubted their mission.

I think it needs expanded upon that Sargeras' skills are strictly combat-based (along with being able to manipulate fel energies due to his transformation, allowing him to empower people). If we are talking about pure destructive power, Sargeras is the most powerful. If we are talking about intellect and magical ability, Norgannon is the strongest.

I think it also needs to be said that the Pantheon only had two members that were versed in combat, the rest had aptitudes in other areas (generally pertaining to the creation of something).

[purebalance]

lol where are people coming up with this Nzoth business. All we know is he wasn't killed and he went into hiding. He could have gotten his butt kicked and pulled a rogue and vanished and ran. Or I guess in an old god's case submerged deeper(oceanically). Nowhere in any current lore does it say his strength or that the titans COULDNT beat him. With Ysharj they learned their lesson about killing old gods since the land was corrupted so they contained instead.