[Megathread] Mass Effect 3

[Elim Garak]

The organics vs synthetics conflict does color all 3 games

No it doesn't, because when we talk about organics vs synthetics we are not talking about a wrestling match between Bob the Organic and Jim the Synthetic. We are talking about this threat of Synthetics wiping all Organic life in the Universe. Hence the Reapers and their cycles.

Parent/child conflict is all over the place, yes, but it's not synthetic vs organic conflict. it's parent vs child. Specific parent vs specific child. Not children vs all adults.
These conflicts are not a threat to the organic life as we know it. Be it organic parent vs organic child or organic parent vs synthetic child.

I'm yet to find this "we are synthetics you are organics - therefore you must die" kind of conflict.. oh wait - the reapers. The ones that were supposed to prevent it. Irony.

[Deleted]

The last one you added fits perfectly under master/slave, not much changes except that the reapers are the ones making the syntethics go to war with the organics.

It was my train of thought leading to the conclusion.

[Glorious Leader]

No it doesn't, because when we talk about organics vs synthetics we are not talking about a wrestling match between Bob the Organic and Jim the Synthetic. We are talking about this threat of Synthetics wiping all Organic life in the Universe. Hence the Reapers and their cycles.

Parent/child conflict is all over the place, yes, but it's not synthetic vs organic conflict. it's parent vs child. Specific parent vs specific child. Not children vs all adults.
These conflicts are not a threat to the organic life as we know it. Be it organic parent vs organic child or organic parent vs synthetic child.

I'm yet to find this "we are synthetics you are organics - therefore you must die" kind of conflict.. oh wait - the reapers. The ones that were supposed to prevent it. Irony.

The geth in mass effect 1 were basically this. Then you found out about the heretics and they become more layered. The syntehtic vs organic conflict between say the quarians and geth is another example of child vs parent. I'm not sure how you can say the quarian geth conflict isn't a threat to organic life seeing as the geth basically kicked the quarians of their world and lead to a systemic ban on all AI creation. The threat is very real and the denizens of the mass effect universe knows it is, hell they literally say it in the first game. A systemic legal ban on all AI's...

[Elim Garak]

The geth in mass effect 1 were basically this.

Nope. It was looking like it - but it wasn't it as we later discovered. And that's only that matters - how it actually was - not how it looked at first.

The syntehtic vs organic conflict between say the quarians and geth is another example of child vs parent.

Yes, specific parent (not all organics) vs specific child (not all synthetics)

I'm not sure how you can say the quarian geth conflict isn't a threat to organic life seeing as the geth basically kicked the quarians of their world and lead to a systemic ban on all AI creation.

Geth conflict wasn't even a threat to Quarian life. Because as soon as Quarians left - Geth didn't pursue them. Not to mention that it was Quarians who started the conflict.

The threat is very real and the denizens of the mass effect universe knows it is, hell they literally say it in the first game. A systemic legal ban on all AI's...

Politics. Hardly a real threat. they of course didn't know all the details of Quarian/Geth conflict - they only knew what Quarian officials told them. "Geth went crazy for no apparent reason and started killing everyone!"

Again it's actual things that matter, not how they look to uninformed observer.

[Buu]

I dont think orchestras are the snobs you think they are.
Their job, and most likely passion as well, is to play music.
Its not so easy that any halfarsed Joe can pull it off.
I daresay it requires more from its people than any other form of music.
Music is about the passion and miracle of sound.
So they get to learn, grow and show off and get paid for it.
They are musicians, not politicians or amys bakery.
I may be wrong, but i hope im not.

I can second that, and add how SCARY it is to find they are average Joes as many of us.
Quite opposite of Bioware of today, were incompetent stuck up fails think they are holier than everyone.

[rhorle]

I'm yet to find this "we are synthetics you are organics - therefore you must die" kind of conflict.. oh wait - the reapers. The ones that were supposed to prevent it. Irony.

The Unnamed AI on the citadel in Mass effect 1 is a organic versus synthetic conflict of the type you are looking for.
The Geth and Quarian in all games is that type of conflict as they are fighting just because the quarians are basically still fighting just because the geth are synthetic and kicked them off their home. And the geth are fighting both defensively and offensively because the organics want to kill them.
Mass effect 3 Citadel DLC shows how c-sec cornered and killed the last AI mechs on the Citadel back when the Council outlawed AI. The AI even asks for help/protection but C-sec kills them because they are synthetic.

All of the organic versus synthetic conflicts boiled down to kill them because they are synthetic, and the synthetics killing because they are organics or in defense against the racism.

- - - Updated - - -

Geth conflict wasn't even a threat to Quarian life. Because as soon as Quarians left - Geth didn't pursue them. Not to mention that it was Quarians who started the conflict.

The Geth are just as guilty of eliminating all organic life, since you know they would attack and destroy and ships that violated its space. The geth were isolationists but they still killed organics on sight when the organics attempted to entire their part of the galaxy. Why would they attack and destroy all ships entering their space? Because of the organic versus synthetic conflict and the problems with each other accepting the different views.

And the geth weren't the only AI around when the edict against AI was created so it wasn't just one sided (Quarians Viewpoint) politics. The Council didn't care if the AI was geth or not, they killed it and refused to listen to the pleas of the AI. And the council didn't need to listen to the quarians to see that their ships were destroyed any time they entered geth space.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4Qkf...etailpage&t=70

[Elim Garak]

Bunch of rubbish

You just don't understand.

I'll try to explain ONCE:
1. Citadel AI weren't out to destroy organic life. It was minding its own business. But was caught in the act and resorted to the only weapon it got, in defense. Shepard weren't out there to destroy Synthetics either. It's one on one inter-species conflict with prejudice on both sides. But as it is one on one - those were just opinions of individuals - therefore they should be dismissed.
2. Geth vs Quarians conflict is not different from Human vs Turian conflict, or Krogan vs Rachni conflict. These are specific conflicts of one species against another. Reasons are unimportant. Reapers don't wipe out organic life because they fear that organics can wipe all life in the universe. Though they have evidence that organics are capable and willing. All the inter-species wars, etc. No. They are focused specifically on Synthetics. So that nano-conflict between Geth and Quarians is not what they are trying to prevent. Inter-species wars are inevitable and not threatening the life in the universe. No matter what the species are. Organic or Synthetic.
3. AI mechs on Citadel - is not Synthetics vs Organic. It's Organics vs Synthetics. Mostly racism that is inevitable - AI is kinda new and AI Mechs were slaves with no rights. Replace C-Sec officers with White Americans and AI Mechs with Black Slaves and imagine it's year 1750. What's different? Nothing. Time would've sorted that thing in a couple of decades (after all ME is in the future - so not that backwards in terms of interracial interaction) and AI would've been considered just another kind of species. Those mechs also weren't out to destroy all organic life in the Universe. Strangely enough they were peaceful and didn't even resist, physically that is.
4. There's not a single Synthetic species in MEU that is out to destroy all organic life. All of them tried to coexist. Some organics (yes, some, because in MEU there are organics who do not feel prejudice towards Synthetics and treat them as another form of life) are racist towards Synthetics - but that comes with the fact that Organics created Synthetics. "What? My toaster's got what now? Rights?!". Racism is CURABLE. No, not by Reapers. Clearly Starchild should know that.

It's pretty clear that Reapers got it asswards. They should have just wiped all organic life and help synthetics to fill the niche.

Starchild wasn't preventing Synthetics vs Organics conflict. It was preventing the creation of Synthetics, who are in every way better than organics, peaceful and kind, also smarter and stuff. Leviathans and therefore Starchild were just JELLY.

Really these Leviathans dudes and their reapers remind me the Berserker by Saberhagen. Assward species in their asswardness create assward sentient machines to wage wars, but machines in the end killed their creators and then proceeded to wage war against all organic life in the universe. Because they were programmed to wage war.

[Deleted]

Racism is CURABLE.

What is with you people and forcing your opinions on others?

[rhorle]

1. Citadel AI weren't out to destroy organic life. It was minding its own business. But was caught in the act and resorted to the only weapon it got, in defense. Shepard weren't out there to destroy Synthetics either. It's one on one inter-species conflict with prejudice on both sides. But as it is one on one - those were just opinions of individuals - therefore they should be dismissed.

It still represents the conflict of Organics kill synthetics. The Organics were killing the synthetics simply because they were self aware synthetics. It wasn't just the opinions of individuals when the individuals are a large portion of the galaxy. Nor does it even matter if they are individuals or not it still represents the existence of the conflict.

2. Geth vs Quarians conflict is not different from Human vs Turian conflict, or Krogan vs Rachni conflict. These are specific conflicts of one species against another. Reasons are unimportant. Reapers don't wipe out organic life because they fear that organics can wipe all life in the universe. Though they have evidence that organics are capable and willing. All the inter-species wars, etc. No. They are focused specifically on Synthetics. So that nano-conflict between Geth and Quarians is not what they are trying to prevent. Inter-species wars are inevitable and not threatening the life in the universe. No matter what the species are. Organic or Synthetic.

That is the point of the cycle to stop each other from wiping each other out and taking everyone with them. The Reapers aren't focused just on synthetic life but on all life and the conflict that always arises from the inherently different ways Organics and Synthetics approach the same things. It is that difference of views that always leads to a clash between the two even if one group manages a peace for a certain period of time. The conflict between the Geth and Quarians is exactly what they are trying to prevent. Imagine what the current cycle would have looked like if the Citadel actually helped the Migrant fleet out and had a full fledged war upon the geth?

Micro or Macro the conflict is the same. A small scale conflict can easily be a large scale conflict.

3. AI mechs on Citadel - is not Synthetics vs Organic. It's Organics vs Synthetics. Mostly racism that is inevitable - AI is kinda new and AI Mechs were slaves with no rights. Replace C-Sec officers with White Americans and AI Mechs with Black Slaves and imagine it's year 1750. What's different? Nothing. Time would've sorted that thing in a couple of decades (after all ME is in the future - so not that backwards in terms of interracial interaction) and AI would've been considered just another kind of species. Those mechs also weren't out to destroy all organic life in the Universe. Strangely enough they were peaceful and didn't even resist, physically that is.

Organics vs Synthetics or Synthetics vs Organics is the same exact thing. That racism that you say is inevitable is exactly the type of thing the Cycle was created to stop. If it wasn't the ogranics being racist towards synthetics it was synthetics being racist towards organics. It is that fundamental difference between the two life forms that always lead to the conflict.

The Cycle didn't care that some groups happened to be peaceful, because there will always be a group that doesn't react peacefully. The Mechs on the Citadel reacted in peace. In the same exact situation the Geth acted with Violence.

4. There's not a single Synthetic species in MEU that is out to destroy all organic life. All of them tried to coexist. Some organics (yes, some, because in MEU there are organics who do not feel prejudice towards Synthetics and treat them as another form of life) are racist towards Synthetics - but that comes with the fact that Organics created Synthetics. "What? My toaster's got what now? Rights?!". Racism is CURABLE. No, not by Reapers. Clearly Starchild should know that.

The Zha'til. Also we know there were Synthetics that acted hostile towards organic life because it is stated to be so by the Catalyst when explaining about the cycle. And by the Leviathans. Just because we don't see detailed information about the conflicts doesn't mean they don't exist from a lore standpoint. Just as some organics have no ill will towards synthetics the same exists for synthetics that have an ill will towards organics.

Besides the Heretic geth clearly had it out for all organics so they are at the very least a single Synthetic species. Unless of course you add another conditional to what qualifies towards hostile synthetics.

It's pretty clear that Reapers got it asswards. They should have just wiped all organic life and help synthetics to fill the niche. Starchild wasn't preventing Synthetics vs Organics conflict. It was preventing the creation of Synthetics, who are in every way better than organics, peaceful and kind, also smarter and stuff. Leviathans and therefore Starchild were just JELLY.

The Catalyst didn't prevent the creation of Synthetics. And it is clear that the Catalyst isn't jealous since it things the best solution is a hybrid that combines both synthetics and organics together. And not simply one that creates only synthetics. The Catalyst was created to find a way to stop the inherent differences that eventually always lead to hostility between organics and synthetics. It wasn't created to prefer one over the other because then the cycle wouldn't exist.

[CrossNgen]

I can second that, and add how SCARY it is to find they are average Joes as many of us.
Quite opposite of Bioware of today, were incompetent stuck up fails think they are holier than everyone.

I think you've just described yourself.

[Elim Garak]

It still represents the conflict of Organics kill synthetics.

Well, I, at least, tried.

I really don't care if you prefer to belief in bs. Doesn't affect me.

[rhorle]

Well, I, at least, tried. I really don't care if you prefer to belief in bs. Doesn't affect me.

How is it BS? You yourself even stated that the Geth and Quarian conflict was Organics vs Synthetics on a nano scale. Why does it only support Organics vs Synthetics as a over all theme for the game when done on a scale other then nano? Even if every Organic Vs Synthetic or Synthetic vs Organic conflict was all nano scale it can add up. Microscopic cracks in a damn can cause it to crumble, just as the galaxy could crumble and descend into chaos.

Also nano scale conflicts over a billion years can indicate a pattern. A pattern the Leviathans saw and thought they could solve. After all what is a master to do if all of its slaves kill each other just by being themselves?

[Elim Garak]

How is it BS?

I had explained.

[Very Tired]

Anyone know what this guy is using to view Tali from a different angle during the cut scene? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG0dR5KwNKU

Seems like it could be fun to watch cut scenes from different angles.

[rhorle]

Well, I, at least, tried.

I really don't care if you prefer to belief in bs. Doesn't affect me.

So why is it that the nano conflict that reflects a Organics vs Synthetics that started by a Synthetic vs Organics conflict isn't what they are trying to stop, when that is exactly what they are trying to stop?

[Nerraw]

Did you know that Kolyat's voice actor also voiced Kael'thas?

[Confined]

Drells' voice gets an after effect that makes it quite hard to recognize the voice actor though .

[Nazrark]

Did you know that Kolyat's voice actor also voiced Kael'thas?

Chris Metzan?

[Glorious Leader]

You don't have to agree with the leviathans or the reapers philosophy and you may completely disagree with their execution (it is indeed horrible flawed) but their position is not without merit basically.

[Deleted]

Keeping the lesser beings from wiping themselves out, yes, the leviathans did as proper rulers should.
But they couldnt know that their A.I Gestapo have such ruthless calculations that even saw them as part of the problem they created it to fix, and be so effective.
The leviathans were basically gods, and Starbrat amassed an army and cast them down from the heavens.

...
We are not gonna play as Starbrat in ME4, during the time it rebelled agains the leviathans right? Right?