[Megathread] Mass Effect 3

[Leonard McCoy]

He didn't appear from nowhere. He was on a prothean research facility. He wasn't the first VI found there. He was just the only one working. Also he didn't appear so to speak. He made Shepard find him. He was monitoring the situation from the very beginning. Yes, he was unexpected to the player. But that's OK. He didn't have to be. He was so plausible he was officially allowed to be a surprise".
Starchild just appears. Literally.

Kid is a deus ex machina because of what he did. He took Shepard to the buttons. He operated the lift of light. Shepard was unconscious. I even gonna say Kid tended to Shepard's wounds a bit to bring him back to conscious. remove the kid and Shepard dies right there. completely unaware of the buttons.

Okay Starchild didn't appear out of nowhere. He was on a previously unexplored part of the citadel. For the purposes of the plot they really both appeared out of nowhere their physical locations aside. The point is that virgil was indeed unexpected just as the starchild was. The starchild doesn't just APPEAR hes been behind the scenes running the reapers. Your ability to swallow incredulity should not have any bearing on wether or not you think the star child did or didn't appear out of nowhere.

He didn't take shepard to the buttons. Shepard had to walk and move over to complete the action. In the end Shepard made the decisions and decided the game. Not the star kid. If the star kid was a real deus ex machina than he would have appeared said some dribble and the game would be over. No Shepard painful moving to pick an ending scene. In fact he wouldn't leave you a decision at all. Zeus in the old greek plays would take it UPON HIMSELF to act for example. The star child still leaves it up to you.

[leafs43]

He was on a previously unexplored part of the citadel.

He was on an explored part of the citadel. He was on the outside where someone previously painted 1m1.

[Leonard McCoy]

He was on an explored part of the citadel. He was on the outside where someone previously painted 1m1.

Allow me to clarify. His existence as a program was in the citadel or in the reapers as a background process. Just undiscovered. In any event he doesn't just come out of nowhere. He isn't zeus riding a bolt of lightening from mount olympus.

[rhorle]

Yes we know about Catalyst - a missing part of a Prothean Device. Then we learn it's the Citadel. And then we learn it's not a missing part at all, it's not a part even. It's not even a piece of device - it's AI, more so it controls the reapers, hell, it created them - how can THAT be a part of Crucible? The crucible itself is unknown fucking thing - in that light. Not even a Prothean device as we learn. That's just a U-turn. Wizard of Oz was just lying that he is a Wizard, but he did the show to look like one. Completely different thing.

The Citadel, Catalyst, and Star Child AI are all one and the same. The AI is just the man behind the curtain of the Catalyst/Citadel. The Catalyst and Citadel aren't a part of the Crucible they are required to make the Crucible work.

Crucible makes it possible to transmit energy (that it holds) thu Citadel to every mass Relay in the Galaxy. But it's Starchild that TAKES US TO THE BUTTONS. Without it - Shepard dies on Citadel and Reapers reap the Galaxy. It's DIVINE INTERVENTION. Actually that was my FIRST THOUGHT when I saw that lift of light.

Wrong. The Three conduits would still be there if the AI didn't make an appearance. Shepard just wouldn't have an idea which was which or what to do. Because no one knew how the device was supposed to work. The AI doesn't enable anything or make anything possible. He just provides information. The AI is only there to provide information about what the Crucible allowed. He can't control anything as he states that he is bound by programing. And that the Crucible allows for new solutions that his programing didn't allow.

If his programing wouldn't allow it how can he be a DEM that provides the power to do something?

[leafs43]

Allow me to clarify. His existence as a program was in the citadel or in the reapers as a background process. Just undiscovered. In any event he doesn't just come out of nowhere. He isn't zeus riding a bolt of lightening from mount olympus.

He might as well have. He appears out of thin air.

[Leonard McCoy]

He might as well have. He appears out of thin air.

As does vigil. I'm on the mako and the next thing I know I have to get out and talk to this VI to proceed.

[Statix]

Wow, this thread just took off!

ME3 not more succesful than ME2? If it wasn't succesful, why would they make a fourth game? The trilogy is over, why start a complete new story if the last game you created wasn't a success? Especcialy now, that's too big of a risk to take.

The amount of DLC released has nothing to do with the succes of the game. ME2 was about the single player, nothing else. Combined with the MP DLC, regardless of what Bioware group created it, ME3 has way more DLC than ME2. You can't compare the DLCs for both games, as ME2 did not have a multiplayer.

As far as the StarChild goes. He says their solution no longer works and gives Shepard a few choices to make. All viable options. Shepard has no say in any of it, she just has to choose one of them. The StarChild gives her a choice, but she does not have the ability to truly influence the ending.

Also, the Crucible, as explained by the StarChild, doesn't do sh*t. It's merely a power source. So "The Citadel and Catalyst are required to make the Crucible work" is rubbish. The Crucible is required to activate the Catalyst and provide power to the Citadel.

[Elim Garak]

Okay Starchild didn't appear out of nowhere. He was on a previously unexplored part of the citadel. For the purposes of the plot they really both appeared out of nowhere their physical locations aside. The point is that he was indeed unexpected just as the starchild was. The starchild doesn't just APPEAR hes been behind the scenes running the reapers. Your ability to swallow incredulity should not have any bearing on wether or not you think the star child did or didn't appear out of nowhere.

You missed that PLAUSIBILITY thingy. A VI called Vigil wasn't expected during a chase. Note the context. Some kind of VI that could shed some light on what's going on WAS expected to be found on Ilos somewhere. We even found one, but broken. Hence why Vigil was NOT a shocker.
But no one expected The Spanish AI. At all.

He didn't take shepard to the buttons. Shepard had to walk and move over to complete the action. In the end Shepard made the decisions and decided the game. NOt the start kid. If the star kid was a real deus ex machina than he would have appeared said some dribble and the game would be over. No shepard painful moving to pick an ending scene.

He did. Remember that "lift of light" scene right after Shepard loses conscious? You know what have I expected back then I was playing for the first time - Shepard dies - but Crucible fires. It just needed some time to heat up. But hey a lift of life - I really thought it was God's doing.

[rhorle]

Kid is a deus ex machina because of what he did. He took Shepard to the buttons. He operated the lift of light. Shepard was unconscious. I even gonna say Kid tended to Shepard's wounds a bit to bring him back to conscious. remove the kid and Shepard dies right there. completely unaware of the buttons.

Or the lift automatically activates when the Crucible is attached to the Citadel.

[Leonard McCoy]

The Citadel, Catalyst, and Star Child AI are all one and the same. The AI is just the man behind the curtain of the Catalyst/Citadel. The Catalyst and Citadel aren't a part of the Crucible they are required to make the Crucible work.



Wrong. The Three conduits would still be there if the AI didn't make an appearance. Shepard just wouldn't have an idea which was which or what to do. Because no one knew how the device was supposed to work. The AI doesn't enable anything or make anything possible. He just provides information. The AI is only there to provide information about what the Crucible allowed. He can't control anything as he states that he is bound by programing. And that the Crucible allows for new solutions that his programing didn't allow.

If his programing wouldn't allow it how can he be a DEM that provides the power to do something?

Which is the same thing that vigil did. The conduit would still exist as would the code to stop the keepers but shepard wouldn't know about any of it without vigil.

[leafs43]

As does vigil. I'm on the mako and the next thing I know I have to get out and talk to this VI to proceed.

A VI can't walk around freely. A VI, like the one we see in the citadel earlier in the game, Avina, establishes what a VI is and is not.

And this is cemented even further in ME2 with the Shepard VI's.

[Leonard McCoy]

You missed that PLAUSIBILITY thingy. A VI called Vigil wasn't expected during a chase. Note the context. Some kind of VI that could shed some light on what's going on WAS expected to be found on Ilos somewhere. We even found one, but broken. Hence why Vigil was NOT a shocker.
But no one expected The Spanish AI. At all.

He did. Remember that "lift of light" scene right after Shepard loses conscious? You know what have I expected back then I was playing for the first time - Shepard dies - but Crucible fires. It just needed some time to heat up. But hey a lift of life - I really thought it was God's doing.

I didn't miss it. In fact at the end I specifically said your ability to swallow incredulities should have no bearing about wether or not he is a deus ex machina. Or wether or not either appears out of left field, which they do. Any VI wasn't expected during the chase. This facility has been abandoned for years. Note the context. Vigil was INDEED a shocker and the information he provided was equally as shocking. Just because you didn't expect that one of the games major and central themes wouldn't come back in the end and show itself in one form or another doesn't mean others didn;t.

While you may have thought it was gods doing, it may have simple been an automated process. Just because you don't understand how the magic works doesn't make it magic.

[rhorle]

He was on an explored part of the citadel. He was on the outside where someone previously painted 1m1.

No one has every found the actual control center of the Citadel. There is the control tower but that isn't the real control center for the Citadel. We learn this all the way back in Mass Effect 1. The Citadel also won't through a massive remodeling (which Mass Effect 1 also states the Keepers are responsible for and often remodel a block for no reason much to the woe of the people that live in that block).

No one knew those conduits existed or had seen them before. Just as the AI states that no one has ever made it as far as Shepard has before. If no one has made it that far then it can't be an explored area.

[Leonard McCoy]

A VI can't walk around freely. A VI, like the one we see in the citadel earlier in the game, Avina, establishes what a VI is and is not.

And this is cemented even further in ME2 with the Shepard VI's.

What does that have to do with anything? Vigil is still a surprise and comes out of nowhere as a plot device.

[Elim Garak]

The Citadel, Catalyst, and Star Child AI are all one and the same. The AI is just the man behind the curtain of the Catalyst/Citadel. The Catalyst and Citadel aren't a part of the Crucible they are required to make the Crucible work.

No Citadel is Catalyst, but Starchild is not. Really he is not needed for Crucible to fire. You say so yourself. Conduits are there. Regardless.
Your analogy of Wizard of Oz is not working here.

Wrong. The Three conduits would still be there if the AI didn't make an appearance. Shepard just wouldn't have an idea which was which or what to do. Because no one knew how the device was supposed to work. The AI doesn't enable anything or make anything possible. He just provides information. The AI is only there to provide information about what the Crucible allowed. He can't control anything as he states that he is bound by programing. And that the Crucible allows for new solutions that his programing didn't allow.

Am I the only one who remembers how Shepard was "ascended' by the lift of light to the conduits?

If his programing wouldn't allow it how can he be a DEM that provides the power to do something?

He takes Shepard to conduits!

[Statix]

Really he is not needed for Crucible to fire.

The Crucible doesn't fire anything. It's a power source for the true weapon: the Citadel. In any case, it requires the Citadel to fire. It needs to have its power amplified to be effective.

[rhorle]

He might as well have. He appears out of thin air.

Well that is usually what holographic projections do. However just because his avatar hasn't made an appearance before doesn't me it is the first we've heard of the Catalyst before. Learning new information about a subject isn't a DEM. The appearance of the Avatar doesn't change the three choices at all. They are still there even if the AI's Avatar remained hidden.

How can that be if the AI is a DEM? Also plenty of things "appeared" out of thin air when their surprise was revealed. Surprises and twists don't equal DEM.

[Elim Garak]

Or the lift automatically activates when the Crucible is attached to the Citadel.

You've got to be kidding... no wonder you are OK with StarChild.

[rhorle]

Which is the same thing that vigil did. The conduit would still exist as would the code to stop the keepers but shepard wouldn't know about any of it without vigil.

Vigil did not give Shepard a code to stop the Keepers. The Keepers were already stopped by the last Protheans. That is why they used the Conduit on a one way suicide mission. And that is why Sovereign had to make his presence known and attack the Citadel. A normal cycle has the keepers sending the signal that allows all the other Reapers to jump straight to the Citadel.

[Elim Garak]

The Crucible doesn't fire anything. It's a power source for the true weapon: the Citadel.

Crucible is a device, not a battery. Citadel is needed to fire it properly. Starchild is not needed at all.