U.S. Presidential race - Democrat Discussion

[Maharishi]

I wish Maharishi was around

Wish granted. D3 needs to get DL'd again. Blah.

Edit: I was trying to clarify my position mentally on the way home. I hate civil rights, because I hate orwelliandystopiaphobia, and it's difficult for me to reconcile the obvious morality of civil rights legislation with preventing the government from becoming too powerful.

[Catta]

You lucky SOB. I've still got my kid's music recital and 2 hours of work before I can go mindless.

You sound old... :P

[Deleted]

Diurdi, even after adjusting for factors your own study still finds a wage gap.

Yes, a miniscule one. And you can't assume that any gap is automatically sexism.

Also where's the 2007 version?

[Wells]

Yes, a miniscule one. And you can't assume that any gap is automatically sexism.

7% is not minuscule.

[oblivionx]

Yes, a miniscule one. And you can't assume that any gap is automatically sexism.

Oh, I'm pretty sure he can and will.

War on women and all.

[eriseis]

Wish granted. D3 needs to get DL'd again. Blah.

Edit: I was trying to clarify my position mentally on the way home. I hate civil rights, because I hate orwelliandystopiaphobia, and it's difficult for me to reconcile the obvious morality of civil rights legislation with preventing the government from becoming too powerful.

Hate is a strong word.

[Maharishi]

Hate is a strong word.

Loath? Abhorr perhaps?

I mean I hate it because it forces me to evaluate gaps in my world view.

[Catta]

I am, in MMO-C years.

I'm 37, but with most of the crowd here, I might as well be 77, haha.

oh my... almost twice my age...

[Deleted]

7% is not minuscule.

5-7%, and in 2005. It's miniscule, and to take any policy action based on that is political pandering and not problem solving.

[Wells]

Things like equal pay laws aren't about the government snooping over business's shoulders. Its about giving employees recourse when they're unfairly discriminated against, which we can all agree, with the probable exception of Diurdi, is something we want them to have.

Now if the government was pouring over employer's payrolls to seek out instances of discrimination your concerns might seem more reasonable.

---------- Post added 2012-05-15 at 09:33 PM ----------

5-7%, and in 2005. It's miniscule, and to take any policy action based on that is political pandering and not problem solving.

So if you found out your pay checks were 5-7% lower than they should be you would find that minuscule change? hardly one worth caring about?

I know you hate the p-word but when the shoe fits.

And the murder rate is lower than that. Guess its pandering to pursue murder protections. Or shit, if you want less hyperbole I guess we should never recall drugs ever.

[starlord]

5-7%, and in 2005. It's miniscule, and to take any policy action based on that is political pandering and not problem solving.

i thought we were talking about simply not removing the already in place policy that keeps it small.

[Wells]

i thought we were talking about simply not removing the already in place policy that keeps it small.

No you see 5-7% is small therefor if you're discriminated against you shouldn't have legal recourse.

Flawless logic.

[Stanton Biston]

You know, at some point we're going to really hit that wall between politics and religion pretty hard, and we're going to have to talk around a lot of the issues.

Anyways, my bet as to the source of the actual war on women from within the GOP is that the foundations of the group is inherently patriarchal. Everything the GOP seeks to control is something that empowers them to be able to make choices for themselves. Gotta keep the women, the minorities and the poor down. Limit competition and all.

It's always amazed me that as much as all the capitalists talk about competition, no one ever talks about companies doing things to prevent competition. And no one ever talks about taking that same concept of anti-competition and applying it to social issues.

[eriseis]

You know, at some point we're going to really hit that wall between politics and religion pretty hard, and we're going to have to talk around a lot of the issues.

Anyways, my bet as to the source of the actual war on women from within the GOP is that the foundations of the group is inherently patriarchal. Everything the GOP seeks to control is something that empowers them to be able to make choices for themselves. Gotta keep the women, the minorities and the poor down. Limit competition and all.

It's always amazed me that as much as all the capitalists talk about competition, no one ever talks about companies doing things to prevent competition. And no one ever talks about taking that same concept of anti-competition and applying it to social issues.

Like patent trolling? Phack, you can't get anyone to invest nowadays unless you can prove you have every freaking patent in the universe.

[Deleted]

So if you found out your pay checks were 5-7% lower than they should be you would find that minuscule change? hardly one worth caring about?
I know you hate the p-word but when the shoe fits.
And the murder rate is lower than that. Guess its pandering to pursue murder protections. Or shit, if you want less hyperbole I guess we should never recall drugs ever.

Again, you assume that it must be sexism. It may be a variety of factors, even mentioned in the report, that cause this small remaining gap.

Things like equal pay laws aren't about the government snooping over business's shoulders.

The problem is that the employer has to prove that he is not unfairly discriminating. Which goes against the very nature of how law should be. It also makes a judge who does not know the business, the person who decides what the value of a persons work is etc. The concept of equal pay for equal work is fundamentally flawed.

Its about giving employees recourse when they're unfairly discriminated against, which we can all agree, with the probable exception of Diurdi, is something we want them to have.

No, it's like having a small margin of unexplainable deaths, and instead of further investigating what the cause of these deaths may be, you just decide one cause because it fits your agenda.

[mistuhbull]

Wish granted. D3 needs to get DL'd again. Blah.

Edit: I was trying to clarify my position mentally on the way home. I hate civil rights, because I hate orwelliandystopiaphobia, and it's difficult for me to reconcile the obvious morality of civil rights legislation with preventing the government from becoming too powerful.

Servers are down anyways. at least the NA servers

[starlord]

No you see 5-7% is small therefor if you're discriminated against you shouldn't have legal recourse.

Flawless logic.

lol, those who make up the 5-7% gap are the ones being discriminated against.

[Deleted]

No you see 5-7% is small therefor if you're discriminated against you shouldn't have legal recourse.
Flawless logic.

It was actually you and marahisi (or whatever his name is) that started making this connection between the two.

You claimed equal pay laws are a women's issue in this day and age, as if men could not be discriminated against on the workplace, just because on average they have a little higher pay.

[Wells]

Again, you assume that it must be sexism. It may be a variety of factors, even mentioned in the report, that cause this small remaining gap.

I'm assuming that given all other factors already accounted for that the remaining unexplained gap has to be non economic incentives, or in other words, employer bias.

The problem is that the employer has to prove that he is not unfairly discriminating.

And the employer has to show that she's being discriminated against, not just making less money. At that point if she can do that then yes the employer has to defend himself. Working as intended.

The judge doesn't need to know how the business works. Your understanding of the law here is severely lacking. Employee finds out she is making less and has evidence of direct sexism on the part of the employer (memos, that sort of thing). It then goes to court. The employer can then say "this person is paid this lesser wage because they're a worse employee, see this evaluation". At no point does what the company do become itself relevant.

Again, these laws are about giving people who are discriminated against a chance to air their grievances in court. How the fuck someone could think that's a bad thing is beyond me.

---------- Post added 2012-05-15 at 09:47 PM ----------

You claimed equal pay laws are a women's issue in this day and age, as if men could not be discriminated against on the workplace, just because on average they have a little higher pay.

I claim its a women's equality issue, because shocker, women are more commonly the victims of work place discrimination.

[starlord]

No, it's like having a small margin of unexplainable deaths, and instead of further investigating what the cause of these deaths may be, you just decide one cause because it fits your agenda.

not quite... the gap was already known to be based on gender.