Should GW2 have raids?

[Fencers]

I can totally do that in WoW, with bandages and ninjaing awesome bows!

He said viable. Not playing awful. XD

[Deleted]

Raiding is a competition and Anet is really up against things like that when it comes to pve.

When you create huge world bosses, there is a way bigger sense of community and it is not just all about those 25 same people.


Anet has got it covered when it comes to End Game

I think Raiding would quite quickly destroy a part of GW2. It is made so that theese small epic bosses are made for an entire server instead of just a handfull of people.


But i understand why you come up with the question

[airea]

When you create huge world bosses, there is a way bigger sense of community and it is not just all about those 25 same people.

You make a good point. Inevitably, no matter what shape and form A-Net could make them take, they'd still be highly difficult multi-boss encounters, which would no doubt spawn repeat run groups. Sitting in a corner with your raiding group doesn't help the server. It seems my opinion has been changed, congratulations.

[Durzlla]

You make a good point. Inevitably, no matter what shape and form A-Net could make them take, they'd still be highly difficult multi-boss encounters, which would no doubt spawn repeat run groups. Sitting in a corner with your raiding group doesn't help the server. It seems my opinion has been changed, congratulations.

I'm pretty excited to try my hand at the full scale shatterer and tequatel... i remember reading somewhere that they downscaled both of them to an easier difficulty for the demo... which if that's the case can be very promising for those that just want challenging multi person content...

As for raids as in wow... NO absolutely not, they have no place in this game... I wouldn't be against them having a giant DE around siegeing an enemy city, maybe like an irondwarf town or a super elite grawl shrine? Maybe a krait location? It'd have to be super difficult, take a long time to do, and once victorious you get that place as a location to go to, you know, until its original owners muster up the forces to take it back... Maybe make it that every time you fight them off(once you get it) their difficulty goes up and up and up until they reclaim it to ensure that it's not held forever...

[airea]

As for raids as in wow... NO absolutely not, they have no place in this game... I wouldn't be against them having a giant DE around siegeing an enemy city, maybe like an irondwarf town or a super elite grawl shrine? Maybe a krait location? It'd have to be super difficult, take a long time to do, and once victorious you get that place as a location to go to, you know, until its original owners muster up the forces to take it back... Maybe make it that every time you fight them off(once you get it) their difficulty goes up and up and up until they reclaim it to ensure that it's not held forever...

Thank you, this is exactly what I've been trying (and failing >_<) to articulate.

[Fencers]

Would like to see heroic areas introduced in the future of GW2 like Ssra Temple, Plane of Hate or TOR's heroic areas. Essentially sections in the open world with very tough mobs that require coordination & careful treading.

That is "true raiding" (imo) as it was originally in the first MMOs. TOR's heroic areas are amazing! Pretty certain GW2 lends itself to such content rather easily without shoving the player base into Ice-grawl Citadel.

[airea]

Would like to see heroic areas introduced in the future of GW2 like Ssra Temple, Plane of Hate or TOR's heroic areas. Essentially sections in the open world with very tough mobs that require coordination & careful treading.

Yeah, even if it's simply more difficult endgame DEs, I don't mind. Just something truly challenging that's fun, adds some story, and keeps players involved.

[Keosen]

My only experience with non-raiding MMO was Lineage II from NCSoft but the game was so hideous and nothing more than a Asian grindfest so i can't rule out the possibility of playing again a raid-less MMO.
In fact it was so bad than you could go with 30 people to kill a world boss and get ganked at any time rendering the killing almost impossible and the biggest failure of all was that the loot was FFA you could just get the final blow and ninja the loot if you were fast enough,

Ofcourse this won't be the case in GW2 but having only world bosses to encounter will be a risky thing since you will have to deal with numerous bads running around and ruining the fun.

Instanced raiding it's a great i think ANet should have a second thought on using it.
Let's wait and see but in my opinion an instanced 10man raiding scheme would be great.

[grandpab]

I posted earlier saying no on raids, but I'm really just against the "traditional WoW raids". I wouldn't have a problem with instanced 10-25 man raids as long as you didn't get better gear from them. I don't know how they would do it with their gear system, plus it seems like there's a lot of people that raid only for better gear, so idk. It makes me feel obliged to do them when it's the main content and way to get gear, and at this point in my gaming career I don't care for raids.

[durza]

I posted earlier saying no on raids, but I'm really just against the "traditional WoW raids". I wouldn't have a problem with instanced 10-25 man raids as long as you didn't get better gear from them. I don't know how they would do it with their gear system, plus it seems like there's a lot of people that raid only for better gear, so idk. It makes me feel obliged to do them when it's the main content and way to get gear, and at this point in my gaming career I don't care for raids.

if i recall(and do correct me if im wrong) all gear at max lvl is the same, meaning you can get gear from pvp and it will be onpar with a massive max lvl DE aswell as explorable mode dungeons

[Chrno]

Instanced PvE raid (as much as i love it in WoW): No thanks, im getting too old for that
Outdoor bosses which do require some tactics to take down: FUCK YEA no idea if it actually works like this. But i could totally see a guild on any given night go out in the world and work together to push DE's in a certain direction to (after completing / triggering some difficult DE's) spawn a HUGE boss which you have to kill in a given time, say 1 hour, or else you fail the DE. <---- that (to me) is the BEST form of raiding and i would LOVE IT. And it scales ... so no biggy if you don't feel like going out to hunt them down .

big question for me remains tho:
Can you trigger these big outdoor bosses. Or will they really pop up randomly, that has to bee seem i guess.
If it can't be triggered.... well shame tbh.. but i will still love the game for what it does! I want to go back to tyria so badly ^^

[Mowdy]

The problem with raiding is developers invariably make it the main focus of their game. You bore yourself crazy leveling, then get to the "end game" hop on the gear treadmill and chase a carrot forever. Since GW2 doesn't have that crutch they're forced to make the entire game entertaining, instead of just wasting your time with tier after tier of more or less the same old shit.

If it's challenging content you want, you'll still have that in 5 man explorable dungeons. To give you some perspective, the devs recently said a full clear, one shotting everything with a fast moving uber pro group should take you about 1 hour. So the average group of friends taking their time and carrying that one baddie friend we all have, you'll be looking at maybe 2 hrs imo. Which to me seems perfect.

People just need to lose their old Wow mindsets.

i am tottally agree with you !!

[Deleted]

Molten Core was the greatest raid experience I ever had, I only knew maybe 5-10 of the 40 man raid. Ofc I knew of allmost all but only 5-10 was online friends. Anyway it didn't matter because it was this being part of something bigger.
I hope DE will bring a paradigm shift and bring back the epic.
People who only want to play with the same group of 10 or 25 IRL Loosers who can take 3 hours off 4 evenings a week can stay in WoW for all I care. Don't get me wrong I have been in good guilds that I've enjoyed raiding with but it was on expense of relationships in reallife, and for f-sake it's a computergame. A Computergame should be something you turn-on and off just as you would with the television or a movie, not some lifeconsuming mix of sacrifice and guilt.
Letting casuals as hardcores being able to grind top-tier quality gear elimenates the flood of tears on the forums. But having elite events that gives elite looks to thoose who are infacts elite is something I hope they will do. You won't get carried in a 5 man heroic instance if the bar is set high enough. You can get carried in a 10man or 25man.

TLR = Big Groups are for bringing the epic feeling, small groups are for display of skill, if you don't like it please stick with WoW.

Thank you for reading.

[Deleted]

Yes, but in the end, if a bratty child wants to be a bratty child, they'll stay that way. I don't really believe its entirely the developer's responsibility to mould the community. If the community as a whole isn't going to tolerate asshattery and douche baggery, then ass hats and douche bags aren't going to be around long, but if the community does, well then, they're sticking around for a bit.

If you end up with a bratty kid, part of the responsibility for that always lies with the parents. It is their job to teach and encourage the right values.

Blizzard is the parent of WoW and when WoW's players can succeed despite being anti-social pricks, a part of the problem lies with Blizzard.

[Deleted]

Instanced PvE raid (as much as i love it in WoW): No thanks, im getting too old for that
Outdoor bosses which do require some tactics to take down: FUCK YEA no idea if it actually works like this. But i could totally see a guild on any given night go out in the world and work together to push DE's in a certain direction to (after completing / triggering some difficult DE's) spawn a HUGE boss which you have to kill in a given time, say 1 hour, or else you fail the DE. <---- that (to me) is the BEST form of raiding and i would LOVE IT. And it scales ... so no biggy if you don't feel like going out to hunt them down .

big question for me remains tho:
Can you trigger these big outdoor bosses. Or will they really pop up randomly, that has to bee seem i guess.
If it can't be triggered.... well shame tbh.. but i will still love the game for what it does! I want to go back to tyria so badly ^^

As I understand you "earn" the big outdoor bosses as they are the last part of dynamic event chains.

[Deleted]

I remember playing the original Guild Wars. Me and my fellow guildies all hit level 20, worked on gaining our extra attribute points, and ran... Underworld? and the other super-hard dungeon they had (it's been years, I forget the names). Eventually, A-net released a whole new zone/dungeon for players at level 20. It kept us busy and felt like REAL endgame content that didn't require consumables, crazy strats, etc.

I've nothing against people who enjoy raiding, but there's more than one way to produce end-game content, and I see little reason why we need to build and classify content as a raid to keep folk interested. The sooner the genre/mmo staples are let go of, the sooner options and alternatives can really shine.

This is a fantastic point and is pretty much how I feel about it all. I love raiding in WoW, not really for the content but the guild teamplay aspect of it. GW2 is also trying to break away from this very set structure MMOs tend to be confined to these days, and so far all of the ideas they seem to be pouring into this game sound great, so I'm happily waiting to see what the endgame PvE content will be like to keep that crowd of players busy.

Worst comes to worst and there is nothing which replaces raiding? game has no sub so you can always keep playing your favourite raid based pve endgame mmo.

[Chrno]

As I understand you "earn" the big outdoor bosses as they are the last part of dynamic event chains.

yes, that's what i understand from it aswell
but that doesn't really answer my question ^^

can you trigger them with your guild by doing stuff in a certain order
or will you sumble upon them as you play the game

^ major differnce imo

[Deleted]

yes, that's what i understand from it aswell
but that doesn't really answer my question ^^

can you trigger them with your guild by doing stuff in a certain order
or will you sumble upon them as you play the game

^ major differnce imo

In most cases they will be triggered, though it WILL take some time to unlock. Shatterer's DE chain will take weeks to unlock and will require cooperation of few guilds. Smaller bosses like Teq, will be easier to unlock but I still predict you will not be able to do it during one play session. So yeah, you will have to complete multiple DEs spread across the map to have a chance to kill "some big dragons".

There ARE random DEs but those are on a much smaller scale, like a convoy which starts a journey from one village to another - you may choose to escort it or just let it roll and get "owned" by bandits.

Worst comes to worst and there is nothing which replaces raiding? game has no sub so you can always keep playing your favourite raid based pve endgame mmo.

Well, you will have very hard 5man instances. Explorer mode dungeons will be the ultimate challenge and items gained from them will have very unique models and themes so.. insta bragging ;].

I might even go as far and say that even people who consider themselves as "good raiders" will struggle in explorer mode dungeons. Mostly because the challenge presented in GW2 hard modes has much more depth and levels than in your average MMO. This is nothing you ever encountered in WoW.

I predict massive QQ after the release because even people who currently clear (lol) heroic content will fail miserably in explorer mode - now the question is: will Anet bend over like Blizz and nerf things to the ground or allow people to enjoy challenging content.

Of course, there are other difficulty levels: story mode allows you to finish dungeon in more.. reasonable challenge setting. So people who are bit more slow will still see the content.

[ddsad2212]

No, but the 5 man dungeons need to be hard, and fun content that you can will day weeks for even very good players to beat, the dungeons need to have a difficult that would normally be found in raids. other wise people going for pve content will get bored very fast. I also dont think the combat system suits a 10-25 man raid, i mean most support styles of game play are about stoping you taking damage not healing the damage , and because of that in large scale raids i could see it been very easy, or massively complex, and either way a nightmare to balance, personally ive always prefered smaller groups anyway , as individual skill, while not nessecarly more important, is at least more noticable(ya ok i like getting pats on the back:P).

What i hope does not happen is that all dev time focuses on pvp, i dont think will happen, but ive seen alot of people say, gw is about pvp, and not pve and gw2 should be the same, this scares me as personally i dont see my self playing this game for pvp as i prefer moba style games and other rts for that(i feel they do it better, and no matter how good gw2 does it i dont think theyll beat smite in that form of 3rd person pvp).

[hellar]

As long as dongeons are hard. I guess i wont have a huge problem. I just dont want to get to the point that i can run though em in 20min.